Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhatIsItNow. Show WhatIsItNow's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    Maybe AZ (and other states) should sue the Federal Government for failing to enforce it's laws.. along with appropriate compensation. Those costs would be astronomical... health care, courts, prisons, welfare, food programs, translators, more prisons. More generally, what recourse does a state have when it is NOT being protecting by an invading army?
    Posted by ItsATravesty


    Well it's generally either very hard or impossible to sue the government for failing to enforce it's own regulation.  Interesting question though.  I'd defer to someone who deals with that.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    Reuben- what is the difference between the AZ law and what RI is doing? Both only check status after another law has been broken, right? And why are the feds going after AZ for stepping on the fed policy of immigration, and ignore cities that have stepped on fed policies by creating sanctuary cities? Aren't they both the same as far as supremacy is concerned? I am also curious into your thoughts on the New Black Panther case?  I am curious because you are a lawyer.  Have you heard of such a thing happening in the past?  And what are your thoughts on a black guy carry a billy club yelling out racial slurs about whites at a polling station. And thanks in advance for your response. 
    Posted by whatnow3


    The Arizona law makes it a state crime to be an illegal and allows police to stop and search to ascertain that status.  That's quite different than Rhode Island and any other state.  Sanctuary cities don't really amount to much as the authorities don't stop the Feds from doing their job.  And no one should be allowed to intimidate voters at a polling station: it violates both state and federal laws.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    In Arizona the police will be arresting illegals as trespassers and conducting searches to uncover that status.   Will be? As in it hasn't happened yet? So how far into the future does your crystal ball see?
    Posted by hawkeye01


    The law has not gone into effect yet.  Try to keep up with the news.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities??? : Really? 2 car accidents on I-95 are state crimes? They then ask for ID and if none is present, to the pokey they go! EXACTLY like what is written in the AZ law! Imagine THAT? You haven't read the law Reuben!
    Posted by brat13


    Wrong.  The Arizona law makes it a state crime to be an illegal. That is a KEY distinction.  The state authorities can investigate state crimes (like trespassing) or other non-criminal issues and seek to ascertain your status.  No id. and into jail you go as a suspected illegal.   Of course there is no law that requires citizens to carry identification at all times.  Ooops.  VERY different from Rhode Island where they uncover your status indirectly while investigating other matters and turn you over to the Feds and their legal process.
     
  5. This post has been removed.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from tiresias. Show tiresias's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    Obama really isn't suing AZ for enforcing immigration laws.  The headline is pretty misleading.  The Department of Justice is challenging the constitutionality of pending AZ law on the grounds that it violates the Supremacy of the laws of the Federal Govt.  If you think SB 1070 is totally legit and constitutional, then you really shouldn't be too worried about it being overturned, especially considering our conservative activist Supreme Court.  With all these newfound Constitution nuts out there, I'd think they'd be happy to subject a new controversial State law to an examination as to whether it violates our Constitution.  Or is it only ok to cite the Constitution when you think it favors your argument?

    One of the problems with the law is that Arizona is determining its own immigration policy.  Individual states shouldn't be setting their own immigration policies, just like these states shouldn't be determining their own foreign policies.  If the federal govt. is failing its duties in immigration enforcement, then the changes need to be made on that level and it's not the prerogative of the states to assume those duties.  As a sidenote many Arizona law enforcement officials are opposed to the law because of the burden it will place on them.  That's a practical problem.  And that's not even going into how the law makes no attempt to define what an illegal looks like and how police officers should judge what an illegal looks like.  It's explicitly forbidden to use race or skin color in the law but those are the standard means to id an illegal.


    All you supporters of SB1070 are so convinced it's legal and constitutional, so you really shouldn't have a problem with it being tested in court.  I'd bet the law doesn't last, and the only hesitation I'd have is there's no predicting what this activist right-wing Supreme Court will do.  Citizens United, what a joke!  Hopefully that will be overturned in the future by a more rational Court.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities??? : Trespassing is not a crime? I suppose it is a civil offense, not a criminal one. Does that make a difference as to whether or not local police can detain someone and conduct a search based on probable cause?
    Posted by Newtster


    An awkward sentence.  Trespassing is a crime and status comes up directly in that context.  It can come up indirectly in lots of non-criminal contexts too (asking for identification from a passenger in a car, or a witness): no id. and suddenly there is an immigration investigation. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities??? : The law has not gone into effect yet.  Try to keep up with the news.
    Posted by Reubenhop


    Um yeah....that was kind of my point. Who isn't keeping up?

    See, you wrote:
    "In Arizona the police will be arresting illegals as trespassers and conducting searches to uncover that status."

    The law hasn't gone into effect yet and you're already assuming what will happen. Hence why I wrote what I wrote. Again, try to keep up.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobinVa. Show BobinVa's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    "Sanctuary cities don't really amount to much as the authorities don't stop the Feds from doing their job"

    Totally wrong, reuben.

    When U.S. cities declare themselves to be "sanctuaries" for illegal aliens, they act outside the law, and by their actions could be charged with a felony for each violation of federal law by "concealing, harboring, or sheltering illegal aliens" (8 U.S. Code, sections 1324 and 1325; Immigration and Naturalization Act sections 274 and 275).

    Sanctuary cities demonstrate a complete contempt for the laws of the United States.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from brat13. Show brat13's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities??? : The Arizona law makes it a state crime to be an illegal and allows police to stop and search to ascertain that status.  That's quite different than Rhode Island and any other state.  Sanctuary cities don't really amount to much as the authorities don't stop the Feds from doing their job.  And no one should be allowed to intimidate voters at a polling station: it violates both state and federal laws.
    Posted by Reubenhop

    Wrong again Reuben. The Arizona law AND the process in Rhode Island are identical. The Arizona law simply allows law enforcement to take the next step AFTER stopping for a primary moving violation. As with RI it is a secondary violation in AZ and cannot be the primary reason for the stop.
    Look at the article on the RI process in the Globe. State trooper or ANY other law enforcement officer stops a vehicle for a primary moving violation. They ask for license and registration as they are legally bound to do for ALL drivers. When the drivers says they don't have their license, as is REQUIRED in EVERY municipality, the officer checks the database for a valid license of the name given. If they find that valid license, they write up a ticket for the moving violation, AND a ticket for not having their license on them while operating a vehicle. The drivers can then bring said valid license to the police department to prove they have the license and the second ticket will be waived.
    If found to be illegal, they arrest and held for ICE. Same as AZ!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from carolbost. Show carolbost's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    Yes,it's about time Mr.President and sue these s.o.b.'s with ugly brewer in tow!America stands for compassion in the highest form of dignity and virtues!
    Conservatives stupid?this is an understatemnet!they are brainless loonies.Look at that quitter from wassila?evil beck,tsunami limbaugh,bad manners joe wilson!rejecting stimulus money but behind closed doors begging for it!
    We should all go out there same as we voted massively for this intellectual classy President Obama and boot all these republican imbeciel moron party out of office with the tea garbage in TOW..
    The nazi immigration law in AZ should be aborted and brewer should go to exile!what an ugly woman..That's not what our country stands for.America the beautiful in the most honorable way!not in the hitler way!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    Yes,it's about time Mr.President and sue these s.o.b.'s with ugly brewer in tow!America stands for compassion in the highest form of dignity and virtues! Conservatives stupid?this is an understatemnet!they are brainless loonies.Look at that quitter from wassila?evil beck,tsunami limbaugh,bad manners joe wilson!rejecting stimulus money but behind closed doors begging for it! We should all go out there same as we voted massively for this intellectual classy President Obama and boot all these republican imbeciel moron party out of office with the tea garbage in TOW.. The nazi immigration law in AZ should be aborted and brewer should go to exile!what an ugly woman..That's not what our country stands for.America the beautiful in the most honorable way!not in the hitler way!
    Posted by carolbost


    I agree. We should award criminal activity. That's what this country is all about. Break the law? No problem. Do whatever you like. Who cares that there are thousands and thousands of people who are trying to get into the country the LEGAL way. Screw them. Let's reward those who came into the country ILLEGALLY. America...what a great country!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from brat13. Show brat13's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities??? : Wrong.  The Arizona law makes it a state crime to be an illegal. That is a KEY distinction.  The state authorities can investigate state crimes (like trespassing) or other non-criminal issues and seek to ascertain your status.  No id. and into jail you go as a suspected illegal.   Of course there is no law that requires citizens to carry identification at all times.  Ooops.  VERY different from Rhode Island where they uncover your status indirectly while investigating other matters and turn you over to the Feds and their legal process.
    Posted by Reubenhop

    Wrong! In AZ it is a secondary offense. SAME as RI. In neither case can a law enforcement officer stop you for suspicion of being illegal. In BOTH cases while investigating a primary offense the officer CAN ascertain your legal status. When did speeding, traffic accidents, illegal U-Turn become federal laws? They are state laws (and many times local) and that is when RI police can request a license or ID.

    One question - What "other matters" can the RI police be investigating to ascertain your legal status? Trespassing? Speeding? Illegal U-Turn? Running a red light? Failure to come to a complete stop at a stop sign? Stop me when i get to the Federal crimes and out of the state or local jurisdiction.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from brat13. Show brat13's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    Obama really isn't suing AZ for enforcing immigration laws.  The headline is pretty misleading.  The Department of Justice is challenging the constitutionality of pending AZ law on the grounds that it violates the Supremacy of the laws of the Federal Govt.  If you think SB 1070 is totally legit and constitutional, then you really shouldn't be too worried about it being overturned, especially considering our conservative activist Supreme Court.  With all these newfound Constitution nuts out there, I'd think they'd be happy to subject a new controversial State law to an examination as to whether it violates our Constitution.  Or is it only ok to cite the Constitution when you think it favors your argument? One of the problems with the law is that Arizona is determining its own immigration policy.  Individual states shouldn't be setting their own immigration policies, just like these states shouldn't be determining their own foreign policies.  If the federal govt. is failing its duties in immigration enforcement, then the changes need to be made on that level and it's not the prerogative of the states to assume those duties.  As a sidenote many Arizona law enforcement officials are opposed to the law because of the burden it will place on them.  That's a practical problem.  And that's not even going into how the law makes no attempt to define what an illegal looks like and how police officers should judge what an illegal looks like.  It's explicitly forbidden to use race or skin color in the law but those are the standard means to id an illegal. All you supporters of SB1070 are so convinced it's legal and constitutional, so you really shouldn't have a problem with it being tested in court.  I'd bet the law doesn't last, and the only hesitation I'd have is there's no predicting what this activist right-wing Supreme Court will do.  Citizens United, what a joke!  Hopefully that will be overturned in the future by a more rational Court.
    Posted by tiresias

    You have not been following the threads here. We WANT this challenge! It will show it is perfectly legal for ANY state to make a law enhancing the federal law as this one does.  There are many Federal laws on the books that have complimentary state laws. Murder being one of them. As long as this law doesn't say "the federal government CAN'T arrest and deport Arizona Illegal Immigrants" it is Constitutional.
    There is no provision for "what an illegal looks like" because THAT would be un-Constitutional. This laws goes out of it's way to ensure the rights of US Citizens are protected. Here it is as plainly as I can make it...

    1. It is illegal in AZ (and many other states) to posses a drivers license if you are not a citizen of the US and state of Arizona.
    2. It is illegal in Arizona (and many other states) to drive a vehicle without a valid license on your person.
    3. If you are stopped for any primary traffic violation (i.e. speeding, running a red light etc.) you will be asked to produce a valid drivers license. If you don't have one, the officer will ask for your name and date of birth. He will then look you up in the database and check your picture on your valid license with your appearance. If they match, he will issue you a citation for the primary violation AND give you a ticket for not having your license on you when stopped. If you produce said license to the officer or police department the second ticket is ripped up.
    If you have no license and have been found to be in Arizona illegally, you are arrested and the feds are called.
    That is BS that "many" Arizona police are opposed. To the contrary "most" are in agreement.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ItsATravesty. Show ItsATravesty's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    Yes,it's about time Mr.President and sue these s.o.b.'s with ugly brewer in tow!America stands for compassion in the highest form of dignity and virtues! Conservatives stupid?this is an understatemnet!they are brainless loonies.Look at that quitter from wassila?evil beck,tsunami limbaugh,bad manners joe wilson!rejecting stimulus money but behind closed doors begging for it! We should all go out there same as we voted massively for this intellectual classy President Obama and boot all these republican imbeciel moron party out of office with the tea garbage in TOW.. The nazi immigration law in AZ should be aborted and brewer should go to exile!what an ugly woman..That's not what our country stands for.America the beautiful in the most honorable way!not in the hitler way!
    Posted by carolbost


    You go girl!! I love your 2nd grade perspective.  

    Why not remove all borders? .. except where the invading armys can sign up for free everything and being members of the socialist Democratic party. 

    Forget the deficeit.. lets tax the living crap out of anyone that still has a job and support the world.  Ignore all current federal immigration laws all at "I" da Bamas whim, infact lets just shutdown ICE and other agencys. Make it a crime to say anything about the swarms of invaders. 

    Looking forward to your next inspiring hate filled, ignorant and reality free rant. 

    I'm your biggest fan!!    
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ItsATravesty. Show ItsATravesty's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities??? : Reuben either A. Isn't really a lawyer or B. Is a Sotomayor type lawyer who believes "Social Justice" should trump civil and criminal justice and has been totally blinded by that ideology. I have friends who are lawyers and are "left" and none of them think the DoJ has a shot in a million in winning this case. They have actually read the AZ law and see nothing wrong with it legally. Their issues are more on the ideological "profiling" etc. side. They hate the law but admit it is Constitutionally legal.
    Posted by brat13

    I vote for B.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from brat13. Show brat13's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities??? : I vote for B.
    Posted by ItsATravesty

    I agree! It is amazing to me that normally grounded people can go so far off the reservation sometimes. I see the same on the right with gun laws. I don't understand it...
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from iamjustsayin. Show iamjustsayin's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    It's not that America hates immigrants.  It's not that America is racist.  It is that we are running out of money and families who barely make it while playing by the rules have to give away their own money in the form of taxes to fund programs to manage the amount of people who are trying to cheat their way through life.  Illegal immigrants are people who enter the country illegally, work hard to avoid being accountable, and benefit from taxpayer dollars.  Only taxpayers should benefit from taxpayer dollars. 
    All are welcome in our great country, just make sure you sign up to pay your dues just like the rest of us.  And keep speaking your native language but make sure you learn English and use it as the spoken currency. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobinVa. Show BobinVa's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    I have friends who are lawyers and are "left" and none of them think the DoJ has a shot in a million in winning this case. They have actually read the AZ law and see nothing wrong with it legally. Their issues are more on the ideological "profiling" etc. side. They hate the law but admit it is Constitutionally legal.
    Posted by brat13


    Those lawyers are intellectually honest, at least.
    It is quite possible a liberal activist judge will find the Arizona law unconstitutional....because liberal judges use their raw judicial power for political ends...the substance doesnt matter, only the result matters.
     
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    I'm so sick and tired of the "illegal immigrants take jobs" BS.  They take low, low paying unskilled labor jobs.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    I'm so sick and tired of the "illegal immigrants take jobs" BS.  They take low, low paying unskilled labor jobs.
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover


    Which were being done by who before illegals starting getting these jobs? The answer is LEGAL citizens. Or do you think toilets cleaned themselves in the past?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ItsATravesty. Show ItsATravesty's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    IF.. Mexico has joined the US in suing AZ.. and IF the suit fails..

    What's to stop either or both of the below..

    a.) Calls to ICE from AZ agencys simply go unanswered.
    b.) Mexico simply refuses to take them back.

    Net result is that AZ could be stuck with many (tens of) thousands in captivity (and the responsibility to support) for an extended period. 
    Mexicans planning to "visit" the US with this knowledge would flock across the border in AZ, exacerbating the situation. 

    Obama a uniter...?  Hardly.  
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ItsATravesty. Show ItsATravesty's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    I'm so sick and tired of the "illegal immigrants take jobs" BS.  They take low, low paying unskilled labor jobs.
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover


    ..because they have no skills and therefore nothing to bring to this culture.

    They also have thousands of support groups that teach them the ropes of getting on the dole. Maybe that's a skill?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhatIsItNow. Show WhatIsItNow's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    "I know a lawyer who agrees with me so clearly you're wrong"
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhatIsItNow. Show WhatIsItNow's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    It is amazing to me that people like CAROLBOST can actually function in society. It is clear based on her factless, irrational rant that she is incapable of grasping logic and the truth. And yet, our politicians are afraid of people like CUNTOLBOST and actually are pandering to her.  We should kick people like her out.  They are the ones who are bringing this country to its knees.  Of course, I am sure Carol is very comfortable on her knees. 
    Posted by whatnow3


    Mirror mirror on the wall
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share