Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from whatnow3. Show whatnow3's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    Reuben "dragged away"

    Are you serious?

    Nice inflammatory speech.  You are a piece of work.

    A license is proof of citizenship.  If you show a license as a citizen, end of story, no questions.

    If you are not a citizen, by law you have to carry your docs.

    So where is the issue? 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from WilliamTells. Show WilliamTells's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    Isn't it interesting that more news questions are asked, discussed in this section than in the entire Boston Globe? 

    If somebody broke into professor Gates house and the professor came home to find somebody in his home I guess the professor wouldn't call the police, but just hire the lawbreaker for less than minimum wage to do those things that the professor doesn't.  Well I don't understand liberalism - but that's what we're supposed to do right professor?  Isn't this don't ask dont tell? I thought liberals were against this policy?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from HUNKRANCHER. Show HUNKRANCHER's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    How does that make any sense? He sues AZ for supremacy, and the Feds having the right to determine policy, and yet, he ignores every city that set immigration policy by establishing sanctuary cities. Obama is insane, and this country is a joke.  No intelligent, thinking person would ever see this as being reasonable. Obama is doing nothing but pandering to hispanics for votes.  I cannot wait to capmaogn against Obama.  I am ashamed of my vote for him.   
    Posted by whatnow3

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from HUNKRANCHER. Show HUNKRANCHER's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    COUNTRIES ALL OVER THE WORLD ARE DUMPING THEIR WELFARE CLASSES ON US TO PAY FOR.  HOW STUPID CAN POLITICIANS GET TO PERMIT THIS? GET RID OF ALL THESE INCUMBENTS WHO SUPPORT OPEN BORDERS. IT IS COSTING US A FORTUNE. WE NEED TO REQUIRE A COLLEGE DEGREE OR A CERTIFICATE FROM A RECOGNIZED TECHNICAL INSTITUTE FOR ONE TO IMMIGRATE TO THE US. NOVEMBER CANNOT COME SOON ENOUGH.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from taxmeintooblivion. Show taxmeintooblivion's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    COUNTRIES ALL OVER THE WORLD ARE DUMPING THEIR WELFARE CLASSES ON US TO PAY FOR.  HOW STUPID CAN POLITICIANS GET TO PERMIT THIS? GET RID OF ALL THESE INCUMBENTS WHO SUPPORT OPEN BORDERS. IT IS COSTING US A FORTUNE. WE NEED TO REQUIRE A COLLEGE DEGREE OR A CERTIFICATE FROM A RECOGNIZED TECHNICAL INSTITUTE FOR ONE TO IMMIGRATE TO THE US. NOVEMBER CANNOT COME SOON ENOUGH.
    Posted by HUNKRANCHER


    True.

    It has become a class war. Exactly what the big dummy wanted.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    Reuben "dragged away" Are you serious? Nice inflammatory speech.  You are a piece of work. A license is proof of citizenship.  If you show a license as a citizen, end of story, no questions. If you are not a citizen, by law you have to carry your docs. So where is the issue? 
    Posted by whatnow3


    The issue is that you don't have to carry your license wherever you go and you generally don't have to show it to a police officer.  Hence you can get jammed up pretty easily as a suspected illegal trespasser while being quite innocent.  
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from taxmeintooblivion. Show taxmeintooblivion's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    Hmmm I always carry identification. 
    If asked I always provide ID to an officer of the law.
    Just the right thing to do. Maybe it's a 'cultural' difference....
      
    Could be problem for those that don't have any or don't belong though.  
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from whatnow3. Show whatnow3's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    Reuben- questions can be asked to verify status.  Do you know your social?  How about address? 

    You are talking about very few citizens who walk around without a license, and even then, it is easily addressed. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities??? : The issue is that you don't have to carry your license wherever you go and you generally don't have to show it to a police officer.  Hence you can get jammed up pretty easily as a suspected illegal trespasser while being quite innocent.  
    Posted by Reubenhop



    In theory, you are right.  but, see how far you get with the police by refusing to show ID. 

    There is a potential issue with Americans of Mexican decent that have not assimilated into our society, might not speak the common tongue, etc.  But, I ask you:  Why would someone come here/be here for all the benefits and not want to assimilate into our society?  Isn't that "normal" behavior?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities??? : In theory, you are right.  but, see how far you get with the police by refusing to show ID.  There is a potential issue with Americans of Mexican decent that have not assimilated into our society, might not speak the common tongue, etc.  But, I ask you:  Why would someone come here/be here for all the benefits and not want to assimilate into our society?  Isn't that "normal" behavior?
    Posted by skeeter20


    We have a broad definition of "normal" behavior.  Unfortunately, people in authority (especially cops) have a less broad definition.  To illustrate, the following was the beginning of a police report from a white, suburban, bedroom community on the North Shore:  "Saw a black man driving a new red car.  Pulled him over."  The racism and violation of rights in those sentences is blatant.  Cops are much more clever than that generally.  But, make no mistake, they jam up (legally and illegally) people that they do not consider "normal".  To them those are the kinds of people that commit crimes.  But most of those people are quite innocent.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from whatnow3. Show whatnow3's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    Reuben it is clear your prolem is with racist police officers, not the law.

    And as you know potential abuse isn't grounds to say a law is wrong. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from JaySev2010. Show JaySev2010's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    As someone who deals with the US immigration system often, I can say it is pretty terrible and inhumane as is. This law is going to make things worse.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from whatnow3. Show whatnow3's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    Jaysev- I am curious to know your experience.  I have zero experience with our immigration laws, and would be interested in hearing your point of view. 

    In what role do you interact with the laws?  What is wrong with it.

    Thanks. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from JaySev2010. Show JaySev2010's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    Jaysev- I am curious to know your experience.  I have zero experience with our immigration laws, and would be interested in hearing your point of view.  In what role do you interact with the laws?  What is wrong with it. Thanks. 
    Posted by whatnow3


    I am more than happy to provide that. Let me start by saying, I would be way more on board with laws like the Arizona one, if the immigration system wasn't so bad already. My experience is mainly with my wife, who was not born in America. The problem is:

    -the system is basically heartless and overly pedantic about paperwork that is nearly impossible to fill out without a lawyers' help.

    -the system is too slow and makes it way to hard to bring in family members. My wife wanted to bring her family over, but she can't. The country she is from doesn't get the special treatment that European Countries get. The government assumes her family is at risk of overstaying visas, so getting them in here is something we haven't been able to do for several years (and her brother is dying by the way----no special consideration for that).

    -It is almost impossible to get into the US if you are from a poor country. The reason people come here illegally is getting a visa to the US, is like winning the lottery (again if you are from a poor country).

    -My wife has been treated poorly at every stage in the process. From the times she re-enters the country, to the times she has gone in for interviews to the times we call up with paper work questions. They don't treat her like a person.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from whatnow3. Show whatnow3's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    Thats too bad.

    It is clear I think to everyone that we need to up the allowable legal entries into the US. 

    Clearly we need to make it an easier process. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from JaySev2010. Show JaySev2010's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    Thats too bad. It is clear I think to everyone that we need to up the allowable legal entries into the US.  Clearly we need to make it an easier process. 
    Posted by whatnow3


    If that were easier I think you would see far less resistance to reforms. Especially in cases like mine. As a citizen who married an immigant, why not just make the green card or even citenzship automatic. Why force people like me to be separated from my own wife for months while waiting for paper work. Sure there are going to be cases of people who do it for the green card. But it is so hard to do on a massive scale (in each instance it requires the work of one american to bring in just one immigrant), and the person doing it is wasting three years of his or her life married to that person. In my case, it was nothing like this anyways. We are trying to build a life together and the government makes something as simple as having her family over for important events like births, immensely difficult. Actually up to this point they've made it impossible.

    To bring in a family member from overseas, you need to demonstrate you have enough money in the bank to take care of that person. The problem is, I, like lots of people, don't have the money in the bank. I don't have my expenses hoarded up in the bank for the next 3-6 months of time. We are living paycheck to paycheck, and our intention is to live more cheaply when her family stays with us. But government forms don't see that. They can only see if you have the amount that qaulifies you. This is why I can sympathize with the grandmother who comes here illegally to see her children (wouldn't you do the same if you grandchildren were in another country you couldn't enter legally?) It is why I can sympathize with many illegals, because I understad how frustrating the process is, and how it doesn't see people and situations. Its just about black and white regulations that make little to no sense, and often seem more about nickle and diming people that giving them a chance to experience the American dream.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhatIsItNow. Show WhatIsItNow's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    The heck with all the legal-eze arguments.  Progressives always try to over complicate things.
    Posted by skeeter20


    Proud of your ignorance? 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    Reuben it is clear your prolem is with racist police officers, not the law. And as you know potential abuse isn't grounds to say a law is wrong. 
    Posted by whatnow3


    Giving the police more authority to stretch the law and intefere with individuals and their rights goes against my libertarian sensibilities.  The law is a problem in this regard.  But the main problem is the jurisdictional issues.  Immigration is a Federal matter: leave it to the Feds and their expertise and training.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from JaySev2010. Show JaySev2010's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities??? : Giving the police more authority to stretch the law and intefere with individuals and their rights goes against my libertarian sensibilities.  The law is a problem in this regard.  But the main problem is the jurisdictional issues.  Immigration is a Federal matter: leave it to the Feds and their expertise and training.
    Posted by Reubenhop


    The problem with that is it is like saying drugs are a federal matter. States can still pass their own laws regarding drugs....why massachusetts just did that with Marijuana, and I for one am glad about it. It isn't that I disagree with you about the core issue of the law being a problem. But I think we are getting into bad territory when we make a weak argument about federal jurisdiction, to fight a law we oppose because we really think the federal laws need to be more lenient.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities??? : The problem with that is it is like saying drugs are a federal matter. States can still pass their own laws regarding drugs....why massachusetts just did that with Marijuana, and I for one am glad about it. It isn't that I disagree with you about the core issue of the law being a problem. But I think we are getting into bad territory when we make a weak argument about federal jurisdiction, to fight a law we oppose because we really think the federal laws need to be more lenient.
    Posted by JaySev2010


    No, it is important to have clearly distinguished jurisdictional boundaries.  The Feds should not legislate on the issue of marriage and the states should not legislate on immigration issues.  The law is problematic on individual liberties as well, but that is a separate matter as the Constiutional protection apply to both types of government.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Scraptus. Show Scraptus's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???


    Bush didn't defend the borders, Obama isn't defending the borders.  One side is arguing about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION the other side is just arguing about IMMIGRATION... circles, circles, circles.. no wonder we get nowhere.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities??? : The issue is that you don't have to carry your license wherever you go and you generally don't have to show it to a police officer.  Hence you can get jammed up pretty easily as a suspected illegal trespasser while being quite innocent.  
    Posted by Reubenhop


    Hmmmm...... apparently this libbie just doesn't know when to just let go. It's obvious that you have no ability to undestand that the law doesn't allow or provide for any law enforecement official to randomly stop someone, anyone, JUST to ask them to produce proof of legal residency. If you see that anywhere in the 10 page AZ law, then put down the crack pipe. AZ is going out of it's way to ensure that this law is enforced when a crime is investigated and the law enfocement rep has reasonal suspicion and probable cause. If the detained individual doesn't have prrof of legal residency on them, then they get taken "downtown" until such proof can be produced. If they don't have a license or ID card of any kind, then they will probably have a record of previous crime (fingerprints, pics, etc). No law, local, state, or fed, calls for people to be be arrested JUST because they don't have an ID. They will be held until they can prove legal residence.

    Other factors go ino this determination of legal residency, like normal human habits and traits. Not having a basic knowdledge and use of English is cause for doubt. Wearing 3 layers of clothing in July is another. Not maintaining eye contact with law enforcement and not keeping a story straight to officers is another cause. But, we all know how you libbies will always turn that one aroiund too. 

    As I said before, anytime you want 'em, you can have 'em. ALl ya have to do is publish your home address and phone number, along with your social security, credit card, and PIN numbers. AFter all, stealing an idenity is a victimless crime, right? No one gets hurt! You should have no problems with this. You just prove my pooint that you have no clue as to what's happening or the damage being done to AZ's economy. But, I always did oike a hypocrital libbie: stand up for 'em, then totally reject "helping" them out personally.

    Take another hit from the bong, Zippy.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities??? : If that were easier I think you would see far less resistance to reforms. Especially in cases like mine. As a citizen who married an immigant, why not just make the green card or even citenzship automatic. Why force people like me to be separated from my own wife for months while waiting for paper work. Sure there are going to be cases of people who do it for the green card. But it is so hard to do on a massive scale (in each instance it requires the work of one american to bring in just one immigrant), and the person doing it is wasting three years of his or her life married to that person. In my case, it was nothing like this anyways. We are trying to build a life together and the government makes something as simple as having her family over for important events like births, immensely difficult. Actually up to this point they've made it impossible. To bring in a family member from overseas, you need to demonstrate you have enough money in the bank to take care of that person. The problem is, I, like lots of people, don't have the money in the bank. I don't have my expenses hoarded up in the bank for the next 3-6 months of time. We are living paycheck to paycheck, and our intention is to live more cheaply when her family stays with us. But government forms don't see that. They can only see if you have the amount that qaulifies you. This is why I can sympathize with the grandmother who comes here illegally to see her children (wouldn't you do the same if you grandchildren were in another country you couldn't enter legally?) It is why I can sympathize with many illegals, because I understad how frustrating the process is, and how it doesn't see people and situations. Its just about black and white regulations that make little to no sense, and often seem more about nickle and diming people that giving them a chance to experience the American dream.
    Posted by JaySev2010


    My first question is simple: how much can yiu cram into a 5 gallon bucket? Believe it or not, as libbies do, not EVERYONE in the world can or needs to become a US citizen. That's why there are 'quotas". Look at the problems we have taking of our own during tough economic times. Imagine what it would be like and the huge drain it would be on the economy to have tens of millins more unproductive people living here. Want a good picture of the possibility? Look at India and China. 

    Secondly, you made the choice to marry an immigrant. Should have checked the laws first. If you did, and still got married, well, it's your responsibility not ours, the tax payers. Why don't you just go oive in her country? I'll bet their immigration laws will allow you to just come and go as you please, no visa, or passport required. Stay where you want, for as long as you want, doing whatever you want. But, you'll be TOGETHER. No need to check in at any time with her country's govt, is there. Open Borders is what it's all about, right? The US border works both ways, ya know.

    Can't your spouse's family get passports for the visits? Don't need more than that for a visit. Unless....... Naw! Staying here for longer than the birthday visit isn't your real gripe, is it?  Naw!

    You knew what you were getting into when you married them... deal with it instead of crying about it and trying to make it a US immigration issue. It's YOU decision! Buck up!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from JaySev2010. Show JaySev2010's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities??? : My first question is simple: how much can yiu cram into a 5 gallon bucket? Believe it or not, as libbies do, not EVERYONE in the world can or needs to become a US citizen. That's why there are 'quotas". Look at the problems we have taking of our own during tough economic times. Imagine what it would be like and the huge drain it would be on the economy to have tens of millins more unproductive people living here. Want a good picture of the possibility? Look at India and China.  Secondly, you made the choice to marry an immigrant. Should have checked the laws first. If you did, and still got married, well, it's your responsibility not ours, the tax payers. Why don't you just go oive in her country? I'll bet their immigration laws will allow you to just come and go as you please, no visa, or passport required. Stay where you want, for as long as you want, doing whatever you want. But, you'll be TOGETHER. No need to check in at any time with her country's govt, is there. Open Borders is what it's all about, right? The US border works both ways, ya know. Can't your spouse's family get passports for the visits? Don't need more than that for a visit. Unless....... Naw! Staying here for longer than the birthday visit isn't your real gripe, is it?  Naw! You knew what you were getting into when you married them... deal with it instead of crying about it and trying to make it a US immigration issue. It's YOU decision! Buck up!
    Posted by AZPAT


    Fuc! you. Fuc! you pal. You are just an as!-hole.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from JaySev2010. Show JaySev2010's posts

    Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???

    In Response to Re: Obama sues Az for enforcing immigration laws, but refuses to sue states that set up sanctuary cities???:
    Can't your spouse's family get passports for the visits? Don't need more than that for a visit. Unless....... Naw! Staying here for longer than the birthday visit isn't your real gripe, is it?  Naw! You knew what you were getting into when you married them... deal with it instead of crying about it and trying to make it a US immigration issue. It's YOU decision! Buck up!
    Posted by AZPAT


    You don't know what you are talking about. Coming to visit the US doesn't just require a passport, they need a visa to get in...and that is actually very hard to do. As I said, without a minimum amount of cash in the bank, they won't even look at the mother or brothers' application. And the brother is quite ill, which actually is a strike against him in the application process. So yes, all I want is for the family to come here for like a week or two and I am telling you, that can't be done just with a passport alone. The US has very strict immigration rules (for a reason). I don't mind there being a process, but it shouldn't be hard for a 70 year old grandmother and brother in-law to get a visa just to visit some grandchildren and neices.

    And I am not saying open the borders. I am saying make the process easier for family members to come and visit. So long a$$pat.
     

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