In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:
In response to skeeter20's comment:
"Choice" is not the right metric, or at least not understood in economic terms. Scarcity is the right metric, or at least needs to be made part of the conversaiton.
Choice as used here, is the choice between thre government mandated plans: you must choose one: between a bronze, silver, and gold plan. This is not a restriction of choice, a government induced scarcity in choice, made for the purpose, at least by plan, of lowering costs.
Real choice includes the choice to choose nothing.
Why would you not want health insurance? You do realize that the cost of those who don't have health insurance gets paid for one way or the other...usually by higher insurance premuims
Why would you not want a gun? We have the 2nd Ammendment. Maybe we should make gun ownership mandatory. After all, I don't want to pay for oyur health care as a result of not defending yourself.
Because the chances of me getting in a life threatening car accident or getting cancer is far greater than my ever needing a gun to defend myself. In the case of a car accident I would prefer to have health insurance versus a gun. If I need cancer treatments I'd rather have health insurance instead of a gun.
Self-insure is not only a possiblilty, but many self-employed people do just that. Self-insuered means pay out of pocket, just in case your union bosses didn't clue you in.
Yes, I know what self-insured means. I don't know about you but I don't have hundred's of thousands of dollars at my disposal in case I need life threatening treatments. Nor do most people.
Real choice includes the ability to pick and choose what I want to cover.
Which no one has ever been able to do on an employer based plan. Never.
You have always been able to decline insurance, and pay out of pocket. Always, until now.
First, the issue was about picking and choosing what one wants covered. Not declining coverage. No need to move the goal posts here. Second, you can still decline insurance if you so choose.
So, when your company offers you plans, they are not in reality the "same" plans. Government has put restrictions and demands on the plans about what must be covered, what tests will be administered, and have lumped everyone into three catagories, that's 350 million people lumped into three categories. What youu have is a government induced scarcity of choice. That's going to raise prices dramatically.
What are you talking about? My company offers different plans from different insurers. I have the option for two different BCBS plans. One from HPHC, one from NHP and there is one other I can't recall. None of which are the same plans. They all vary a bit with copays and deductibles
From the ACA:
(1) IN GENERAL.—A health plan not providing a bronze, silver, gold, or platinum level of coverage shall be treated as
meeting the requirements of subsection (d) with respect to any
plan year if—
(A) the only individuals who are eligible to enroll in
the plan are individuals described in paragraph (2); and
(B) the plan provides—
(i) except as provided in clause (ii), the essential
health benefits determined under subsection (b), except that the plan provides no benefits for any plan
year until the individual has incurred cost-sharing expenses in an amount equal to the annual limitation in
effect under subsection (c)(1) for the plan year (except
as provided for in section 2713); and
(ii) coverage for at least three primary care visits.
(2) INDIVIDUALS ELIGIBLE FOR ENROLLMENT.—An individual is described in this paragraph for any plan year if the
(A) has not attained the age of 30 before the beginning
of the plan year; or
(B) has a certification in effect for any plan year under
this title that the individual is exempt from the requirement under section 5000A of the Internal Revenue Code of
1986 by reason of—
(i) section 5000A(e)(1) of such Code (relating to individuals without affordable coverage); or
(ii) section 5000A(e)(5) of such Code (relating to
individuals with hardships).
The variations you are seeing in the plans offered are in reference to the Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platnum plans. That these plans are offered by different insurance comapnies is meaningless. What they offer, how much they charge, all controlled by the ACA. There is more that goes into defining this, I just grabbed one segment from the hundreds of pages.
The broader point is that the type of coverage, what coverage contains, how much the insurance company can charge, is all covered under the bill.
Here's a link:
My god....you don't know the difference between employer based health insurance plans and the exchange plans. TWO different things. Employers don't offer the exchange plans (gold, silver, bronze , etc)
I CLEARLY stated my EMPLOYER offered different plans with different benefits. What YOU brought up is entirely different. The exchange plans are for those people who opt out of employer based plans or who are self-employed for examples.
Apples and oranges.
Why would you need hundreds of thousands of dollars to self-insure? Are you spending that much now? You can self-insure for normal health care needs and add a catastrophic plan for a couple hundred a month. You pay for your normal doctor visits and care, and if you get hit by a truck, you are covered. I think that kind of plan would actually cover the vast majority of people, but that owuld make too much sense, you know, taking care of yourself. Better to let government do it. In other words, let the rest of us pay for you to take care of yourself.
Not moving the goal posts. You are not keeping your plan, and not necessarily keeping your doctor. The government has about a thousand pages in this bill defining just what is included in your healthcare plan, who gets penalized, etc. Thinking that you still have your same plan or an actual choice outside this bill is real head in the sand activity. In order for your statement to be true, Obamacare would have to be completely innocuous, in which case, why do we need it?
I guess you are simply willing to give up your freedom for a little bit of security, false security at that. Franklin warned us about people like you.