Obama's economy remains in the sewer

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Obama's economy remains in the sewer

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     Why do you think unemployement is still high? Companies not hiring because of uncertainty. 

     



    And because of a lack of demand for their products.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Obama's economy remains in the sewer

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     Why do you think unemployement is still high? Companies not hiring because of uncertainty. 

     

     



    And because of a lack of demand for their products.

     

     



    Right...to me that falls under uncertainty. Uncertain about when demand for products will pick up again.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Obama's economy remains in the sewer

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     Why do you think unemployement is still high? Companies not hiring because of uncertainty. 

     

     



    And because of a lack of demand for their products.

     

     



    And, why do you think there is a lack of demand for their products?  Are there fewer customers?  Are they offering the wrong products?

    What, exactly, does "lack of demand" mean?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Obama's economy remains in the sewer

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     Why do you think unemployement is still high? Companies not hiring because of uncertainty. 

     

     



    And because of a lack of demand for their products.

     

     

     



    Right...to me that falls under uncertainty. Uncertain about when demand for products will pick up again.

     



    Perhaps.  Or maybe they just sell crapppy products that nobody wants.

    Maybe they need to innovate some more or invest in new r&d to fill the void.

    And in a service economy like ours, that also means developing new services that people want/need.

    Personally, I suspect that people have reached a sort of peak for certain consumer products that they just don't need any more (if they ever did).

    For example, I read recently that TVs have reached their innovation endpoint to where any further advances (3D) are likely to be either ignored or downplayed.  Maybe...maybe not.

    Another example might be the housing market trough...people who own their own houses propagate lots of different commerce streams, while people who rent (usually) do not.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Obama's economy remains in the sewer

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     Why do you think unemployement is still high? Companies not hiring because of uncertainty. 

     

     



    And because of a lack of demand for their products.

     

     

     



    And, why do you think there is a lack of demand for their products?  Are there fewer customers?  Are they offering the wrong products?

     

    What, exactly, does "lack of demand" mean?



    Both.  I think there are both fewer customers AND fewer products and services that people really want or need.

    Of course, it varies widely, but leans toward the latter, IMO.

    It's not just people, but businesses and institutions are also consumers...just on different scales.  And yes, governments, too.

     

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Obama's economy remains in the sewer

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     Why do you think unemployement is still high? Companies not hiring because of uncertainty. 

     

     



    And because of a lack of demand for their products.

     

     

     



    Right...to me that falls under uncertainty. Uncertain about when demand for products will pick up again.

     

     



    Perhaps.  Or maybe they just sell crapppy products that nobody wants.

     

     

    Maybe they need to innovate some more or invest in new r&d to fill the void.

    And in a service economy like ours, that also means developing new services that people want/need.

    Personally, I suspect that people have reached a sort of peak for certain consumer products that they just don't need any more (if they ever did).

    For example, I read recently that TVs have reached their innovation endpoint to where any further advances (3D) are likely to be either ignored or downplayed.  Maybe...maybe not.

    Another example might be the housing market trough...people who own their own houses propagate lots of different commerce streams, while people who rent (usually) do not.

     



    Yeah that's probably it. Couldn't have been due to worst economy is decades and millions of people out of work. Must have been the product.

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Obama's economy remains in the sewer

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     


    Yeah that's probably it. Couldn't have been due to worst economy is decades and millions of people out of work. Must have been the product.

     



    I never said the economy and unemployment weren't factors...

    ...only that some nebulous idea of "uncertainty" wasn't the only one.  

     

    Apple proved that if you build a product that people really want, they will buy it.  If you don't...(blackberry), then they won't, and you're out of business.

    Again, most businesses fail because of the owners' lack of business sense or general incompetence.

     

     

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Obama's economy remains in the sewer

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     Why do you think unemployement is still high? Companies not hiring because of uncertainty. 

     

     



    And because of a lack of demand for their products.

     

     

     



    And, why do you think there is a lack of demand for their products?  Are there fewer customers?  Are they offering the wrong products?

     

    What, exactly, does "lack of demand" mean?

     



    Both.  I think there are both fewer customers AND fewer products and services that people really want or need.

     

    Of course, it varies widely, but leans toward the latter, IMO.

    It's not just people, but businesses and institutions are also consumers...just on different scales.  And yes, governments, too.

     

     



    Why are there fewer customers?

    Why are businesses offering products people don't need?

    I guess what I'm driving at is that something is causing "lack of demand", causing there to be fewer customers, causing businesses to have the wrong products.  Can you put your finger on the root cause?

     

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Obama's economy remains in the sewer

    In response to UserName99's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     Why do you think unemployement is still high? Companies not hiring because of uncertainty. 

     

     



    And because of a lack of demand for their products.

     

     

     



    And, why do you think there is a lack of demand for their products?  Are there fewer customers?  Are they offering the wrong products?

     

    What, exactly, does "lack of demand" mean?

     



    Both.  I think there are both fewer customers AND fewer products and services that people really want or need.

     

    Of course, it varies widely, but leans toward the latter, IMO.

    It's not just people, but businesses and institutions are also consumers...just on different scales.  And yes, governments, too.

     

     

     



    Why are there fewer customers?

     

    Why are businesses offering products people don't need?

    I guess what I'm driving at is that something is causing "lack of demand", causing there to be fewer customers, causing businesses to have the wrong products.  Can you put your finger on the root cause?

     

     



    Only the blind or complicit don't see the root cause.  There is no demand because there is little money in the hands of the majority. The wealth of this country has been redistributed to the wealthy, and away from the middle. Wages have been stagnant for decades, and the additional cost imposed on workers for health care and their children's education have left them both unable to consume and unable to innovate. The wealthy have hoarded this wealth, leaving the country without its primary source of vigor, a vibrant middle class.

     



    I'm not wealthy and my wages haven't been stagnant...ever. Have yours? How many in this thread have experienced stagnant wages for decades?

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Obama's economy remains in the sewer

    In response to UserName99's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     Why do you think unemployement is still high? Companies not hiring because of uncertainty. 

     

     



    And because of a lack of demand for their products.

     

     

     



    And, why do you think there is a lack of demand for their products?  Are there fewer customers?  Are they offering the wrong products?

     

    What, exactly, does "lack of demand" mean?

     



    Both.  I think there are both fewer customers AND fewer products and services that people really want or need.

     

    Of course, it varies widely, but leans toward the latter, IMO.

    It's not just people, but businesses and institutions are also consumers...just on different scales.  And yes, governments, too.

     

     

     



    Why are there fewer customers?

     

    Why are businesses offering products people don't need?

    I guess what I'm driving at is that something is causing "lack of demand", causing there to be fewer customers, causing businesses to have the wrong products.  Can you put your finger on the root cause?

     

     



    Only the blind or complicit don't see the root cause.  There is no demand because there is little money in the hands of the majority. The wealth of this country has been redistributed to the wealthy, and away from the middle. Wages have been stagnant for decades, and the additional cost imposed on workers for health care, their children's education, and their retirement have left them both unable to consume and unable to innovate. The wealthy have hoarded this wealth, leaving the country without its primary source of vigor, a vibrant middle class.

     



    Silly answer.  Really, it is.

    What do the rich do with all their money?  Use it to light cigars?

    The root cause is government intervention in a formerly free market.  When you distort the incentives enough, the money stops moving to where it needsto go.  

    Trust me, rich people want to inves their money, not use it instead of toilet paper.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Obama's economy remains in the sewer

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     Why do you think unemployement is still high? Companies not hiring because of uncertainty. 

     

     



    And because of a lack of demand for their products.

     

     

     



    And, why do you think there is a lack of demand for their products?  Are there fewer customers?  Are they offering the wrong products?

     

    What, exactly, does "lack of demand" mean?

     



    Both.  I think there are both fewer customers AND fewer products and services that people really want or need.

     

    Of course, it varies widely, but leans toward the latter, IMO.

    It's not just people, but businesses and institutions are also consumers...just on different scales.  And yes, governments, too.

     

     

     



    Why are there fewer customers?

     

    Why are businesses offering products people don't need?

    I guess what I'm driving at is that something is causing "lack of demand", causing there to be fewer customers, causing businesses to have the wrong products.  Can you put your finger on the root cause?

     



    I think part of it is that business owners would rather try to copy a previously successful idea instead of coming up with something on their own.  Either it's a risk-aversion to innovation, OR some business folk prefer the easy way.

    In tech circles, the IP patent mess has a hand in preventing some companies from innovating.  Others are just too lazy.

    There's more to it, of course.  And I'm not sure if it's the "wrong products" or the right products made poorly...probably a little of both.

    One thing is certain: blaming it all on govt regulation or taxes is just another cop out.  Real entrepreneurs work with what they have, not with what they don't have.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Obama's economy remains in the sewer

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     


    I'm not wealthy and my wages haven't been stagnant...ever. Have yours? How many in this thread have experienced stagnant wages for decades?


    In real terms, wages have indeed been stagnant for about 30 years...

    ...though not as bad for the professional classes as for the lower 80%.

    And the gap is widening constantly.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName99. Show UserName99's posts

    Re: Obama's economy remains in the sewer

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     


    I'm not wealthy and my wages haven't been stagnant...ever. Have yours? How many in this thread have experienced stagnant wages for decades?

     

     


    In real terms, wages have indeed been stagnant for about 30 years...

    ...though not as bad for the professional classes as for the lower 80%.

    And the gap is widening constantly.

     



    It sure is.

    According to 2010 census data, 48% of individual wage earners make less than $25K.(Romney's Takers). Those that make less than $40K include fully 2/3 of our work force.

    Another way to slice it: The median income of the bottom 90% is less than $30K and the average of that same group is about 10% higher.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Obama's economy remains in the sewer

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     Why do you think unemployement is still high? Companies not hiring because of uncertainty. 

     

     



    And because of a lack of demand for their products.

     

     

     



    And, why do you think there is a lack of demand for their products?  Are there fewer customers?  Are they offering the wrong products?

     

    What, exactly, does "lack of demand" mean?

     



    Both.  I think there are both fewer customers AND fewer products and services that people really want or need.

     

    Of course, it varies widely, but leans toward the latter, IMO.

    It's not just people, but businesses and institutions are also consumers...just on different scales.  And yes, governments, too.

     

     

     



    Why are there fewer customers?

     

    Why are businesses offering products people don't need?

    I guess what I'm driving at is that something is causing "lack of demand", causing there to be fewer customers, causing businesses to have the wrong products.  Can you put your finger on the root cause?

     

     



    I think part of it is that business owners would rather try to copy a previously successful idea instead of coming up with something on their own.  Either it's a risk-aversion to innovation, OR some business folk prefer the easy way.

     

    In tech circles, the IP patent mess has a hand in preventing some companies from innovating.  Others are just too lazy.

    There's more to it, of course.  And I'm not sure if it's the "wrong products" or the right products made poorly...probably a little of both.

    One thing is certain: blaming it all on govt regulation or taxes is just another cop out.  Real entrepreneurs work with what they have, not with what they don't have.

     

     



    Some companies pursue this follower strategy for sure.  But, then again, they need someone to follow.  that company is the innovator/leader.  However, that doesn't answer the basic question.

    And, sure, government intervention is not the only factor, but it is by far the largest.  Would there be as many lobbyists as we have If it wasn't? 

     The market, or, more specifically, companies operate in a free market, left to its own devices, does a great job providing the right product.  It has to, or someone else will.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Obama's economy remains in the sewer

    In response to UserName99's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     


    I'm not wealthy and my wages haven't been stagnant...ever. Have yours? How many in this thread have experienced stagnant wages for decades?

     

     


    In real terms, wages have indeed been stagnant for about 30 years...

    ...though not as bad for the professional classes as for the lower 80%.

    And the gap is widening constantly.

     

     



    It sure is.

     

    According to 2010 census data, 48% of individual wage earners make less than $25K.(Romney's Takers). Those that make less than $40K include fully 2/3 of our work force.

    Another way to slice it: The median income of the bottom 90% is less than $30K and the average of that same group is about 10% higher.

     



    A meaningless aggregation of every job, every salary covering too large of a timeframe.

    I thought the American dream was about making it on your own, not bellyaching about "the man" holding you down.

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from tacobreath. Show tacobreath's posts

    Re: Obama's economy remains in the sewer

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     


    So this... 

     

    2013: Caterpillar Inc said on Friday it was laying off 460 workers at a U.S. plant that makes mining equipment.


    Is factless? You sure about that?

    http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/blog/2013/04/caterpillar-permanently-cuts-460-jobs.html

     




     

    The layoffs are true but they don't belong in a thread about "Obama's economy".

    Caterpillar cited "softening demand from the global mining industry".

    Not much Obama can do about that.




    Is obama responsible for anything in the Lib world?  The thread is about "Obama`s economy".  This is it.  Awful, terrible, pathetic.  Layoffs everywhere.  Someone points out 1 company that hired in 2012 (probably assuming that Americans couldn`t be crazy enough to re-elect the incompetent), and is laying off in 2013.........and you think that`s an accomplishment?

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Obama's economy remains in the sewer

    In response to tacobreath's comment:

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     


    So this... 

     

    2013: Caterpillar Inc said on Friday it was laying off 460 workers at a U.S. plant that makes mining equipment.


    Is factless? You sure about that?

    http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/blog/2013/04/caterpillar-permanently-cuts-460-jobs.html

     




     

    The layoffs are true but they don't belong in a thread about "Obama's economy".

    Caterpillar cited "softening demand from the global mining industry".

    Not much Obama can do about that.

     




     

    Is obama responsible for anything in the Lib world?  The thread is about "Obama`s economy".  This is it.  Awful, terrible, pathetic.  Layoffs everywhere.  Someone points out 1 company that hired in 2012 (probably assuming that Americans couldn`t be crazy enough to re-elect the incompetent), and is laying off in 2013.........and you think that`s an accomplishment?

     



    Rush Limbaugh has pointed that the strange modern phenomenon that the low information voters never blame the current President for anything....


    And the clueless libs actually claim the problem with the economy is "not enough demand" and "government austerity"  ..

    Translation: more government  stimulus, food stamps, Obamaphones and other goodies.....and the cycle of deterioration will continue.

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: Obama's economy remains in the sewer

    Isn't anybody on the the " Right Side of the Aisle " upset over the fact that American Businesses feel that they don't have to have any allegiance to the country that provided them with a well educated work force , infrastructure ,  money for R&D, subsidies and a favorable legal system which is and was paid for by the tax payers . It's seems to me that the righties in the other 99% of this country really fell for the PR that the 1 % has been selling .

    btw the biggest problem that I see with this country and the world is corruption by ALL POLITICIANS and JUDGES who allowed these Corporations to get away with they treat us.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Obama's economy remains in the sewer

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:

    Isn't anybody on the the " Right Side of the Aisle " upset over the fact that American Businesses feel that they don't have to have any allegiance to the country that provided them with a well educated work force , infrastructure ,  money for R&D, subsidies and a favorable legal system which is and was paid for by the tax payers . It's seems to me that the righties in the other 99% of this country really fell for the PR that the 1 % has been selling .

    btw the biggest problem that I see with this country and the world is corruption by ALL POLITICIANS and JUDGES who allowed these Corporations to get away with they treat us.

    Who said they don't have any allegiance? Without corporations, we don't have jobs, we don't have an economy.

    As far as the "you didn't build that" flavor to your post, it seems to me what I learned is you have the opportunity as an individual, and it is up to you to make it happen.  Government, even on its bestdays, doesn't build or do all these things.  Taxpayers do.

    With the death of Thatcher, it is a reminder to us of some of the other threats, like unions that roll over economies with unrealistic/unattainable  demands.  But, then again, unions have been the playthings of progressives for a few decades now.  For example, Trumpka is a dedicated socialist, and uses YOUR union dues to push for your own demise, into a socialist morass.

     

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