Only One-Third Of Obamacare Exchange Sign-Ups Were From The Previously Uninsured

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Only One-Third Of Obamacare Exchange Sign-Ups Were From The Previously Uninsured

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/03/31/rand-only-one-third-of-obamacare-exchange-sign-ups-were-from-the-previously-uninsured/

    What’s important to remember is that this is not how Obamacare was supposed to work. The Congressional Budget Office, in its original estimates, predicted that the vast majority of the people eligible for subsidies on the exchanges would be previously uninsured individuals.

    Instead, the vast majority are previously insured people, many of whom are getting a better deal on the exchanges because they either qualify for subsidies, or because they’re older individuals who benefit from the law’s steep rate hikes on the young....

    The bottom line is this: there are a lot of numbers flying around out there about how many people are benefiting from Obamacare. A big part of the reason is political; advocates of the law want to claim that so many millions of people are dependent on the law for coverage, that it will be difficult to repeal.

    "American taxpayers have forked over $2 trillion to uproot an existing system with which most Americans were satisfied.  If only a fraction of the law’s “newly” enrolled previously lacked coverage, how many Americans will consider the broader expensive disruption to have been worth it?"

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName9. Show UserName9's posts

    Re: Only One-Third Of Obamacare Exchange Sign-Ups Were From The Previously Uninsured


    Its simplistic to compare total numbers of 'insured' today, vs 'insured' before the law.  Just stating a number completely ignores the fact that many of the previously insured were in fact underinsured.

    And anyone who uses Avik Roy as their source for information on the ACA should be given a lollypop and swiftly ushered away from the adult table.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: Only One-Third Of Obamacare Exchange Sign-Ups Were From The Previously Uninsured

    Having failed in their dire predictions of failure and doom conservatives have now pivoted towards a few messaging strategies that seek to make excuses for why their warnings never materialized with this claim among them, but also including the "but how many people have paid" argument, the "but young people aren't signing up" argument, the "there are more cancellations than signups, thus a net loss" argument, and of course the best of all "the White house is cooking the books" argument.  

    Settle down conservatives.  Everytime you open your collective mouths, a few months later you are proved wrong.  I am surprised someone in the conservative bubble hasn't cautioned you all to stop flapping your gums about topics that will gain absolute clairty once all the numbers are in, as opposed to continually trying to poison the well of public opinion even as millions in the public have flocked to the very program that you, the GOP specifically and conservatives in general,  have been predicting for 4 years would fail.  

    The battle for Obamacare is over, you lost, a long time ago.  

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: Only One-Third Of Obamacare Exchange Sign-Ups Were From The Previously Uninsured

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Having failed in their dire predictions of failure and doom conservatives have now pivoted towards a few messaging strategies that seek to make excuses for why their warnings never materialized with this claim among them, but also including the "but how many people have paid" argument, the "but young people aren't signing up" argument, the "there are more cancellations than signups, thus a net loss" argument, and of course the best of all "the White house is cooking the books" argument.  

    Settle down conservatives.  Everytime you open your collective mouths, a few months later you are proved wrong.  I am surprised someone in the conservative bubble hasn't cautioned you all to stop flapping your gums about topics that will gain absolute clairty once all the numbers are in, as opposed to continually trying to poison the well of public opinion even as millions in the public have flocked to the very program that you, the GOP specifically and conservatives in general,  have been predicting for 4 years would fail.  

    The battle for Obamacare is over, you lost, a long time ago.  

    [/QUOTE]


    You aren't calling this a success, are you?  6 million signup of which most are subsidized and previously had insurance.

    Which leads me to the larger question:  Should OBamacare continue, or sohuld it be ended?  Wars end.  Why not this?  What is so holy about this that oyu think it cannot or should not end?  After all, it missed the ncredibly low bar of 7 million new enrollees by somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 million (or more).

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Only One-Third Of Obamacare Exchange Sign-Ups Were From The Previously Uninsured

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Having failed in their dire predictions of failure and doom conservatives have now pivoted towards a few messaging strategies that seek to make excuses for why their warnings never materialized with this claim among them, but also including the "but how many people have paid" argument, the "but young people aren't signing up" argument, the "there are more cancellations than signups, thus a net loss" argument, and of course the best of all "the White house is cooking the books" argument.  

    Settle down conservatives.  Everytime you open your collective mouths, a few months later you are proved wrong.  I am surprised someone in the conservative bubble hasn't cautioned you all to stop flapping your gums about topics that will gain absolute clairty once all the numbers are in, as opposed to continually trying to poison the well of public opinion even as millions in the public have flocked to the very program that you, the GOP specifically and conservatives in general,  have been predicting for 4 years would fail.  

    The battle for Obamacare is over, you lost, a long time ago.  

    [/QUOTE]

    See you in November.

     
  6. This post has been removed.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: Only One-Third Of Obamacare Exchange Sign-Ups Were From The Previously Uninsured

    In response to ronreganfan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Having failed in their dire predictions of failure and doom conservatives have now pivoted towards a few messaging strategies that seek to make excuses for why their warnings never materialized with this claim among them, but also including the "but how many people have paid" argument, the "but young people aren't signing up" argument, the "there are more cancellations than signups, thus a net loss" argument, and of course the best of all "the White house is cooking the books" argument.  

    Settle down conservatives.  Everytime you open your collective mouths, a few months later you are proved wrong.  I am surprised someone in the conservative bubble hasn't cautioned you all to stop flapping your gums about topics that will gain absolute clairty once all the numbers are in, as opposed to continually trying to poison the well of public opinion even as millions in the public have flocked to the very program that you, the GOP specifically and conservatives in general,  have been predicting for 4 years would fail.  

    The battle for Obamacare is over, you lost, a long time ago.  

    [/QUOTE]


    You aren't calling this a success, are you?  6 million signup of which most are subsidized and previously had insurance.

    Which leads me to the larger question:  Should OBamacare continue, or sohuld it be ended?  Wars end.  Why not this?  What is so holy about this that oyu think it cannot or should not end?  After all, it missed the ncredibly low bar of 7 million new enrollees by somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 million (or more).

    [/QUOTE]

    As of today, over 7 million have signed up, just confirmed.  As I stated, you all run your mouths and then are proven wrong.  In this case it only took a couple of hours.  

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: Only One-Third Of Obamacare Exchange Sign-Ups Were From The Previously Uninsured

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Having failed in their dire predictions of failure and doom conservatives have now pivoted towards a few messaging strategies that seek to make excuses for why their warnings never materialized with this claim among them, but also including the "but how many people have paid" argument, the "but young people aren't signing up" argument, the "there are more cancellations than signups, thus a net loss" argument, and of course the best of all "the White house is cooking the books" argument.  

    Settle down conservatives.  Everytime you open your collective mouths, a few months later you are proved wrong.  I am surprised someone in the conservative bubble hasn't cautioned you all to stop flapping your gums about topics that will gain absolute clairty once all the numbers are in, as opposed to continually trying to poison the well of public opinion even as millions in the public have flocked to the very program that you, the GOP specifically and conservatives in general,  have been predicting for 4 years would fail.  

    The battle for Obamacare is over, you lost, a long time ago.  

    [/QUOTE]

    See you in November.

    [/QUOTE]

    Hey remember that time when Mitt Romney was running for president and you guys were all like "see you in November?"  

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Only One-Third Of Obamacare Exchange Sign-Ups Were From The Previously Uninsured

    In response to twelve_angry_men's comment:

    5 million people are being denied access to affordable health insurance due to the partisan politics of wingnuts.

    If the wingnuts just got out of the way the total people with insurance would double.



    Right, Government programs all work just peachy keen, as long as no one dare criticize them.

    Too bad you werent around in the 1930s....you would have cheerleaded the Soviet 5 Year Agricultural Plan with equal gusto....it also was delayed, became a 6 year plan...

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Only One-Third Of Obamacare Exchange Sign-Ups Were From The Previously Uninsured

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ronreganfan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Having failed in their dire predictions of failure and doom conservatives have now pivoted towards a few messaging strategies that seek to make excuses for why their warnings never materialized with this claim among them, but also including the "but how many people have paid" argument, the "but young people aren't signing up" argument, the "there are more cancellations than signups, thus a net loss" argument, and of course the best of all "the White house is cooking the books" argument.  

    Settle down conservatives.  Everytime you open your collective mouths, a few months later you are proved wrong.  I am surprised someone in the conservative bubble hasn't cautioned you all to stop flapping your gums about topics that will gain absolute clairty once all the numbers are in, as opposed to continually trying to poison the well of public opinion even as millions in the public have flocked to the very program that you, the GOP specifically and conservatives in general,  have been predicting for 4 years would fail.  

    The battle for Obamacare is over, you lost, a long time ago.  

    [/QUOTE]


    You aren't calling this a success, are you?  6 million signup of which most are subsidized and previously had insurance.

    Which leads me to the larger question:  Should OBamacare continue, or sohuld it be ended?  Wars end.  Why not this?  What is so holy about this that oyu think it cannot or should not end?  After all, it missed the ncredibly low bar of 7 million new enrollees by somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 million (or more).

    [/QUOTE]

    As of today, over 7 million have signed up, just confirmed.  As I stated, you all run your mouths and then are proven wrong.  In this case it only took a couple of hours.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Your Government has the information as to how many signups have paid....your Government has the information as to how many are previously insured...your Government has the information as to how many are receiving taxpayer subsidies...

    But your Government wont tell us...they just spew propaganda as to the 7 million number, and you swallow it like a good liberal.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Only One-Third Of Obamacare Exchange Sign-Ups Were From The Previously Uninsured

    "Stalin!! Communists!! Socialism!!"

     

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Only One-Third Of Obamacare Exchange Sign-Ups Were From The Previously Uninsured

    Breitbart:

     

    Obamacare, the plan purportedly created to provide health coverage for the uninsured, has enrolled just 1.7% of America's 48.6 million uninsured.

    News of the disastrous numbers comes as nervous Democrats and President Barack Obama, ahead of the November midterm elections, did their best on Monday's enrollment deadline to put a positive spin on the deeply unpopular Obamacare program. The latest Associated Press poll finds that Obamacare has now hit an all-time low approval rating of just 26 percent.

    The White House now claims an Obamacare enrollment figure of six million people. However, according to The New York Times, at least 20% of those never paid their premiums to activate coverage, leaving them uninsured. That drops the number down to 4.8 million.

    Next, as Washington Post columnist Ed Rogers notes, "the official HHS numbers still include duplicate enrollments." No one knows how many duplicate enrollments are in the stack; the White House refuses to say. However, given the disastrous Obamacare website failures, it is reasonable to imagine that the pile is riddled with numerous "false start" applications.

    That leaves the most important question: How many people are gaining insurance who were previously uninsured? After all, that was the stated reason for Obamacare in the first place. McKinsey & Co. says that only 27% of those who have picked a plan through Obamacare were previously uninsured. 

    Moreover, McKinsey says these individuals have an unusually high rate of failing to pay their first month's premium. "Only 53 percent of them had paid their first premium, compared with 86 percent of the previously insured," reports CNBC. 

    Even conceding the White House its alleged six million enrollment figure (which, again, includes duplicates and incomplete applications), that would mean that just 810,000 of paying Obamacare customers were previously uninsured, a figure that represents 1.7% of America's 48.6 million uninsured people.

    Indeed, most of those the White House counts as Obamacare enrollees are among the five million who had their health insurance plans canceled due to Obamacare.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Only One-Third Of Obamacare Exchange Sign-Ups Were From The Previously Uninsured

    Obamacare Scam Explained:

    To insure the uninsured, we make the insured uninsured. Then we make the formerly insured pay more to become reinsured, so we can insure the uninsured for free or nearly free.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Only One-Third Of Obamacare Exchange Sign-Ups Were From The Previously Uninsured

    In response to WhatNowDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

     

    In response to twelve_angry_men's comment:

    []

    5 million people are being denied access to affordable health insurance due to the partisan politics of wingnuts.

    If the wingnuts just got out of the way the total people with insurance would double.

    []


    Right, Government programs all work just peachy keen, as long as no one dare criticize them.

     




     

    I think his point was that this was a case of Obamacare opponents refusing to set up exchanges and resisting other areas of the law, then laughing about the number of people not signed up to Obamacare.

    Bears a resemblence to refusing to raise the debt limit unless there is unconditional surrender from the Democrats, and then blaming the Democrats for market shocks and shutdowns .....because they didn't surrender unconditionally.


    Backed up, as always, with the "but that's cool because we're right because we say we are right" mantra.

    [/QUOTE]

    The Supreme Court held that ObamaCare was only constitutional if states had the option to refuse to surrender their sovereignty to the disastrous boondoggle...and many Governors , to their eternal credit, refused the billions in ObamaCare bribe money....

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Only One-Third Of Obamacare Exchange Sign-Ups Were From The Previously Uninsured

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    Obamacare Scam Explained:

    To insure the uninsured, we make the insured uninsured. Then we make the formerly insured pay more to become reinsured, so we can insure the uninsured for free or nearly free.



    Spoken like someone who knows little about how the law works.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Only One-Third Of Obamacare Exchange Sign-Ups Were From The Previously Uninsured

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Obamacare Scam Explained:

    To insure the uninsured, we make the insured uninsured. Then we make the formerly insured pay more to become reinsured, so we can insure the uninsured for free or nearly free.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Spoken like someone who knows little about how the law works.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I know its an over simplification but CLC's comment although snarky seemed fairly accurate to me.

    ACA turned the prior system into turmoil, especially for individuals and sole practioners who liked their catastrophic policies because they wanted to manage their own risk.  These folks found their policies cancelled by ACA test and then they had to pay more for more.  While the uninsured received massive subsidies through a reallocation of wealth tax from premiums to lost tax benefits for HSA's that now have lower maximums, mine dropped from $3600 to $2500. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Only One-Third Of Obamacare Exchange Sign-Ups Were From The Previously Uninsured

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Obamacare Scam Explained:

    To insure the uninsured, we make the insured uninsured. Then we make the formerly insured pay more to become reinsured, so we can insure the uninsured for free or nearly free.

     

     



    Spoken like someone who knows little about how the law works.

     

     

     



    I know its an over simplification but CLC's comment although snarky seemed fairly accurate to me.

    ACA turned the prior system into turmoil, especially for individuals and sole practioners who liked their catastrophic policies because they wanted to manage their own risk.  These folks found their policies cancelled by ACA test and then they had to pay more for more.  While the uninsured received massive subsidies through a reallocation of wealth tax from premiums to lost tax benefits for HSA's that now have lower maximums, mine dropped from $3600 to $2500. 

    [/QUOTE]

    What you and he are missing is that fact that while a few in the individual markets ended up paying more...

    ...many more people ended up paying far less than before. 

    Combined with exemptions for policy renewals and certain catastrophic policies, the significant gaps in coverage have been closed.  Reduced tax benefits have been offset with lower lifetime caps and more coverage across the board.  

    (I can't comment on your specific, individual policy.)

     

    The odd thing is that NO proponent of the law is saying it's perfect.  None ever did.  Most of us wanted more.

    And yet, the opponent counter-argument is "It's not perfect, so scrap the whole thing."

    That just makes no sense.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: Only One-Third Of Obamacare Exchange Sign-Ups Were From The Previously Uninsured

    In response to twelve_angry_men's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    5 million people are being denied access to affordable health insurance due to the partisan politics of wingnuts.

    If the wingnuts just got out of the way the total people with insurance would double.

    [/QUOTE]

    Where?

    i would think you would be upset that four years into Obamacare, only 6 or 7 million are supposedly signed up of the 30 million who were supposed to be signed up.  I would call that a failure, particularly considering most of those who signed up were previously insured, but were kicked off their existing insurance DUE to Obamacare.

    When the heck are you progressive loons going to wake up?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: Only One-Third Of Obamacare Exchange Sign-Ups Were From The Previously Uninsured

    In response to WhatNowDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Well, I continue to think that they need to consider allowing an 'iron' plan that is more catastrophic.

    I recognize that the system depends on health insureds, who are supposed to use the preventative care and later incur less expenses because of it, but the fact of the matter is that it is a pretty reasonable gamble for a healthy person to take a catastrophic plan.

    If you're healthy and you're young, you just aren't going to the doctor much.

    As is, the viability of the ACA hinges on whether the penalties are enough to push health insureds to sign up for 'bronze' plans at a minimum, and whether the subsidies are high enough to encourage people near or on the fence to sign up so as to avoid paying a penalty and getting nothing in return.

    [/QUOTE]

    Many of those kicked off their insurance recently had what you would call iron plans.

    which brings me to the larger point: why the heck do we need this law? We already had iron plans.

     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Only One-Third Of Obamacare Exchange Sign-Ups Were From The Previously Uninsured

    In response to ronreganfan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to twelve_angry_men's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    5 million people are being denied access to affordable health insurance due to the partisan politics of wingnuts.

    If the wingnuts just got out of the way the total people with insurance would double.

    [/QUOTE]

    Where?

    i would think you would be upset that four years into Obamacare, only 6 or 7 million are supposedly signed up of the 30 million who were supposed to be signed up.  I would call that a failure, particularly considering most of those who signed up were previously insured, but were kicked off their existing insurance DUE to Obamacare.

    When the heck are you progressive loons going to wake up?

    [/QUOTE]

    You're being as silly as bobin.

    Open enrollment has only been six months.  The 7 million does not include young people who were allowed to enroll on their parents' plans or previously enacted provisions.

    Most of the people whose plans were cancelled Dec 31 were re-enrolled immediately through their same insurance companies...often with better coverage than before.

    And it's not done yet.

     

    CBO says 37 million new insured under current law once it's fully implemented.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from babytut. Show babytut's posts

    Re: Only One-Third Of Obamacare Exchange Sign-Ups Were From The Previously Uninsured


    Whoooooops

    'The debate over repealing this law is over': Obama boasts 7.1 MILLION have signed up to Obamacare - but study shows just 858,000 newly insured Americans have paid up!

    • President took a major victory lap and took political shots at Republicans, but ignored shortcomings in his administration's official numbers
    • Press secretary Jay Carney will only say 'we're aggregating a lot of data' when asked how many enrollees have paid for coverage
    • Carney dodged questions about damning study that showed very few Obamacare customers were uninsured before the law took effect
    • Percentages from a hush-hush RAND Corporation study suggest barely 858,000 previously uninsured Americans have enrolled and paid premiums
    • HHS Secretary Sebelius met a televised challenge Monday about 'unpopular' Obamacare with lengthy awkward silence



     

     
  23. This post has been removed.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: Only One-Third Of Obamacare Exchange Sign-Ups Were From The Previously Uninsured

    In response to twelve_angry_men's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to babytut's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Whoooooops

    'The debate over repealing this law is over': Obama boasts 7.1 MILLION have signed up to Obamacare - but study shows just 858,000 newly insured Americans have paid up!

    • President took a major victory lap and took political shots at Republicans, but ignored shortcomings in his administration's official numbers
    • Press secretary Jay Carney will only say 'we're aggregating a lot of data' when asked how many enrollees have paid for coverage
    • Carney dodged questions about damning study that showed very few Obamacare customers were uninsured before the law took effect
    • Percentages from a hush-hush RAND Corporation study suggest barely 858,000 previously uninsured Americans have enrolled and paid premiums
    • HHS Secretary Sebelius met a televised challenge Monday about 'unpopular' Obamacare with lengthy awkward silence



     

    [/QUOTE]


    I hear alot about this RAND study but not one echo chamber has a link to the actual study.

    Now why would that be?

    [/QUOTE]

    Here yah go:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/03/31/rand-only-one-third-of-obamacare-exchange-sign-ups-were-from-the-previously-uninsured/

     

    You seem resistant to truth.  Now why would that be?

     

    As for the White house not having these numbers:  They have them, they won't share them.  How do we know this?  

    Well, do you think that a federal government that saves information such as you making a call to your mother at 11:37 A.M. April 2, 2011, for 1.32 minutes doesn't know if you have health insurance?  That woudl be an odd place to draw the line on information collection.

    Let me also go at it from another direction.  Do you think that somewhere in that 64 page application their is a question, or a inductive/deductive reasoning that indicates that someone was previously uninsured?  You betcha.

    One last approach:  EVERYTHING on the internet is tracked and logged.  Do you really think that we spent half a billion on a website and DIDN'T include tracking of statistics?

    Just keep your head in the sand.

     

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