Poll: Health coverage not federal government's job

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Poll: Health coverage not federal government's job

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to UserName99's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "The majority would be wrong."

    Was the majority wrong in re-electing Obama? Or is majority wrong only in cases where you disagree????? Hahaha....

     


    "The best way to reduce costs is to bring everyone into the risk pool and have government or employer health plans bargaining for lower costs."

     

    Actually the best way is to get American's to stop living like glutonous fat pigs. Obesity is a BIG factor in our health care costs

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    [/QUOTE]


    And yet, even that often requires clinical treatment...

    ...hence the need for access to essential health care services.

     

    There's a good reason why ads say, "consult your doctor before beginning any exercise regimen".  That's because weight loss in conjunction with regular medical treatment has a much, much better chance of success than without.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    For most it requires nothing more than not eating like a gluttonous pig and exercising. I have never consulted a doctor before beginning an exercise program. Major reason for "consult a doctor..." is CYA

    Also, many who are obese HAVE access to doctors. So your "need for access to essential health care services" is nothing more than bull. I have friends who are obese. They have doctors. Those doctors tell them what they need to do to lose weight. They know what they need to do and that they need to do it but don't. 

    For many who are obese it's a CHOICE. That's right...a choice. These people made a choice to not exercise. They made a choice to over-eat. They made a choice to drink too much. They made a choice to eat bad foods. We ALL have control over our actions. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Your anecdotes are fine but hardly reflective of society at-large, i.e., the people we're talking about, i.e., the people who don't have access to basic, affordable medical care.

    That your fat friends have doctors and still remain fat is irrelevant.  That you are disciplined enough to diet and exercise without medical assistance is also irrelevant (and indifferent).

    In fact, yours amounts to little more than romney's elitist "47%" dig, except subbing fat people for poor people.  And in this case, the two groups overlap significantly.

    Yes, some people are lazy and foolish (and some don't care).  But others are just not smart enough to know the difference.  For others, regular exercise is either a luxury or a burden and bad food is the norm.  For someone raised to understand that a gallon of soda is a) acceptable, and b) cheaper than a gallon of milk, they might have little real choice in the matter...whether it's what to eat, where to work, or how to exercise, if possible.

    And then there are other impediments, mainly psychological.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah...suppose my friends are simply unique...

    Let's just agree to disagree on this.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    If you have some numbers, then be my guest.

    I can relate to what you say about 'your friends', because I would wager that you and I both move in rather educated, middle-class, eastern mass., professional-ish circles.  (correct me if wrong, please.)

    But you must understand that huge areas of the country can't relate and simply don't have the access or opportunities we might take for granted.  These are the places where people think fries and ketchup are both vegetables and salads are for fairies and rabbits.

    If you can think about all of the bad information out there, then you shouldn't be surprised when the good information does not get to the people who really need it most.

     

     

     

     

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Poll: Health coverage not federal government's job

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to UserName99's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "The majority would be wrong."

    Was the majority wrong in re-electing Obama? Or is majority wrong only in cases where you disagree????? Hahaha....

     


    "The best way to reduce costs is to bring everyone into the risk pool and have government or employer health plans bargaining for lower costs."

     

    Actually the best way is to get American's to stop living like glutonous fat pigs. Obesity is a BIG factor in our health care costs

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    [/QUOTE]

    Actually, thinking about both points, the best way to reduce cost is to put the bad lifestyle types into their own pool and pay based on the risk inccured.  

    Hey, wait a minute...  that's how the private sector worked BEFORE government got involved.

    If you think cost are going to go down under OBamacare, you are delusional.  Even the CBO has backed away from it's original estimates.

    Health care cost are going up, quality is going down.  This, is unavoidable.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Poll: Health coverage not federal government's job

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to UserName99's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "The majority would be wrong."

    Was the majority wrong in re-electing Obama? Or is majority wrong only in cases where you disagree????? Hahaha....

     


    "The best way to reduce costs is to bring everyone into the risk pool and have government or employer health plans bargaining for lower costs."

     

    Actually the best way is to get American's to stop living like glutonous fat pigs. Obesity is a BIG factor in our health care costs

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    [/QUOTE]


    And yet, even that often requires clinical treatment...

    ...hence the need for access to essential health care services.

     

    There's a good reason why ads say, "consult your doctor before beginning any exercise regimen".  That's because weight loss in conjunction with regular medical treatment has a much, much better chance of success than without.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    For most it requires nothing more than not eating like a gluttonous pig and exercising. I have never consulted a doctor before beginning an exercise program. Major reason for "consult a doctor..." is CYA

    Also, many who are obese HAVE access to doctors. So your "need for access to essential health care services" is nothing more than bull. I have friends who are obese. They have doctors. Those doctors tell them what they need to do to lose weight. They know what they need to do and that they need to do it but don't. 

    For many who are obese it's a CHOICE. That's right...a choice. These people made a choice to not exercise. They made a choice to over-eat. They made a choice to drink too much. They made a choice to eat bad foods. We ALL have control over our actions. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Your anecdotes are fine but hardly reflective of society at-large, i.e., the people we're talking about, i.e., the people who don't have access to basic, affordable medical care.

    That your fat friends have doctors and still remain fat is irrelevant.  That you are disciplined enough to diet and exercise without medical assistance is also irrelevant (and indifferent).

    In fact, yours amounts to little more than romney's elitist "47%" dig, except subbing fat people for poor people.  And in this case, the two groups overlap significantly.

    Yes, some people are lazy and foolish (and some don't care).  But others are just not smart enough to know the difference.  For others, regular exercise is either a luxury or a burden and bad food is the norm.  For someone raised to understand that a gallon of soda is a) acceptable, and b) cheaper than a gallon of milk, they might have little real choice in the matter...whether it's what to eat, where to work, or how to exercise, if possible.

    And then there are other impediments, mainly psychological.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah...suppose my friends are simply unique...

    Let's just agree to disagree on this.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    If you have some numbers, then be my guest.

    I can relate to what you say about 'your friends', because I would wager that you and I both move in rather educated, middle-class, eastern mass., professional-ish circles.  (correct me if wrong, please.)

    But you must understand that huge areas of the country can't relate and simply don't have the access or opportunities we might take for granted.  These are the places where people think fries and ketchup are both vegetables and salads are for fairies and rabbits.

    If you can think about all of the bad information out there, then you shouldn't be surprised when the good information does not get to the people who really need it most.

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't need numbers to know what I'm talking about. I live it. In my job and in my private life with coaching and having been a personal trainer. 

    I have also talked to the doctors I've had over the years about this. 

    We learn in grade school what is good for us. Remember the food pyramid? We all know veggies and fruits are good for us. We all know milk is good for us. We learn it very early on. I've been talking to the kids I coach for over 10 years now. I ask them which foods are good and which are bad. They all know. But bad for is more fun. Who doesn't love ice cream, chocolate chip cookies, soda, chips, etc. I get it.

    I know countless adults that know what good foods to eat but over and over choose bad foods along with not exercising. They tell me they know they should exercise but. As soon as I hear the but I run all the excuses that I've heard over the years through my head. Then it comes...I would exercise BUT, I get home too late, it's too cold, it's too hot, it's too dark out and on and on and on. All bullsh!t of course. I would rather they said...I would exercise except that I'm a lazy fcuk and just don't want to. 

    There is so much info out there on how to live a healthy lifestyle is mind boggling. Funny how people have no problem googling everything else under the sun but somehow....somehow just can't seem to find ANYTHING on eating right and exercising....haha...riiiiiiiight.

    I've lived this way to long to know it's more about laziness than "not being aware". 

    Again, we can agree to disagree.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    My long, thoughtful response was hosed, and I don't have time to repeat.

    Suffice to say you're missing the forest for the trees.  And while I agree with you on the majority of cases, there is still a significant minority that you're either not considering or being obtuse about (purposely or not).

    This is the minority we're talking about...how best to help them help themselves.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Poll: Health coverage not federal government's job

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to UserName99's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "The majority would be wrong."

    Was the majority wrong in re-electing Obama? Or is majority wrong only in cases where you disagree????? Hahaha....

     


    "The best way to reduce costs is to bring everyone into the risk pool and have government or employer health plans bargaining for lower costs."

     

    Actually the best way is to get American's to stop living like glutonous fat pigs. Obesity is a BIG factor in our health care costs

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    [/QUOTE]

    Actually, thinking about both points, the best way to reduce cost is to put the bad lifestyle types into their own pool and pay based on the risk inccured.  

    Hey, wait a minute...  that's how the private sector worked BEFORE government got involved.

    If you think cost are going to go down under OBamacare, you are delusional.  Even the CBO has backed away from it's original estimates.

    Health care cost are going up, quality is going down.  This, is unavoidable.

    [/QUOTE]

    You're an idiot.  That's not how it worked.

    However, that IS how it's going to work going forward...partly due to obamacare.

    What you described is basically how most state-run plans operate...by incentivizing healthy behavior and preventative medicine to minimize costs.

     

     
  6. This post has been removed.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Poll: Health coverage not federal government's job

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to UserName99's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "The majority would be wrong."

    Was the majority wrong in re-electing Obama? Or is majority wrong only in cases where you disagree????? Hahaha....

     


    "The best way to reduce costs is to bring everyone into the risk pool and have government or employer health plans bargaining for lower costs."

     

    Actually the best way is to get American's to stop living like glutonous fat pigs. Obesity is a BIG factor in our health care costs

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    [/QUOTE]

    Actually, thinking about both points, the best way to reduce cost is to put the bad lifestyle types into their own pool and pay based on the risk inccured.  

    Hey, wait a minute...  that's how the private sector worked BEFORE government got involved.

    If you think cost are going to go down under OBamacare, you are delusional.  Even the CBO has backed away from it's original estimates.

    Health care cost are going up, quality is going down.  This, is unavoidable.

    [/QUOTE]

    You're an idiot.  That's not how it worked.

    However, that IS how it's going to work going forward...partly due to obamacare.

    What you described is basically how most state-run plans operate...by incentivizing healthy behavior and preventative medicine to minimize costs.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    That's how it worked BEFORE government invovlement.  You be the idiot.

    Insurance is based on risk, not entitlement.  Or at least it used to be.

     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName99. Show UserName99's posts

    Re: Poll: Health coverage not federal government's job

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    [/QUOTE]

    Huh? Could you explain further how insurers put the "bad lifestyle types" into their own pool? What "bad lifestyles" are you referring to?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Bad lifestyles....y'know, the people that live in certain neighborhoods.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Poll: Health coverage not federal government's job

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to UserName99's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "The majority would be wrong."

    Was the majority wrong in re-electing Obama? Or is majority wrong only in cases where you disagree????? Hahaha....

     


    "The best way to reduce costs is to bring everyone into the risk pool and have government or employer health plans bargaining for lower costs."

     

    Actually the best way is to get American's to stop living like glutonous fat pigs. Obesity is a BIG factor in our health care costs

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    [/QUOTE]

    Actually, thinking about both points, the best way to reduce cost is to put the bad lifestyle types into their own pool and pay based on the risk inccured.  

    Hey, wait a minute...  that's how the private sector worked BEFORE government got involved.

    If you think cost are going to go down under OBamacare, you are delusional.  Even the CBO has backed away from it's original estimates.

    Health care cost are going up, quality is going down.  This, is unavoidable.

    [/QUOTE]

    You're an idiot.  That's not how it worked.

    However, that IS how it's going to work going forward...partly due to obamacare.

    What you described is basically how most state-run plans operate...by incentivizing healthy behavior and preventative medicine to minimize costs.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    That's how it worked BEFORE government invovlement.  You be the idiot.

    Insurance is based on risk, not entitlement.  Or at least it used to be.

    [/QUOTE]

    No, it really didn't.

    Don't believe me.  Ask pink.

     

     

     
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  12. This post has been removed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Poll: Health coverage not federal government's job

    [/QUOTE]


    You choose to not understand the import of the words and ideas you use.  That is why you are absurd.

    And to answer your question: taxes pay to support the nation's wants and needs.  Pretty basic concept.  No surprise you don't understand it.

    [/QUOTE]

    I find your non response to be absurd.
    I understand but you are afraid to answer the most basic question..

    Who is subsidizing who and at what cost ?

    You may not know, that's understandable but surely there is accountability.

    One element in cost control is to know this and not just blindly take the governments abstract and self serving answers.

    [/QUOTE]

    You just don't understand.  It is a lack of thinking on your part.  Excepting children and those that are institutionalized, we all pay taxes of some sort.  We all support each other. Some need more help than others and they get extra. Some pay extra to make this happen.  You can look up the budgets for the nation, the state and the town to see what is spent where. You can look up income tax rates to see who pays extra. It is all pretty basic and has been going on for close to a century.

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Poll: Health coverage not federal government's job

    In response to NO MO O's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Reubenhop's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    [/QUOTE]


    You choose to not understand the import of the words and ideas you use.  That is why you are absurd.

    And to answer your question: taxes pay to support the nation's wants and needs.  Pretty basic concept.  No surprise you don't understand it.

    [/QUOTE]

    I find your non response to be absurd.
    I understand but you are afraid to answer the most basic question..

    Who is subsidizing who and at what cost ?

    You may not know, that's understandable but surely there is accountability.

    One element in cost control is to know this and not just blindly take the governments abstract and self serving answers.

    [/QUOTE]

    You just don't understand.  It is a lack of thinking on your part.  Excepting children and those that are institutionalized, we all pay taxes of some sort.  We all support each other. Some need more help than others and they get extra. Some pay extra to make this happen.  You can look up the budgets for the nation, the state and the town to see what is spent where. You can look up income tax rates to see who pays extra. It is all pretty basic and has been going on for close to a century.

    [/QUOTE]


    Sir,

    I didn't ever say excepting anything.

    I also don't debate who has needs and who doesn't (by the official govt standard)

    I'm sure you would agree that this is good information for the public to know and understand. I imagine the hard working Americans that will be 'contributing' more due to the Obamacare TAX deserve to know where this new tax money goes and how it is being spent.   

    I think it's basic good management to know where money comes from... and specifically where it goes.  Spending IS the problem.

     

    Maybe Barry thinks the middle class people who pay more don't care or he sees advantage in staying in the shadows.

    The question stands.

    Who is subsidizing who and at what cost ?

    [/QUOTE]


    Apparently you are a parrot good for nothing except repeating the same phrase over and over.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Poll: Health coverage not federal government's job

    In response to Reubenhop's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    [/QUOTE]


    Social security is done better.

     

    It IS? Really? SS most likely won't be around by the time I'm 65. You call that better?

     

    Education is done better.

     

    Really? Take private school education over public school education any day of the week. 

     

    Infrastructure is done better.

     

    Which is done using private companies in regards to building roads and bridges etc. You really want a DPW doing major work? Good luck with that.

    [/QUOTE]

    Think about it.

    Privatization of social security?  No way people will accept that kind of risk.  

    Private schools do not serve the needs of all children so it is no real answer.

    And do you really want the roads and bridges owned and operated by private companies?

    [/QUOTE]

    Privatization of social security?  Let me decide with my money.  I'll take my money now and let the feds keep my employeers portion if I could.  

    Private schools do not serve the needs of all children so it is no real answer.  Public schools are failing to meet the needs of too many children; Mass doesn't even make hte top 10 states for graduation.

    And do you really want the roads and bridges owned and operated by private companies?  Yes, that would be better then what we have now and where it has been implemented; maintenance has been vastly improved and the quality of hte facilities are superior.

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Poll: Health coverage not federal government's job

    [/QUOTE]

     

    Privatization of social security?  Let me decide with my money.  I'll take my money now and let the feds keep my employeers portion if I could.  

    Private schools do not serve the needs of all children so it is no real answer.  Public schools are failing to meet the needs of too many children; Mass doesn't even make hte top 10 states for graduation.

    And do you really want the roads and bridges owned and operated by private companies?  Yes, that would be better then what we have now and where it has been implemented; maintenance has been vastly improved and the quality of hte facilities are superior.

    [/QUOTE]

    Pretty limited thinking.  

    You want control of your retirement and can handle the result?  Maybe.  But unexpected things happen (like illness or markey crahes) and certainly not all people are in the same financial boat as you.

    Public schools at least have a goal to attend to the needs of all children. Private schools cannot and will not.  And Massachsetts has high standards of learning which explains why graduation rates are sometimes lower.  Try Mississippi with low standards and worse graduation rates.

    And you want to be charged by a private entity every time you use their road or bridge?  You don't see a problem with that?

    Point is we tried a privatized version of all these things and we changed to a government based system because ... the profit model did not serve the needs of all the people adequately.  Get with this century please.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Poll: Health coverage not federal government's job

    [/QUOTE]


    Privatization of social security?  No way people will accept that kind of risk.

    Who said anything about privatization? You claimed "SS is done better". Given the state it's in I would say that that isn't the case.

    Private schools do not serve the needs of all children so it is no real answer.

    Again, you simply said "education is done better". Compared to private school education public school is NOT done better. Now, if you want to argue that public school serves the needs of more children than private school then you'd be right. But that's a different argument

     

    And do you really want the roads and bridges owned and operated by private companies?

    Again, who said anything about owning and operating roads and bridges. I'm more concerned that roads and bridges are built and fixed correctly..........which is done by PRIVATE companies. Do you really want DPW crews fixing bridges? Good luck with that.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Social security is either private or public based.  You can complain about how the government handles it, but the alternative is not viable as an option.  

    Private schools are fine, but they are not "better" except to that population of elite kids it serves. They cannot and will not serve the needs of the general population.  Public schools are "better" because all kids can get an education.  And focused kids do well in both venues.  I went to private school and my kids went to public, we are all doing well.

    And as to roads and bridges, obviously private contractors do most of the work, but the government oversees the projects and insures their continued availablity and viability for the population.

    I think we agree more on this than we disagree.  You need the government to meet a lot of these social needs and you complain when it doesn't meet expectations. But at least it has the power to try to achieve the goals presented. 

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Poll: Health coverage not federal government's job

    Well the only health care coverage the Feds are providing is medicare and medicaid - even with Obamacare. 

    I don't know about anyone else, but I currently get my Health insurance from my employer.  They give me a choice of 3 plans and I pick the one I want.  We have meetings and training to explain to people about the 3 plans.

    The 3 plans are selected by the HR department.  The people in HR who select the plans are trained to do this.  They sift through countless plans by numerous providers and settle on 3.

    That's what I want my elderly parents doing.  That's what I want my mom who can barely operate her answering machine to have to do - sift through hundreds of health care plans to pick the one that best meets her needs.  Yep, no chance of fly by night Health Insurance providers taking advantage of seniors.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Poll: Health coverage not federal government's job

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Apparently you are a parrot good for nothing except repeating the same phrase over and over.

    [/QUOTE]

    The answer is rhetorical. We both know it.

    And you my friend refuse to state the obvious for well understood reasons.

    You protect this country being the welfare state and the worlds human trash can... all at the expense of hard working Americans.

    It is not sustainable. No amount of tax increases can bear this. 

    It is not affordable and never will be

    It is purely political to foster government dependency and Democratic voters

    It contributes to the eventual economic collapse of the country... and maybe the world.

     

    I'm sure that if you were in financial dire.. you would NOT spend on things you can't afford.

    Have a nice day fellow comrade.

    [/QUOTE]


    You are apparently a selfish individual who cares nothing of other people.  They are just so much "trash" to you.  That is no way to live a life.  With such an attitude you will never have a "nice" day.

     
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