Possible compromise on immigration reform takes shape

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Possible compromise on immigration reform takes shape

     

    So why no talk about the immigation proposal?  The crux of the issue are the four pillars that are noted at the end.  I’m encouraged by the bi-partisan action and I support moving forward on the four pillars of the plan.  A path to citizenship is a tough pill to swallow for those here illegally.  I would have preferred some other options; such as legal status but no direct path to citizenship, as a direct path rewards illegal behavior.  But I’m a pragmatist and we need to deal with this and remove immigration as a wedge issue in our country.

     Full link for those interested, I deleted half of the story in my post. 

     

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/28/politics/immigration-reform/index.html

    Possible compromise on immigration reform takes shape

     

     

    Washington (CNN) -- Millions of undocumented immigrants would get immediate but provisional status to live and work in America under a compromise plan proposed Monday by a bipartisan group of eight senators.

     

    While temporarily removing legal uncertainty for the nation's 11 million undocumented immigrants, the senators' outline also called for strengthening border controls, improved monitoring of visitors and cracking down on hiring undocumented workers. Only after those steps occurred could the undocumented immigrants already in the country begin the process of getting permanent residence -- green cards -- as a step toward citizenship, the senators told a news conference.

     

    "They would no longer be deported, provided they don't have a criminal record. They would no longer be harassed, they would be allowed to stay here and work," said Democratic Sen. Chuck Schumer of New York in describing the immediate impact of the framework if crafted into legislation and enacted.

    The outline for a possible immigration bill reflects a new willingness by mainstream Republicans to compromise following their party's defeat in November, when President Barack Obama got strong backing from Latino voters.

     

    House Speaker John Boehner's office was noncommittal, saying he looked forward to learning more about the senators' plan.

    A similar effort on immigration is said to be under way in the House, involving a group of Republicans and Democrats.

    Two senior House Democratic sources briefed on the effort told CNN the group was working to release some sort of outline of its plan soon, possibly as early as this week, but concede "they are not as far along as the Senate." Like the Senate framework, the House plan will include a path to citizenship, but details of how that will work are still being discussed.

     

    Meanwhile, a litany of left-leaning advocacy groups spoke out on the senators' plan, praising it as a good first step but cautioning against harming the rights of workers.

     

    "The people of this country are ready for us to be one country again without second-class people being mistreated simply because they lack paper even though they are already contributing to our economy and our tax system," noted NAACP President Ben Jealous.

    Democratic senators backing the plan include Schumer, Dick Durbin of Illinois, Robert Menendez of New Jersey, and Michael Bennet of Colorado. On the Republican side, McCain and Rubio were joined by Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Jeff Flake of Arizona.

     

    The eight senators based their framework on four "pillars," described as:

     

    -- A "tough but fair" path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants already living in the United States, but only after bolstering the nation's border security;

    -- Overhauling the country's legal immigration system, including attaching green cards to advanced degrees in science, technology, engineering, or math from U.S. universities;

    -- Establishing an employment verification system that holds employers accountable for hiring undocumented workers;

    -- Creating a guest-worker program for positions that Americans are either unable or unwilling to fill.

     

    A source familiar with how the eight senators came up with the plan told CNN that Graham called Schumer after the November vote to restart work on an immigration bill that broke down in 2010.

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Possible compromise on immigration reform takes shape

    Marco Rubio is taking a huge political risk.

    The bottom line is, is the President serious about compromise, or will he pull the rug out under Rubio and the Republicans toward his  goal of dividing and destroying his political opponents? 

    Obama's political history leads one to believe the "divide and destroy" tactic will win out for the President.

    Obama will blame the GOP for his failure to get immigration reform and campiagn non-stop in 2014.

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Possible compromise on immigration reform takes shape

    Four posts and not one on substance; addressing the four pillars of the proposal.

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from macnh1. Show macnh1's posts

    Re: Possible compromise on immigration reform takes shape

    we are all citizens of the world, let everybody in....at this point i pay so much in taxes and support so many people that it doesnt matter..

    elections have consequences....i think illegals should be given free room and board at the homes of Obama supporters....

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Possible compromise on immigration reform takes shape

    In response to NO MO O's comment:

    Sorry Joe, I lack trust.

    I agree that something needs to be done but unless there is serious intent to stop the daily bleeding of illegals into the country then I find it difficult to think that this is nothing but a voter purchase with the exorbitant costs of bigger govt.

     

    I don't have a problem with the goals. I do have an issue whether it will work the way it's being sold to us.  



    I'm with you.  I would like the situation resolved, and don't have a problem in general with good, hardworking people being brought into a non-illegal status.  I might also add that I have no faith in any promises, proposals, or supposed hard lines the politicians are drawing.  Their track record on this stuff is horrible.  

    However, the problem is much more dire than all the wonderful stories about kids in school and hard working parents that have one problem, that they are here illegally.  That is not reflective of the situation.  A full third of our prision beds are occupied by illegals. 40% of illegals are on some sort of means-tested entitlement.  That's just TWO datapoints on the dark side of this issue.

    When people are really serious about clamping down the border, deporting those who cause trouble while they are here, and get them the heck off of entitlements ( I mean, really, think about it:  people who are not even here legally get entitlements?  On what planet does that make sense?).  When these issues are addressed, then we can start to have an honest, constructive appraoch. 

     

    until then, it is politicians doing you know what down our backs and tellign us it's raining.

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Possible compromise on immigration reform takes shape

    In response to NO MO O's comment:

    Obama?... Compromise ??

     

    I never heard those words together.. except in a campaign.

    Fearless leader is already blinking on increased border security provisions.

    Obviously the Messiah wants as many illegals to flood our country as it buys Democratic vote with our hard earned money.

    What a complete fraud he is.



    Except that illegal crossings are down, and the border is more secure than ever.

    Slurring your talking points again, eh...?

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Possible compromise on immigration reform takes shape

    On the other hand, it's refreshing to hear Sen. McCain acknowledge the one-and-only reason for the GOP going ahead with this:

    Votes.

    GOP needs more votes.

    Got to give it up for that kind of naked, wrinkly honesty.

     

     

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Possible compromise on immigration reform takes shape

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     



    I'm with you.  I would like the situation resolved, and don't have a problem in general with good, hardworking people being brought into a non-illegal status.  I might also add that I have no faith in any promises, proposals, or supposed hard lines the politicians are drawing.  Their track record on this stuff is horrible.  

     

    However, the problem is much more dire than all the wonderful stories about kids in school and hard working parents that have one problem, that they are here illegally.  That is not reflective of the situation.  A full third of our prision beds are occupied by illegals. 40% of illegals are on some sort of means-tested entitlement.  That's just TWO datapoints on the dark side of this issue.

    When people are really serious about clamping down the border, deporting those who cause trouble while they are here, and get them the heck off of entitlements ( I mean, really, think about it:  people who are not even here legally get entitlements?  On what planet does that make sense?).  When these issues are addressed, then we can start to have an honest, constructive appraoch. 

     

    until then, it is politicians doing you know what down our backs and tellign us it's raining.



    Those are two datapoints that are wrong.  I've seen a figure of 25% in federal prisons.  I have seen 30% in California prisons.  But that is no where near 40% of ALL prisons.  And the 40% figure for entitlements is way off.  Illegals are excluded from the vast majority of entitlement programs.  But do try to prove your "facts".

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Possible compromise on immigration reform takes shape

    In response to Reubenhop's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     



    I'm with you.  I would like the situation resolved, and don't have a problem in general with good, hardworking people being brought into a non-illegal status.  I might also add that I have no faith in any promises, proposals, or supposed hard lines the politicians are drawing.  Their track record on this stuff is horrible.  

     

    However, the problem is much more dire than all the wonderful stories about kids in school and hard working parents that have one problem, that they are here illegally.  That is not reflective of the situation.  A full third of our prision beds are occupied by illegals. 40% of illegals are on some sort of means-tested entitlement.  That's just TWO datapoints on the dark side of this issue.

    When people are really serious about clamping down the border, deporting those who cause trouble while they are here, and get them the heck off of entitlements ( I mean, really, think about it:  people who are not even here legally get entitlements?  On what planet does that make sense?).  When these issues are addressed, then we can start to have an honest, constructive appraoch. 

     

    until then, it is politicians doing you know what down our backs and tellign us it's raining.

     



    Those are two datapoints that are wrong.  I've seen a figure of 25% in federal prisons.  I have seen 30% in California prisons.  But that is no where near 40% of ALL prisons.  And the 40% figure for entitlements is way off.  Illegals are excluded from the vast majority of entitlement programs.  But do try to prove your "facts".

     



    Here are two facts: Obama's own relatives Auntie Zenuiti and Uncle Omar...Both were illegals , under specific court orders to leave the country, yet Auntie Z. got public housing for life, supposedly not available to illegals...shocking, isnt it? Uncle Omar had a drivers license and a SS number...

    But of course this is only an "anecdote" per Governor Patrick...

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Possible compromise on immigration reform takes shape

    More facts:

    "Census Bureau data reveals that most U.S. families headed by illegal immigrants use taxpayer-funded welfare programs on behalf of their American-born anchor babies.Even before the recession, immigrant households with children used welfare programs at consistently higher rates than natives, according to the extensive census data collected and analyzed by a nonpartisanWashington D.C. group dedicated to researching legal and illegal immigration in the U.S. The results, published this month in a lengthy report, are hardly surprising.Basically, the majority of households across the country benefitting from publicly-funded welfare programs are headed by immigrants, both legal and illegal. States where immigrant households with children have the highest welfare use rates are Arizona (62%), Texas, California and New York with 61% each and Pennsylvania(59%).The study focused on eight major welfare programs that cost the government $517 billion the year they were examined. They include Supplemental Security Income (SSI) for the disabled, Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF), a nutritional program known as Women, Infants and Children (WIC), food stamps, free/reduced school lunch, public housing and health insurance for the poor (Medicaid).Food assistance and Medicaid are the programs most commonly used by illegal immigrants, mainly on behalf of their American-born children who get automatic citizenship."

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Possible compromise on immigration reform takes shape

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    On the other hand, it's refreshing to hear Sen. McCain acknowledge the one-and-only reason for the GOP going ahead with this:

    Votes.

    GOP needs more votes.

    Got to give it up for that kind of naked, wrinkly honesty.

     

     



    Yes the GOP has discovered that they are on the wrong side of the demographics.

    So for the thinking side of the GOP they know its evolve or die.  I think fighting for free enterpise over big government is more important to the future of the country then some social positions that only represent a growing minority.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Possible compromise on immigration reform takes shape

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:

    I'm all for rewarding people for illegal behavior. Isn't that what makes this such a great country?!



    It's partly what this country was founded upon.  Rich, white slave/property owners who didn't want to pay their taxes.

    But except for the actual crossing of the border, the vast majority of undocumented immigrants mind their own business, work hard, and play by the rules.

    Didn't you notice one particular group singled out in the proposal - agricultural workers...?  That's not an accident.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Possible compromise on immigration reform takes shape

    In response to NO MO O's comment:

    Illegals are excluded from the vast majority of entitlement programs. RIGHTTTTTTTTTT !

     

    Without a very big wall and land mines.. the bleeding of the American taxpayer will only GROW.

    We will be rewarding them for breaking our laws.

    What a shame for all the people who went through the process correctly, sometimes taking years? Where is their equity?

    When did this country become the worlds human trash can ?

    Name any country in history that did not protect it's borders against invaders (The French are... well... French)



    Prove that illegals have full access to government entitlements.  No mindless rants.  Actual proof.

    And we are a nation of immigrants.  Contrary to your nativist prejudice, we take the best people from other lands.  It takes considerable courage to come here and considerable skill to survive and persevere.  I bet you are from immigrant stock yourself.  See your self as the descendant of "human trash"?

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Possible compromise on immigration reform takes shape

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    On the other hand, it's refreshing to hear Sen. McCain acknowledge the one-and-only reason for the GOP going ahead with this:

    Votes.

    GOP needs more votes.

    Got to give it up for that kind of naked, wrinkly honesty.

     

     

     



    Yes the GOP has discovered that they are on the wrong side of the demographics.

     

    So for the thinking side of the GOP they know its evolve or die.  I think fighting for free enterpise over big government is more important to the future of the country then some social positions that only represent a growing minority.



    It's not just a social issue.  Immigration reform is first and foremost an economic issue...one of the most important ones we've got.

    Make no mistake.  So-called "free enterprise" is behind this all the way.

     

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Possible compromise on immigration reform takes shape

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:

    I'm all for rewarding people for illegal behavior. Isn't that what makes this such a great country?!



    It would easily take two trillion, likely more, to arrest, feed/jail, prosecute, and deport 8 million people.

     

    It simply isn't an option.

    But if you want to avoid the actual reality of it by abstracting to flaccid nonsense like "rewarding people for illegal behavior", well, you can cry it out in your room while the grownups deal with the matter.

     



    Sorry for calling it what it is.

     

     



    $375K per deportation that's most likely overstated, but even at $37K or $3.7K, that's real money at $300B or $30B.  To put it in perspective the big dig cost $15B and a new Gerald Ford Class Air Craft Carrier with air wing is about $10B.

    There is an element of rewarding people for illegal behavior which is why I'd prefer to see legal status awarded but not citizenship.  But bottom line we need to deal with the problem just like we did during the Reagan years; hopefully this time we emplore our elected officials to hold the line for all four pillars including the security and enforcement.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Possible compromise on immigration reform takes shape

    In response to 12-Angry-Men's comment:

    Heh, heh, heh...funny how the wingnuts were against any such immigration reform proposals passing but now are afraid that such proposals won't get passed.

    Ya can't make this shiat up.....



    Well, apparently you are making this up.

    The politicians, both sides of the aisle,  have ALWAYS been for amnesty, save a rare few.  They got shut down last time by the people.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Possible compromise on immigration reform takes shape

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    On the other hand, it's refreshing to hear Sen. McCain acknowledge the one-and-only reason for the GOP going ahead with this:

    Votes.

    GOP needs more votes.

    Got to give it up for that kind of naked, wrinkly honesty.

     

     

     



    Yes the GOP has discovered that they are on the wrong side of the demographics.

     

    So for the thinking side of the GOP they know its evolve or die.  I think fighting for free enterpise over big government is more important to the future of the country then some social positions that only represent a growing minority.

     



    It's not just a social issue.  Immigration reform is first and foremost an economic issue...one of the most important ones we've got.

     

    Make no mistake.  So-called "free enterprise" is behind this all the way.

     

     



    The economic recovery is a huge issue but its not determined by a guest worker program.  I do understand that the guest worker program is something that the GOP has wanted for sometime; as it is especially important to the southern agricultural states and their products importantance to the whole US.

     
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