Illegals are excluded from the vast majority of entitlement programs. RIGHTTTTTTTTTT !

Without a very big wall and land mines.. the bleeding of the American taxpayer will only GROW.

We will be rewarding them for breaking our laws.

What a shame for all the people who went through the process correctly, sometimes taking years? Where is their equity?

When did this country become the worlds human trash can ?

Name any country in history that did not protect it's borders against invaders (The French are... well... French)

In response to MattyScornD's comment:

On the other hand, it's refreshing to hear Sen. McCain acknowledge the one-and-only reason for the GOP going ahead with this:

Votes.

GOP needs more votes.

Got to give it up for that kind of naked, wrinkly honesty.

Yes the GOP has discovered that they are on the wrong side of the demographics.

So for the thinking side of the GOP they know its evolve or die.  I think fighting for free enterpise over big government is more important to the future of the country then some social positions that only represent a growing minority.

In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:

It would easily take two trillion, likely more, to arrest, feed/jail, prosecute, and deport 8 million people.

It simply isn't an option.

But if you want to avoid the actual reality of it by abstracting to flaccid nonsense like "rewarding people for illegal behavior", well, you can cry it out in your room while the grownups deal with the matter.

Sorry for calling it what it is.

Heh, heh, heh...funny how the wingnuts were against any such immigration reform proposals passing but now are afraid that such proposals won't get passed.

Ya can't make this shiat up.....

In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

In response to MattyScornD's comment:

On the other hand, it's refreshing to hear Sen. McCain acknowledge the one-and-only reason for the GOP going ahead with this:

Votes.

GOP needs more votes.

Got to give it up for that kind of naked, wrinkly honesty.

Yes the GOP has discovered that they are on the wrong side of the demographics.

So for the thinking side of the GOP they know its evolve or die.  I think fighting for free enterpise over big government is more important to the future of the country then some social positions that only represent a growing minority.

It's not just a social issue.  Immigration reform is first and foremost an economic issue...one of the most important ones we've got.

Make no mistake.  So-called "free enterprise" is behind this all the way.

In response to NO MO O's comment:

Illegals are excluded from the vast majority of entitlement programs. RIGHTTTTTTTTTT !

Without a very big wall and land mines.. the bleeding of the American taxpayer will only GROW.

We will be rewarding them for breaking our laws.

What a shame for all the people who went through the process correctly, sometimes taking years? Where is their equity?

When did this country become the worlds human trash can ?

Name any country in history that did not protect it's borders against invaders (The French are... well... French)

Prove that illegals have full access to government entitlements.  No mindless rants.  Actual proof.

And we are a nation of immigrants.  Contrary to your nativist prejudice, we take the best people from other lands.  It takes considerable courage to come here and considerable skill to survive and persevere.  I bet you are from immigrant stock yourself.  See your self as the descendant of "human trash"?

In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

Actually it's most likely understated by an awful lot. You just don't know the costs, nor the immigration system.

A few large costs:

1. 2-3 years of imprisonment, while the person is held and exhausts appeal. (45k/yr, as per below) = 90-135,000.

2. Appointment of attorney to represent person for immigration hearings and appeal of decisions. (~10-20k avg I would estimate)

3. New facilities to house EIGHT MILLION new inmates. Roughly 2,300,000 people are incarcerated. So we would need to build FOUR TIMES as many facilities as are now maintainedat 78 billion/year, but we'd have to do it from scratch. Let that sink in.

4. Hiring: Prison guards, doctors, cooks, ICE agents - everyone involved in arresting,moving,housing the illegals. (A typical police offier is about 50k, not counting benefits/overtime).

5. Buses/trains - something to ship all these people out.

And that's just deportation. There are further costs:

6. Either the cost of completely shutting out new entrants, or a repeat of 1-5 per re-entrant.

7. If successful, the economic lost sunk cost of all those people hired to herd out the illegals - a job for which there would be zero demand if the effort succeeded, leaving those people wtihout jobs --> Welfar, social services, etc. to get them back on their feet.

8. Increasing agricultural losses as farmers discover they cannot afford to pay the amount that it would take to attract Americans to do the work previously done by farmers. Lost crops, etc.

9. Lost sunk cost of expanding our prison capacity by 400%, all resulting buildings being useless if deportation effort succeds.

Anyone who thinks that complete deportation is a viable option is lying or is insane.

Year of imprisonment: $45,000 or so, depending on where.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/11/chart-one-year-of-prison-costs-more-than-one-year-at-princeton/247629/

http://www.lao.ca.gov/laoapp/laomenus/sections/crim_justice/6_cj_inmatecost.aspx?catid=3

In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

Actually it's most likely understated by an awful lot. You just don't know the costs, nor the immigration system.

A few large costs:

1. 2-3 years of imprisonment, while the person is held and exhausts appeal. (45k/yr, as per below) = 90-135,000.

2. Appointment of attorney to represent person for immigration hearings and appeal of decisions. (~10-20k avg I would estimate)

3. New facilities to house EIGHT MILLION new inmates. Roughly 2,300,000 people are incarcerated. So we would need to build FOUR TIMES as many facilities as are now maintainedat 78 billion/year, but we'd have to do it from scratch. Let that sink in.

4. Hiring: Prison guards, doctors, cooks, ICE agents - everyone involved in arresting,moving,housing the illegals. (A typical police offier is about 50k, not counting benefits/overtime).

5. Buses/trains - something to ship all these people out.

And that's just deportation. There are further costs:

6. Either the cost of completely shutting out new entrants, or a repeat of 1-5 per re-entrant.

7. If successful, the economic lost sunk cost of all those people hired to herd out the illegals - a job for which there would be zero demand if the effort succeeded, leaving those people wtihout jobs --> Welfar, social services, etc. to get them back on their feet.

8. Increasing agricultural losses as farmers discover they cannot afford to pay the amount that it would take to attract Americans to do the work previously done by farmers. Lost crops, etc.

9. Lost sunk cost of expanding our prison capacity by 400%, all resulting buildings being useless if deportation effort succeds.

Anyone who thinks that complete deportation is a viable option is lying or is insane.

Year of imprisonment: $45,000 or so, depending on where.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/11/chart-one-year-of-prison-costs-more-than-one-year-at-princeton/247629/

http://www.lao.ca.gov/laoapp/laomenus/sections/crim_justice/6_cj_inmatecost.aspx?catid=3

And the xenophobic wingnuts reveal themselves yet again.

From the first line of their post...

"...57 percent of households headed by an immigrant (legal and illegal)..."

From then on every bullet point is intentionally xenophobic.

Rather than say these Americans (legal immigrants), they stick with the dog whistle of 'immigrant' rather than citizen or American.

Rather than seperate the Americans from the illegal aliens, they obfuscate the numbers in order to appease the racist wingnut base.

Pathetic, in order to get the numbers they wanted they had to lump Americans in with illegal immigrants to try and make their obviously racist, bigoted point.

And the xenophobic wingnuts reveal themselves yet again.

From the first line of their post...

"...57 percent of households headed by an immigrant (legal and illegal)..."

From then on every bullet point is intentionally xenophobic.

Rather than say these Americans (legal immigrants), they stick with the dog whistle of 'immigrant' rather than citizen or American.

Rather than seperate the Americans from the illegal aliens, they obfuscate the numbers in order to appease the racist wingnut base.

Pathetic, in order to get the numbers they wanted they had to lump Americans in with illegal immigrants to try and make their obviously racist, bigoted point.

Skeeter hates numbers. There's, like, too many of them.

-- A "tough but fair" path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants already living in the United States, but only after bolstering the nation's border security;

-- Overhauling the country's legal immigration system, including attaching green cards to advanced degrees in science, technology, engineering, or math from U.S. universities;

-- Establishing an employment verification system that holds employers accountable for hiring undocumented workers;

-- Creating a guest-worker program for positions that Americans are either unable or unwilling to fill.

This is fine except the first item.

Our political leaders need to show respect for US citizenship. If anyone can come here illegally and then be given amnesty, then what good is citizenship?

So for the 11 million that are here illegally, let them apply for guest worker status or go back where they came from and apply for legal citizenship. 

There does not have to be some kind of expensive mass deportation. That is an absurd suggestion given by extremists that reject a rational solution. The first step to getting illegals to self-deport is to go after employers of illegals. These criminals need to be given jail time and serious fines. Responsibility should be at a personal level just like it is for financial filings of public companies. Ford gets caught hirining illegals, some executive is going to jail.

THat will dry up the market for scab illegals to take jobs. WIll food cost more? Maybe so. Better to have a legal resident get a job at a decent wage then to employ illegals as slaves so we can get food a little cheaper. 

In response to MattyScornD's comment:

In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

In response to MattyScornD's comment:

On the other hand, it's refreshing to hear Sen. McCain acknowledge the one-and-only reason for the GOP going ahead with this:

Votes.

GOP needs more votes.

Got to give it up for that kind of naked, wrinkly honesty.

Yes the GOP has discovered that they are on the wrong side of the demographics.

So for the thinking side of the GOP they know its evolve or die.  I think fighting for free enterpise over big government is more important to the future of the country then some social positions that only represent a growing minority.

It's not just a social issue.  Immigration reform is first and foremost an economic issue...one of the most important ones we've got.

Make no mistake.  So-called "free enterprise" is behind this all the way.

The economic recovery is a huge issue but its not determined by a guest worker program.  I do understand that the guest worker program is something that the GOP has wanted for sometime; as it is especially important to the southern agricultural states and their products importantance to the whole US.

In response to Newtster's comment:

-- A "tough but fair" path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants already living in the United States, but only after bolstering the nation's border security;

-- Overhauling the country's legal immigration system, including attaching green cards to advanced degrees in science, technology, engineering, or math from U.S. universities;

-- Establishing an employment verification system that holds employers accountable for hiring undocumented workers;

-- Creating a guest-worker program for positions that Americans are either unable or unwilling to fill.

This is fine except the first item.

Our political leaders need to show respect for US citizenship. If anyone can come here illegally and then be given amnesty, then what good is citizenship?

So for the 11 million that are here illegally, let them apply for guest worker status or go back where they came from and apply for legal citizenship. 

There does not have to be some kind of expensive mass deportation. That is an absurd suggestion given by extremists that reject a rational solution. The first step to getting illegals to self-deport is to go after employers of illegals. These criminals need to be given jail time and serious fines. Responsibility should be at a personal level just like it is for financial filings of public companies. Ford gets caught hirining illegals, some executive is going to jail.

THat will dry up the market for scab illegals to take jobs. WIll food cost more? Maybe so. Better to have a legal resident get a job at a decent wage then to employ illegals as slaves so we can get food a little cheaper. 

This is why I don't trust the politicians to do the right thing here.  Citizens, i.e. those of us born or assimilated here, are simply the tools that pay for this.

Why is this such a big deal to politicians?  votes.  The republicans ought ot consider that the perfect hispanic candidate, G. Bush, spoke very good spanish, spoke to spanish wspeaking groups often,supported amnesty, wanted to open the border between mexico completely, In fact announced the desire to open the border at the White House with Vincente Fox, on September 10, 2001 (does that date ring a bell?) and he only recieved 40% of the hispanic vote.

This is a complete capitulation to the demcrats on the issue of votes.