Re: The IRS. We Are All To Blame.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: The IRS. We Are All To Blame.

    Not for nothing, but we kind of brought this on ourselves.

    Is there anyone out there who is still confused about what 501(c)3 and 501(c)4 organizations do, or how they were created...?

    Anyone who thought this was a good idea...?  To allow unlimited massive spending - tax-free - on wall-to-wall campaign ads, email blitzes and direct mailers even while (chuckle) these orgs pledge to not support any single candidate?  Really?!? 

    I'm not excusing any behavior outside of the law.  Whoever is responsible should be punished.  I agree with Rand Paul, obtusely, that "heads should roll".

    Nevertheless, the IRS received tens of thousands of tax-exempt requests in 2012 alone.  They SHOULD be scrutinizing these applications...but impartially and to the letter of the law.

    But we allowed this to happen when we rejected any semblance of campaign finance reform - on both sides - and opened the door wide to unchecked rabbles thinly disguised as "social welfare groups" (maybe the only time the term was sought by conservatives instead of vilified).

    Either way, the taxpayers are the ones who got scroooed....

     

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Re: The IRS. We Are All To Blame.

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    Not for nothing, but we kind of brought this on ourselves.

    Is there anyone out there who is still confused about what 501(c)3 and 501(c)4 organizations do, or how they were created...?

    Anyone who thought this was a good idea...?  To allow unlimited massive spending - tax-free - on wall-to-wall campaign ads, email blitzes and direct mailers even while (chuckle) these orgs pledge to not support any single candidate?  Really?!? 

    I'm not excusing any behavior outside of the law.  Whoever is responsible should be punished.  I agree with Rand Paul, obtusely, that "heads should roll".

    Nevertheless, the IRS received tens of thousands of tax-exempt requests in 2012 alone.  They SHOULD be scrutinizing these applications...but impartially and to the letter of the law.

    But we allowed this to happen when we rejected any semblance of campaign finance reform - on both sides - and opened the door wide to unchecked rabbles thinly disguised as "social welfare groups" (maybe the only time the term was sought by conservatives instead of vilified).

    Either way, the taxpayers are the ones who got scroooed....

     

     

     




    Matty..I agree to a point. I don't have any confusion about 501(c)3 and 501(c)4's but I am in a position where I must know this. Most people not in that position are probably confused. I am sure there are a lot of political groups who are trying to masquerade as social welfare organizations in order to gain tax exempt status. I think the IRS is right to scrutinize..but do it fairly because I am sure these groups exists equally on both sides.

     

    I am also disturbed at the high approval rate for tax exempt applications...very disturbed. To me..the types of questions and scrutiny applied to so called conservative groups should be applied to every organization applying for tax exempt status.


    BTW...another thought comes to mind this morning. Social welfare groups are supposed to be apolitical. This means that labels such as liberal or conservative should not immediately come to mind. Peerhaps the lesson in this is don't give your organization a name that is quickly associated with a political movement.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: Re: The IRS. We Are All To Blame.

    Obama should ask Colin Powell to head a group of nonpartisans to investigate the IRS and to come up with recommendations that will help the taxpayers to regain confidence in the neutrality of the IRS .

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Re: The IRS. We Are All To Blame.

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:

    Obama should ask Colin Powell to head a group of nonpartisans to investigate the IRS and to come up with recommendations that will help the taxpayers to regain confidence in the neutrality of the IRS .




    Or...just fire the people involved. I am amazed that hasn't happened yet. I would agree with your suggestion..but we know nothing ever comes of these panel recommendations. The IRS should have been dramatically reformed or restructured years ago.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Re: The IRS. We Are All To Blame.

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    Not for nothing, but we kind of brought this on ourselves.

    Is there anyone out there who is still confused about what 501(c)3 and 501(c)4 organizations do, or how they were created...?

    Anyone who thought this was a good idea...?  To allow unlimited massive spending - tax-free - on wall-to-wall campaign ads, email blitzes and direct mailers even while (chuckle) these orgs pledge to not support any single candidate?  Really?!? 

    I'm not excusing any behavior outside of the law.  Whoever is responsible should be punished.  I agree with Rand Paul, obtusely, that "heads should roll".

    Nevertheless, the IRS received tens of thousands of tax-exempt requests in 2012 alone.  They SHOULD be scrutinizing these applications...but impartially and to the letter of the law.

    But we allowed this to happen when we rejected any semblance of campaign finance reform - on both sides - and opened the door wide to unchecked rabbles thinly disguised as "social welfare groups" (maybe the only time the term was sought by conservatives instead of vilified).

    Either way, the taxpayers are the ones who got scroooed....

     

     



    The law is the law.

    It's implementation through the IRS was politically biased in the direction of favoring the Administration in harrasing it's "enemies", as the president likes to refer to them.  So is anyone surprised by this?  The Axelrod manufactured Obama Presidency has been one of the most partisan political animals ever created.  They are great community organizers and work the grass roots inside and outside of government very effectively.  Is there any surprise that their zeal continues to taint the Administration's decision making and release of facts.  Such as the Benghazi manipulated narrative to follow a campaign theme the GM is alive, Bin Laden is dead and Al Qeada is in shambles which led to the movie riot theme for the Benghazi terrorist attack.

    Is there any surprise that underlings in DOJ and IRS worked to go after enemies of the Adminstration.  The problem here is that it demonstrates incompetence of leadeship in not knowing what's going on or it demonstartes the adage that power corrupts and absolute power absolutely corrupts.  We need hearings to truly understand the problem.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Re: The IRS. We Are All To Blame.

    In response to miscricket's comment:

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:

     

    Obama should ask Colin Powell to head a group of nonpartisans to investigate the IRS and to come up with recommendations that will help the taxpayers to regain confidence in the neutrality of the IRS .

     




    Or...just fire the people involved. I am amazed that hasn't happened yet. I would agree with your suggestion..but we know nothing ever comes of these panel recommendations. The IRS should have been dramatically reformed or restructured years ago.

     



    As per another post a senior IRS Administartor of this group is getting recognition at a western Mass Law School this graduation season.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: Re: The IRS. We Are All To Blame.

    In response to miscricket's comment:

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:

     

    Obama should ask Colin Powell to head a group of nonpartisans to investigate the IRS and to come up with recommendations that will help the taxpayers to regain confidence in the neutrality of the IRS .

     




    Or...just fire the people involved. I am amazed that hasn't happened yet. I would agree with your suggestion..but we know nothing ever comes of these panel recommendations. The IRS should have been dramatically reformed or restructured years ago.

     



    I agreed with you about the firing of people but there is always two side of every story so before any civil servant is fired they need to have their day in court . As for political appointees they should resign .

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: Re: The IRS. We Are All To Blame.

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

    In response to miscricket's comment:

     

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:

     

    Obama should ask Colin Powell to head a group of nonpartisans to investigate the IRS and to come up with recommendations that will help the taxpayers to regain confidence in the neutrality of the IRS .

     




    Or...just fire the people involved. I am amazed that hasn't happened yet. I would agree with your suggestion..but we know nothing ever comes of these panel recommendations. The IRS should have been dramatically reformed or restructured years ago.

     

     



    As per another post a senior IRS Administartor of this group is getting recognition at a western Mass Law School this graduation season.

     




    Joe ... I would hope that person , Lois Lerner, would cancel on her own .

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Re: The IRS. We Are All To Blame.

    The scandal is not about the validity of 501 org.

    It about a govt agency targeting and harassing ONLY 501 orgs of certain political persuasion!

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName99. Show UserName99's posts

    Re: Re: The IRS. We Are All To Blame.

    501(c)(3) — Religious, Educational, Charitable, Scientific, Literary, Testing for Public Safety, to Foster National or International Amateur Sports Competition, or Prevention of Cruelty to Children or Animals Organizations
    501(c)(4) — Civic Leagues, Social Welfare Organizations, and Local Associations of Employees

    I'm glad this is in the news.  Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

    These Tea Party organizations should never have been granted 501 (C) 3 or 4 status, because every single one of them are OVERTLY political.  Same goes for the ones on the left.

    How does a political organization that acts exactly like a third party, makes a point of aligning itself with a major political party, and is dedicated to fielding candidates who proudly call  themselves "Tea Party candidates," and willing takes public credit for winning elections fit into any of the prerequisite categories listed avove?

    Kick them all out!

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Re: The IRS. We Are All To Blame.

    So we're to blame for the ACTIONS of the IRS? I've heard it all now....

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: Re: The IRS. We Are All To Blame.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Re: The IRS. We Are All To Blame.

    In response to UserName99's comment:

    Kick them all out! 




    Kick out Planned Parenthood, PBS, Move on.org and the many many others??

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Re: The IRS. We Are All To Blame.

    In response to UserName99's comment:

     

    501(c)(3) — Religious, Educational, Charitable, Scientific, Literary, Testing for Public Safety, to Foster National or International Amateur Sports Competition, or Prevention of Cruelty to Children or Animals Organizations
    501(c)(4) — Civic Leagues, Social Welfare Organizations, and Local Associations of Employees

    I'm glad this is in the news.  Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

    These Tea Party organizations should never have been granted 501 (C) 3 or 4 status, because every single one of them are OVERTLY political.  Same goes for the ones on the left.

    How does a political organization that acts exactly like a third party, makes a point of aligning itself with a major political party, and is dedicated to fielding candidates who proudly call  themselves "Tea Party candidates," and willing takes public credit for winning elections fit into any of the prerequisite categories listed avove?

    Kick them all out!

     

     



    The problem here is behavior, not law.  But setting that aside, doesn't this point to the whole idea of having profit and non profit organizations so encumbered by regulation?  Might it be better to simply eliminate the concept of non profit, it is archaic. You make money, you are taxed.

     

    as far as campaign finance reform, just get rid of it.  The idea that this type of legislation can be done impartially and in the best interests of the people has not stood the reality test.

    less, not more, is the answer here.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Re: The IRS. We Are All To Blame.

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    Not for nothing, but we kind of brought this on ourselves.

    Is there anyone out there who is still confused about what 501(c)3 and 501(c)4 organizations do, or how they were created...?

    Anyone who thought this was a good idea...?  To allow unlimited massive spending - tax-free - on wall-to-wall campaign ads, email blitzes and direct mailers even while (chuckle) these orgs pledge to not support any single candidate?  Really?!? 

    I'm not excusing any behavior outside of the law.  Whoever is responsible should be punished.  I agree with Rand Paul, obtusely, that "heads should roll".

    Nevertheless, the IRS received tens of thousands of tax-exempt requests in 2012 alone.  They SHOULD be scrutinizing these applications...but impartially and to the letter of the law.

    But we allowed this to happen when we rejected any semblance of campaign finance reform - on both sides - and opened the door wide to unchecked rabbles thinly disguised as "social welfare groups" (maybe the only time the term was sought by conservatives instead of vilified).

    Either way, the taxpayers are the ones who got scroooed....

     



    Matty is 100% correct, we brought this on ourselves. Screwing with the simple perfect First Amendment ,  by empowering government agencies to regulate in the guise of "campaign reform",  inevitably leads to this.

     

    Campaign "reform" is campaign deform. Absent this idiocy, George Soros and the Koch Brothers dont have to hide behind front groups, organizations having to pretend they are charities. Instead of transparency, the campaign finance laws muddy up the waters. 

    Of course, as a good progressive, Matty wants to cure the disease with more of the same virus that caused it..more limits on free speech...against political opponents who may be organized as a corporation...

    Akin to the medieval cure of bleeding the patient to cure him.

    And speaking of medicine, the same 'non-partisan' IRS is enforcing the atrocity known as ObamaCare.  Some will be more equal than others in the issuance of health care from the State, have no doubt. The Wall Street Journal today already has shown the blatant politicization of ObamaCare's implementation.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Re: The IRS. We Are All To Blame.

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:



    Non profit? No. Conservative.

     

     
  17. This post has been removed.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Re: The IRS. We Are All To Blame.

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    Not for nothing, but we kind of brought this on ourselves.

    Is there anyone out there who is still confused about what 501(c)3 and 501(c)4 organizations do, or how they were created...?

    Anyone who thought this was a good idea...?  To allow unlimited massive spending - tax-free - on wall-to-wall campaign ads, email blitzes and direct mailers even while (chuckle) these orgs pledge to not support any single candidate?  Really?!? 

    I'm not excusing any behavior outside of the law.  Whoever is responsible should be punished.  I agree with Rand Paul, obtusely, that "heads should roll".

    Nevertheless, the IRS received tens of thousands of tax-exempt requests in 2012 alone.  They SHOULD be scrutinizing these applications...but impartially and to the letter of the law.

    But we allowed this to happen when we rejected any semblance of campaign finance reform - on both sides - and opened the door wide to unchecked rabbles thinly disguised as "social welfare groups" (maybe the only time the term was sought by conservatives instead of vilified).

    Either way, the taxpayers are the ones who got scroooed....

     



    Matty is 100% correct, we brought this on ourselves. Screwing with the simple perfect First Amendment ,  by empowering government agencies to regulate in the guise of "campaign reform",  inevitably leads to this.

     

    Campaign "reform" is campaign deform. Absent this idiocy, George Soros and the Koch Brothers dont have to hide behind front groups, organizations having to pretend they are charities. Instead of transparency, the campaign finance laws muddy up the waters. 

    Of course, as a good progressive, Matty wants to cure the disease with more of the same virus that caused it..more limits on free speech...against political opponents who may be organized as a corporation...

    Akin to the medieval cure of bleeding the patient to cure him.

    And speaking of medicine, the same 'non-partisan' IRS is enforcing the atrocity known as ObamaCare.  Some will be more equal than others in the issuance of health care from the State, have no doubt. The Wall Street Journal today already has shown the blatant politicization of ObamaCare's implementation.



    Don't worry.  Matty, sister, etc. will all be posting later about how you have no evidence that the IRS or politicians will abuse this sacred responsibility the government has taken upon itself  to manage people's health.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Re: The IRS. We Are All To Blame.

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    Don't worry.  Matty, sister, etc. will all be posting later about how you have no evidence that the IRS or politicians will abuse this sacred responsibility the government has taken upon itself  to manage people's health.


    That's pretty stupid.  ALL humans are corruptible and ultimately self-preserving, whether in a dictatorship or a democracy (or theocracy).

    The fact is that rules were made to broken, and break they shall.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Re: The IRS. We Are All To Blame.

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    The problem here is behavior, not law.  But setting that aside, doesn't this point to the whole idea of having profit and non profit organizations so encumbered by regulation?  Might it be better to simply eliminate the concept of non profit, it is archaic. You make money, you are taxed.


    Sounds great to me.

    Can we start with the churches...?

     

     

     

     

     
  21. This post has been removed.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Re: The IRS. We Are All To Blame.

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:


    Sounds great to me.

    Can we start with the churches...? 




    what start there?

    Just sign a law saying no more govt aid or tax relief to ANY organizations that make money PERIOD!

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Re: The IRS. We Are All To Blame.

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

    The problem here is behavior, not law.  But setting that aside, doesn't this point to the whole idea of having profit and non profit organizations so encumbered by regulation?  Might it be better to simply eliminate the concept of non profit, it is archaic. You make money, you are taxed.

     

     


    Sounds great to me.

    Can we start with the churches...?

     

     

     

     



    Why not start with ALL non profits at the same time? Why your need to single out Church's to be first? Seems rather odd

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: Re: The IRS. We Are All To Blame.

    In response to GreginMeffa's comment:

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:

     

    Obama should ask Colin Powell to head a group of nonpartisans to investigate the IRS and to come up with recommendations that will help the taxpayers to regain confidence in the neutrality of the IRS .

     




    Its much easier to blame Bush.

     

    Again




    I ain't blaming the dubya ....

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Re: The IRS. We Are All To Blame.

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

    The problem here is behavior, not law.  But setting that aside, doesn't this point to the whole idea of having profit and non profit organizations so encumbered by regulation?  Might it be better to simply eliminate the concept of non profit, it is archaic. You make money, you are taxed.

     

     


    Sounds great to me.

    Can we start with the churches...?

     

     Why not start with ALL non profits at the same time? Why your need to single out Church's to be first? Seems rather odd



    Because they've had the longest free ride of anyone, and they're far more numerous.

     

     

     
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