Remembering Tucson...3 years later

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    Remembering Tucson...3 years later

    It is hard to believe that it's been three years since a madman opened fire on a group of people gathered to support  Rep. Gabrielle Giffords outside a supermarket.

    Among those killed was 9 year old Christina- Taylor Green..a little girl who even at her young age had an interest in the way her country was run..had an interest in making a difference. Who knows what kind of amazing things that little girl would have accomplished had Jared Loughner not had the opportunity to gun down 18 people...killing 6 of them and seriously injuring another 12.

    The lives of so many people changed forever on that day. Sadly though..not much has changed in the general society. Since that day in 2011, it seems as though these kinds of mass murders are becoming more and not less common..including the Sandyhook shooting.

    I know I've said these things until I am blue in the face..and perhaps some are sick of hearing it. I support the second amendment..I support a person's right to own a gun to hunt, collect or protect themselves.

    However...I don't want my baby niece to grow up in a world where we essentially live in a military state. I don't want my grandchildren to be born into that kind of world. For the life of me..I don't understand why some comprehensive gun control measures around mental health testing have not been passed. I don't understand how our elected officials cannot find some common ground...something that allows decent, responsible and law abiding citizens to own firearms..but keeps them out of the hands of people who are mentally ill.

    People who support unfettered exercise of the second amendment like to quote the founding fathers...but you cannot tell me with a straight face that our founding fathers would support an unfettered right to bear arms in the face of so many children being murdered at the hands of madmen. I am sure they are rolling over in their graves.

     
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    Re: Remembering Tucson...3 years later

    I am with you on this. I think there are many things that can be done to curb violence without materially effecting 2nd amendment rights. The problem we have is that our political system is dysfunctional and polarized. Politicians use problems, they don't solve them. Rhetoric is heightened and areas of agreement go ignored.

    A result of this is that we have a zillion gun laws for show that do not get enforced. Another result is that sensible actions like you mention around mental illness are not seen as politically useful. So they get ignored. Better to talk about guns, bullets, regulations, NRA and the 2nd amendment - on both sides. That is what gets the activists blood circulating. Solutions?? What do we need that for? Then we have nothing to talk about!

     
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    Re: Remembering Tucson...3 years later

    In response to miscricket's comment:

    It is hard to believe that it's been three years since a madman opened fire on a group of people gathered to support  Rep. Gabrielle Giffords outside a supermarket.

    Among those killed was 9 year old Christina- Taylor Green..a little girl who even at her young age had an interest in the way her country was run..had an interest in making a difference. Who knows what kind of amazing things that little girl would have accomplished had Jared Loughner not had the opportunity to gun down 18 people...killing 6 of them and seriously injuring another 12.

    The lives of so many people changed forever on that day. Sadly though..not much has changed in the general society. Since that day in 2011, it seems as though these kinds of mass murders are becoming more and not less common..including the Sandyhook shooting.

    I know I've said these things until I am blue in the face..and perhaps some are sick of hearing it. I support the second amendment..I support a person's right to own a gun to hunt, collect or protect themselves.

    However...I don't want my baby niece to grow up in a world where we essentially live in a military state. I don't want my grandchildren to be born into that kind of world. For the life of me..I don't understand why some comprehensive gun control measures around mental health testing have not been passed. I don't understand how our elected officials cannot find some common ground...something that allows decent, responsible and law abiding citizens to own firearms..but keeps them out of the hands of people who are mentally ill.

    People who support unfettered exercise of the second amendment like to quote the founding fathers...but you cannot tell me with a straight face that our founding fathers would support an unfettered right to bear arms in the face of so many children being murdered at the hands of madmen. I am sure they are rolling over in their graves.




    100% agree.

    "I support the second amendment..I support a person's right to own a gun to hunt, collect or protect themselves."

    There should be no argument to background checks when it comes to the mental stability of someone owning a gun. Sadly the staunch NRA members will argue this, that is until one of thier own is killed by a mentally unstable person.

    Obviously until that happens, will see more headlines of mass shootings. I pray, they'll never be another Sandy Hook but reality is there very well could be. As heartbreaking as that day and Tuscon, and all the others were it doesn't seem as if we learned a thing.

     

     

     

     
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    Re: Remembering Tucson...3 years later

    In response to 2013soxchamps' comment:

    In response to miscricket's comment:

    It is hard to believe that it's been three years since a madman opened fire on a group of people gathered to support  Rep. Gabrielle Giffords outside a supermarket.

    Among those killed was 9 year old Christina- Taylor Green..a little girl who even at her young age had an interest in the way her country was run..had an interest in making a difference. Who knows what kind of amazing things that little girl would have accomplished had Jared Loughner not had the opportunity to gun down 18 people...killing 6 of them and seriously injuring another 12.

    The lives of so many people changed forever on that day. Sadly though..not much has changed in the general society. Since that day in 2011, it seems as though these kinds of mass murders are becoming more and not less common..including the Sandyhook shooting.

    I know I've said these things until I am blue in the face..and perhaps some are sick of hearing it. I support the second amendment..I support a person's right to own a gun to hunt, collect or protect themselves.

    However...I don't want my baby niece to grow up in a world where we essentially live in a military state. I don't want my grandchildren to be born into that kind of world. For the life of me..I don't understand why some comprehensive gun control measures around mental health testing have not been passed. I don't understand how our elected officials cannot find some common ground...something that allows decent, responsible and law abiding citizens to own firearms..but keeps them out of the hands of people who are mentally ill.

    People who support unfettered exercise of the second amendment like to quote the founding fathers...but you cannot tell me with a straight face that our founding fathers would support an unfettered right to bear arms in the face of so many children being murdered at the hands of madmen. I am sure they are rolling over in their graves.




    100% agree.

    "I support the second amendment..I support a person's right to own a gun to hunt, collect or protect themselves."

    There should be no argument to background checks when it comes to the mental stability of someone owning a gun. Sadly the staunch NRA members will argue this, that is until one of thier own is killed by a mentally unstable person.

    Obviously until that happens, will see more headlines of mass shootings. I pray, they'll never be another Sandy Hook but reality is there very well could be. As heartbreaking as that day and Tuscon, and all the others were it doesn't seem as if we learned a thing.

     

     

     



    +1

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName9. Show UserName9's posts

    Re: Remembering Tucson...3 years later

    Collectively, legal gun owners have failed us by not securing their guns. 

    Most gun violence is a product of legal gun ownership. It is predominantly domestic violence (including murders), suicides and accidents. Most victims of violence are attacked by someone they know -- most often living in the same household. The fraction of people unfortunate enough to live somewhere where illegal guns or random attackers are a problem is small. Even in the US, where shooting rates are so much higher than other countries, gun violence is a relatively small risk. Even within that small risk area, people are more likely to be shot by their legal gun-owning spouse or relative than any other assailant.

    The bottom line is that having a legal gun in the house increases your likelihood of being shot, rather than reducing it. On the counter side, there are nearly no cases of people using legal guns to save themselves from gun violence. The fact is that pulling a gun increases the likelihood that an assailant will shoot you. I can't recall a single story where a legal gun owner has stepped in to stop a massacre. The vast majority of gun massacres were performed with legally owned guns. Even though massacres represent a fraction of gun deaths, it is yet another scenario where gun owner fantasies fail to match reality.

     I don't own one because I don't want to increase my, or my family's chances of being shot.

     
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    Re: Remembering Tucson...3 years later

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to UserName9's comment:

     I can't recall a single story where a legal gun owner has stepped in to stop a massacre.



    Oh there have been such cases. Wasn't there one where a churchlady stopped some guy who was about to shoot people?

    I have to disagree in part. There are cases where legal gun owners use gun to stop violence. They're in the news all the time, and waved around by gun control opponents.

    However, it is also true that "The bottom line is that having a legal gun in the house increases your likelihood of being shot, rather than reducing it" (and increases the chance of a child shooting themselves; and makes suicide easier, etc).

    They aren't mutually exclusive. Guns can be used to save lives. It's just that on balance, a heavily armed society is going to see a lot more gun violence after all. And that's why we have both the most guns per capita and gun violence per capita - we're way past other countries on that front. 

    USA ! USA! USA!



    True but, "gun violence" also includes case of justified gun violence aka defending ones self legally.

    Why is it that states with less retrictive gun laws have less overall violent crime?

     

     
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    Re: Remembering Tucson...3 years later

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:



    You only increase your chances of being shot if you're a moron.



    That may be your opinion, but it doesn't represent reality.  People are shot and killed in their own home daily in this country. 

    Not only do you increase your own chance of being shot, you increase your children's chances of being shot.....I suppose they're morons too?

     

 
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    Re: Remembering Tucson...3 years later

    Guns are not as big a problem as is mental illness.

    We are all mentally ill.

    Some of them are just "advanced cases" , with most people it's not so obvious.

    We are a defective species. We will always have problems....and as population increases, problems magnify and increase also. Add more guns to the mix, and this is what happens.

    I wish I had the answer.

     

     
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  • You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Remembering Tucson...3 years later

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to UserName9's comment:

     I can't recall a single story where a legal gun owner has stepped in to stop a massacre.



    Oh there have been such cases. Wasn't there one where a churchlady stopped some guy who was about to shoot people?

    I have to disagree in part. There are cases where legal gun owners use gun to stop violence. They're in the news all the time, and waved around by gun control opponents.

    However, it is also true that "The bottom line is that having a legal gun in the house increases your likelihood of being shot, rather than reducing it" (and increases the chance of a child shooting themselves; and makes suicide easier, etc).

    They aren't mutually exclusive. Guns can be used to save lives. It's just that on balance, a heavily armed society is going to see a lot more gun violence after all. And that's why we have both the most guns per capita and gun violence per capita - we're way past other countries on that front.

     

    USA ! USA! USA!




    So in addition to being known as "prison nation" and "trash nation" we can add "gun nation"....YAY us...

    Now..if we could only lead the industrialized world in things like education, science and technology and health care....

     
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    Re: Remembering Tucson...3 years later

    In response to RSF4Life234's comment:

    In response to 2013soxchamps' comment:

    In response to miscricket's comment:

    It is hard to believe that it's been three years since a madman opened fire on a group of people gathered to support  Rep. Gabrielle Giffords outside a supermarket.

    Among those killed was 9 year old Christina- Taylor Green..a little girl who even at her young age had an interest in the way her country was run..had an interest in making a difference. Who knows what kind of amazing things that little girl would have accomplished had Jared Loughner not had the opportunity to gun down 18 people...killing 6 of them and seriously injuring another 12.

    The lives of so many people changed forever on that day. Sadly though..not much has changed in the general society. Since that day in 2011, it seems as though these kinds of mass murders are becoming more and not less common..including the Sandyhook shooting.

    I know I've said these things until I am blue in the face..and perhaps some are sick of hearing it. I support the second amendment..I support a person's right to own a gun to hunt, collect or protect themselves.

    However...I don't want my baby niece to grow up in a world where we essentially live in a military state. I don't want my grandchildren to be born into that kind of world. For the life of me..I don't understand why some comprehensive gun control measures around mental health testing have not been passed. I don't understand how our elected officials cannot find some common ground...something that allows decent, responsible and law abiding citizens to own firearms..but keeps them out of the hands of people who are mentally ill.

    People who support unfettered exercise of the second amendment like to quote the founding fathers...but you cannot tell me with a straight face that our founding fathers would support an unfettered right to bear arms in the face of so many children being murdered at the hands of madmen. I am sure they are rolling over in their graves.




    100% agree.

    "I support the second amendment..I support a person's right to own a gun to hunt, collect or protect themselves."

    There should be no argument to background checks when it comes to the mental stability of someone owning a gun. Sadly the staunch NRA members will argue this, that is until one of thier own is killed by a mentally unstable person.

    Obviously until that happens, will see more headlines of mass shootings. I pray, they'll never be another Sandy Hook but reality is there very well could be. As heartbreaking as that day and Tuscon, and all the others were it doesn't seem as if we learned a thing.

     

     

     



    +1




    Add my +1 to that as well!

     
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    Re: Remembering Tucson...3 years later

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     



    You only increase your chances of being shot if you're a moron. My dad owned guns all through my childhood.....no one in my family ever got shot. Millions of gun owners go their entire lives with no one being shot in their family. 

    And maybe there are no cases of legal gun owners stopping a gun massacre, most likely Because there weren't any around. How many students do you know that carry a gun in High school??????? But there are countless stories of legal gun owners who saved themselves from gun violence from intruders who broke into their home. 

     



    So...then perhaps the question should be..how do we keep guns out of the hands of morons?

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    Re: Remembering Tucson...3 years later

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     



    The way my dad handled his guns took getting shot 100% out of the way. If simply wasn't possible. His guns were locked up when not in use. In use was using them at shooting range. 

    And no, getting the key wasn't possible. Nor was there an interest due to not wanting to face the wrath of my dad if my brother or I somehow, some way did get access to his guns. Plus, since my dad didn't make a big deal of there being guns in the house and because he took us to the range with him there was zero curiosity to get at the guns on our own. That's called parenting. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    A friend of mine owns several guns..for hunting, collecting and one for protection. Except for the gun he carries for protection all the other guns are locked in a very secure safe for which no one else in the house has the combination. No children in the house though..so leaving one gun in the nightstand is not an issue. I am guessing if there were children in the house he would figure something else out.

     
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    Re: Remembering Tucson...3 years later

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    In response to miscricket's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     

     



    The way my dad handled his guns took getting shot 100% out of the way. If simply wasn't possible. His guns were locked up when not in use. In use was using them at shooting range. 

     

    And no, getting the key wasn't possible. Nor was there an interest due to not wanting to face the wrath of my dad if my brother or I somehow, some way did get access to his guns. Plus, since my dad didn't make a big deal of there being guns in the house and because he took us to the range with him there was zero curiosity to get at the guns on our own. That's called parenting. 

     




    A friend of mine owns several guns..for hunting, collecting and one for protection. Except for the gun he carries for protection all the other guns are locked in a very secure safe for which no one else in the house has the combination. No children in the house though..so leaving one gun in the nightstand is not an issue. I am guessing if there were children in the house he would figure something else out.



    He's one of the responsible gun owners. Good for him

     

     




    It is awful what keeps happening with guns in the US. IMO it's never safe to leave a gun out.

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