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Sales of Chevy Volts triple in one year.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Sales of Chevy Volts triple in one year.

    In response to DirtyWaterLover's comment:

    The amout of money lost by GM on the volt is misleading.  All new cars are money losers because of how the R&D costs of the car is depreciated.

    As far as the volt being bought by the military - and?  They have to buy something.  And imagine how much the AR-15 would cost had it not been for the military basically paying for the start up and R&D costs.  If the military can do 1/2 for the Volt for what it did to the AR-15, then I'm all for it.



    "All new cars are money losers"

    Henry Ford you aint. By your logic, Ford's Edsel will be making big money any day now...

    The private sector , and the concept of failure and risk, seems beyond the comprehension of progressives.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12-Angry-Men. Show 12-Angry-Men's posts

    Re: Sales of Chevy Volts triple in one year.

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    All this spin from Obama poodle Bob Lutz. Amazingly, he tries to debunk the figure, but no mention of what he claims the actual figure is..OK Bob maybe it is 40K loss instead of 70K loss...isnt that wonderful ! GM has the same "transparency" as the Obama Administration GM wont say exactly how many of its "tripled" Volt sales are for Government, GE and/or given away with dirt cheap leases... GM wont say how much it cost to build each Volt... Government Motors, indeed..



    Gawd, just shut the fcuk up, you're an idiot.

    Just because business reality doesn't align with your ignorant ideology you fvcking morons will dismiss ACTUAL BUSINESS MODELS because you wish to remain wilfully ignorant.

    Seriously, if you're going to be so dang obstinate in the face of facts then what's the point.

    And by the way, Bob Lutz has been a conservative for longer than you've stopped wetting your bed.

    IDIOTS!!!!! 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12-Angry-Men. Show 12-Angry-Men's posts

    Re: Sales of Chevy Volts triple in one year.

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    "All new cars are money losers" Henry Ford you aint. By your logic, Ford's Edsel will be making big money any day now... The private sector , and the concept of failure and risk, seems beyond the comprehension of progressives.



    You really have no fvcking clue about what you're babbling about.

    No car in history has ever made money from the first car.

    It's a fvcking ridiculous proposition.

    How much money did it cost for Ford to build his first assembly line, hire the thousands of workers and then add the cost of materials? 10's of millions of dollars, even in 1920's dollars.

    Did Ford start selling his first car at $10 million dollars?

    Of course not. So your 'argument' is laughably ignorant of business. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12-Angry-Men. Show 12-Angry-Men's posts

    Re: Sales of Chevy Volts triple in one year.

    If you had bothered to read the research provided you woul've learned that Bob Lutz gave a very good accounting of the costs incurred with the Volt.

     

    Let me provide a look at how a car company tracks profitability of a product program: measured are material cost and labor, and these are deducted from the selling price. The positive difference is called "gross margin." Then, one allocates per-unit "fixed cost" (advertising, general overhead, etc.) plus per-unit depreciation and amortization of the initial investment, based on the TOTAL NUMBER TO BE PRODUCED OVER THE LIFETIME of the product. If the margin, after all deductions, is still positive, then we call it a "fully accounted profit," and the car is a winner.

    The Volt "variable cost" (labor and materials, without revealing any confidential GM information), looks very roughly like this: A Li-Ion battery today runs about $350 per KWh. The Volt's is 16KWh, so that's roughly $6000. Add $4,000 for the battery pack structure, the cooling, the high-voltage wiring, the motor and the power electronics. So, that's the electric portion. Add about 20 hours of assembly labor which we'll round to a very generous $1000. The dealer net price is, say, $37,000. We now have $26,000 left for the rest of the car, which, cost-wise, is about equal to a Chevy Cruze which sells for around $22,000 retail! (And the Volt has no costly conventional transmission.) Thus, the Volt, by my estimate, is either close to "variable break-even" or may be on the cusp of a positive gross margin. Deduct the per-unit allocation for all fixed cost, depreciation and amortization and it is, surely, still "under water".-but not by much, and less and less so as the volume builds and other, higher-margin GM cars, like the Cadillac ELR, piggy-back off of the Volt's initial investment.

    Maybe the Volt, a first-generation technology masterpiece and the most-awarded car in automotive history, will never make a really decent profit.

    But succeeding generations of the same technology will. Meanwhile, the happy Volt buyers (most satisfied owners of any nameplate in the market) are getting more that they paid for. (Is that so bad?)

    We won't even factor in the profound halo effect the introduction of the Volt has had on GM's reputation as a leader in environmental automotive technology; it's priceless, and could never have been achieved without it.

    So, once again, the knee-jerk Volt bashers, devoid of any real knowledge, have had their usual joyous verbal catharsis, but the car doesn't care: The volumes are building globally and it's doing exactly what it was designed to do.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Firewind. Show Firewind's posts

    Re: Sales of Chevy Volts triple in one year.

    So, icons GM ("What's good for the US...") and GE (icon Jack Welch, books and books...) have gone from first to worst.  Just because?

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName99. Show UserName99's posts

    Re: Sales of Chevy Volts triple in one year.

    In response to jmel's comment:

    In response to UserName99's comment:

    Only in America can people that describe themselves as true patriots trash one of our greatest and most important industrial powerhouses. GM and its suppliers provide millions of jobs from steel mills to the post office to ad agencies. Talk about cutting your nose despite your face!

    Much of the motivation behind these attacks is the view of the wingnut base that climate change is somehow a vast conspiracy of scientists throughout the world. But even if you accept such paranoid fantasies about climate change, the Volt also beneficially helps address two other issues that the GOP pretends to care about - energy independence and higher gas prices. Given all of the rhetoric that the GOP is throwing around blaming President Obama for high gas prices, you would think the GOP would be happy to embrace an innovative, American-made technology that helps reduce our dependence high priced gas and foreign oil.

    Attacks on the Volt are a prime example of how so much of today's conservative agenda is simply about attacking liberals.



    American made?  The most important and key component of the Volt is the BATTERY.  You know the battery  made by the BANKRUPT U.S company, A123?  You know the BANKRUPT company A123 that receievd Obama-money, failed miserably, and just sold out to the Chinese!

     "Although A123 received approval for a $249 million federal grant through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, it received only about half of the money before filing for bankruptcy protection last year. The funds were intended to create thousands of American jobs, but a review by The Washington Times of government job-tracking data shows that only about 400 positions were created before the company joined a growing list of federally backed energy businesses that ended in bankruptcy."

     

    Another fine investment of the American taxpayer`s dollars by the incompetent.  Right up there with Solyndra.

     




    The Volt battery cells are created by a company called LG Chem in South Korea and are shipped to Western Michigan where the battery packs are assembled by US workers.  A123 is not, and never has been involved with the Volt. 

     

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Sales of Chevy Volts triple in one year.

    Another example of missing the forest for the trees...

     

    The relevance here is not the car itself, but the technology, which GM will expand to other models and will undoubtably pay for itself many times over.

    Myopia reigns in the world of the anti-environment, pro-fossil fuel, anti-worker conservative house of mirrors.  They say they care about the next generations, but they don't really mean it when it affects their own wallets.

    In 50 years, electric and hybrid cars will outnumber conventional ones by a wide margin.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12-Angry-Men. Show 12-Angry-Men's posts

    Re: Sales of Chevy Volts triple in one year.

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    Myopia reigns in the world of the anti-environment, pro-fossil fuel, anti-worker conservative house of mirrors.  They say they care about the next generations, but they don't really mean it when it affects their own wallets. In 50 years, electric and hybrid cars will outnumber conventional ones by a wide margin. 



    It is ironic that one of the wingnuts invoked Henry Ford in the discussion.

    The same Ford who was accused of being a socialist for paying his workers a minimum wage, offering them healthcare and wellness programs in addition to housing and schools.

    His logic was a nice dovetail of capitalism and worker rights. If he paid his workers a good wage and provided for their basic needs not only would they work harder, he saw less turnover in his workforce and those same workers, because of his higher salaries, became customers and were able to buy the cars they built.

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Sales of Chevy Volts triple in one year.

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    Another example of missing the forest for the trees...

     

    The relevance here is not the car itself, but the technology, which GM will expand to other models and will undoubtably pay for itself many times over.

    Myopia reigns in the world of the anti-environment, pro-fossil fuel, anti-worker conservative house of mirrors.  They say they care about the next generations, but they don't really mean it when it affects their own wallets.

    In 50 years, electric and hybrid cars will outnumber conventional ones by a wide margin.

     

    50 years? LOL...Incompetent government top-down planners can't predict 5 days ahead, never mind 50 years.

    The wallets at issue are Obama crony capitalists being fattened up by billions in our tax money, to fail again and again. 

    The sudden and unexpected fracking revolution put a lie to the leftist delusion that oil and gas is running out. Ironically, the boom in natural gas is resulting in less carbon pollution, not the failed subsidized 'wind power " and electric cars...

    Who knows what technological breakthroughs by the innovative private sector lie ahead, if not squelched by the Government?

     

    The efficient and innovative private sector , if it is allowed to exist, will determine what technology will be more efficient 50 years from now.  

     

     

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Sales of Chevy Volts triple in one year.

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    Another example of missing the forest for the trees...

     

    The relevance here is not the car itself, but the technology, which GM will expand to other models and will undoubtably pay for itself many times over.

    Myopia reigns in the world of the anti-environment, pro-fossil fuel, anti-worker conservative house of mirrors.  They say they care about the next generations, but they don't really mean it when it affects their own wallets.

    In 50 years, electric and hybrid cars will outnumber conventional ones by a wide margin.

     

    50 years? LOL...Incompetent government top-down planners can't predict 5 days ahead, never mind 50 years.

    The wallets at issue are Obama crony capitalists being fattened up by billions in our tax money, to fail again and again. 

    The sudden and unexpected fracking revolution put a lie to the leftist delusion that oil and gas is running out. Ironically, the boom in natural gas is resulting in less carbon pollution, not the failed subsidized 'wind power " and electric cars...

    Who knows what technological breakthroughs by the innovative private sector lie ahead, if not squelched by the Government?

     

    The efficient and innovative private sector , if it is allowed to exist, will determine what technology will be more efficient 50 years from now.  

     

     




    You prove again you don't know a damm thing of what you're talking about.

    The private sector developed and summarily killed the EV1.  Its history is well-documented, as is the innovation behind everything from halogen lights to anti-lock braking to side curtain airbags.

    You keep talking about this imaginary, unbridled private sector utopia that only existed in the robber baron days, and that to poor results.

    Time and again, private enterprise has needed - begged - govt to provide direction to emerging industries and markets.  Or lest we forget the utterly craven and dependent defense contractors...??

    As for oil and gas, where is the rush of automakers to build NG cars?  Oh, right...they want govt to subsidize it and give away public lands for pennies.

    Take a sniff of what you shovelin'....

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Sales of Chevy Volts triple in one year.

    In response to chiefhowie's comment:

    In response to DirtyWaterLover's comment:

    The amout of money lost by GM on the volt is misleading.  All new cars are money losers because of how the R&D costs of the car is depreciated.

    As far as the volt being bought by the military - and?  They have to buy something.  And imagine how much the AR-15 would cost had it not been for the military basically paying for the start up and R&D costs.  If the military can do 1/2 for the Volt for what it did to the AR-15, then I'm all for it.



    Military pays $285 for a $23 wrench. Ford Fusion hybrid is beating volt, Volt loses $7500 on each sale.

    GM has spent hundreds of millions of dollars marketing President Obama's favorite car only to sell less than 30,000 Volts in two years. Toyota sells about that many Camrys in just one month! 




    Yeah, but (different-classed) Camrys are boring, predictable, forgettable and vaguely rendered.  The Volt is none of these things by any standard.

    If some wannabe status-seeker is willing to fork over $40k for an over-priced import sport sedan of middling reliability, then why not an American-made sport sedan that tops out at over 60 MPG...?

    Ford now sells a Fusion plug-in for the 2013 model year.  A better overall comparison, so we'll see how they compete in the coming year.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Sales of Chevy Volts triple in one year.

    In the moonbat view of the world, the almighty Government never fails at anything, no matter how many billions are flushed down the toilet. Just needs more "investment". And many moonbats who claim to be so altruistic have a vested interest ; their snouts are slurping up the government 'investment'....

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Sales of Chevy Volts triple in one year.

    Forbes:

    "With additional subsidies from GM (that would be you and me), Chevrolet dealers in August were offering two-year Volt leases for as little as $250 down and $199/month.  Fully 2/3s of the “sales” were leases, leaving around 925 cars that were truly sold.  Prior to the giveaway leases, GM says that 40% of 2012 sales were also leases.  The number remains the same—an average of about 925 cars really sold each month for this year.

    Automotive News recently reported that the feds have purchased 182 Volts so far in 2012.  Now we’re down to 900 real sales per month..  Corporate (fleet) sales are conservatively estimated at 5% of the total, putting the consumer number closer to 850.

    Don’t forget that the Department of Defense has committed to buying 1,500 of these wallet-hogs. These aren’t combat vehicles and will no doubt largely wind up in some Colonel’s driveway.

    There are enough scams here to satisfy a Chicago politician. The giveaway lease cars are initially bought by dealerships at cost, which Bob Lutz says is $37,000.  Then they pocket an additional $7,500—the Volt subsidy that Obama proposes raising to $10,000—paid by  you and me.

    Two years later they get the car back.  Given the ridiculous lease terms, there’s probably a pretty low limit on the free mileage, say, around 20,000.  Now there’s a low-mileage used Volt out there that they can probably sell for $34,000 (a price lower than the average new one minus the subsidy)  So each dealer makes a hefty $5,000 in lease fees, $7,500 in our money, and an unknown (lowball: $3,000) “incentive” from GM for the giveaway lease that’s matched by the lower price for the resale car. That’s $12,500 per car.  Not a  bad margin, and with good PR to boot.

    Because the leased vehicles are counted as “sales”, that’s  pretty much like stating that every vehicle in a dealer’s inventory—which they have paid for—is “sold”, or that  people who rent property actually own it.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Sales of Chevy Volts triple in one year.

    The fact is that no one wants this car and the government is goosing sales by giving them away as short-term leases and purchasing them for officers to tool around in.  Meanwhile, the dealers make a killing—largely on the taxpayer’s dime.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12-Angry-Men. Show 12-Angry-Men's posts

    Re: Sales of Chevy Volts triple in one year.

    You idiots are just getting ridiculous.

    So now leased vehicles, which have been around for decades, are now somehow judged differently just because you ideological imbeciles are looking for a political attack.

    Ya, funny when stuff like oil subsidies comes up you morons keep saying "they are benefits every business gets". But when leases of the Volt are mentioned, you idiots want to twist every line item, to the point of absurdity, even though every car can be leased and in each of those cases the dealer pockets ANY and ALL incentives offered by the car company.

    You idiots have already been proven wrong on your assinine 'expensing' bullshiite, now you want to try and pivot to something else, which is equally stupid.

    How's this, "Every car can be leased so the Volt is no different."

    Ya, I know, it sounds exactly like your defense of tax breaks for oil companies. Funny how it only works when you idiots use it...

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12-Angry-Men. Show 12-Angry-Men's posts

    Re: Sales of Chevy Volts triple in one year.

    From the comments section of your article:

    It's very clear that Patrick Michaels has no idea how automotive leases work. In a lease, dealers do not purchase the car, nor do they get the car back at the end. The lessor, the financial institution that originated the lease, is the "owner" of the car and takes the risk of resale at disposition. If the residual value is too high, it is their loss. If it is too low, the lesee always has the right to puchase the car for that stated value. More than 60% of Mercedes-Benz and BMW sales in the US are leases. Does that mean that we can only count the remaining <40% as "real sales"? I understand the responsibility of fact-checking is considerably lower for an Op-Ed piece, but you should have done your homework.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12-Angry-Men. Show 12-Angry-Men's posts

    Re: Sales of Chevy Volts triple in one year.

    Here are all the vehicles that "no one wants" even less than the Volt:

    Year-To-Date sales in the US (Jan 1, 2012 = Sept 1, 2012)

    **Chevrolet VOLT = 13,497**
     Nissan Quest Minivan = 13,324
     Volkswagen CC = 13,049
     Honda Crosstour = 12,857
     Lexus CT200h = 12,417
     Volvo XC60 = 12,189
     Nissan Xterra = 12,092
     Nissan Armada = 12,002
     Mazda 2 (all) = 11,973
     Audi A6 (all) = 11,844
     Audi A5 (all) = 11,411
     Nissan Altima Hybrid = 11,320
     Mazda CX7 = 11,187
     Mini Clubman/Coupe/Roadster/Convertible (combined) = 10,742
     Range Rover Sport = 9,949
     Dodge Caliber (all) = 9,843
     Corvette (all) = 9,219
     Honda Ridgeline = 9,169
     Porsche Cayenne (all) = 8,964
     Mazda 5 (all) = 8,861
     Toyota FJ Cruiser = 8,733
     Subaru WRX (incl STi)- 8,450
     Toyota Sequoia (all) = 8,273
     Lexus RX450h Hybrid = 7,917
     BMW 7-series (all) = 7,639
     Scion XD (all) = 7,483
     VW Routan (all) = 7,424
     Mercedes S-Class (all) = 7,289
     Ford Fusion Hybrid = 7,168
     Kia Optima Hybrid = 7,005
     VW Golf TDi Diesel = 7,002
     Lexus GX (all) = 6,772
     BMW X5 Diesel = 6,679   << VOLT has sold DOUBLE or more
     Volvo XC90 (all) = 6,478
     Audi Q7 (all) = 6,291
     VW Touareg (all) = 6,284
     Smart (all) = 6,281
     Infiniti M (all) = 6,259
     Porsche 911 (all) = 6,145
     Hyundai Veracruz = 6,116
     Toyota Prius PHEV = 6,068
     Infiniti FX (all) = 5,803
     Nissan 370Z (all) = 5,663
     Audi A7 (all) = 5,531
     Range Rover = 5,490
     Mercedes CLS (all) = 5,400
     Porsche Panamera (all) = 5,378
     Nissan Cube = 5,297
     Honda Civic Hybrid = 5,168
     BMW 1-series (all) = 5,020
     Lincoln MKT (all) = 4,990
     Lincoln Navigator (all) = 4,976
     Audi A3 (all) = 4,944
     Land Rover LR4 = 4,885
     BMW 6-series (all) = 4,873
     Honda Insight Hybrid = 4,801
     VW EOS (all) = 4,799
     Mazda Miata (all) = 4,576
     Lexus LS (all) = 4,358   << VOLT has sold TRIPLE or more
     Nissan Leaf = 4,228
     Toyota Highlander Hybrid = 3,969
     Jaguar XF (all) = 3,951
     Mercedes ML350 BlueTec Diesel = 3,933
     BMW X6 (all) = 3,614
     Volvo XC70 (all) = 3,578
     Volvo C70 (all) = 3,530
     Jaguar XJ (all) = 3,515
     Audi A8 (all) = 3,419
     Lexus LX (all) = 3,388   << VOLT has sold QUADRUPLE or more
     Honda CRZ Hybrid = 3,126
     Mercedes SLK (all) = 2,872
     Acura TSX Wagon = 2,736
     Mercedes SL (all) = 2,628   << VOLT has sold 5X or more
     Volvo S80 (all) = 2,442
     Infiniti EX (all) = 2,227   << 6X
     Land Rover LR2 = 2,038
     Volvo C30 = 1,967
     Mercedes E350 BlueTec Diesel = 1,823
     Toyota Land Cruiser = 1,767   << 7X
     BMW Z4 (all) = 1,765
     Audi TT (all) = 1,512   << 8X
     Mercedes R-Class (all) = 1,416   << 9X
     Porsche Boxster (all) = 1,363
     Ford Escape Hybrid = 1,248   << 10X
     Jaguar XK (all) = 1,080
     Nissan GT-R = 849
     BMW 335d Diesel = 711
     Acura ZDX = 594
     Mercedes CL-Class (all) = 490
     Porsche Cayman (all) = 429
     Lexus GS450h Hybrid = 338
     Acura RL = 295

     

     

    Maybe all of these cars should be discontinued.

    Is there any business reason why all these cars are still being produced and sold which wouldn't apply to the Volt?

     
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