Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?

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    Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?

    Joe Battenfeld in the Herald today made a good pitch for Scott Brown to run for President in 2012.  As he put it, this wacky state elected Suzanne Bump a serial tax fraud to be State Auditor and the rest of the Dem slate in a GOP surge year.  So you know that Brown has his work cut out for him to keep his seat. 


    At first I really wanted Brown to get more national experience under his belt, but you need a national stage to run and I give his re-election in Mass (against the Dem/Union machine) a tough row to hoe.  Maybe the wacky voters of Mass did us a favor and have forced Brown's hand to announce mid 2011, once he's checked out the competition.  Mass voters may buy the nice guy I just need more time for hope and change message in Mass, but national voters are inspired by action not just words.

    Just think much of his opposition couldn't could say his resume was was too thin whether it was Palin or Obama.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from RevWright. Show RevWright's posts

    Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?

    The last thing we need is another 'On the Job Training' disaster in the WH.

    Imagine if Obama actually did something in the Senate besides voting 'Present' ?
    This is the big leagues. Maybe the public has learned from the "O" experiment.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?

    So he should run for President to avoid being defeated in his Senate reelection campaign?

    Not that it would necessarily be a bad idea for Brown, but I think Battenfeld is misreading the path to the GOP nomination.  Can Brown win or finish second in southern state primarys where social consevatives hold considerably more sway than in other areas?  The GOP as a party has tacked right since 2008, and Brown is a certifiable moderate, so how does he hold up against conservative poster boys and girls like Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrinch, Jim Demint (possibly).  The conservative opinion makers on FOXNews and the AM radio waves aren't going to rally around him with other more legit conservatives are in the mix.  No way in hell that will happen.  How does Brown stack up against more established names like Mitch Daniels, Tim Pawlenty, and Mitt Romney especially where Mitt and Tim and have been running shadow camapaigns for over a year now?

    I think Brown would give the GOP a fresh face and a new look, but I think his path to the White House would have to come via a VP nominiation.  He can't win the GOP nomination for Pres, not in an environment that is pushing ideological purity and he already has a couple of blemishes in terms of conservative cred by voting with Dems on a couple of bills in his short time in office. 
     
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    Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?


    If he ran for President in 2012, it would obviously be a long shot and very risky for his future...though the media probably would favor him as the moderate choice against conservatives. Since Chris Christie isnt running, that 'moderate' slot may be available.
    If he acquitted himself well, even if he lost, he would conceivably be considered for VP, or a cabinet post, representative of the moderate Northeastern GOP. 
     
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    Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?

    In Response to Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?:
    [QUOTE]So he should run for President to avoid being defeated in his Senate reelection campaign? Not that it would necessarily be a bad idea for Brown, but I think Battenfeld is misreading the path to the GOP nomination.  Can Brown win or finish second in southern state primarys where social consevatives hold considerably more sway than in other areas?  The GOP as a party has tacked right since 2008, and Brown is a certifiable moderate, so how does he hold up against conservative poster boys and girls like Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrinch, Jim Demint (possibly).  The conservative opinion makers on FOXNews and the AM radio waves aren't going to rally around him with other more legit conservatives are in the mix.  No way in hell that will happen.  How does Brown stack up against more established names like Mitch Daniels, Tim Pawlenty, and Mitt Romney especially where Mitt and Tim and have been running shadow camapaigns for over a year now? I think Brown would give the GOP a fresh face and a new look, but I think his path to the White House would have to come via a VP nominiation.  He can't win the GOP nomination for Pres, not in an environment that is pushing ideological purity and he already has a couple of blemishes in terms of conservative cred by voting with Dems on a couple of bills in his short time in office. 
    Posted by DamainAllen[/QUOTE]

    Damain

    All good points, it would be tough for the moderate.  I kind of see Brown running like Gore, who eventually was Clinton's running mate.  I could see Brown filling a very nice niche behind Demint, Pawlenty or Mitch Daniels (love his Harley).  There is a Romney factor as Romney was a big booster of Brown early and it would be hard for Brown to run against him.  Is there still a Romney opportunity or does he want to be a king maker?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?

    I don't think Romney wants to be kingmaker, he wants the big chair.  Plus Romney's credentials as far as conservatism goes is fairly weak and it was an exposure he couldn't shake in 2008 so likely his compitetion will dust off the same play book and run it again likely with the same effect. So for that reason its probably fair to say he doesn't have the same juice as Jim Demint, or even Sarah Palin in annoiting the next big thing and certainly his endorsement wouldn't fly as far as either of theirs in terms of turning out the base.  

    But the bigger issue with regard to Romney is this, if Romney can't win the nomination then how could Brown?  To the national electorate voting in the GOP primaries aren't they the same, or rather, won't they be portrayed in a very similar light as RINOs?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ForumCleaner. Show ForumCleaner's posts

    Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?

    I actually like brown, but I don't think he is presidential material. He's a nice guy, but he really isn't the brightest bulb. If the republicans want to win, they really need to put up a candidate like Romney. Someone who is intelligent, charming and can appeal to democrats as well as republicans. You put up a Romney, we simply can't beat you in 2012. You put up a Brown or Palin, and the tea party association will scare off moderates and dems in the general election.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?

    In Response to Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?:
    [QUOTE]I actually like brown, but I don't think he is presidential material. He's a nice guy, but he really isn't the brightest bulb. If the republicans want to win, they really need to put up a candidate like Romney. Someone who is intelligent, charming and can appeal to democrats as well as republicans. You put up a Romney, we simply can't beat you in 2012. You put up a Brown or Palin, and the tea party association will scare off moderates and dems in the general election.
    Posted by ForumCleaner[/QUOTE]

    but he really isn't the brightest bulb.

    Based on what?
     
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    Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?

    In Response to Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012? : but he really isn't the brightest bulb. Based on what?
    Posted by hawkeye01[/QUOTE]

    Based on hearing him speak. He sounds very slow witted. I am not saying he doesn't understand the issues (and even if he didn't most politicians have advisers who help them with that anyways), but just listening to him he comes across as dim. And that matters in politics. Some, like Bush, can turn it into an assett. But I don't think people want a redu of him. Romney on the other hand, comes off as a sharp guy who is on the ball.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?

    In Response to Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?:
    [QUOTE]I don't think Romney wants to be kingmaker, he wants the big chair.  Plus Romney's credentials as far as conservatism goes is fairly weak and it was an exposure he couldn't shake in 2008 so likely his compitetion will dust off the same play book and run it again likely with the same effect. So for that reason its probably fair to say he doesn't have the same juice as Jim Demint, or even Sarah Palin in annoiting the next big thing and certainly his endorsement wouldn't fly as far as either of theirs in terms of turning out the base.   But the bigger issue with regard to Romney is this, if Romney can't win the nomination then how could Brown?  To the national electorate voting in the GOP primaries aren't they the same, or rather, won't they be portrayed in a very similar light as RINOs?
    Posted by DamainAllen[/QUOTE]

    Well, I agree during this cycle as conservatives rule the GOP. as progressive have ruled the Dems.  I see Brown getting exposure by running and if he is lucky he gets the nod as VP with a conservative to give some northern/moderate balance to the ticket.  Of course he could get the VP nod if he didn't run for president.  If a conservative/moderate combo of say Demint/Brown wins in 2012 great, if it loses Brown would be the logical choice in 2016.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?

    In Response to Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012? : Based on hearing him speak. He sounds very slow witted. I am not saying he doesn't understand the issues (and even if he didn't most politicians have advisers who help them with that anyways), but just listening to him he comes across as dim. And that matters in politics. Some, like Bush, can turn it into an assett. But I don't think people want a redu of him. Romney on the other hand, comes off as a sharp guy who is on the ball.
    Posted by ForumCleaner[/QUOTE]

    Good thing you're not at all judgemental based on no real evidence.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?

    In Response to Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012? : Based on hearing him speak. He sounds very slow witted. I am not saying he doesn't understand the issues (and even if he didn't most politicians have advisers who help them with that anyways), but just listening to him he comes across as dim. And that matters in politics. Some, like Bush, can turn it into an assett. But I don't think people want a redu of him. Romney on the other hand, comes off as a sharp guy who is on the ball.
    Posted by ForumCleaner[/QUOTE]

    Are you saying Brown speaks like Obama without a teleprompter.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ForumCleaner. Show ForumCleaner's posts

    Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?

    In Response to Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012? : Good thing you're not at all judgemental based on no real evidence.
    Posted by hawkeye01[/QUOTE]

    I would say listening to him speak is evidence, and that is what he is going to have to contend with in an election. Look, I would probably vote for the guy. But we are discussing the realities of the politics here. The man comes across as less than bright. He is a very slow and dim speaker. I've heard him engaged with people in interviews and it is very clear he is not good thinking on his feet. That is an important skill in politics.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?

    I don't know that Brown is dimwitted, I kow he had a couple of cringe moments in a couple of interviews but every one does, certainly nothing he did inspired the level of dismissiveness that was directed at Sarah Palin following her roll out.  Brown can give as good a red meat speach as anyone, but I don't buy that his image and record would sway the GOP base, it might bring some Independents along, but again he can't win the south with Indy's alone.   He has to carve out some votes from social conservatives who would be more inclined to vote for a Huckabee, Haley Barbour, or Gingrinch type.  Palin consistently has high favorables among GOP voters but those same voters don't think she would make a good president, so it is unlikely she would run and if she did, shes a long shot to win.  So she isn't his real competition.  If Demint tosses his hat in then the nomination becomes a race to determine who is the most conservative, and Brown loses that battle hands down. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ForumCleaner. Show ForumCleaner's posts

    Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?

    In Response to Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012? : Are you saying Brown speaks like Obama without a teleprompter.
    Posted by massmoderateJoe[/QUOTE]

    Obama is fine in an interview or thinking on his feet.Anyone who say his discussion with the republican leaders (really a debate) could plainly see Obama can think on the fly and is well informed.  Brown simply isn't like that. He speaks very slow. And he isn't good at responding on the fly. Romney beats them both by miles, but I don't think he can win the primary.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ForumCleaner. Show ForumCleaner's posts

    Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?

    In Response to Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?:
    [QUOTE]I don't know that Brown is dimwitted, I kow he had a couple of cringe moments in a couple of interviews but every one does, certainly nothing he did inspired the level of dismissiveness that was directed at Sarah Palin following her roll out.  
    Posted by DamainAllen[/QUOTE]

    I am not suggesting that. But I do think he comes accross as dim.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?

    In Response to Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012? : Obama is fine in an interview or thinking on his feet.Anyone who say his discussion with the republican leaders (really a debate) could plainly see Obama can think on the fly and is well informed.  Brown simply isn't like that. He speaks very slow. And he isn't good at responding on the fly. Romney beats them both by miles, but I don't think he can win the primary.
    Posted by ForumCleaner[/QUOTE]

    Romney is a flawed candidate and I would never vote for him.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ForumCleaner. Show ForumCleaner's posts

    Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?

    In Response to Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012? : Romney is a flawed candidate and I would never vote for him.
    Posted by massmoderateJoe[/QUOTE]


    Why do you think he is flawed? In a general election I think he would do very well. He is going to have a hard time in the republican primary, especially in this age of the tea party. But I think he has some broad appeal.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobinVa. Show BobinVa's posts

    Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?

    "You put up a Brown or Palin, and the tea party association will scare off moderates and dems in the general election. "

    Yeah, that Tea party association really hurts the GOP, doesnt it? 64 House members, 6 US Senators, 10 governors and 650 state legislators beg to differ.... 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ForumCleaner. Show ForumCleaner's posts

    Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?

    In Response to Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?:
    [QUOTE]"You put up a Brown or Palin, and the tea party association will scare off moderates and dems in the general election. " Yeah, that Tea party association really hurts the GOP, doesnt it? 64 House members, 6 US Senators, 10 governors and 650 state legislators beg to differ.... 
    Posted by BobinVa[/QUOTE]

    The tea party helped get the base out in many local elections. In a general presidential election, the tea party can't win. Sorry. You guys are viewed as too extreme by too much of the country.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?

    In Response to Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012? : Well, I agree during this cycle as conservatives rule the GOP. as progressive have ruled the Dems.  I see Brown getting exposure by running and if he is lucky he gets the nod as VP with a conservative to give some northern/moderate balance to the ticket.  Of course he could get the VP nod if he didn't run for president.  If a conservative/moderate combo of say Demint/Brown wins in 2012 great, if it loses Brown would be the logical choice in 2016.
    Posted by massmoderateJoe[/QUOTE]

    How would Brown be the logical choice when, he vacated a senate seat/or lost it, and then lost a Presidential election as the VP on the ticket.  He would be the scapegoat as purists would say he dragged down Demint (if that were the ticket).  The lesson from 2008 seemed to be the GOP had lost its way, moderates called for a a big tent party, and the conservatives pushed that aside and went hard to the right with impressive results only two years after they were "in the wilderness".  Applying those lessons to 2012 would seem to point to the same hard right party orientation.  If a hard conservative wins the nom he would be better off by picking someone like Mitch Daniels from Indiana for VP if they were trying to soften their image.  Scott Brown would present a liability to the nominees conservative base.  It could happen if it were felt Brown would bring the Indy's and the base stayed motivated all the way to November, but other more established figures could have the same effect as Brown and they would all have higher upsides. 

    I think Bettenfeld's analysis misses the nuts and bolts of the process and he is assuming that all repblicans are the same.  They are not.  There are Dems in the Blue Dogs who are more conservative than Scott Brown. 
     
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    Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?

    In Response to Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?:
    [QUOTE]"You put up a Brown or Palin, and the tea party association will scare off moderates and dems in the general election. " Yeah, that Tea party association really hurts the GOP, doesnt it? 64 House members, 6 US Senators, 10 governors and 650 state legislators beg to differ.... 
    Posted by BobinVa[/QUOTE]

    Bob,

    I love the excitement that the TP brought back to the GOP, but when they have too much influence they put up candidates, like Angle and O'Donnell in areas that are too difficult to win and it becomes counter productive.  The Tp is to the GOP as the progressives are to the Dems, they deserve a place at the table but we'd all be better off, if the moderates of the parties were actually in charge.

     
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    Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?

    In Response to Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012? : Why do you think he is flawed? In a general election I think he would do very well. He is going to have a hard time in the republican primary, especially in this age of the tea party. But I think he has some broad appeal.
    Posted by ForumCleaner[/QUOTE]

    I've met him and watched him in action; he flip flops more than Kerry.  I could care less about his Mormon religion, but there are those (conservatives) who have a problem with it.  On one hand Romney looks good nationally, smart, strong business sense but he lacks the warm fuzzy factor like Baker.

    ...and like I said I'd never vote for him.

     
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    Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?

    In Response to Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Scott Brown for Senator or President 2012? : How would Brown be the logical choice when, he vacated a senate seat/or lost it, and then lost a Presidential election as the VP on the ticket.  He would be the scapegoat as purists would say he dragged down Demint (if that were the ticket).  The lesson from 2008 seemed to be the GOP had lost its way, moderates called for a a big tent party, and the conservatives pushed that aside and went hard to the right with impressive results only two years after they were "in the wilderness".  Applying those lessons to 2012 would seem to point to the same hard right party orientation.  If a hard conservative wins the nom he would be better off by picking someone like Mitch Daniels from Indiana for VP if they were trying to soften their image.  Scott Brown would present a liability to the nominees conservative base.  It could happen if it were felt Brown would bring the Indy's and the base stayed motivated all the way to November, but other more established figures could have the same effect as Brown and they would all have higher upsides.  I think Bettenfeld's analysis misses the nuts and bolts of the process and he is assuming that all repblicans are the same.  They are not.  There are Dems in the Blue Dogs who are more conservative than Scott Brown. 
    Posted by DamainAllen[/QUOTE]

    There would be those who would blame Brown if he was the VP of the losing ticket; but I don't think that would be a big percentage.  In addition, in 2016 the swing of conservatism will be shifting a little; as the economy will be better assuming that we return to a 8-10 yr cycle of prosperity the way we historically do.

    I agree with your Blue Dog comment, in any other state Brown would be a blue dog Dem.

     
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