Should Atheists Be Blocked From Becoming U.S. Citizens?

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MrCricket. Show MrCricket's posts

    Re: Should Atheists Be Blocked From Becoming U.S. Citizens?

    USA! USA! USA! USA! 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Should Atheists Be Blocked From Becoming U.S. Citizens?

    I don't see any reason for atheists to be denied.  However, that does not seem to be the sticking point.  The sticking point is that she refuses to take the oath on a generalized belief of non violence.  That doesn't fly.

    So, if atheism is a rejection of religion, how can she claim a religious exemption?

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName99. Show UserName99's posts

    Re: Should Atheists Be Blocked From Becoming U.S. Citizens?


    Sounds like the policy is backwards.  Our country needs more atheists, not less.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansoribrother. Show Hansoribrother's posts

    Re: Should Atheists Be Blocked From Becoming U.S. Citizens?

    In response to UserName99's comment:

     


    Sounds like the policy is backwards.  Our country needs more atheists, not less.

     



     

    FEWER atheists

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: Should Atheists Be Blocked From Becoming U.S. Citizens?

    I saw that story. Absolutely ridiculous.

    Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion as long as that means that you're not trampling on the religious rights of others.

    --

    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

     
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    Re: Should Atheists Be Blocked From Becoming U.S. Citizens?

    Here, I'll give her a letter:

     

    To whom it may concern at the Dept. of Homeland Security:

    Margaret Doughty is an official member of the Atheist Church of Greater Boston (or wherever she lives). We do not believe in taking up arms against anyone, facist pigs, religious extremists, despots or whatever. We do not believe in using military force to keep routes of trade and access to raw materials open and secure.

    We want to live in peace with nature, stay warm at night and in the depths of winter, eat fresh fruit and vegetables year round (even in winter), and stare at our iPhone and iPad for Facebook.

    You boys take up arms to give us this and more. We are principled and refuse to participate.

    Friar Tuck

    Official Leader of the Atheist Church.

    (The Atheist Church is a 501c-3 charitable organization, certified by the Obama Administration retroactive to whenever needed)

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: Should Atheists Be Blocked From Becoming U.S. Citizens?

    Thats a ridiculous standard and absurd to boot, but the woman is making her life more difficult.  Just answer "yes" and be done with it.  No one is going to ask a 64 year old to defend the US. 

     
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    Re: Should Atheists Be Blocked From Becoming U.S. Citizens?

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

    Here, I'll give her a letter:

     

    To whom it may concern at the Dept. of Homeland Security:

    Margaret Doughty is an official member of the Atheist Church of Greater Boston (or wherever she lives). We do not believe in taking up arms against anyone, facist pigs, religious extremists, despots or whatever. We do not believe in using military force to keep routes of trade and access to raw materials open and secure.

    We want to live in peace with nature, stay warm at night and in the depths of winter, eat fresh fruit and vegetables year round (even in winter), and stare at our iPhone and iPad for Facebook.

    You boys take up arms to give us this and more. We are principled and refuse to participate.

    Friar Tuck

    Official Leader of the Atheist Church.

    (The Atheist Church is a 501c-3 charitable organization, certified by the Obama Administration retroactive to whenever needed)



    I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this atheist who has spent 30 years fighting illiteracy around the globe isn't a layabout complainer. 

    You on the other hand.....

     
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    Re: Should Atheists Be Blocked From Becoming U.S. Citizens?

    In response to UserName99's comment:

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Here, I'll give her a letter:

     

    To whom it may concern at the Dept. of Homeland Security:

    Margaret Doughty is an official member of the Atheist Church of Greater Boston (or wherever she lives). We do not believe in taking up arms against anyone, facist pigs, religious extremists, despots or whatever. We do not believe in using military force to keep routes of trade and access to raw materials open and secure.

    We want to live in peace with nature, stay warm at night and in the depths of winter, eat fresh fruit and vegetables year round (even in winter), and stare at our iPhone and iPad for Facebook.

    You boys take up arms to give us this and more. We are principled and refuse to participate.

    Friar Tuck

    Official Leader of the Atheist Church.

    (The Atheist Church is a 501c-3 charitable organization, certified by the Obama Administration retroactive to whenever needed)

     



    I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this atheist who has spent 30 years fighting illiteracy around the globe isn't a layabout complainer. 

     

    You on the other hand.....

    [/QUOTE]

    No she isn't a layabout complainer. She's just a complainer. She just wants the benefit of what a strong military provides without even making a meaningless commitment to take up arms in defense of the country she supposedly wants to live in. I mean really, what is the likelihood of the US needing this 64-year old dingbat to shoot a rifle or even do KP duty?

    What a hero. At least she isn't a chickenhawk like Obama.

    I wonder how much world travelling she would be doing without the military defending travel lanes and providing security at airports, etc?

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: Should Atheists Be Blocked From Becoming U.S. Citizens?

    Thats a ridiculous standard and absurd to boot, but the woman is making her life more difficult.  Just answer "yes" and be done with it.  No one is going to ask a 64 year old to defend the US.

    She's being honest and you have to respect that. On the other hand, unless she's willing to walk meekly to the execution line when they come to take her for her beliefs (or lack thereof) then she's being a hypocrite as Mr. Hansori pointed out.

    --

    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

     
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    Re: Should Atheists Be Blocked From Becoming U.S. Citizens?

    In response to GreginMeffa's comment:

    IMNSHO, that line has to go.  If the only exemption can be a religious one, then congress has in fact passed a law regarding the establishment of religion.




    Agreed.  That is the root of the problem.

     
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    Re: Should Atheists Be Blocked From Becoming U.S. Citizens?

    In response to UserName99's comment:

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Here, I'll give her a letter:

     

    To whom it may concern at the Dept. of Homeland Security:

    Margaret Doughty is an official member of the Atheist Church of Greater Boston (or wherever she lives). We do not believe in taking up arms against anyone, facist pigs, religious extremists, despots or whatever. We do not believe in using military force to keep routes of trade and access to raw materials open and secure.

    We want to live in peace with nature, stay warm at night and in the depths of winter, eat fresh fruit and vegetables year round (even in winter), and stare at our iPhone and iPad for Facebook.

    You boys take up arms to give us this and more. We are principled and refuse to participate.

    Friar Tuck

    Official Leader of the Atheist Church.

    (The Atheist Church is a 501c-3 charitable organization, certified by the Obama Administration retroactive to whenever needed)

     



    I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this atheist who has spent 30 years fighting illiteracy around the globe isn't a layabout complainer. 

     

    You on the other hand.....

    [/QUOTE]

    "fighting" illieracy, but won't lift a finger to "fight " for freedom and liberty?

    Let her go to Canada.  They like people like her up there.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Should Atheists Be Blocked From Becoming U.S. Citizens?

    In response to andiejen's comment:

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

     

    [QUOTE]Thats a ridiculous standard and absurd to boot, but the woman is making her life more difficult.  Just answer "yes" and be done with it.  No one is going to ask a 64 year old to defend the US.

     

     

    She's being honest and you have to respect that. On the other hand, unless she's willing to walk meekly to the execution line when they come to take her for her beliefs (or lack thereof) then she's being a hypocrite as Mr. Hansori pointed out.

    --

    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    SB,

     

    Below is her direct resonse to the issue at hand.

     

    “I am sure the law would never require a 64 year-old woman like myself to bear arms, but if I am required to answer this question, I cannot lie. I must be honest. The truth is that I would not be willing to bear arms. Since my youth I have had a firm, fixed and sincere objection to participation in war in any form or in the bearing of arms.  I deeply and sincerely believe that it is not moral or ethical to take another person’s life, and my lifelong spiritual/religious beliefs impose on me a duty of conscience not to contribute to warfare by taking up arms…my beliefs are as strong and deeply held as those who possess traditional religious beliefs and who believe in God…I want to make clear, however, that I am willing to perform work of national importance under civilian direction or to perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States if and when required by the law to do so.”

    I believe she is showing great courage is sticking to her personal moral code. She knows she could simply say yes and be done with it. 

    If you look at her exact words she says she is willing to perform "noncombatant service in the Armed Services of the United States".

    That is hardly opting out of defending our country. And where would a woman of her age and her skill sets better serve then in exactly that type of position.

    Nobody has any basis to accuse her of seeking attention. If they do they should have at least some source besides pure speculation.

     

    She is also not objecting on religious grounds but on moral grounds. This is also a violation of her 1st Amendment rights. There are other cases very similar where the system sided with the objector.

    Yes, it would be the pragmatic, easy thing to do to say what they want, get her well deserved citizenship and move on with her life. A lot of people would do jusr that. But she does not believe in taking another person's life. And many would have her throw her strongly held beliefs out the window. 

    I see her as a brave, ethical woman of great character who has been doing something besides piling up money for over 30 years. How many people can now read and write all over the globe because of her? That is a legacy. 

    And now, she is another example of not caving. Yet another legacy. No matter how this ultimate ends up for her. It is a lot harder to do what you believe in when the cost may be so dear. And a lot more courageous IMO.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    She is objecting to a bedrock principle of citizenship, defending it.

    No sympathy here on "moral" grounds.  Go to a country where that's the requirement, like Canada.

     
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    Re: Should Atheists Be Blocked From Becoming U.S. Citizens?

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to UserName99's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Here, I'll give her a letter:

     

    To whom it may concern at the Dept. of Homeland Security:

    Margaret Doughty is an official member of the Atheist Church of Greater Boston (or wherever she lives). We do not believe in taking up arms against anyone, facist pigs, religious extremists, despots or whatever. We do not believe in using military force to keep routes of trade and access to raw materials open and secure.

    We want to live in peace with nature, stay warm at night and in the depths of winter, eat fresh fruit and vegetables year round (even in winter), and stare at our iPhone and iPad for Facebook.

    You boys take up arms to give us this and more. We are principled and refuse to participate.

    Friar Tuck

    Official Leader of the Atheist Church.

    (The Atheist Church is a 501c-3 charitable organization, certified by the Obama Administration retroactive to whenever needed)

     

     



    I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this atheist who has spent 30 years fighting illiteracy around the globe isn't a layabout complainer. 

     

     

    You on the other hand.....

     

    [/QUOTE]

    "fighting" illieracy, but won't lift a finger to "fight " for freedom and liberty?

     

    Let her go to Canada.  They like people like her up there.

    [/QUOTE]

    You expect a 64 yr old woman to take up arms to fight for freedom and liberty? Seriously???

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: Should Atheists Be Blocked From Becoming U.S. Citizens?

    If you look at her exact words she says she is willing to perform "noncombatant service in the Armed Services of the United States".

    I'm cool with that.

     

    --

    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

     
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    Re: Should Atheists Be Blocked From Becoming U.S. Citizens?

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    She is objecting to a bedrock principle of citizenship, defending it.

    [/QUOTE]


    She can defend the nation without specifically taking up arms...i.e., The Point.

     
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