So, is the gas price high enough to crush the working man?

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    Re: So, is the gas price high enough to crush the working man?

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAnd2's comment:

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    "Don't like the high gas prices...?

    Then don't use so much gas.

    Pretty simple, really.

    Don't move to the sticks in order to drive 60 miles each way to work in traffic that makes it seem like 120, all while driving a 5+ litre monster SUV that gets 16 miles to the gallon."

     

    It's actually not that simple. Not everyone can control where they work. Not everyone can afford to live near their employer. Some people get transferred which is out of their control. Some people get laid off and have no choice but to take a job that might be farther from home than they's liked.

    Also, not everyone drives a monster SUV. Many who drive civics, which is great on gas mileage, still feel the pain because not everyone makes big money. Everyones situation is unique. Do you think you, making the money you make, feels the same pain at the pump as someone making 30-40K for example? 

     

     




     

     



    Spot on.

     

    And, liberals don't get it.  A car is a tool, and youu buy what you need.  Everyone's needs are different.  We can't all drive nissan LEAFs or PRius's.  they just don't meet our needs.

    Nor do they get that the role of governemnt is not to get us to use less gas, but to get out of the way of those who are trying to bring us more gas.  That would lower prices, however, and postpone the social engineering of the left on this issue.

     



    I get it just fine...better than you, in fact.

     

    Oil production keeps rising and so do prices as long as the demand is there and more cars are added to the road, so the facts don't bear out your claim of lowering prices.

    What kind of "tool" is needed for a single person commuting?  A mid-size sedan hybrid camry or altima gets upward of 30 mpg.

    One role of government is absolutely to preserve our natural resources and get the best return on it as possible.  Hence, the long overdue need for higher mileage standards that the auto companies fought for years.

     



    Oil production is rising on PRIVATE land, it is being slow-walked on PUBLIC land (including offshore).

    The Keystone pipeline is stopped because Obama wants to please a bunch of tree-hugging city dwellers in Cambridge and Seattle.

    I know you don't get more than a stone's throw from Mass Ave more than once or twice a year, but let me tell you:  most of the cars out on the road are practical.  BTW:  I don't single person commute.

    The role of governemnt, looking at it from the current energy policy, relative to the price of gas is to get out of the way. Period.  The no drilling on public lands, no pipelines, cap and trader, a bunch of liberal hoo hah crippling the economy.

     
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    Re: So, is the gas price high enough to crush the working man?

    In response to xXR3S1NXx's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to xXR3S1NXx's comment:

     

     


    Sweet. I have a 2001. Best Truck EVER. :)

     

     



    I had a T100 for a long time.  Outstanding truck.  200k+ miles

     

    (But then, I had a painting business it was used for.)

     



    See you cant run a painting buisness out of a Prius. Those Where cool trucks. Everbody made fun of Toyota pickups back in the day because the biggest motor they came with was a big V6, but now the big thing is putting more fuel efficiant V6's in Pickups. 

     



    Of course not, but that wasn't the point.

    That was my work truck.

    As a commuter vehicle, it was impractical.

     

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: So, is the gas price high enough to crush the working man?

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    The recource is having government focus on increasing supply rather that trying to make it so expensive no one except the rich can afford it.

    Currently, we have an administrtion that is out to make gas expensive and scarce.  Gotta change that.



    Except that you ignore the costs of oil beyond its extraction, transport and refining...costs which are very real on not always reflected in the price of gas itself.

    It's disingenuous to argue for increased supply of oil for lower short-term costs and yet oppose more sustainable energies with much lower long term environmental costs.

    And it's borderline insane to argue for more oil development while blocking increased standards for more fuel efficient engines.

     

     
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    Re: So, is the gas price high enough to crush the working man?

    In response to FortySixAnd2's comment:

    Based on past experience I will never buy another Ford. 

    Did you bring two bikes and two kayaks?


    Suit yourself.  I had an explorer go for 237k miles before trading it in, and I got a great deal.  I have no bias for or against any make of car, only against paying more than the car is worth.

    Two bikes. We rented a canoe when we got there.

    Same idea, different choices.

     

     
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    Re: So, is the gas price high enough to crush the working man?

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAnd2's comment:

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    "Don't like the high gas prices...?

    Then don't use so much gas.

    Pretty simple, really.

    Don't move to the sticks in order to drive 60 miles each way to work in traffic that makes it seem like 120, all while driving a 5+ litre monster SUV that gets 16 miles to the gallon."

     

    It's actually not that simple. Not everyone can control where they work. Not everyone can afford to live near their employer. Some people get transferred which is out of their control. Some people get laid off and have no choice but to take a job that might be farther from home than they's liked.

    Also, not everyone drives a monster SUV. Many who drive civics, which is great on gas mileage, still feel the pain because not everyone makes big money. Everyones situation is unique. Do you think you, making the money you make, feels the same pain at the pump as someone making 30-40K for example? 

     

     




     

     



    Spot on.

     

    And, liberals don't get it.  A car is a tool, and youu buy what you need.  Everyone's needs are different.  We can't all drive nissan LEAFs or PRius's.  they just don't meet our needs.

    Nor do they get that the role of governemnt is not to get us to use less gas, but to get out of the way of those who are trying to bring us more gas.  That would lower prices, however, and postpone the social engineering of the left on this issue.

     



    I get it just fine...better than you, in fact.

     

    Oil production keeps rising and so do prices as long as the demand is there and more cars are added to the road, so the facts don't bear out your claim of lowering prices.

    What kind of "tool" is needed for a single person commuting?  A mid-size sedan hybrid camry or altima gets upward of 30 mpg.

    One role of government is absolutely to preserve our natural resources and get the best return on it as possible.  Hence, the long overdue need for higher mileage standards that the auto companies fought for years.

     

     



    Oil production is rising on PRIVATE land, it is being slow-walked on PUBLIC land (including offshore).

    I know you don't get more than a stone's throw from Mass Ave more than once or twice a year, but let me tell you:  most of the cars out on the road are practical.  BTW:  I don't single person commute.

     



    Yeah, Shell tried drilling in the Arctic last year...it didn't go very well and they needed the evil govt to bail them out.

    And you're totally full of s**t, since my client indeed has an office ON Mass. Ave.

    Good for you.  Carpooling is rather responsible behavior.  Don't tell your anti-enviro brethren on the far right...to some of them, you are helping raise gas prices by reducing demand for oil.

     

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: So, is the gas price high enough to crush the working man?

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to FortySixAnd2's comment:

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

     

    And that's fine...for you.

     

     



    Exactly my point. You drive your Prius and I'll drive my truck. I don't care that you drive a Prius and you shouldn't care I drive a truck. To each his/her own I say

     

     




     

    It doesn't matter what you drive - you're likely to get far better fuel efficiency on your next car or truck than you do today.  And if you are really concerned about the price of gas, then you can probably find a hybrid of the model you like.  Silverados and Sierras both have hybrid models now.  You'll get 20-25% better fuel efficiency.  If you're getting 25% better fuel efficiency, and gas prices have increased 11% since Obama took office, you're ahead of the game even with a 4WD truck.

     



    Yeah but gas $1.86/gal the day Obama took office the first time.

     
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    Re: So, is the gas price high enough to crush the working man?

    In response to airborne-rgr's comment:

     

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAnd2's comment:

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

     

    And that's fine...for you.

     

     



    Exactly my point. You drive your Prius and I'll drive my truck. I don't care that you drive a Prius and you shouldn't care I drive a truck. To each his/her own I say

     

     




     

    It doesn't matter what you drive - you're likely to get far better fuel efficiency on your next car or truck than you do today.  And if you are really concerned about the price of gas, then you can probably find a hybrid of the model you like.  Silverados and Sierras both have hybrid models now.  You'll get 20-25% better fuel efficiency.  If you're getting 25% better fuel efficiency, and gas prices have increased 11% since Obama took office, you're ahead of the game even with a 4WD truck.

     

     



    Yeah but gas $1.86/gal the day Obama took office the first time.

     

     




     

    Hmmmmm Let's see ... to get to $1.86/gal from $4.10/gal you have to destroy the US economy and sink it to a level not seen in almost a century....

    Ya, I'll keep gas where it's at thanks.

     

     



    Ok, let's go back to a reasonable number outside of the collapse.  In reality we should be looking for policies to support $80 bbl oil and gas below $2.75/gal.  These would be good for the economy while supporting the need for a more varied energy supply.  Oil price control is also an extreme burdon on people in the norhern climates who depend on it for heating.

     

    Mideast oil volatility just causes endless spikes in fuel costs.  With stability it would be more palatable to have a real discussion concerning transportation infrastructure investment.  We need to increase the gas tax $0.15 to $0.20 per gallon and with volatile prices this is a hard conversation to have, but with stability we could support a gas price below $3/gal, say $2.90-$2.95.

     

     

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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: So, is the gas price high enough to crush the working man?

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    Does the right wish for Obama to nationalize all oil production in the U.S. and set price controls for imported oil?

    Do they simply not understand how a global oil market works?

     

    Or should I file this under "stoned college kid complained about Bush and Oil, therefore, people who should and in fact do know better are entitled to make the same stupid non-complaints about Obama on the he-started-it- theory" ?



    Oil price volitilty comes from too much oil coming from politically unstable areas.  Lessen the dependence of these areas, volitility comes down resulting in more price stability.

     
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    Re: So, is the gas price high enough to crush the working man?

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAnd2's comment:

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    "Don't like the high gas prices...?

    Then don't use so much gas.

    Pretty simple, really.

    Don't move to the sticks in order to drive 60 miles each way to work in traffic that makes it seem like 120, all while driving a 5+ litre monster SUV that gets 16 miles to the gallon."

     

    It's actually not that simple. Not everyone can control where they work. Not everyone can afford to live near their employer. Some people get transferred which is out of their control. Some people get laid off and have no choice but to take a job that might be farther from home than they's liked.

    Also, not everyone drives a monster SUV. Many who drive civics, which is great on gas mileage, still feel the pain because not everyone makes big money. Everyones situation is unique. Do you think you, making the money you make, feels the same pain at the pump as someone making 30-40K for example? 

     

     




     

     



    Spot on.

     

    And, liberals don't get it.  A car is a tool, and youu buy what you need.  Everyone's needs are different.  We can't all drive nissan LEAFs or PRius's.  they just don't meet our needs.

    Nor do they get that the role of governemnt is not to get us to use less gas, but to get out of the way of those who are trying to bring us more gas.  That would lower prices, however, and postpone the social engineering of the left on this issue.

     



    I get it just fine...better than you, in fact.

     

    Oil production keeps rising and so do prices as long as the demand is there and more cars are added to the road, so the facts don't bear out your claim of lowering prices.

    What kind of "tool" is needed for a single person commuting?  A mid-size sedan hybrid camry or altima gets upward of 30 mpg.

    One role of government is absolutely to preserve our natural resources and get the best return on it as possible.  Hence, the long overdue need for higher mileage standards that the auto companies fought for years.

     

     



    Oil production is rising on PRIVATE land, it is being slow-walked on PUBLIC land (including offshore).

    I know you don't get more than a stone's throw from Mass Ave more than once or twice a year, but let me tell you:  most of the cars out on the road are practical.  BTW:  I don't single person commute.

     

     



    Yeah, Shell tried drilling in the Arctic last year...it didn't go very well and they needed the evil govt to bail them out.

     

    And you're totally full of s**t, since my client indeed has an office ON Mass. Ave.

    Good for you.  Carpooling is rather responsible behavior.  Don't tell your anti-enviro brethren on the far right...to some of them, you are helping raise gas prices by reducing demand for oil.

     

     



    Shell got a bailout?  Well, they shouldn't have, but I am willing to bet oyu have no proof of that claim. 

    Your client (singular) in ON Mass ave?  Like I said, your real-world experience is limited to what happens within a couple of blocks of Mass Ave.  And I don't mean the frontier of Arlington.

    Out here in the real world, we realize paying more for gas is crippling our economy, both nationally and personally.  

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: So, is the gas price high enough to crush the working man?

    In response to airborne-rgr's comment:

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

     

    In response to airborne-rgr's comment:

     

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAnd2's comment:

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

     

    And that's fine...for you.

     

     



    Exactly my point. You drive your Prius and I'll drive my truck. I don't care that you drive a Prius and you shouldn't care I drive a truck. To each his/her own I say

     

     




     

    It doesn't matter what you drive - you're likely to get far better fuel efficiency on your next car or truck than you do today.  And if you are really concerned about the price of gas, then you can probably find a hybrid of the model you like.  Silverados and Sierras both have hybrid models now.  You'll get 20-25% better fuel efficiency.  If you're getting 25% better fuel efficiency, and gas prices have increased 11% since Obama took office, you're ahead of the game even with a 4WD truck.

     

     



    Yeah but gas $1.86/gal the day Obama took office the first time.

     

     




     

    Hmmmmm Let's see ... to get to $1.86/gal from $4.10/gal you have to destroy the US economy and sink it to a level not seen in almost a century....

    Ya, I'll keep gas where it's at thanks.

     

     



    Ok, let's go back to a reasonable number outside of the collapse.  In reality we should be looking for policies to support $80 bbl oil and gas below $2.75/gal.  These would be good for the economy while supporting the need for a more varied energy supply.  Oil price control is also an extreme burdon on people in the norhern climates who depend on it for heating.

     

    Mideast oil volatility just causes endless spikes in fuel costs.  With stability it would be more palatable to have a real discussion concerning transportation infrastructure investment.  We need to increase the gas tax $0.15 to $0.20 per gallon and with volatile prices this is a hard conversation to have, but with stability we could support a gas price below $3/gal, say $2.90-$2.95.

     

     

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    Well first of all the federal gas tax 19 cents and 25 cents diesel. So a 15-20 cent hike would take that to between $0.35 and $0.45 per gallon, not including state taxes. That would mean that fuel woul need to be in the $2.35-$2.45/gal. wholesale cost to keep it under $3/gal retail.

     

    The "drill-baby-drill" meme has already been proven false by the current administration.

     

    You know the story. When Obama took office:

    • Gasoline cost $1.95/gallon and oil, $45

    But now (3/2/12)

    • Gasoline costs $3.72/gallon and oil, $125

     

    Incredible. And we understand—because our politicians explained it to us, like so ...

     

    1. We should've drilled.
    2. But Obama and his EPA stopped us.
    3. So the supply of oil went down.

    And, that pushes the price up, and high oil prices cause high gas prices. If we had drilled, supply would be up and the price would be down. Maybe down to $1.00/gal like under Clinton (March 1999).

    Free. Many Varieties 

    So I dare you to guess which Obama scenario on the graph above is correct. Don't cheat. Guess before you click to see the answer. Don't believe it? — See for yourself where the data comes from.

    Shocking but true:

    1. We did "drill baby drill" â€” like never before.
    2. Obama didn't stop us.
      • Just ask the upset Sierra Club.
    3. The US supply of oil went up the most since 1970.

    Under Obama, drilling has skyrocketed as never before, and the price of gas went from $1.95 to $3.95 (April 1, 2012).  There's a reason.

     

    active-drilling-quiz.png



    Do you get some Dem play book every day of issues and what to spout when something comes up, and today they're from zfacts.com?

    I was talking about a reasonable price of fuel and based on $80bbl oil it would tie to a histroical rate of approxiamtely $2.75/gal at today's gas tax rates.  Given that price I said there was an ability to increase the gas tax $0.15/gal, this is one of Gov Patrick's initiatives and NH is getting ready to vote a similar gas tax increase.  Yes the Fed's haven't raised their rate since the 90's and they do need an equivalent increase.  So a pump price of $2.75/gal at current fed and state taxes would increase to $3.05/gal if we had stability and we added $0.30/gal in combined taxes.  We could handle that and it would build a better infrastructure and build the economy.

    Rigs under Obama has incresed on private lands inspite of his administrations efforts and rigs on public lands is stagnant.  More North American oil means less dependence of foreign oil from unstable countries that don't like the west any. Stability in supply equates to less speculation influences and price stability.

     
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    Re: So, is the gas price high enough to crush the working man?

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    Shell got a bailout?  Well, they shouldn't have, but I am willing to bet oyu have no proof of that claim. 

    Your client (singular) in ON Mass ave?  Like I said, your real-world experience is limited to what happens within a couple of blocks of Mass Ave.  And I don't mean the frontier of Arlington.

    Out here in the real world, we realize paying more for gas is crippling our economy, both nationally and personally.  



    Shell had to be physically rescued by the feds from their arctic drilling debacle. (not "bailout" in the bush sense)

    You really have no earthly clue what my experiences entail, but judging by the debates here, yours seems to consistently come up short.  As a private consultant, I am beholden to ALL of my clients to get them the best return possible on their investment.  I simply don't have your privilege of standing still.

    Your sense of entitlement to cheap gas is the only "crippling" thing about your argument.

     

     
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    Re: So, is the gas price high enough to crush the working man?

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAnd2's comment:

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

     

    And that's fine...for you.

     

     



    Exactly my point. You drive your Prius and I'll drive my truck. I don't care that you drive a Prius and you shouldn't care I drive a truck. To each his/her own I say

     

     




     

    It doesn't matter what you drive - you're likely to get far better fuel efficiency on your next car or truck than you do today.  And if you are really concerned about the price of gas, then you can probably find a hybrid of the model you like.  Silverados and Sierras both have hybrid models now.  You'll get 20-25% better fuel efficiency.  If you're getting 25% better fuel efficiency, and gas prices have increased 11% since Obama took office, you're ahead of the game even with a 4WD truck.

     

     



    Yeah but gas $1.86/gal the day Obama took office the first time.

     




    Why do conservatives keep saying this - do you think the price of gas should be $1.86 right now?  Do you think that a value on one day is more telling than an annual average?  Why do you guys keep saying this?  If you really believed this, you should not only lose power, you should not be allowed to live alone.

    This, by the way, is proof IMO that energy prices have nothing to do with supply and demand - only a frightened stock market separates $1.86 gas from $3.80 gas.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: So, is the gas price high enough to crush the working man?

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAnd2's comment:

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

     

    And that's fine...for you.

     

     



    Exactly my point. You drive your Prius and I'll drive my truck. I don't care that you drive a Prius and you shouldn't care I drive a truck. To each his/her own I say

     

     




     

    It doesn't matter what you drive - you're likely to get far better fuel efficiency on your next car or truck than you do today.  And if you are really concerned about the price of gas, then you can probably find a hybrid of the model you like.  Silverados and Sierras both have hybrid models now.  You'll get 20-25% better fuel efficiency.  If you're getting 25% better fuel efficiency, and gas prices have increased 11% since Obama took office, you're ahead of the game even with a 4WD truck.

     

     



    Yeah but gas $1.86/gal the day Obama took office the first time.

     

     




     

    Why do conservatives keep saying this - do you think the price of gas should be $1.86 right now?  Do you think that a value on one day is more telling than an annual average?  Why do you guys keep saying this?  If you really believed this, you should not only lose power, you should not be allowed to live alone.

    This, by the way, is proof IMO that energy prices have nothing to do with supply and demand - only a frightened stock market separates $1.86 gas from $3.80 gas.

     



    yes, it was a low lying fruit answere and I answered most of this separately above.

    Energy prices are directly tied to supply and demand and the impact of instability in supply due to the large middleeast source.

    In Jan 2009, demand tanked the commute was great for those with a job due to the massive job losses.

     

     

     
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    Re: So, is the gas price high enough to crush the working man?

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

    The recource is having government focus on increasing supply rather that trying to make it so expensive no one except the rich can afford it.

    Currently, we have an administrtion that is out to make gas expensive and scarce.  Gotta change that.

     



    Except that you ignore the costs of oil beyond its extraction, transport and refining...costs which are very real on not always reflected in the price of gas itself.

     

    It's disingenuous to argue for increased supply of oil for lower short-term costs and yet oppose more sustainable energies with much lower long term environmental costs.

    And it's borderline insane to argue for more oil development while blocking increased standards for more fuel efficient engines.

     



    Not ignoring it. We need to build new refineries as well.

    i am not opposing sustainable or alternative forms of energy. In fact , I welcome them, when they become cost effective.  In some cases, I am actually spending more than what is cost effective.  My house, for example, has been almost completely converted over to led lighting, at a significant cost.  Effective alternative energy for autos and electricity are currently pipe dreams, so gimme gas and coal.

    i'm unaware of car companies "blocking" increased standards for more fuel efficient engines. Maybe the standards are unattainable?  I seem to remember reading something about that being the problem.

    but, the US government owns the auto industry, so, why not just demand it?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: So, is the gas price high enough to crush the working man?

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAnd2's comment:

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

     

    And that's fine...for you.

     

     



    Exactly my point. You drive your Prius and I'll drive my truck. I don't care that you drive a Prius and you shouldn't care I drive a truck. To each his/her own I say

     

     




     

    It doesn't matter what you drive - you're likely to get far better fuel efficiency on your next car or truck than you do today.  And if you are really concerned about the price of gas, then you can probably find a hybrid of the model you like.  Silverados and Sierras both have hybrid models now.  You'll get 20-25% better fuel efficiency.  If you're getting 25% better fuel efficiency, and gas prices have increased 11% since Obama took office, you're ahead of the game even with a 4WD truck.

     

     



    Yeah but gas $1.86/gal the day Obama took office the first time.

     

     




     

    Why do conservatives keep saying this - do you think the price of gas should be $1.86 right now?  Do you think that a value on one day is more telling than an annual average?  Why do you guys keep saying this?  If you really believed this, you should not only lose power, you should not be allowed to live alone.

    This, by the way, is proof IMO that energy prices have nothing to do with supply and demand - only a frightened stock market separates $1.86 gas from $3.80 gas.

     

     



    yes, it was a low lying fruit answere and I answered most of this separately above.

     

    Energy prices are directly tied to supply and demand and the impact of instability in supply due to the large middleeast source.

    In Jan 2009, demand tanked the commute was great for those with a job due to the massive job losses.

     

     




    Gas prices dropped 60% in 4 months - how much do you think demand dropped?  I'd guess 5% at most.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: So, is the gas price high enough to crush the working man?

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAnd2's comment:

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

     

    And that's fine...for you.

     

     



    Exactly my point. You drive your Prius and I'll drive my truck. I don't care that you drive a Prius and you shouldn't care I drive a truck. To each his/her own I say

     

     




     

    It doesn't matter what you drive - you're likely to get far better fuel efficiency on your next car or truck than you do today.  And if you are really concerned about the price of gas, then you can probably find a hybrid of the model you like.  Silverados and Sierras both have hybrid models now.  You'll get 20-25% better fuel efficiency.  If you're getting 25% better fuel efficiency, and gas prices have increased 11% since Obama took office, you're ahead of the game even with a 4WD truck.

     

     



    Yeah but gas $1.86/gal the day Obama took office the first time.

     

     




     

    Why do conservatives keep saying this - do you think the price of gas should be $1.86 right now?  Do you think that a value on one day is more telling than an annual average?  Why do you guys keep saying this?  If you really believed this, you should not only lose power, you should not be allowed to live alone.

    This, by the way, is proof IMO that energy prices have nothing to do with supply and demand - only a frightened stock market separates $1.86 gas from $3.80 gas.

     

     



    yes, it was a low lying fruit answere and I answered most of this separately above.

     

    Energy prices are directly tied to supply and demand and the impact of instability in supply due to the large middleeast source.

    In Jan 2009, demand tanked the commute was great for those with a job due to the massive job losses.

     

     

     




     

    Gas prices dropped 60% in 4 months - how much do you think demand dropped?  I'd guess 5% at most.

     



    The price of oil is complex as its tied to a number of driviers:

    Supply and demand in general modified by; speculation on wall street driven by supply concerns  or the instability in large production areas.  There is also the NIMBY refinery and pipeline problem that drives transportation costs.  More North American oil would reduce dependence on middle east oil and make supply less uncertain.  More north american oil means a better economy, more north american jobs, less money going to the middle east.  A win for the economy and a bonus for our national security.  This was McCain's Energy Independence plan, which was also the heart of Huntsman's plan.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: So, is the gas price high enough to crush the working man?

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    Effective alternative energy for autos and electricity are currently pipe dreams, so gimme gas and coal.

     

     


    Not true.  Alternative energy sources are proliferating exponentially throughout the globe on a mass scale.  Plug-in cars - as well as natural gas and hybrids - are being mass-produced and are extremely viable, especially for developing nations, but also for first-world economies

    Coal plants everywhere are being converted to or replaced with natural gas - and not because coal is cheap (or some delirious fantasy about Obama or anyone else "killing coal"), but because the environmental costs of burning coal far outweigh the short-term fixed costs of the electricity it produces.

    In the meantime, however, our best courses of action include implementation of energy efficiencies (like your LEDs), higher mileage standards for autos, fleet conversions, continued public and private investment in sustainable energies, and - most critically - the modernization of our rapidly deteriorating power grid.

    This is my current business vertical, and I see these decisions being made every day.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: So, is the gas price high enough to crush the working man?

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    Effective alternative energy for autos and electricity are currently pipe dreams, so gimme gas and coal.

     

     


    Not true.  Alternative energy sources are proliferating exponentially throughout the globe on a mass scale.  Plug-in cars - as well as natural gas and hybrids - are being mass-produced and are extremely viable, especially for developing nations, but also for first-world economies

    Coal plants everywhere are being converted to or replaced with natural gas - and not because coal is cheap (or some delirious fantasy about Obama or anyone else "killing coal"), but because the environmental costs of burning coal far outweigh the short-term fixed costs of the electricity it produces.

    In the meantime, however, our best courses of action include implementation of energy efficiencies (like your LEDs), higher mileage standards for autos, fleet conversions, continued public and private investment in sustainable energies, and - most critically - the modernization of our rapidly deteriorating power grid.

    This is my current business vertical, and I see these decisions being made every day.

     



    Alternative energy solutions are only truly vialbe when the benefit (in dollars) outweighs the cost.

    I'm sorry, but alternative fuels for transportation are a pipe dream, and only have any success at all when subsidized by government.

    That Whole Foods has electric charging stations and Market Basket does not,  tells you all you need to know about it's viability.

    But, let me be clear:   But, you can't really make alternative fuels more viable by making existing fuels more expensive.  The only thing you do is crowd out the lower and middle classes, raising their cost of transportation to enormoughly high levels, while the swells prattle around town, stop off at Whole Foods in their Leafs and Prius's

     

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