So, is the gas price high enough to crush the working man?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: So, is the gas price high enough to crush the working man?

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

    I particularly like the point of view that the average man has to suffer in order for the regulators to reign in the big energy users.  So compassionate of the left.

     

     

    Except nobody is saying that except you.  Even if they were, the gopers haven't done a single thing to help on their part and may in fact have hurt the cause with their gross abdication of meaningful governance.

     



    Matty, that's what you post indicates. Funny how you are responding to the point. Gult setting in?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: So, is the gas price high enough to crush the working man?

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    Here's what I've gotten out of this thread:

    the left will talk about alternative fuels.

    the left will talk about how world markets control everything.

    the left will construct the most complicated, scope widening arguments.

    but, not a one of them will admit or even discuss that Obama's energy policy is raising the price oaf gas at the pump, even though it is the stated opinion of the Obama administration to do so.

    glad we settled that.

     



    And the right will rail against an 11% annual average increase in gas prices under Obama, while ignoring a 111% increase under Bush.

     

    IMO, until you can explain 2008 - no change to the permitting process, no change to refineries, no changes in import restrictions, negligible change to demand, massive stock market panic = 60% drop in fuel prices.  Until you can explain that, you're spinning your wheels on everything else.

     

     




    Didn't ignore anything under Bush, but what you lefties forget is that the past is gone, it ain't coming back.  Live in the here and now.

     

    Living in the here and now is what the left did so well during the Bush years:  nightly reminders about the rise in gas prices, nightly reminders about how Bush was an oil man, and how he was responsible.

    Now that it is Obama who is unable to control the price of gas, all you can do is pin the blame on Bush.

     

    Weak.

     

     

     

    No, what's weak is pining for gas prices from 12 years ago, and pinning the blame on the administration that saw gas prices increase 10% in four years, rather than the administration that saw gas prices more than double in 8 of those years.

    Bush moved the baseline - if we had 10% increase every four years of the Bush administration, gas would be $2/gallon.  If we had 50% increase every four years under Obama, gas would be $6/gallon.

    Strong.

    FYI, I don't actually blame Bush for this - I think it can be traced back to a Clinton bill passed in 2000 that de-regulated OTC derivatives, and let speculation run up the cost of gas.  I do think the wars, particularly Iraq gave the oil companies a cover story for ridiculous prices, and obviously the administration didn't do anything about it, and when the Dems took over Congress, Republicans in the minority blocked any attempts to fix it.

     

     



    I stipulate  every single item in the Bush energy policy.

     

    now, tell me.  What is Obama doing to fix things, other than blame Bush?

     



    He's released strategic reserves to kept speculators from getting too comfortable, and he's raised CAFE standards and invested in technologies that will help you get more miles out of your next car.

    Meanwhile, Republicans in the senate have blocked (yes, Skeeter, yet another example of the minority party blocking helpful legislation - what a shocker) a bill restoring some regulations for oil speculators.  Sherrod Brown is now working on a similar new bill - we'll see what happens.  Actually, we already know what will happen. 

     

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: So, is the gas price high enough to crush the working man?

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

    I particularly like the point of view that the average man has to suffer in order for the regulators to reign in the big energy users.  So compassionate of the left.

     

     

    Except nobody is saying that except you.  Even if they were, the gopers haven't done a single thing to help on their part and may in fact have hurt the cause with their gross abdication of meaningful governance.

     

     



    Matty, that's what you post indicates. Funny how you are responding to the point. Gult setting in?

     



    No, that's NOT what it indicates.  The point you're missing is that the energy markets are not set up to favor the individual consumer at the pump.  Never were.  

    This is only partially the government's fault, but mostly the fossil fuel companies' fault, because they have the cash and connections to rig the game in their favor and try to crush opposing energy sources to preserve their hegemony.

     

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: So, is the gas price high enough to crush the working man?

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    Here's what I've gotten out of this thread:

    the left will talk about alternative fuels.

    the left will talk about how world markets control everything.

    the left will construct the most complicated, scope widening arguments.

    but, not a one of them will admit or even discuss that Obama's energy policy is raising the price oaf gas at the pump, even though it is the stated opinion of the Obama administration to do so.

    glad we settled that.

     



    And the right will rail against an 11% annual average increase in gas prices under Obama, while ignoring a 111% increase under Bush.

     

    IMO, until you can explain 2008 - no change to the permitting process, no change to refineries, no changes in import restrictions, negligible change to demand, massive stock market panic = 60% drop in fuel prices.  Until you can explain that, you're spinning your wheels on everything else.

     

     




    Didn't ignore anything under Bush, but what you lefties forget is that the past is gone, it ain't coming back.  Live in the here and now.

     

    Living in the here and now is what the left did so well during the Bush years:  nightly reminders about the rise in gas prices, nightly reminders about how Bush was an oil man, and how he was responsible.

    Now that it is Obama who is unable to control the price of gas, all you can do is pin the blame on Bush.

     

    Weak.

     

     

     

    No, what's weak is pining for gas prices from 12 years ago, and pinning the blame on the administration that saw gas prices increase 10% in four years, rather than the administration that saw gas prices more than double in 8 of those years.

    Bush moved the baseline - if we had 10% increase every four years of the Bush administration, gas would be $2/gallon.  If we had 50% increase every four years under Obama, gas would be $6/gallon.

    Strong.

    FYI, I don't actually blame Bush for this - I think it can be traced back to a Clinton bill passed in 2000 that de-regulated OTC derivatives, and let speculation run up the cost of gas.  I do think the wars, particularly Iraq gave the oil companies a cover story for ridiculous prices, and obviously the administration didn't do anything about it, and when the Dems took over Congress, Republicans in the minority blocked any attempts to fix it.

     

     



    I stipulate  every single item in the Bush energy policy.

     

    now, tell me.  What is Obama doing to fix things, other than blame Bush?

     

     



     

    He's released strategic reserves to kept speculators from getting too comfortable, and he's raised CAFE standards and invested in technologies that will help you get more miles out of your next car.

    Meanwhile, Republicans in the senate have blocked (yes, Skeeter, yet another example of the minority party blocking helpful legislation - what a shocker) a bill restoring some regulations for oil speculators.  Sherrod Brown is now working on a similar new bill - we'll see what happens.  Actually, we already know what will happen. 

     

     

     



    Yet, the price is still high.  Hmm.

    And you do realize that having to release some of the strategic reserve shows the weakness in Obama's enegy strategy?

    If this was happenening under Bush, there would be nightly liveshots from gas pumps and caterwahling about the apparent callousness of the president.

    Yet, in the time of Obama, none of that. We have competing liberal claims that he can do nothing, and that he is using the strategic reserve to control prices.

    And, of course, it is the evil speculators that are really at fault.  I'd have to look at the specific legislation to see if it all you apparently think it is, or just another Ed Markey idea that in the end tucks it to the consumers.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: So, is the gas price high enough to crush the working man?

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    How is that of solace to the average working man, that they are not the largest users of energy?  Does that make it any easier when they have to tell their kids that they can't have a new bike, or go too see a movie, because Obama felt it was more important that they pay more for gasoline, heat, and electricity?

     

    I guess your suggestion that the average working man use less, maybe not go to work every day, maybe sit in the dark in a cold house, makes sense to an unfeeling unthinking government hack.

     



    OK, now you're just getting emotional and clouding your judgment.  You're not making a lick of sense and are making sh*te up, to boot.

     

    You're wasting my time.

     



    Here is what you said:

    " that the #1 thing people can do to lower their energy costs is USE LESS."

    That's the height of comapssion. 

    How about:

        opening up offshore drilling

        Open up ANWAR

        Let the the Keystone Pipeline be built

        lowering federal gas taxes

    and a host of things I forgot.

    Now, that would be compassionate.  Telling people who are struggling to USE LESS, well, that liberal paper hanging over a problem Obama refuses to help fix.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: So, is the gas price high enough to crush the working man?

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    Here's what I've gotten out of this thread:

    the left will talk about alternative fuels.

    the left will talk about how world markets control everything.

    the left will construct the most complicated, scope widening arguments.

    but, not a one of them will admit or even discuss that Obama's energy policy is raising the price oaf gas at the pump, even though it is the stated opinion of the Obama administration to do so.

    glad we settled that.

     



    And the right will rail against an 11% annual average increase in gas prices under Obama, while ignoring a 111% increase under Bush.

     

    IMO, until you can explain 2008 - no change to the permitting process, no change to refineries, no changes in import restrictions, negligible change to demand, massive stock market panic = 60% drop in fuel prices.  Until you can explain that, you're spinning your wheels on everything else.

     

     




    Didn't ignore anything under Bush, but what you lefties forget is that the past is gone, it ain't coming back.  Live in the here and now.

     

    Living in the here and now is what the left did so well during the Bush years:  nightly reminders about the rise in gas prices, nightly reminders about how Bush was an oil man, and how he was responsible.

    Now that it is Obama who is unable to control the price of gas, all you can do is pin the blame on Bush.

     

    Weak.

     

     

     

    No, what's weak is pining for gas prices from 12 years ago, and pinning the blame on the administration that saw gas prices increase 10% in four years, rather than the administration that saw gas prices more than double in 8 of those years.

    Bush moved the baseline - if we had 10% increase every four years of the Bush administration, gas would be $2/gallon.  If we had 50% increase every four years under Obama, gas would be $6/gallon.

    Strong.

    FYI, I don't actually blame Bush for this - I think it can be traced back to a Clinton bill passed in 2000 that de-regulated OTC derivatives, and let speculation run up the cost of gas.  I do think the wars, particularly Iraq gave the oil companies a cover story for ridiculous prices, and obviously the administration didn't do anything about it, and when the Dems took over Congress, Republicans in the minority blocked any attempts to fix it.

     

     



    I stipulate  every single item in the Bush energy policy.

     

    now, tell me.  What is Obama doing to fix things, other than blame Bush?

     

     



     

    He's released strategic reserves to kept speculators from getting too comfortable, and he's raised CAFE standards and invested in technologies that will help you get more miles out of your next car.

    Meanwhile, Republicans in the senate have blocked (yes, Skeeter, yet another example of the minority party blocking helpful legislation - what a shocker) a bill restoring some regulations for oil speculators.  Sherrod Brown is now working on a similar new bill - we'll see what happens.  Actually, we already know what will happen. 

     

     

     



    Yet, the price is still high.  Hmm.

    And you do realize that having to release some of the strategic reserve shows the weakness in Obama's enegy strategy?

    If this was happenening under Bush, there would be nightly liveshots from gas pumps and caterwahling about the apparent callousness of the president.

    Yet, in the time of Obama, none of that. We have competing liberal claims that he can do nothing, and that he is using the strategic reserve to control prices.

    And, of course, it is the evil speculators that are really at fault.  I'd have to look at the specific legislation to see if it all you apparently think it is, or just another Ed Markey idea that in the end tucks it to the consumers.

     



    Again, if you want to mock the idea that speculation is the most significant factor in gas prices, then please explain 2008 - 2009, where the only factor that changed was stock market panic, and gas prices plummeted.

    This was happening under Bush - the fact that you even wrote that sentence speaks volumes.  Gas was over $4/gallon in the summer of 2008.  Where were you?

    There's no competing claims.  What can Obama do to bring down the price of gas?  Not much - he can raise the CAFE standards to help you get more out of your next vehicle.  And he can release or threaten release of strategic reserves to frighten speculators from buying up futures commodities they don't need, like they're shares of Apple.  Oh, and don't start any wars in the Middle East.  That's pretty much it - he's done all he can.

    What can Congress do?  Maybe something like the Oil Speculation Reduction Act of 2008 ... http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/hr6279

    What can Republicans in the Senate do?  Stop wiping their a55es with the constitution, and stop filibustering legislation like the Oil Speculation Reduction Act of 2008.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: So, is the gas price high enough to crush the working man?

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    Here's what I've gotten out of this thread:

    the left will talk about alternative fuels.

    the left will talk about how world markets control everything.

    the left will construct the most complicated, scope widening arguments.

    but, not a one of them will admit or even discuss that Obama's energy policy is raising the price oaf gas at the pump, even though it is the stated opinion of the Obama administration to do so.

    glad we settled that.

     



    And the right will rail against an 11% annual average increase in gas prices under Obama, while ignoring a 111% increase under Bush.

     

    IMO, until you can explain 2008 - no change to the permitting process, no change to refineries, no changes in import restrictions, negligible change to demand, massive stock market panic = 60% drop in fuel prices.  Until you can explain that, you're spinning your wheels on everything else.

     

     




    Didn't ignore anything under Bush, but what you lefties forget is that the past is gone, it ain't coming back.  Live in the here and now.

     

    Living in the here and now is what the left did so well during the Bush years:  nightly reminders about the rise in gas prices, nightly reminders about how Bush was an oil man, and how he was responsible.

    Now that it is Obama who is unable to control the price of gas, all you can do is pin the blame on Bush.

     

    Weak.

     

     

     

    No, what's weak is pining for gas prices from 12 years ago, and pinning the blame on the administration that saw gas prices increase 10% in four years, rather than the administration that saw gas prices more than double in 8 of those years.

    Bush moved the baseline - if we had 10% increase every four years of the Bush administration, gas would be $2/gallon.  If we had 50% increase every four years under Obama, gas would be $6/gallon.

    Strong.

    FYI, I don't actually blame Bush for this - I think it can be traced back to a Clinton bill passed in 2000 that de-regulated OTC derivatives, and let speculation run up the cost of gas.  I do think the wars, particularly Iraq gave the oil companies a cover story for ridiculous prices, and obviously the administration didn't do anything about it, and when the Dems took over Congress, Republicans in the minority blocked any attempts to fix it.

     

     



    I stipulate  every single item in the Bush energy policy.

     

    now, tell me.  What is Obama doing to fix things, other than blame Bush?

     

     



     

    He's released strategic reserves to kept speculators from getting too comfortable, and he's raised CAFE standards and invested in technologies that will help you get more miles out of your next car.

    Meanwhile, Republicans in the senate have blocked (yes, Skeeter, yet another example of the minority party blocking helpful legislation - what a shocker) a bill restoring some regulations for oil speculators.  Sherrod Brown is now working on a similar new bill - we'll see what happens.  Actually, we already know what will happen. 

     

     

     



    Yet, the price is still high.  Hmm.

    And you do realize that having to release some of the strategic reserve shows the weakness in Obama's enegy strategy?

    If this was happenening under Bush, there would be nightly liveshots from gas pumps and caterwahling about the apparent callousness of the president.

    Yet, in the time of Obama, none of that. We have competing liberal claims that he can do nothing, and that he is using the strategic reserve to control prices.

    And, of course, it is the evil speculators that are really at fault.  I'd have to look at the specific legislation to see if it all you apparently think it is, or just another Ed Markey idea that in the end tucks it to the consumers.

     

     



    Again, if you want to mock the idea that speculation is the most significant factor in gas prices, then please explain 2008 - 2009, where the only factor that changed was stock market panic, and gas prices plummeted.

     

    This was happening under Bush - the fact that you even wrote that sentence speaks volumes.  Gas was over $4/gallon in the summer of 2008.  Where were you?

    There's no competing claims.  What can Obama do to bring down the price of gas?  Not much - he can raise the CAFE standards to help you get more out of your next vehicle.  And he can release or threaten release of strategic reserves to frighten speculators from buying up futures commodities they don't need, like they're shares of Apple.  Oh, and don't start any wars in the Middle East.  That's pretty much it - he's done all he can.

    What can Congress do?  Maybe something like the Oil Speculation Reduction Act of 2008 ... http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/hr6279

    What can Republicans in the Senate do?  Stop wiping their a55es with the constitution, and stop filibustering legislation like the Oil Speculation Reduction Act of 2008.

     




    Not mocking the idea that speculation has an impact, just mocking the idea that it is bad in comparison to the alternative, i.e. government set prices.

    Look, if we really want a free market, you pay what the market charges, right?

    Everything the government does here distorts the market. You want to "control" prices?  Get government out of the way and let the oil flow.

     

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