So, life begins at birth, right?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: So, life begins at birth, right?

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    I'm done.

     

    Praise Jeebus!

     

     

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    There are flipping nutballs on either side of the aisle, and this is one of them.

    This person is advocating first degree murder.



    More cognitive dissonance.

     




     

    There is necessarily a vague area of dissonance for abortion supporters, as the fetus approaches viability, and I don't think anyone can fairly deny that.

    Obviously, if it is possible in some cases for a fetus that survives a botched abortion to be kept alive with the right medical care - and that abortion is before the average viability date - abortion supporters are supporting the right to terminate pregnancies, some of which might be viable earlier than the average date.

    It comes down to just how much value one places on a woman's right to make decisions about her own body, something of which a fetus is necessarily a part.

     

     

    Regardless of that, I think it's plain as day that if the thing is already there on the table - quite obviously alive - it would be murder to kill it.

     



    Agreed on the last part, except you use of the word "thing".  It is undeniable that it is a life, a baby, someones's child, a citizen, due the full protection of the law.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: So, life begins at birth, right?

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    It's on PP to adopt or deny that she accurately represented their position.


    Well, no.  What she said is the position, until PP changes it.  She is their spokesmodel, so what she says, goes.

     




    Well, they either adopt explicitly or silently. Or, they make clear it isn't their position. If they make clear it isn't their position, I will trust them that it isn't their position - because this kind of thing happens all the time.

     

    I also give them the benefit of the doubt for at least a few days.....      

     

    That's what I'm saying.



    I understand your point.  I'm not willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.  enough time has passed for this to be denounced or clarified.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: So, life begins at birth, right?

    In response to chiefhowie's comment:

    no life begins when a mental response from the infant (fetus) happens. > I.E. Infant kicks   



    "Begin" indicates earleist point.  the earliest point in the chain of events leading to birthing a baby is conception.

    Your point is good, however.  At that point, there is no denying independent action.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: So, life begins at birth, right?

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    I also give them the benefit of the doubt for at least a few days.....      



    lol of course you do

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: So, life begins at birth, right?

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment: 

    I also give them the benefit of the doubt for at least a few days.....     

    lol of course you do

    [QUOTE]

    lol of course you don't.

    /roll eyes




    So if, PP accepts her position by not correcting it, then what?

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: So, life begins at birth, right?

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    I also give them the benefit of the doubt for at least a few days.....      

     



    lol of course you do

     



    Funny how he'll give them latitude but if this were a Republican Sentator, Congressman, etc. it would be a different story.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: So, life begins at birth, right?

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:


    Funny how he'll give them latitude but if this were a Republican Sentator, Congressman, etc. it would be a different story.




    Or BIG OIL or the NRA!!

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: So, life begins at birth, right?

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    So if, PP accepts her position by not correcting it, then what?



    Then until they correct it they support a position in favor of a practice I have described as:

    I think it's plain as day that if the thing is already there on the table - quite obviously alive - it would be murder to kill it.



    So if, that is their position would you support ending giving them taxpayer money?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: So, life begins at birth, right?

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:


    So if, that is their position would you support ending giving them taxpayer money?

     [QUOTE]

    Yes.




    Thank you and I apppreciate your integrity in this case.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: So, life begins at birth, right?

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In other words: All it comes down to is I seem to give PP more time to deal with her statements than Pinkie, Greg, and Skeeter would.

     

    There is absolutely zero binding relation between what lobbyists "typically" do, and what this particular lobbyst in fact did.



    How much time does Planned Parenthood need?  Didn't this happen last week?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: So, life begins at birth, right?

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    Funny how he'll give them latitude but if this were a Republican Sentator, Congressman, etc. it would be a different story.



    Says the guy who only calls out a few conservatives about gay marriage and health insurance? Whose sole mission in life appears to be to lie about what liberals say on BDC and then call them hypocrites?

     

    Thanks....



    You forgot abortion.

    and what do you call liberals on? Crickets...crickets....crickets...

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ImYourDaddy. Show ImYourDaddy's posts

    Re: So, life begins at birth, right?

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In other words: All it comes down to is I seem to give PP more time to deal with her statements than Pinkie, Greg, and Skeeter would.

     

    There is absolutely zero binding relation between what lobbyists "typically" do, and what this particular lobbyst in fact did.

     



    How much time does Planned Parenthood need?  Didn't this happen last week?

     



    She did what she what planned Parenthood wanted her to do. To leave the choice to the women and the doctor. The crying baby has no say

     

    http://www.ppaction.org/site/PageServer?pagename=fl_fappa_website_Legislative

     

    SB 1636 by Sen. Flores/HB 1129 by Rep. Pigman and Rep. Ray Rodrigues “Infants Born Alive”

    (CO-INTRODUCER) Baxley; Combee; Cummings; Fresen; Mayfield; Porter; Renuart; Spano; Van Zant 

    This legislation is politically motivated and inflammatory language.  It inserts politics where it doesn’t belong by implying doctors and women who end a pregnancy can’t be trusted. Legislation should not be created with the intent of coercing, shaming, or judging a woman or doctor. It is important that abortion remain a safe and legal medical procedure for a woman to consider with her doctor, if and when she needs it.

    Senate Last Action: Referred to Health Policy; Judiciary; Appropriations - Effective Date: 7/1/13

    House Last Action: 3/19/13 Passed Health Quality with Committee Substitute (YEAS 10 NAYS 2 MISSED 1)

    3/27/13 Passed Civil Justice Subcommittee with Committee Substitute (YEAS 10 NAYS 2 MISSED 1)

    Referred to Health Quality Subcommittee; Civil Justice Subcommittee; Health and Human Services Committee - Effective Date: 7/1/13

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: So, life begins at birth, right?

    I think we talked about this in an earlier thread..but here goes :-)

    If a baby is born alive as a result of an abortion that has gone wrong then no one has the right to end it's life. If planned parenthood is advocating murder then they are on the wrong side of this issue...but I think even that assumption is stretching it. As I stated before no doctor in their right mind end the life of a living, breathing human being...but lets face it. What we are talking about is practically an impossibility. Roe V. Wade allows abortion up to the age of viability. After that...women most likely aren't opting for abortions after that unless there is a health issue. In those cases government should not make a bad situation worse.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: So, life begins at birth, right?

    In response to miscricket's comment:

    I think we talked about this in an earlier thread..but here goes :-)

    If a baby is born alive as a result of an abortion that has gone wrong then no one has the right to end it's life. If planned parenthood is advocating murder then they are on the wrong side of this issue...but I think even that assumption is stretching it. As I stated before no doctor in their right mind end the life of a living, breathing human being...but lets face it. What we are talking about is practically an impossibility. Roe V. Wade allows abortion up to the age of viability. After that...women most likely aren't opting for abortions after that unless there is a health issue. In those cases government should not make a bad situation worse.

     



    A bad situation worse?

    Woukd it be "worse" to try and save the life of say a child with Down syndrome?

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: So, life begins at birth, right?

    In response to ImYourDaddy's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In other words: All it comes down to is I seem to give PP more time to deal with her statements than Pinkie, Greg, and Skeeter would.

     

    There is absolutely zero binding relation between what lobbyists "typically" do, and what this particular lobbyst in fact did.

     



    How much time does Planned Parenthood need?  Didn't this happen last week?

     

     



     

    She did what she what planned Parenthood wanted her to do. To leave the choice to the women and the doctor. The crying baby has no say

     

    http://www.ppaction.org/site/PageServer?pagename=fl_fappa_website_Legislative

     

    SB 1636 by Sen. Flores/HB 1129 by Rep. Pigman and Rep. Ray Rodrigues “Infants Born Alive”

    (CO-INTRODUCER) Baxley; Combee; Cummings; Fresen; Mayfield; Porter; Renuart; Spano; Van Zant 

    This legislation is politically motivated and inflammatory language.  It inserts politics where it doesn’t belong by implying doctors and women who end a pregnancy can’t be trusted. Legislation should not be created with the intent of coercing, shaming, or judging a woman or doctor. It is important that abortion remain a safe and legal medical procedure for a woman to consider with her doctor, if and when she needs it.

    Senate Last Action: Referred to Health Policy; Judiciary; Appropriations - Effective Date: 7/1/13

    House Last Action: 3/19/13 Passed Health Quality with Committee Substitute (YEAS 10 NAYS 2 MISSED 1)

    3/27/13 Passed Civil Justice Subcommittee with Committee Substitute (YEAS 10 NAYS 2 MISSED 1)

    Referred to Health Quality Subcommittee; Civil Justice Subcommittee; Health and Human Services Committee - Effective Date: 7/1/13




    So, WDYWN is wrong in asserting that the lobbyist was off the reservation.

    So, I guess I'll stop waiting for Planned Parenthood to clarify her remarks further.  She did what PP wanted.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: So, life begins at birth, right?

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

    In response to miscricket's comment: 

    After that...women most likely aren't opting for abortions after that unless there is a health issue. In those cases government should not make a bad situation worse.

     


    A bad situation worse? Woukd it be "worse" to try and save the life of say a child with Down syndrome?

     




     

    I think what miscricket was getting at is pregnancies that threaten to kill the mother.




    Yes...that was what I was getting that.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: So, life begins at birth, right?

    In response to miscricket's comment:

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

    In response to miscricket's comment: 

    After that...women most likely aren't opting for abortions after that unless there is a health issue. In those cases government should not make a bad situation worse.

     


    A bad situation worse? Woukd it be "worse" to try and save the life of say a child with Down syndrome?

     




     

    I think what miscricket was getting at is pregnancies that threaten to kill the mother.

     




    Yes...that was what I was getting that.

     



    But, if the late term baby is birthed alive, even thought it was a later term aborition for the health of the mother, once the baby is birthed, it not longer represents a threat to the mother, right?

    So, at that point, the baby is a patient, in need of care, right?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: So, life begins at birth, right?

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to miscricket's comment:

     

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

    In response to miscricket's comment: 

    After that...women most likely aren't opting for abortions after that unless there is a health issue. In those cases government should not make a bad situation worse.

     


    A bad situation worse? Woukd it be "worse" to try and save the life of say a child with Down syndrome?

     




     

    I think what miscricket was getting at is pregnancies that threaten to kill the mother.

     




    Yes...that was what I was getting that.

     

     



    But, if the late term baby is birthed alive, even thought it was a later term aborition for the health of the mother, once the baby is birthed, it not longer represents a threat to the mother, right?

     

    So, at that point, the baby is a patient, in need of care, right?




    Well..setting aside the difference between going through childbirth and an abortion procedure...yes. But..we have laws on the books already to address murder..which is what this would be. Why do we have to create new ones?

    I will go back to my previous statement and say that this is why late term abortions are banned and rightfully so. This proposed legislation essentially addresses a problem that simply does not exist..so why spend time for it..other than to create more political theatre?

     

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: So, life begins at birth, right?

    In response to miscricket's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to miscricket's comment:

     

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

    In response to miscricket's comment: 

    After that...women most likely aren't opting for abortions after that unless there is a health issue. In those cases government should not make a bad situation worse.

     


    A bad situation worse? Woukd it be "worse" to try and save the life of say a child with Down syndrome?

     




     

    I think what miscricket was getting at is pregnancies that threaten to kill the mother.

     




    Yes...that was what I was getting that.

     

     



    But, if the late term baby is birthed alive, even thought it was a later term aborition for the health of the mother, once the baby is birthed, it not longer represents a threat to the mother, right?

     

    So, at that point, the baby is a patient, in need of care, right?

     




    Well..setting aside the difference between going through childbirth and an abortion procedure...yes. But..we have laws on the books already to address murder..which is what this would be. Why do we have to create new ones?

     

    I will go back to my previous statement and say that this is why late term abortions are banned and rightfully so. This proposed legislation essentially addresses a problem that simply does not exist..so why spend time for it..other than to create more political theatre?

     




    The reason for the law, I guess, is that the legality is unclear in abortionists minds.  Seems that there are a significant number of situations that require this clarity.  Babies are being left to die after botched abortions, and no one is doing anything about it.  Nothing wrong wiht clarification.

     

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: So, life begins at birth, right?

    In response to GreginMeffa's comment:

    Anyone find PP even trying to distance themselves from advocating murder?



    Nope...and it's been a few days now...a few days is the grace period granted by WDYWN.

     

     

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