So much for "Affordable"

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: So much for

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to Newtster's comment:

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    At least $50 billion dollars annually is spent providing critical AND primary care for uninsured people...

    ...a big portion of whom make over $50,000 per year and thus should be able to afford coverage.

    It's past time for the uninsured to ante up as best they can.  Personal responsibility.

     

     

     




     

    Why is it that personal responsibility matters here but it doesn't with people that are also costing the rest of us money?

    What about single parents having a bunch of kids on public assistance? What about their responsibility?

    What about parents who waste their money on useless shiite and then come to the taxpayer for a handout for insurance so they can still buy their usless shiite?

    What about banks who come to us for a $trillion bail out instead of being allowed to go out of business, what abou thtier responisibility? WHy haven't those fraudsters been prosecuted by your beloved President??

    To listen to a liberal talk about being responsible is like talking to a priest about marriage. 

     



    The one point about responsibility does not preclude the others.  Everyone needs a hand at least once in their lives.  Character means paying it back, but asking for it is not a LACK of character.

     

    Your examples seem a bit arbitrary, at best.

    Every situation is different, but you should know that.  Good government means that it is supposed to be the line of last resort, the one institution that stands while everything else falls.

    The health care and health insurance industries have failed to meet even the basic medical needs of a huge number of americans.  Someone has to step in and stick up for them.

     

     

     




    Of course everyone needs a helping hand, probably several times over their lives.  I have.

     

    But, government, particularly federal government is not the place to look for this help.  It is NOT a legitimate function of our federal government, period.

    Sad to say, but we have sailed right past this point repeatedly, and the situation for the peeps just keeps getting worse.

    By breaking it's constitutionally mandated authority to do things like Obamacare, government creates dependence, dependence creates a sense of entitlement, entitlement is at the behest of your "owner".  In this case, federal government.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: So much for

    Fathom a country where every citizen must prove they are insured but, not everyone must prove they are a citizen.

    And now, any of those who refuse, or are unable to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens!

                                                                                                   Ben Stein

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: So much for

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    Fathom a country where every citizen must prove they are insured but, not everyone must prove they are a citizen.

    And now, any of those who refuse, or are unable to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens!

                                                                                                   Ben Stein



    I think I'm not a citizen.  Therefore, I am not a citizen.

    Where do I go to get me some free Obamacare?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: So much for

    In response to Newtster's comment:

    Toothaches are the #3 reason for emergency room visits. DOES THAT TELL YOU SOMETHING????



    It says that dental care is woefully under-represented along medical conditions.  All the more reason for universal coverage.

    Notice there's very little incentive in dental insurance and most plans are a joke.

    The reason - as any dentist will tell you - is that there's no money in dental insurance.  Which means there's no incentive to provide reasonable care for those who can't afford it.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: So much for

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     


    Of course everyone needs a helping hand, probably several times over their lives.  I have.

     But, government, particularly federal government is not the place to look for this help.  It is NOT a legitimate function of our federal government, period.

    Sad to say, but we have sailed right past this point repeatedly, and the situation for the peeps just keeps getting worse.


    I disagree fundamentally.  Government - particularly a democratic, representative one - is designed to be the safety net, the backstop for people who need a little help.

    In reality, that's what it is.  All programs are designed to be temporary, and the majority should be.  The problem becomes when temporary becomes permanent and people truly become the wards of the state.

    On that last point, I agree.  The questions then become how long, how much, and for whom.  These are the relevant areas of contention, not necessarily whether the govt should be doing it in the first place.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: So much for

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to Newtster's comment:

     

    Toothaches are the #3 reason for emergency room visits. DOES THAT TELL YOU SOMETHING????

     



    It says that dental care is woefully under-represented along medical conditions.  All the more reason for universal coverage.

     

    Notice there's very little incentive in dental insurance and most plans are a joke.

    The reason - as any dentist will tell you - is that there's no money in dental insurance.  Which means there's no incentive to provide reasonable care for those who can't afford it.

     



    Whether it's "under-represented" or not...no one should be going to ER for a fri99in toothache. What the hell is the ER going to do other than tell you to go see a fcuking dentist...DUH.

    Oh yes...seems like you might have a cavity. Well..um...we don't do fillings here. Um...dentists do that. Yeaaaaaah....ok...have a good night...

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: So much for

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:



    Whether it's "under-represented" or not...no one should be going to ER for a fri99in toothache. What the hell is the ER going to do other than tell you to go see a fcuking dentist...DUH.

     

     

     




     

    Prescribe vicatin and a antibiotic!

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: So much for

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:



    Whether it's "under-represented" or not...no one should be going to ER for a fri99in toothache. What the hell is the ER going to do other than tell you to go see a fcuking dentist...DUH.

     

     

     




     

    Perscribe vicatin and a antibiotic!



    They sell over the counter medicine for a toothache. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: So much for

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to Newtster's comment:

     

    Toothaches are the #3 reason for emergency room visits. DOES THAT TELL YOU SOMETHING????

     



    It says that dental care is woefully under-represented along medical conditions.  All the more reason for universal coverage.

     

    Notice there's very little incentive in dental insurance and most plans are a joke.

    The reason - as any dentist will tell you - is that there's no money in dental insurance.  Which means there's no incentive to provide reasonable care for those who can't afford it.

     

     



    Whether it's "under-represented" or not...no one should be going to ER for a fri99in toothache. What the hell is the ER going to do other than tell you to go see a fcuking dentist...DUH.

     

    Oh yes...seems like you might have a cavity. Well..um...we don't do fillings here. Um...dentists do that. Yeaaaaaah....ok...have a good night...

     



    Why are you swearing?  I'm not swearing.

    A simple cavity doesn't cause a toothache.  Severe decay or an abscess do and are nevertheless health conditions.  There are no emergency dental care facilities that I know of.  Maybe there should be.

    Retail dentistry does not seem to have stopped the problem, either.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: So much for

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    Perscribe vicatin and a antibiotic!



    That only cures the symptoms, not the condition.

     

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: So much for

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to Newtster's comment:

     

    Toothaches are the #3 reason for emergency room visits. DOES THAT TELL YOU SOMETHING????

     



    It says that dental care is woefully under-represented along medical conditions.  All the more reason for universal coverage.

     

    Notice there's very little incentive in dental insurance and most plans are a joke.

    The reason - as any dentist will tell you - is that there's no money in dental insurance.  Which means there's no incentive to provide reasonable care for those who can't afford it.

     

     



    Whether it's "under-represented" or not...no one should be going to ER for a fri99in toothache. What the hell is the ER going to do other than tell you to go see a fcuking dentist...DUH.

     

    Oh yes...seems like you might have a cavity. Well..um...we don't do fillings here. Um...dentists do that. Yeaaaaaah....ok...have a good night...

     

     



    Why are you swearing?  I'm not swearing.

     

    A simple cavity doesn't cause a toothache.  Severe decay or an abscess do and are nevertheless health conditions.  There are no emergency dental care facilities that I know of.  Maybe there should be.

    Retail dentistry does not seem to have stopped the problem, either.

     



    A) What does you not swearing have to do with me swearing?

    B) Not swearing at you. 

    Tooth decay doesn't just happen overnight. At least not to the point of severe pain. One doesn't need the ER for that. 

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: So much for

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    The fact of the matter that there are two overall bottom-line solutions.

     

    1. Single payer medicine like the rest of the developped world; or

    2. Do away with the provision of ERISA that requires hospitals to see & stabilize patients and repeal Obamacare.

     

    I tend to think the consequences of #2 are worse. You get hurt without ID, you die unless the hospital has a policy of stabalizing you anyway and eating the cost. We go back to 2008: Insurance premiums continue to skyrocket, meanwhile fewer and fewer are insured. More and more bankrupt from care.

     

     

     

     



    We'll never get rid of requirement for docs and hospitals to treat injured/sick people. Nor should we. 

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: So much for

    Guess the globe didn't like my post about health insurers. Sorry if I know more than you A's.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: So much for

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    Tooth decay doesn't just happen overnight. At least not to the point of severe pain. One doesn't need the ER for that. 

     


    I agree.

    And which is why I advocate for near-universal coverage for Primary Care at the very least and stop using the least efficient methods of treating the most common ailments.

    The ER is simply the only place to go in some of these situations.  That needs to change.

    I'm starting to believe that the retail storefront clinics are going to be the best answer.  They're not huge moneymakers, but they're convenient, and they can be mainly staffed by nurses and assistants for most treatments, triage, or for establishing medical histories.

    The key is making sure that these places will accept all insurance plans, including public.  CVS and Walgreens are already going forward with this business model...with the hopes that people stick around to buy other stuff.

    Because, if there's one business that seems to thrive almost anywhere, it's super-pharmacies.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from FaolanofEssex. Show FaolanofEssex's posts

    Re: So much for

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to Newtster's comment:

    Toothaches are the #3 reason for emergency room visits. DOES THAT TELL YOU SOMETHING?



    It tells me a number of things:

     

     

    1. Many people don't take care of themselves;

    2. Those falling under #1 likely do not carry dental insurance.

    3. Many of #2 don't have the money (or if you must, spent it elsewhere), so they can't just go pay a dentist out of pocket. But they know the hospital has to see them.

    4. They may also be stupid, and hence don't realize that the hospital doesn't have dental facilities and will just send them away unless it's so bad they're about to go septic.

     

     

     

     

     



    Is that true? I'd never have said toothaches ranked as a visit to the ER!!!

    You'd be surprised how many people I know with dental insurance who never go to the dentist. Crazy man, just crazy

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: So much for

    In response to FaolanofEssex's comment:

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to Newtster's comment:

    Toothaches are the #3 reason for emergency room visits. DOES THAT TELL YOU SOMETHING?



    It tells me a number of things:

     

     

    1. Many people don't take care of themselves;

    2. Those falling under #1 likely do not carry dental insurance.

    3. Many of #2 don't have the money (or if you must, spent it elsewhere), so they can't just go pay a dentist out of pocket. But they know the hospital has to see them.

    4. They may also be stupid, and hence don't realize that the hospital doesn't have dental facilities and will just send them away unless it's so bad they're about to go septic.

     

     

     

     

     

     



    Is that true? I'd never have said toothaches ranked as a visit to the ER!!!

     

    You'd be surprised how many people I know with dental insurance who never go to the dentist. Crazy man, just crazy



    Exactly. Same thing with health insurance. Why I keep saying all the coverage in the world is no good if one doesn't utilize said coverage.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: So much for


     

    Fathom a country where every citizen must prove they are insured but, not everyone must prove they are a citizen.

    And now, any of those who refuse, or are unable to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens!

    Ben Stein



     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: So much for

    Fathom a country where every citizen must prove they are insured but, not everyone must prove they are a citizen.

    And now, any of those who refuse, or are unable to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens!

    Ben Stein

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: So much for

    Fathom a country where every citizen must prove they are insured but, not everyone must prove they are a citizen.

    And now, any of those who refuse, or are unable to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens!

    Ben Stein

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: So much for

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     


    Exactly. Same thing with health insurance. Why I keep saying all the coverage in the world is no good if one doesn't utilize said coverage.


    That's true, but generally speaking if someone is paying for something, they will be more likely to utilize it.  

    Another reason why individual mandates are a good idea.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: So much for

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     


    Exactly. Same thing with health insurance. Why I keep saying all the coverage in the world is no good if one doesn't utilize said coverage.

     

     


    That's true, but generally speaking if someone is paying for something, they will be more likely to utilize it.  

    Another reason why individual mandates are a good idea.

     



    if that we're true then why did majority of men from my dads generation not go to doctors? Why do most of my guy friends not go to doctors on any kind of regular basis?

    Not to mention that most people who DO go clearly don't take doctors advice. think of it this way....how many millions smoke? Of those millions how many have been told to quit smoking yet don't. How many overweight and obese people have been told they need to change their diet and exercise yet don't. 

    So even if more DO go...it doesn't mean they'll heed their doctors advice.

     

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: So much for

    I don't know...I can only speak from personal experience..but the cost for my health insurance, copays and the one prescription medication I take have gone down significantly. My health insurance even provides 20 percent discount on healthcare related items if I buy them at CVS. Also..I just got my rebate for my gym membership.

    I think any rise in cost is going to be short term. Once insurers get on board with the preventative coverage then long term, there will be less need for secondary and tertiary interventions ( both cost much more).

     

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