The Democrats Got what They Really Wanted

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from newman09. Show newman09's posts

    The Democrats Got what They Really Wanted

    Why were the democrats so eager to change the healthcare system to such an extreme? Ted Kennedy twenty plus years ago was always talking about insuring the uninsured "health care for everyone".

    But, why did they go down the road of a complete overhaul to the entire system, as opposed to just finding a way to insure those who needed or wanted it?

    The 2008 election was huge for the democrats; they had control of both the house and the senate at that time. The election of a democratic president would finally be their chance to pass new laws as they saw or wanted, strait to the president’s desk. Bigger government as they believe was now in their hands, and the health care system is an enormous part of this economy.

    Why the complete overhaul and not just a fix to the current system? Control, they want government to control a bigger slice of the economy. IMO insurance for all was just the icing on the cake, control over the people and that segment of the economy is the real prize here for the democratic party. Imagine how things would look today had they had six, eight years of total control? I’m sure Obama, Nancy and Harry have daydreamed about that scenario many times.     

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName9. Show UserName9's posts

    Re: The Democrats Got what They Really Wanted

    In response to newman09's comment:

    But, why did they go down the road of a complete overhaul to the entire system, as opposed to just finding a way to insure those who needed or wanted it?




    Democrats started with the idea of a complete overhaul via single payer, but ended up with a system that finds a way to insure those who need it (everyone who isn't in it).

    To say Obamacare is a "complete overhaul to the entire system" is pure delusion.  We still have insurance companies, and we still have employer-employee plans.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: The Democrats Got what They Really Wanted

    In response to UserName9's comment:

    In response to newman09's comment:

     

    But, why did they go down the road of a complete overhaul to the entire system, as opposed to just finding a way to insure those who needed or wanted it?

     




    Democrats started with the idea of a complete overhaul via single payer, but ended up with a system that finds a way to insure those who need it (everyone who isn't in it).

     

    To say Obamacare is a "complete overhaul to the entire system" is pure delusion.  We still have insurance companies, and we still have employer-employee plans.



    Democrats built a impossibly convoluted system which they know will fail.

    Then the inevitable 'crisis" will occur upon failure of ObamaCare , which (surprise!) they will blame on the private sector and Republicans, and will give them their opportunity to go 'dead Red"  and impose a socialist single payer on us.
    Then we will be Europe, which is what these zealot lefties want.

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: The Democrats Got what They Really Wanted

    In response to newman09's comment:

    Why the complete overhaul and not just a fix to the current system?



    It was 2008. Insurance premiums were rising 9-10% every year. Millions of Americans lost insurance or got worse insurance every year.

    McCains solution was a piddling $5,000 tax credit that would mean nothing in 2 years.

     

     

     

    What was your solution? What specific things that are not already in Obamacare would have fixed the system?

     

     

    Don't worry. I know you don't know. People who criticize Obamacare usually end up proposing things that are, in fact, in Obamacare.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from newman09. Show newman09's posts

    Re: The Democrats Got what They Really Wanted

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:

     

    In response to newman09's comment:

     

    Why the complete overhaul and not just a fix to the current system?

     



    It was 2008. Insurance premiums were rising 9-10% every year. Millions of Americans lost insurance or got worse insurance every year.

     

    McCains solution was a piddling $5,000 tax credit that would mean nothing in 2 years.

     

     

     

    What was your solution? What specific things that are not already in Obamacare would have fixed the system?

     

     

    Don't worry. I know you don't know. People who criticize Obamacare usually end up proposing things that are, in fact, in Obamacare.

     

     




    Again, missing the main point here. It's not about what's in Obamacare that I'm even talking about. It's the way they did it, with this huge Government grab of the economy and handing it over to the IRS to oversee.

     

    And please never assume that you know what I do or don't know, because you don't know me from Jack.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: The Democrats Got what They Really Wanted

    In response to newman09's comment:


    Again, missing the main point here. It's not about what's in Obamacare that I'm even talking about

     

    Yeah it's only 90% of your OP:

     

    - Why were the democrats so eager to change the healthcare system to such an extreme? 

    - Ted Kennedy twenty plus years ago was always talking about insuring the uninsured "health care for everyone".

     

    - But, why did they go down the road of a complete overhaul to the entire system, as opposed to just finding a way to insure those who needed or wanted it?

     

    -the health care system is an enormous part of this economy.

     

    -Why the complete overhaul and not just a fix to the current system?

    -Control, they want government to control a bigger slice of the economy.

    -IMO insurance for all was just the icing on the cake, control over the people and that segment of the economy is the real prize here for the democratic party. Imagine how things would look today had they had six, eight years of total control? I’m sure Obama, Nancy and Harry have daydreamed about that scenario many times.    

     

     

     

    In response to newman09's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    And please never assume that you know what I know, because you don't know me from Jack.

    [/QUOTE]

     

    Stuff it.

     

    I am so sick of listening to you and the other BDC conservatives attacking all dems, Obama, and all posters accused of being libruls based on what you think you know about them.

    Seriously. Stuff it and shove off. You are ten times more guilty than I of what you here complain of.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: The Democrats Got what They Really Wanted

    The inequality from state to state and plan to plan was too great. 

    It led to significant confusion on the part of insureds and huge bureaucratic headaches for doctors and hospitals.

    With so much confusion, it's no surprise that costs were spiraling out of control without a true lever to stop it.

    And with Medicare taking on the growing hordes of baby boomers, the cost spike would have been too much to bear.

    Truth is, this type of reform should have happened 20 years ago or more, but at the time, it was all we could do just to get unpaid time off from work via the Family Medical Leave Act - still important, but a stopgap at best.

    Add to this the proclivity to use ridiculously expensive prescription drugs as primary care vehicles and the unwillingness of some to allow medicare to negotiate drug prices from abroad, and here we are.

     

    Personally, I never thought single-payer could work here, and I still don't.  The goal was always universal coverage.  The very least we can do is make sure everyone is covered by some type of plan to avoid such gross inequities and such rampant unfairness on the part of insurance companies (who were really just protecting their bottom lines).

    These are our basic missions: educate our children, feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, and heal the sick.  If we can't do these simple things to the best of our ability, then we have failed.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from newman09. Show newman09's posts

    Re: The Democrats Got what They Really Wanted

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:

    In response to newman09's comment:


    Again, missing the main point here. It's not about what's in Obamacare that I'm even talking about

     

     

     

     

    Yeah it's only 90% of your OP:

     

    - Why were the democrats so eager to change the healthcare system to such an extreme? 

    - Ted Kennedy twenty plus years ago was always talking about insuring the uninsured "health care for everyone".

     

    - But, why did they go down the road of a complete overhaul to the entire system, as opposed to just finding a way to insure those who needed or wanted it?

     

    -the health care system is an enormous part of this economy.

     

    -Why the complete overhaul and not just a fix to the current system?

    -Control, they want government to control a bigger slice of the economy.

    -IMO insurance for all was just the icing on the cake, control over the people and that segment of the economy is the real prize here for the democratic party. Imagine how things would look today had they had six, eight years of total control? I’m sure Obama, Nancy and Harry have daydreamed about that scenario many times.    

     

     

     

    In response to newman09's comment:

     

    And please never assume that you know what I know, because you don't know me from Jack.

     

     

     

    Stuff it.

     

    I am so sick of listening to you and the other BDC conservatives attacking all dems, Obama, and all posters accused of being libruls based on what you think you know about them.

    Seriously. Stuff it and shove off. You are ten times more guilty than I of what you here complain of.




    I swear you read into things how you want. Hey, I am very civil around here, please find me a post where I'm not. For one who posts a hundred more times a day than I, it would be impossible for me to be "ten times more guilty". And if you're sick of listening to the conservatives here, don't log on. It's a political thread, did you think only your liberal buddies were going to be posting.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: The Democrats Got what They Really Wanted

    In response to newman09's comment:

     

    Again, missing the main point here. It's not about what's in Obamacare that I'm even talking about. It's the way they did it, with this huge Government grab of the economy and handing it over to the IRS to oversee.

    There is no "grab", because there is no public option. 

    All of the exchange plans will be administered by private insurance companies and serviced by private doctors.

    All the IRS oversees are the tax requirements, like with your mortgage interest or capital gains.  Doesn't amount to a "grab", and never did.

    Stop making things up.

     

     
  11. This post has been removed.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: The Democrats Got what They Really Wanted

    In response to newman09's comment:

    I am very civil around here


    You put words in Democrats' mouths, accuse them of vile conspiracies, overgeneralize about them, and so on.

    The fact that you do not necessarily call them a particular name or use a particular vulgar term does not mean it's "civil" to say what you say about them.

     

    In this thread alone you allege that Democrats were not trying to fix our health care system. You allege:

    Why the complete overhaul and not just a fix to the current system? Control, they want government to control a bigger slice of the economy. IMO insurance for all was just the icing on the cake, control over the people

     

     

    Guess what: That is extremely uncivil despite the fact that you didn't say the word "#$*!"

    It is slander.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: The Democrats Got what They Really Wanted

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:

     

    I am so sick of listening to you and the other BDC conservatives attacking all dems, Obama, and all posters accused of being libruls based on what you think you know about them.

    Seriously. Stuff it and shove off. You are ten times more guilty than I of what you here complain of.



    Yea because you dont just blame republicans.....geez what a tool.

    If you are so sick of it Go the freak away! you will not be missed!

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: The Democrats Got what They Really Wanted

    In response to newman09's comment:

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to newman09's comment:


    Again, missing the main point here. It's not about what's in Obamacare that I'm even talking about

     

     

     

     

    Yeah it's only 90% of your OP:

     

    - Why were the democrats so eager to change the healthcare system to such an extreme? 

    - Ted Kennedy twenty plus years ago was always talking about insuring the uninsured "health care for everyone".

     

    - But, why did they go down the road of a complete overhaul to the entire system, as opposed to just finding a way to insure those who needed or wanted it?

     

    -the health care system is an enormous part of this economy.

     

    -Why the complete overhaul and not just a fix to the current system?

    -Control, they want government to control a bigger slice of the economy.

    -IMO insurance for all was just the icing on the cake, control over the people and that segment of the economy is the real prize here for the democratic party. Imagine how things would look today had they had six, eight years of total control? I’m sure Obama, Nancy and Harry have daydreamed about that scenario many times.    

     

     

     

    In response to newman09's comment:

     

    And please never assume that you know what I know, because you don't know me from Jack.

     

     

     

    Stuff it.

     

    I am so sick of listening to you and the other BDC conservatives attacking all dems, Obama, and all posters accused of being libruls based on what you think you know about them.

    Seriously. Stuff it and shove off. You are ten times more guilty than I of what you here complain of.

     




    I swear you read into things how you want. Hey, I am very civil around here, please find me a post where I'm not. For one who posts a hundred more times a day than I, it would be impossible for me to be "ten times more guilty". And if you're sick of listening to the conservatives here, don't log on. It's a political thread, did you think only your liberal buddies were going to be posting.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Bingo!

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: The Democrats Got what They Really Wanted

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to newman09's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Again, missing the main point here. It's not about what's in Obamacare that I'm even talking about. It's the way they did it, with this huge Government grab of the economy and handing it over to the IRS to oversee.

     

     

    There is no "grab", because there is no public option. 

    All of the exchange plans will be administered by private insurance companies and serviced by private doctors.

    not 100% accurate. Exchanges will be administered by a governmental agency or non-profit organization

    All the IRS oversees are the tax requirements, like with your mortgage interest or capital gains.  Doesn't amount to a "grab", and never did.

    Stop making things up.

     

    [/QUOTE]


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: The Democrats Got what They Really Wanted

    Everyone who ever voted Republican hates inner city minorities, hates the poor, hates women, and wants to crush everyone but the rich.

     

     

    My this 'civility' feels good.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: The Democrats Got what They Really Wanted

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    Bingo!


    lol...always snickering behind somenoe else's shoulders at me, eh? Brave guy...  

     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: The Democrats Got what They Really Wanted

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    you will not be missed!


    Yes, I wouldn't be surprised if you could amuse yourself snickering with CLC about how libruls are poopooheads....    

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: The Democrats Got what They Really Wanted

    "Everyone who ever voted Republican hates inner city minorities, hates the poor, hates women, and wants to crush everyone but the rich."

     

     

    Whomever wrote this missed....kids, environment, vets, disabled, and animals. If you're gonna post you can at least get it right...Tongue Out 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: The Democrats Got what They Really Wanted

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    not 100% accurate. Exchanges will be administered by a governmental agency or non-profit organization


    I referred to the plans themselves, not the exchanges/marketplaces.

     

    But thanks for clarifying.

     

     

     

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