The dems framework-- Tax NOW with REDUCTIONS in increased spending and reforms LATER!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    The dems framework-- Tax NOW with REDUCTIONS in increased spending and reforms LATER!

    A DECADE OF 2 LATER!!

     

    If Republicans cave go along and with it; it's dooms day for the economy and second recession is unavoidable imho!

    Prove me wrong!!

    How will increasing money to the govt to the tune of 1 trillion solve anything?

    They are guaranteed to waste most of it as THEY ALWAYS DO!

    We will run another trillion in debt or very close next year with negligible economic growth with a good chance of economic contraction!

    Maybe republican wants to say "ok, we did what you wanted and we are worse off now" I dont know but, playing politics again with the US citizens quality of life is BS

     http://www.politico.com/story/2012/11/84364_Page4.html

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: The dems framework-- Tax NOW with REDUCTIONS in increased spending and reforms LATER!

    Well, actually, the recession would be caused by the sudden sharp reduction in the deficit.  Increasing taxes AND cuts in spending, as you want, would cause an even deeper recession.

    But let's cut the deficit with cuts and lets cut Medicare.  Let's raise the age from 65 to 67.

    That will result in an increase in Medicare premiums for seniors from 67 on up.  The people on medicare from 65-66 tend to be the healthiest people in Medicare, so taking them out means the per member cost of medicare would go up.

    The people 65-66 will have to get their health insurance by either staying in the workforce or by going to the exchanges.  the 65-66 years olds in the work force and in the exchanges will be the least healthy of the people getting private health insurance, meaning the price of health insurance will rise.

    So cutting things like Medicare doesn't result in a net savings for the population.  It simply pushes the cost for health care to you and me.

    So let's keep taxes low on the extremely wealthy so you and I and old people can pay higher health insurance premiums.

    Any other ideas?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: The dems framework-- Tax NOW with REDUCTIONS in increased spending and reforms LATER!

    In response to DirtyWaterLover's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Well, actually, the recession would be caused by the sudden sharp reduction in the deficit.  Increasing taxes AND cuts in spending, as you want, would cause an even deeper recession.

    [/QUOTE]

    BS! and there wouldnt be a "sudden sharp drop"! Our deficit is 16 trillion cutting it by a few 10's of billions a year is by no means a "sharp drop".

    The dems plan will ADD/INCREASE/EXPAND the deficit!

    Any signs of real reduction in deficit will boost confidence in our markets and the result would be consumer confidence and spending rising, investors investing more and businesses investing more!!

    To just balance it where we didnt have any increase in our debt would be an economic boost!!

    get real!

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: The dems framework-- Tax NOW with REDUCTIONS in increased spending and reforms LATER!

    In response to tvoter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    A DECADE OF 2 LATER!!

     

    If Republicans cave go along and with it; it's dooms day for the economy and second recession is unavoidable imho!

    Prove me wrong!!

    How will increasing money to the govt to the tune of 1 trillion solve anything?

    They are guaranteed to waste most of it as THEY ALWAYS DO!

    We will run another trillion in debt or very close next year with negligible economic growth with a good chance of economic contraction!

    Maybe republican wants to say "ok, we did what you wanted and we are worse off now" I dont know but, playing politics again with the US citizens quality of life is BS

     http://www.politico.com/story/2012/11/84364_Page4.html

    [/QUOTE]


    Same old Democrats.

    Tax and spend.

    4 years of deficit spending now they need other's money to pay for it.

    How dare the evil rich object to Obama's redistributive policies.

    Notice how the media focuses on "Revenues", no mention of the needed spending cuts.

    Taxes will not solve this problem the democrat party with spending on enttitlements.

    But that is how they get elected, free stuff for their voters.

    Take money from our country's productive and give it to the dead beats.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName99. Show UserName99's posts

    Re: The dems framework-- Tax NOW with REDUCTIONS in increased spending and reforms LATER!

    Cutting the deficit now is misguided.  Not quite as misguided as cutting taxes while starting 2 wars, but its up there.

    What we need to do is get people back to work through infrastructure investment and federal aid to the states. When people are back to work, stop collecting unemployment and food stamps and start paying taxes again, the deficit problem that republicans created will solve itself.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: The dems framework-- Tax NOW with REDUCTIONS in increased spending and reforms LATER!

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to tvoter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Same old Democrats.

    Tax and spend.

    4 years of deficit spending now they need other's money to pay for it.

    How dare the evil rich object to Obama's redistributive policies.

    Notice how the media focuses on "Revenues", no mention of the needed spending cuts.

    Taxes will not solve this problem the democrat party with spending on enttitlements.

    But that is how they get elected, free stuff for their voters.

    Take money from our country's productive and give it to the dead beats.

    [/QUOTE]

    They know they will be gone when it all collapses on us!

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: The dems framework-- Tax NOW with REDUCTIONS in increased spending and reforms LATER!

    In response to UserName99's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Cutting the deficit now is misguided.  Not quite as misguided as cutting taxes while starting 2 wars, but its up there.

    What we need to do is get people back to work through infrastructure investment and federal aid to the states. When people are back to work, stop collecting unemployment and food stamps and start paying taxes again, the deficit problem that republicans created will solve itself.

    [/QUOTE]


    More "shovel ready" projects?

    Like the 850 billion stimulus?

    Where is that money?

    Where are the jobs from that spending?

    That the President said would bring unemployment down to 5 percent.

    850 billion borrowed from China.

    What did it give us?

    23-24 million unemployed, record high amounts of citizens on food stamps, welfare and disability.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: The dems framework-- Tax NOW with REDUCTIONS in increased spending and reforms LATER!

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
    [QUOTE] 

    MORE THREADS!

    WE MUST HAVE MORE THREADS!

    [/QUOTE]


    You are like a loud alarm that's still malfuntioning even though it said it wouldn't go off any more.

    Please stay in the other posts and let others talk here.

    Thank you

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: The dems framework-- Tax NOW with REDUCTIONS in increased spending and reforms LATER!

    In response to UserName99's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Cutting the deficit now is misguided.  Not quite as misguided as cutting taxes while starting 2 wars, but its up there.

    What we need to do is get people back to work through infrastructure investment and federal aid to the states. When people are back to work, stop collecting unemployment and food stamps and start paying taxes again, the deficit problem that republicans created will solve itself.

    [/QUOTE]


    The govt is the worse entity to depend on for job creation.

    The avg job created by the stimulous cost us about 150,000 dollars!!

     
  11. This post has been removed.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: The dems framework-- Tax NOW with REDUCTIONS in increased spending and reforms LATER!

    Tvoter.  We do not have a $16 trillion deficit.  We have a $16 trillion debt.  We have a $1 trillion deficit. 

    There are no discussions about cutting the debt.  the discussions are for cutting the deficit.

    And yes, if a reduction in the deficit is not done at the right time, it will lead to a recession.  Adding to the deficit can stimulate the economy and cutting the deficit will contract the economy.  The only way a cut in the deficit will not result in a recession is if we already have high interest rates and those rates go down as the deficit narrows or if the economy is heating up and there is a real threat of inflation.

    You really should take freshman level macroeconomics course. 

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: The dems framework-- Tax NOW with REDUCTIONS in increased spending and reforms LATER!

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
    [QUOTE] 

    To wit, the above.

    DWL lays out what economists are saying. Do you respond directly to that? No. You simply call it "BS" and blare away on your horn again, always the same notes. That isn't communication. It's simply the act of talking at someone. Not with them.

    [/QUOTE]


    There is an economist on the fiscal conservative side for every one on the fiscal liberal side it's differing educated opinions!

    Did you notice the "imho" on my post??

    It means "in my humble opinion" dovch bag!

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: The dems framework-- Tax NOW with REDUCTIONS in increased spending and reforms LATER!

    In response to DirtyWaterLover's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Tvoter.  We do not have a $16 trillion deficit.  We have a $16 trillion debt.  We have a $1 trillion deficit. 

    There are no discussions about cutting the debt.  the discussions are for cutting the deficit.

    And yes, if a reduction in the deficit is not done at the right time, it will lead to a recession.  Adding to the deficit can stimulate the economy and cutting the deficit will contract the economy.  The only way a cut in the deficit will not result in a recession is if we already have high interest rates and those rates go down as the deficit narrows or if the economy is heating up and there is a real threat of inflation.

    You really should take freshman level macroeconomics course. 

    [/QUOTE]


    The are directly related but, thanks for trying to talk down to someone above you.

    The plan the dems have WILL NOT balance our budget! 

    If, we balance the deficit, we do not add to the debt, if we keep running deficits we keep adding debt!!

    When you or greece or spain are spending way more than you bring in lendors will say; we cant loan you more because you have no realistic way to pay us back OR we will loan you more we will just charge you much more in interest.

    Every liberal thinks because we are not as bad as other countries or because we can print our own money that these basic principles do not apply to our country!

    The idea that just because we are not as bad off as them now or so much bigger than them  so, we can still add more and more debt and borrow more and more until we miraculously find our way out of this is assinine!!

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName99. Show UserName99's posts

    Re: The dems framework-- Tax NOW with REDUCTIONS in increased spending and reforms LATER!

    In response to DirtyWaterLover's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You really should take freshman level macroeconomics course. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Probably benefit from a basic US history class too.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName99. Show UserName99's posts

    Re: The dems framework-- Tax NOW with REDUCTIONS in increased spending and reforms LATER!

    In response to NO MO O's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to UserName99's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Cutting the deficit now is misguided.  Not quite as misguided as cutting taxes while starting 2 wars, but its up there.

    What we need to do is get people back to work through infrastructure investment and federal aid to the states. When people are back to work, stop collecting unemployment and food stamps and start paying taxes again, the deficit problem that republicans created will solve itself.

    [/QUOTE]


    More shovel projects?

    Like the 850 billion stimulus?

    Where is that money?

    Where are the jobs from that spending?

    That the President said would bring unemplyment down to 5 percent.

    850 billion borrowed from China.

    What did it give us?

    23-24 million unemployed, recordhigh  amounts of citizens on food stamps, welfare and disability.

    [/QUOTE]


    You're not expecting a direct and responsible answer are you?

    [/QUOTE]

    You're right.  I tend to ignore morons.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: The dems framework-- Tax NOW with REDUCTIONS in increased spending and reforms LATER!

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    Did you notice the "imho" on my post?? It means "in my humble opinion" dovch bag!


    That's like putting "I don't mean to offend anyone" before saying something blatantly offensive, and then acting surprised when someone says "da fuq?!" 


    You're missing the point. You just keep on starting threads on the same thing. You say the same things, and you completely ignore the responses to them, simply repeating the party line.

     Pamphleteering.

    [/QUOTE]

    This is the first thread I have started on the actual reported dem plan. I have started other threads relating to the "fiscal cliff" and dems unwillingness to compromise though.

    Like I have said before; do NOT feel like anyone especially me will mind if, you do not click on my posts!!

    Thank you

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: The dems framework-- Tax NOW with REDUCTIONS in increased spending and reforms LATER!

    In response to 12-Angry-Men's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Soooo, you start all these threads based on a ridiculous premise and then throw out the bullshiit "Prove me wrong" tagline.

    [/QUOTE]


    What do you want proven skippy?

    That dems refuse to make any compromises; yet will try to blame the republicans?

    that taxing the rich will not eliminate deficits?

    what??

     

     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: The dems framework-- Tax NOW with REDUCTIONS in increased spending and reforms LATER!

    In response to 12-Angry-Men's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    What do you want proven skippy? That dems refuse to make any compromises; yet will try to blame the republicans? that taxing the rich will not eliminate deficits? what??




    How about the one with which you start off your ridiculous wingnut rant...

    If Republicans cave go along and with it; it's dooms day for the economy and second recession is unavoidable.

     

    And sure, where is the 'no compromise' pledge by the Dems that is comprable to the wingnut 'no new taxes' pledge.

    [/QUOTE]


    You parasites need to pay for all your spending the past 4 years and are having hissy fits because the republicans won't go along with it.

    50 percent of working Americans pay no income tax.

    Top 10 percent of wage earners pay 70 percent of the US income tax.

    It's high time that the party of food stamps the party of Santa Claus starts paying your own freight.

    Time for a flat tax.

    All the democrats are for tax increases because it doesn't effect them, they're the takers in this society not the producers.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: The dems framework-- Tax NOW with REDUCTIONS in increased spending and reforms LATER!

    CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER: It's not just a bad deal, this is really an insulting deal. What Geithner offered, what you showed on the screen, Robert E. Lee was offered easier terms at Appomattox, and he lost the Civil War. The Democrats won by 3% of the vote and they did not hold the House, Republicans won the house. So this is not exactly unconditional surrender, but that is what the administration is asking of the Republicans.

    This idea -- there are not only no cuts in this, there's an increase in spending with a new stimulus. I mean, this is almost unheard of. What do they expect? They obviously expect the Republicans will cave on everything. I think the Republicans ought to simply walk away. The president is the president. He's the leader. They are demanding that the Republicans explain all the cuts that they want to make.

    We had that movie a year-and-a-half ago where Paul Ryan presented a budget, a serious real budget with real cuts. Obama was supposed to gave speech where he would respond with a counter offer. And what did he do? He gave a speech where he had Ryan sitting in the front row. He called the Ryan proposal un-American, insulted him, offered nothing, and ran on Mediscare in the next 18 months.

    And they expect the Republicans are going to do this again? The Republicans are going to walk on this. And I think they have leverage. Yes, for Congressional Democrats it will help them in the future if Republicans absorb the blame because we will have a recession. But Obama is not running again unlike the Congressional Democrats. He's going to have a recession, 9% unemployment, 2 million more unemployed, and a second term that's going to be a ruin. That is not a good proposition if you are Barack Obama.

     
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