There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from beKool. Show beKool's posts

    There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.

    Are you falling for the drill baby drill political game the right is playing?


    With the country again facing $4-a-gallon gasoline, the time would seem ripe for a grown-up conversation on energy. What we are getting instead is a mindless rerun of the drill-baby-drill operatics of the 2008 campaign, when gas was also at $4 a gallon. Then, as now, opportunistic politicians insisted that vastly expanded oil drilling would bring relief at the pump and reduced dependence on foreign oil. Then, as now, these arguments were bogus.       

    As President Obama observed in a March 30 address on energy issues, drilling alone cannot possibly ensure energy independence in a country that uses one-quarter of the world’s oil while owning only 2 percent of its reserves. Nor can it lower prices, except at the margins. Only coordinated measures — greater auto efficiency, alternative fuels, improved mass transit — can address these issues.

    Still the oil industry and its political allies persist in their fantasies. On Thursday, the House passed the first of three bills that will require the Interior Department to accelerate drilling permits without proper environmental or engineering reviews, reinstate lease sales off the Virginia coast that were canceled after the BP blowout, and open up protected coastal waters — East, West and in Alaska — to drilling.

    The bills would make regulation of offshore drilling even weaker than it was before the spill. They would also do almost nothing to solve the problems of $4-a-gallon gas.

    Here’s the hard truth: Prices are set on the world market by the major producers, OPEC in particular. Even countries that produce more oil than they need, like Canada, have little leverage. Canada’s prices track ours.

    The Energy Information Agency recently projected what would happen if the nation tripled production on the outer continental shelf. There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.

    By contrast, the agency found, raising the fuel efficiency of America’s cars would do real good. Increasing the fleetwide average from roughly 30 m.p.g. today to 60 m.p.g. in the next 15 years, an ambitious but not implausible goal, could bring prices down by 20 percent.

    Some politicians get it. Senator Max Baucus, a Montana Democrat, is drafting a bill that seeks to repeal $4 billion in annual taxpayer subsidies to the oil industry and use the proceeds to develop more efficient cars and alternative fuel sources. Mr. Obama has tried twice, without success, to get rid of those subsidies, and the House voted in March to preserve them in the current budget.

    The tax breaks — fast write-offs for drilling expenses, generous depletion allowances, and the like — may have been useful years ago but are wholly unnecessary when oil prices and industry profits are reaching new highs.

    Even John Boehner, the Republican leader, conceded in a recent ABC News interview that oil companies “ought to be paying their fair share.” When horrified aides reminded him that ending the subsidies would amount to a tax increase — anathema among Republicans — he backed off.

    Repealing these breaks would reduce the deficit and yield revenues to be invested in cleaner fuels, while having no real impact on prices. Mr. Obama may not be able to persuade the House of these simple truths. But he can and must seize whatever opportunities are offered in the Senate, involving himself, not just rhetorically, in the hard but necessary struggle for a sane energy policy.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from KittyDuke. Show KittyDuke's posts

    Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.

    If you bought that one.. I'm selling the Tobin Bridge at a discount.

    You could rename it to "Be a Tool (Toll) Bridge"

    Prices are at $4.00 and rising and you tell us that everything is okay.

    "Ignore that man behind the curtain"

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobinVa. Show BobinVa's posts

    Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.

    Here’s the hard truth!
    it does take time to drill and get the oil out of the ground, but if the moonbat green leftist radicals hadnt stopped drilling in Alaska in 2001,  prices would be much lower and we would be in much better position.

    "drilling alone cannot possibly ensure energy independence in a country that uses one-quarter of the world’s oil while owning only 2 percent of its reserves"
    Where is politifact when we need them? Pants on fire!
    The 2% is America’s proven reserves where we are already drilling. It does not include the 10 billion barrels available in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. It does not include most of the 86 billion barrels available offshore in the Outer Continental Shelf, most of which President Obama has placed under an executive drilling ban. And it does not include the 800 billion barrels of oil we have locked in shale in Wyoming, Utah, and Colorado. Those shale resources alone are actually three times larger than the proven reserves of Saudi Arabia, so the claim that the U.S. only has 2% of the world’s oil is clearly false.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.

    Liberals are bad at math, bad at logic, and bad at economics.

    While you blame the big oil companies, you are preventing them from increasing supply, whihc lowers prices.

    You continue to beleive the government should raise pump taxes, add mileage taxes, which cause the price to go up.

    Canada, meanwhile, is breaking open the tar sands and preparing for energy independence.  CANADA! 

    I never thought I would say anything positive about the frozen northern loons, but, they got it right, Obama got it wrong.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from beKool. Show beKool's posts

    Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.

    Supply isnt the problem only morons fall for that claim. . And really from the two that posted so far they both still fall for pull my finger.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobinVa. Show BobinVa's posts

    Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.

    "to be invested in cleaner fuels...alternative fuels..."
    This government boondoggle has failed for decades, yet liberals yet agan double down on failure...

    President Carter's energy plans were EXACTLY the same -conservation and www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=21194">alternative fuels - and failed over thirty years ago.  Why should we expect anything different when President Obama tries them again now?

    Oh, right, we shouldn't.
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.

    In Response to Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.:
    [QUOTE]Supply isnt the problem only morons fall for that claim. And really from the two that posted so far they both still fall for pull my finger.
    Posted by beKool[/QUOTE]


    Supply is the issue that us morons claim...wait a minute, did you just fool me into calling myself a moron?  Doh!

    Like I said, liberals are bad at economics.  Supply is the issue.  That is the issue that drives the cost at the pump.  Demand is outstripping supply.   That is the issue.  Tell me all you want about how we produced more oil than last year, meaningless without comparing it to demand, which is growing faster than supply.

    so, yes, supply is THE issue.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.

    In Response to Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.:
    [QUOTE]Supply isnt the problem only morons fall for that claim. . And really from the two that posted so far they both still fall for pull my finger.
    Posted by beKool[/QUOTE]

    But I neglected to address the demand side apologists.  The current gang occupying the white house are big proponents of considering the supply of anything steady state or declining, and focus on changing the demand.  How?

    Higher taxes,  higher prices, less drilling, invest in more expensive alternatives, and subsidize any demand reducing policy.

    Short form for you macaroons:

    Obama's solution is to tax and spend you until you can't take it anymore,and stop driving. 

    This is the answer from this group of socialist clowns: make your life hell because it is too hard for them to do the right thing and increase supply.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.

    Oil prices are driven by speculation and the speculation is that the US is going to fall victim to foreign oil for the next 25-50 years because we don't have an energy policy if self sufficiency.

    Yes we need to drill baby drill our own oil for the next 20 plus years, to most importantly wean ourselves off of foreign oil while we develop our own replacement energy.

    • We also need nukes.
    • Clean coal
    • Natural gas which we have in abundance
    • Hydro
    • and wind 
    • couple with sound policy ti improve efficiency in everything we do so long as it doesn't cripple the US financially.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from beKool. Show beKool's posts

    Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.

    In Response to Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030. : Supply is the issue that us morons claim...wait a minute, did you just fool me into calling myself a moron?  Doh! Like I said, liberals are bad at economics.  Supply is the issue.  That is the issue that drives the cost at the pump.  Demand is outstripping supply.   That is the issue.  Tell me all you want about how we produced more oil than last year, meaningless without comparing it to demand, which is growing faster than supply. so, yes, supply is THE issue.
    Posted by skeeter20[/QUOTE]

    If supply was the issue we would have gas lines kid . Do you see any ?

    Also our refineries are at full capacity thats one more sign supply is there. And check it out kid there is oil/gas all over the gulf just sitting in holding tanks because of speculaters on Wall Street.

    You are buying into the big oil / Wall Street whine. More drilling isnt going to do anything because any put on the market only lowers what another country wont put on the market. Oil drilled for in this country doesnt have its own special price on it , it still goes by world markert prices .

    Seriously i cant believe you fools are still falling for the supply claim when its not a problem.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from beKool. Show beKool's posts

    Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.

    In Response to Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.:
    [QUOTE]Oil prices are driven by speculation and the speculation is that the US is going to fall victim to foreign oil for the next 25-50 years because we don't have an energy policy if self sufficiency. Yes we need to drill baby drill our own oil for the next 20 plus years, to most importantly wean ourselves off of foreign oil while we develop our own replacement energy. We also need nukes. Clean coal Natural gas which we have in abundance Hydro and wind  couple with sound policy ti improve efficiency in everything we do so long as it doesn't cripple the US financially.
    Posted by massmoderateJoe[/QUOTE]

    With the exception of you thinking any oil drilled in this country will stay in this country the rest is a resonable argument.

    No way will oil drilled in this country stay in this country as long as Wall Street and stock holders have a say in it. You know that as well as i or you should anyway. We need to feel more pain before you guys wake up thats clear. All you drill baby drill nuts are doing is pushing the problem down the road onto the next generation and the one after that . You all know that but your politics wont let you admit it.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.

    In Response to Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030. : With the exception of you thinking any oil drilled in this country will stay in this country the rest is a resonable argument. No way will oil drilled in this country stay in this country as long as Wall Street and stock holders have a say in it. You know that as well as i or you should anyway. We need to feel more pain before you guys wake up thats clear. All you drill baby drill nuts are doing is pushing the problem down the road onto the next generation and the one after that . You all know that but your politics wont let you admit it.
    Posted by beKool[/QUOTE]

    As demonstrated by the new over supply of oil due to $4 gas in the US, the price will fall when it reaches that magic number, unfrotunately it also damages our economy.  The US adding to the oil supply chain will ensure more supply control in the US and it will push down speculation.  Speculation on the fringe 5-10% of the market drives prices uncontrolably.  Having control of a larger share of our oil need is our countries best insurance agains the whims of the middle east.

    We still need to reduce our overall oil consumption, but it should be our US oil we consume.  I'm an energy isolationist and I don't want US dollars being spent overseas in economies where people don't like us.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from phoenix56. Show phoenix56's posts

    Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.

    I'm not that great at adding to discussions, but I remember the gas shortage in the 70's and that our wonderful Government has had 30+ years to come up with some other alternative.  Obviously they have failed, hard.  They could have done something but they chose to stay the same ole, same ole course.
     
  15. This post has been removed.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.

    The incongruency between the problem (high gas prices) and the solution (drill baby drill) is symptomatic of the political culture that continues to degrade in the United States.  The fact is gas prices are an immediate problem while more drilling is a solution that will only have an impact, and not a major one, down the road many many years.  Cries for more drilling then have no demonstrable effect on pump prices and people need to be honest about that.  I am not against expanded drilling both in the under utlized areas that are not being developed but also new areas, but not as a knee jerk reaction to a problem that more drilling won't solve.  We don't need another government subsidized money grab, we need relief. 

    As the OP stated we had a mirror of this same debate back in 2008 and the net result was nothing.  Gas prices sunk after the market tanked and investors pulled money out of the commodities markets abandoning their "long positions" that were artificially inflating oil prices.  As the economy began to recovery investors instinctively sought buy low in commodities yet again and the result has been a steady increase in costs at the pump.  Again.  Ask your local gas station owner if these prices are producing huge profits for them and you will hear that they are not.  The only folks making out are the investors and the oil companies.  Everyone else, whether they drive or not is paying is the price. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.

    In Response to Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.:
    [QUOTE]The incongruency between the problem (high gas prices) and the solution (drill baby drill) is symptomatic of the political culture that continues to degrade in the United States.  The fact is gas prices are an immediate problem while more drilling is a solution that will only have an impact, and not a major one, down the road many many years.  Cries for more drilling then have no demonstrable effect on pump prices and people need to be honest about that.  I am not against expanded drilling both in the under utlized areas that are not being developed but also new areas, but not as a knee jerk reaction to a problem that more drilling won't solve.  We don't need another government subsidized money grab, we need relief.  As the OP stated we had a mirror of this same debate back in 2008 and the net result was nothing.  Gas prices sunk after the market tanked and investors pulled money out of the commodities markets abandoning their "long positions" that were artificially inflating oil prices.  As the economy began to recovery investors instinctively sought buy low in commodities yet again and the result has been a steady increase in costs at the pump.  Again.  Ask your local gas station owner if these prices are producing huge profits for them and you will hear that they are not.  The only folks making out are the investors and the oil companies.  Everyone else, whether they drive or not is paying is the price. 
    Posted by DamainAllen[/QUOTE]

    If the US produced more locally and didn't depend on foreign oil, the speculation surrounding all the political unrest wouldn't have as big an effect.

    I also don't like sending all the money overseas for exploration costs when we could spend the money locally.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.

    In Response to Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.:
    [QUOTE]The incongruency between the problem (high gas prices) and the solution (drill baby drill) is symptomatic of the political culture that continues to degrade in the United States.  The fact is gas prices are an immediate problem while more drilling is a solution that will only have an impact, and not a major one, down the road many many years.  Cries for more drilling then have no demonstrable effect on pump prices and people need to be honest about that.  I am not against expanded drilling both in the under utlized areas that are not being developed but also new areas, but not as a knee jerk reaction to a problem that more drilling won't solve.  We don't need another government subsidized money grab, we need relief.  As the OP stated we had a mirror of this same debate back in 2008 and the net result was nothing.  Gas prices sunk after the market tanked and investors pulled money out of the commodities markets abandoning their "long positions" that were artificially inflating oil prices.  As the economy began to recovery investors instinctively sought buy low in commodities yet again and the result has been a steady increase in costs at the pump.  Again.  Ask your local gas station owner if these prices are producing huge profits for them and you will hear that they are not.  The only folks making out are the investors and the oil companies.  Everyone else, whether they drive or not is paying is the price. 
    Posted by DamainAllen[/QUOTE]

    "The fact is gas prices are an immediate problem while more drilling is a solution that will only have an impact, and not a major one, down the road many many years."

    Simply not true.  you don't understand how speculation works.  If the intent to drill, and the ability to drill, is known now, then speculators lower their outlook now becasue you have increased the certainty of a larger supply.  Additionally, the long term curve is bent downwards almost immediately, and permanently, lacking other impacts, because of the future expectation of the U.S. not importing a larger percent of their oil, meaning more oil is available on the other than U.S. market.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from macnh1. Show macnh1's posts

    Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.

    I think staying dependant on foriegn oil is a great idea because those nations that supply us oil are very stable and all love us.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.

    Bush had 8 years in office and 6 years with a repub congress to get all the oil they wanted. And yet it still didn't happen.

    Meanwhile, Mrs. Palin's biggest accomplishment turns out to be a tax on oil companies which pays the state's residents and has resulted in a huge budget surplus.

    And weren't these two the supposed 'energy experts."...??  The problem is NOT supply, the problem is transferral - getting the oil form the interior of the continent to the refineries on the gulf.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.

    In Response to Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.:
    [QUOTE]Bush had 8 years in office and 6 years with a repub congress to get all the oil they wanted. And yet it still didn't happen. Meanwhile, Mrs. Palin's biggest accomplishment turns out to be a tax on oil companies which pays the state's residents and has resulted in a huge budget surplus. And weren't these two the supposed 'energy experts."...??  The problem is NOT supply, the problem is transferral - getting the oil form the interior of the continent to the refineries on the gulf.
    Posted by MattyScornD[/QUOTE]

    Agreed on Bush.

    And the problem with Palin diverting the flow of Big Oil money to the people is????

    Seems to me that Palin has done what all you progressives squawk about endlessly, put Big Oil in their place.

    To the extent that refineries are a problem, it is because there are not enough of them.

    The supply issue is complicated, and yes, it is the problem, it is always the problem.  Keynsians don't get that.  Different grades, locations, and political stability, extraction cost, and more, all play a role.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.

    In Response to Re: There would be no price impact at all until 2020 and only 3 cents to 5 cents a gallon in 2030.:
    [QUOTE]The problem is NOT supply, the problem is transferral - getting the oil form the interior of the continent to the refineries on the gulf.
    Posted by MattyScornD[/QUOTE]

    It's both, but transferral or transmission and refinery capicity are two near term problems that need to be solved.  Palin's Alaska pipe transmission line is being slowed by enviro NYMBY's and every other conveyance and refinery has been slowed by enviro Nymby's for years.

    We have oil backed up in the middle of the country and refinery capacity issues in the gulf; the left and right coasts won't allow any refineries, drilling, wind farms, nukes, electric transmission lines from hydroquebec and the list goes on, no wonder energy prices are high on the coasts.

     

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