Trayvon-Zimmerman

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from AlleyCatBruin. Show AlleyCatBruin's posts

    Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman

    In Response to Trayvon-Zimmerman:
    [QUOTE]The way I see it played out, not as much hype and dramatics as the OJ trial. Hopefully the judge won't be the loon that controlled (?) the Anna Nicole trial. Not as drawn out as the Casey Anthony trial.There will be a few surprises that will have some coming back here saying "told you so." They'll be the constant barrage of forum quarterbacks. The drama will all take place with the talk shows and news outlets. I see it ending with Zimmerman being set free. Riots will follow, I have no doubt. Sadly there will be another Reginald Denny story, although I don't think it will be a white victim. Zimmerman will make headlines again with a sad ending. In the end, it will all become yesterdays news and they'll be something else for us to yammer about. Anyone else care to share how they see it played out?
    Posted by msobstinate99[/QUOTE]

    I don't see how Zimmerman can be set free. He shot an un-armed kid who was not breaking any laws. He was told to not follow the kid, and still did. Does the Florida law (Stand and Defend or whatever its called) make it legal for an armed person to follow someone and then shoot them if that person resists? I think Zimmerman will do time for manslaughter.
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman

    In Response to Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Trayvon-Zimmerman : I don't see how Zimmerman can be set free. He shot an un-armed kid who was not breaking any laws. He was told to not follow the kid, and still did. Does the Florida law (Stand and Defend or whatever its called) make it legal for an armed person to follow someone and then shoot them if that person resists? I think Zimmerman will do time for manslaughter.
    Posted by AlleyCatBruin[/QUOTE]

    AlleyCat:

    It is called the Stand Your Ground Law. Florida was the first state to have this law. Since it was enacted homicides have gone way up in Florida. At this point in time, 25 states now have a version of this law.

    It does give George Zimmerman a strong defense. Even if Florida decides to rewrite this law, or even repeal it, when Zimmerman comes to trial he will be tried under the laws that were in effect the night of the shooting.

    I have read the charging document. It only reads second degree murder. A prosecutor can go for a single charge, and not allow the jury the choice of lesser included charges. In other words all or nothing. 

    Reuben and WDYWN who both have practiced criminal law would be good posters to weigh in on this issue. They have posted all along on this case, as have I.
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman

    The above is corrrect, but the vast majority of the legal community believe that the defense will not be successful and the jury trial will therefore proceed.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman

    The trial of George Zimmerman could end up be just as divisive as the O.J. Simpson trial and just as inflammatory as the Rodney King Trial.

    A recent Newsweek poll showns that blacks and whites view this case quite differently. 78% of blacks view the President's comments on the case as appropriate while just 28%% of whites do. 80% of blacks feel Martin's death was racially motivated while just 35% of whites thought so. 

    The Stand Your Ground Law is already been politicized. Hopefully with a strong prosecutor and and decent legal teams this will not be the case.

    Zimmerman is set to stand trial for second degree murder. But the Stand Your Ground Law may be a very difficult defense to overcome. I have posted before, I believe this law should also be on trial.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from brat13. Show brat13's posts

    Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman

    In Response to Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman : Possibly seeking a manslaughter plea. Basically, I think it's plainly second degree murder IF the evidence does not support self-defense. Shooting someone in the chest clearly fits the bill: "(1) a person of ordinary judgment would know is reasonably certain to kill or do serious bodily injury to another," Of course, if Zimmerman was entitled to engage in self-defense, but the jury finds that shooting zimmerman was a use of excessive force, then a manslaughter conviction would be appropriate. At least that's true of MA. Maybe I'll check out florida again later.
    Posted by WhatDoYouWantNow[/QUOTE]
    Not a lawyer but, doesn't it have to be proven his actions leading up to the point of the shot that it was "would know is reasonably certain to kill or do serious bodily injury to another,"? Following someone who you deem suspicious is "reasonably certain to kill or or do serious bodily injury to another"? WOW, OK if you say so. How many times does this play out every year from a neighborhood watch and not end in someone killed?
     
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    Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman

    In Response to Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman : Murder 2 might be a reach, but it is likely she went that route in order to have room to plead him down to manslaughter, which seems more appropriate.  The arrest affadavit that was filed seems to indicate they aren't buying Zimmerman's story abut how everything went down, they clearly note that he pursued Trayvon after being told not to by the police, and the report does nto include his version of events (that he was jumped from behind).  I don't think the prosecutor is trying to run a game, I think she is gunning for a conviction. 
    Posted by DamainAllen[/QUOTE]
    That is how I am leaning. Hope to scare him with 25 to life so he will plead to 7.
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman

    As more comes out. Some should be ashamed and embarrassed of their rush to judgement!
     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman

    In Response to Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman:
    [QUOTE]Zimmerman is coward, just like anyone who walks around with a gun who isn't a cop.  Without that gun in his pocket, Zimmerman might have had to use his bare hands in a confrontation, so he would have stayed in his van like the coward he is.  His gun gave him his courage, and the backwards GOP gun laws in Florida allow these cowards to shoot first, then claim self-defense. 
    Posted by UserName99[/QUOTE]

    People who call people they do not know and have not walked in their steps cowards are cowards!!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman

    In Response to Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman : I'm saying that Zimmerman without a gun sits in his van and calls the cops, and Martin lives.  But the Zimmerman with a gun gets out of his van and approaches people that he profiles as suspicious, because he knows he can just 'defend himself' if things go badly. Allowing a person like this to carry a gun turns him into a predator.
    Posted by UserName99[/QUOTE]

     Cops sometimnes shoot people who threaten them!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman

    In Response to Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman:
    [QUOTE]I think no matter what happens, this case will be the one that ultimately lead to repeal of the stand your ground law in Florida.  Not solely because of the case but because it is problematic for state prosecutors.  There are drug dealers who have gotten off for shooting other drug dealers because they used the stand your ground law as defense.  The law was drafted poorly and there are some serious unintended consequences because of it. 
    Posted by DamainAllen[/QUOTE]

    Not a chance! Its not even about the stand your ground law.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hingmarsh. Show Hingmarsh's posts

    Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman

    Andiejean: Your comment that homicides in FL have gone "way up" since it was enacted in 2005 is not true.  Based on FBI statistics, there was an increase for the first few years after enactment but not "Way up".  It's now back down.

    By year, per 100,000:
    1996  7.5
    1997  6.9
    1998  6.5
    1999  5.7
    2000  5.6
    2001  5.3
    2002  5.5
    2003  5.4
    2004  5.4
    2005 5.0
    2006  6.2
    2007  6.6
    2008  6.4
    2009  5.5
    2010  5.2
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman

    In Response to Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman : They certainly do that a lot, don't they...?? It's likely how these moronically mis-applied 'stand your ground' laws got passed in the first place.
    Posted by MattyScornD[/QUOTE]

    Or it could of been because so many innocent people unarmed and defensless and were being terrified and killed by criminals with guns
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman

    In Response to Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman : Possibly seeking a manslaughter plea. Basically, I think it's plainly second degree murder IF the evidence does not support self-defense. Shooting someone in the chest clearly fits the bill: "(1) a person of ordinary judgment would know is reasonably certain to kill or do serious bodily injury to another," Of course, if Zimmerman was entitled to engage in self-defense, but the jury finds that shooting zimmerman was a use of excessive force, then a manslaughter conviction would be appropriate. At least that's true of MA. Maybe I'll check out florida again later.
    Posted by WhatDoYouWantNow[/QUOTE]

    True and sadly he may take an involutary manslughter plea, time served and probation.

    either way its a tragedy since we will not ever kno what really happened and either Trayvon didn't get justice or Zimmerman got abused by the system!
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman

    I just watched the video of Zimmerman in court. I didn't realize he was such a small man. He looks about 5' 8" maybe 150.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman

    In Response to Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman : Or it could of been because so many innocent people unarmed and defensless and were being terrified and killed by criminals with guns
    Posted by tvoter[/QUOTE]

    So Trayvon Martin needed this law...
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman

    In Response to Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman : True and sadly he may take an involutary manslughter plea, time served and probation. either way its a tragedy since we will not ever kno what really happened and either Trayvon didn't get justice or Zimmerman got abused by the system!
    Posted by tvoter[/QUOTE]

    If he takes a manslaughter plea he takes time too.  More than a couple of days.  And no matter whether there is a trial or a plea we will never know what "really" happened.  Martin is dead and can't tell his side.
     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hingmarsh. Show Hingmarsh's posts

    Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman

    In Response to Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman : Are those numbers only for deaths that were considered a crime and thus disregard those deaths that were not prosecuted? In other words, do you know if your numbers include deaths that were deemed appropriate or legal under the law? Just curious...
    Posted by airborne-rgr[/QUOTE]

    They are crime statistics.  They include cases where someone could claim either justifiable homicide or self defense but, upon criminal investigation, were still charged.
     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hingmarsh. Show Hingmarsh's posts

    Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman

    In Response to Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Trayvon-Zimmerman : They are only cases were charges were brought...correct? So the Zimmerman case, before the indictment, when he was let go by the police, would not be included but the latest charges would be included in those stats. Am I reading your response correctly?
    Posted by airborne-rgr[/QUOTE]


    According to the FBI website, this is the criteria they use distinguishing homicides from justifiable homicides:

    The killing of a felon, during the commission of a felony, by a private citizen. Because these killings are determined through law enforcement investigation to be justifiable, they are tabulated separately from murder and nonnegligent manslaughter. Justifiable homicide information can be found in Expanded Homicide Data Table 14, “Justifiable Homicide, by Weapon, Law Enforcement, 2006–2010” and Expanded Homicide Data Table 15, “Justifiable Homicide, by Weapon, Private Citizen, 2006–2010.”

    My interpretation of these statistics is that they would NOT include a Zimmerman type case until charges are brought.
     

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