US Government Made $100 Billion in Improper Payments

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    US Government Made $100 Billion in Improper Payments

    WASHINGTON (AP) — By its own estimate, the government made about $100 billion in payments last year to people who may not have been entitled to receive them — tax credits to families that didn’t qualify, unemployment benefits to people who had jobs and medical payments for treatments that might not have been necessary.


    Congressional investigators say the figure could be even higher...


    http://www.boston.com/business/news/2014/07/09/government-made-improper-payments/ktINeJhudKB3Oq4NLHB3mJ/story.html?p1=Topopage:Test_B:sub_headline_3


     


    And yet people want our govt to run healthcare entirely....

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: US Government Made $100 Billion in Improper Payments

    A billion here, a billion there. pretty soon it adds up to real money.

     

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: US Government Made $100 Billion in Improper Payments


    Thankfully, Liberals have a solution to the problem of Government overreach and waste: 


    A brand new federal Government Cabinet agency called the "Department of Watching Out for Improper Payments"....


     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName9. Show UserName9's posts

    Re: US Government Made $100 Billion in Improper Payments

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    And yet people want our govt to run healthcare entirely....

    [/QUOTE]


    Indeed there are.  Healthcare spending is approaching 20% of our GDP, whereas single-payer government systems are roughly half that.

    A lot of that $100 billion is a result of private companies with a profit incentive to 'work the system' and rip off taxpayers to improve their bottom line.

    The

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: US Government Made $100 Billion in Improper Payments

    They always find a way to blame the private sector, don't they?

     

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: US Government Made $100 Billion in Improper Payments

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    WASHINGTON (AP) — By its own estimate, the government made about $100 billion in payments last year to people who may not have been entitled to receive them — tax credits to families that didn’t qualify, unemployment benefits to people who had jobs and medical payments for treatments that might not have been necessary.

     

    Congressional investigators say the figure could be even higher...

     

    http://www.boston.com/business/news/2014/07/09/government-made-improper-payments/ktINeJhudKB3Oq4NLHB3mJ/story.html?p1=Topopage:Test_B:sub_headline_3

     

     

     

    And yet people want our govt to run healthcare entirely....

    [/QUOTE]B I N G O  DAT !!!


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName9. Show UserName9's posts

    Re: US Government Made $100 Billion in Improper Payments

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They always find a way to blame the private sector, don't they?

     

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.

    [/QUOTE]


    Well, in this case it ain't the government that is ordering procedures or prescriptions that may not be necessary, just so they can bill for it.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: US Government Made $100 Billion in Improper Payments

    In response to UserName9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    And yet people want our govt to run healthcare entirely....

    [/QUOTE]


    Indeed there are.  Healthcare spending is approaching 20% of our GDP, whereas single-payer government systems are roughly half that.

    A lot of that $100 billion is a result of private companies with a profit incentive to 'work the system' and rip off taxpayers to improve their bottom line.

    The

    [/QUOTE]

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

    Guess ya didn't read the article

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: US Government Made $100 Billion in Improper Payments

    Clearly, this is cause enough to eliminate all government payments, proper or improper.


    </sarc off/>

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from high-road. Show high-road's posts

    Re: US Government Made $100 Billion in Improper Payments

    In response to WhatNowDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    A few more notes from the article:

     

    - Agencies recovered more than $22 billion in overpayments last year.

    - ‘Payments deemed ‘improper’ under these circumstances tend to be the result of documentation and coding errors made by the provider as opposed to payments made for inappropriate claims,’’ Agrawal said in prepared testimony for Wednesday’s hearing.

    - Davis said some agencies don’t develop estimates for programs that could be susceptible to improper payments. For example, the Health and Human Services Department says it cannot force states to help it develop estimates for the cash welfare program known as Temporary Assistance for Needy Families. The program is administered by the states.

    - Each year, federal agencies are required to estimate the amount of improper payments they issue. They include overpayments, underpayments, payments to the wrong recipient and payments that were made without proper documentation.

    - Some improper payments are the result of fraud, while others are unintentional, caused by clerical errors or mistakes in awarding benefits without proper verification. In 2013, federal agencies made $97 billion in overpayments, according to agency estimates. Underpayments totaled $9 billion.

    - [Medicare programs accounted for] $50 billion in improper payments in the 2013 budget year, far exceeding any other program. Most of the payments were deemed improper because they were issued without proper documentation, said Shantanu Agrawal, a deputy administrator for the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services. In some cases, the paperwork didn’t verify that services were medically necessary.

     

     

     

     

    So, while it sounds like there is still quite a bit of waste here, a good chunk of that 100 billion figure is either:

    (a) recovered, or

    (b) not fraudulent and is only marked 'improper' because of a coding/paperwork issue. That is, they may very well be valid payments that are improper only because somebody forgot to submit a form.

    [/QUOTE]


    It also says that the states administer TANF ...

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: US Government Made $100 Billion in Improper Payments

    In response to WhatNowDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    WASHINGTON (AP) — By its own estimate, the government made about $100 billion in payments last year to people who may not have been entitled to receive them— tax credits to families that didn’t qualify, unemployment benefits to people who had jobs and medical payments for treatments that might not have been necessary.

     

    Quite a lot.

    It's curious that we have data from which we can estimate the number of fraudulently received payments we're sending out but.....are still sending them out.

    I know that they said they recovered 4.3 billion in FY 2013 of medicare fraud. Is the problem perhaps not enough resources to investigate and charge these people? I'd imagine there's quite a bit of paperwork to look through to catch fraudulent billing, and they probably are stuck doing it based on improbable procedures-per-hour bench marks (unless medicare patients' medical records aren't protected from government review)

    Huntsman-like tax reform would get rid of the tax issues because there wouldn't be any credits to claim.

    The UI thing also sounds like an enforcement problem, though also not clear whether it's lack of investigative resources or a lot of investigative incompetence...

     

     

     

     

     

    (I know, the CLCs will say that actually, this is all deliberate on the part of the agency workers because that's what they live for)....

    [/QUOTE]

    Department makes billions in improper payments.

    Private sector : Entire Department fired immediately, radical system reform, doesnt happen again, or business goes bust.

    Public sector: Department gets increased funding because there were "not enough resources" . And heck, Department recovered a small portion of its screwups, bully for them.......rinse, lather, repeat...

    WDYWN: "not enough resources to catch these people". So you agree with a new "Dept of Watching Out for Improper Payments"   Great.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from high-road. Show high-road's posts

    Re: US Government Made $100 Billion in Improper Payments

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:



    Department makes billions in improper payments.
    Private sector : Entire Department fired immediately, radical system reform, doesnt happen again, or business goes bust.
     
    Public sector: Department gets increased funding because there were "not enough resources" . And heck, Department recovered a small portion of its screwups, bully for them.......rinse, lather, repeat...

    WDYWN: "not enough resources to catch these people". So you agree with a new "Dept of Watching Out for Improper Payments"   Great.


    Riiiiiight ....


    What about all the financial sector executive officers who got bonuses immediately after collaterizing mortgage derivatives to mask their underlying weakness, which in turn collapsed the entire finacial sector resulting in billions of dollars of taxpayer bailouts and investors losing trillions of dollars of value?


    How about the CEO's of mortgage originators who got billions in bonuses for writing no-doc mortgages, who improperly foreclosed on homeowners, who failed to do their fiduciary duty as executives and allowed a system of corruption and malfeasance to permeate their companies leading to their collapse and the loss of trillions of stockholders value?


    It's quite amazing that even with those horse blinders on, you don't at least stumble into a truth once in a while.


     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: US Government Made $100 Billion in Improper Payments

    In response to high-road's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

     

     


    Department makes billions in improper payments.
    Private sector : Entire Department fired immediately, radical system reform, doesnt happen again, or business goes bust.
     
    Public sector: Department gets increased funding because there were "not enough resources" . And heck, Department recovered a small portion of its screwups, bully for them.......rinse, lather, repeat...

    WDYWN: "not enough resources to catch these people". So you agree with a new "Dept of Watching Out for Improper Payments"   Great.

     

     

     

    Riiiiiight ....

     

    What about all the financial sector executive officers who got bonuses immediately after collaterizing mortgage derivatives to mask their underlying weakness, which in turn collapsed the entire finacial sector resulting in billions of dollars of taxpayer bailouts and investors losing trillions of dollars of value?

     

    How about the CEO's of mortgage originators who got billions in bonuses for writing no-doc mortgages, who improperly foreclosed on homeowners, who failed to do their fiduciary duty as executives and allowed a system of corruption and malfeasance to permeate their companies leading to their collapse and the loss of trillions of stockholders value?

     

    It's quite amazing that even with those horse blinders on, you don't at least stumble into a truth once in a while.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The truth being, the mortgage collapse of 2008 was CAUSED by Government policies.....

    Left to their own devices, mortgage banks, in competition in a free market system,  would not make risky loans....instead, meddling Government regulators forced toxic loans to be made.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: US Government Made $100 Billion in Improper Payments

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:


    WASHINGTON (AP) — By its own estimate, the government made about $100 billion in payments last year to people who may not have been entitled to receive them — tax credits to families that didn’t qualify, unemployment benefits to people who had jobs and medical payments for treatments that might not have been necessary.


     


    Congressional investigators say the figure could be even higher...


     


    http://www.boston.com/business/news/2014/07/09/government-made-improper-payments/ktINeJhudKB3Oq4NLHB3mJ/story.html?p1=Topopage:Test_B:sub_headline_3


     


     


     


    And yet people want our govt to run healthcare entirely....




    It's BS.  The vast majority of the overpayments were for Medicare and Medicaid.  And the vast majority of those payments were due to bad paper work - not because the work was done or or was needed.  And because its medicare and medicaid, any payments made for work that wasn't done or warranted can be recouped.


    It's nonsense.

     
  15. This post has been removed.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: US Government Made $100 Billion in Improper Payments

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They always find a way to blame the private sector, don't they?

     

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.

    [/QUOTE]


    News flash - The Feds don't manage Medicare and Medicaid - the states do.  And the States outsource the processing of claims, and sometimes the entire program, to private sector companies.  I know cause I work for one.

    We also have our own insurance.  We overpay all the time - but not by a lot.  Making sure that every claim was perfect and every claim was warranted would require manually reviewing every claim.  We used to review every claim but stopped when we realized that it was costing us $10 million to save $9 million.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from high-road. Show high-road's posts

    Re: US Government Made $100 Billion in Improper Payments

    In response to WhatNowDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    [QUOTE]The truth being, the mortgage collapse of 2008 was CAUSED by Government policies.....[/QUOTE]

     

     


    As always, the truth is orders of magnitude more complicated than CLC says. As honest folk know, the mortgage collapse was caused by:

     

    - (Yes), government policies. Specifically, both Republican and Democrat "home ownership society" policies that were directed at making it too easy for persons who shouldn't really be getting loans to get them.

     

    - The banks who gave the loans. They aren't absolved just because there was a "government policy" out there.

     

    - The people who took the loans. They aren't absolved just because it was possible to get a loan.

     

    - The unscrupulous and vile finance persons that repackaged the loans to hide the risk and kept doing it until even they didn't know what they were selling.......and who often then went and shorted the market to boot. (These guys take a huge amount of the blame).

     

    - The financial deregulators who made that even easier.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The bankc that were subject to the CRA comprised less than 10% of all mortgages and they had a lower default rate than loans originated by mortgage companies.

    Mortgage companies, which comprised 70% of the market, were not subject to CRA oversight.

    Private mortgage lenders are wholly responsible for their own credit requirements, there is no federal regulation or policy that affects or mandates the creditwothiness of borrowers or the terms of the loans that mortgage companies can or must write. It is entirely up to each lender as to how much risk they wish to assume with each lender.

    It is up to the lenders to do their due diligence and verify all applications.

    The only argument that could be made is that the federal gov't didn't set minimum standards for these no-doc loans.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: US Government Made $100 Billion in Improper Payments

    In response to high-road's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to WhatNowDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    [QUOTE]The truth being, the mortgage collapse of 2008 was CAUSED by Government policies.....[/QUOTE]

     

     


    As always, the truth is orders of magnitude more complicated than CLC says. As honest folk know, the mortgage collapse was caused by:

     

    - (Yes), government policies. Specifically, both Republican and Democrat "home ownership society" policies that were directed at making it too easy for persons who shouldn't really be getting loans to get them.

     

    - The banks who gave the loans. They aren't absolved just because there was a "government policy" out there.

     

    - The people who took the loans. They aren't absolved just because it was possible to get a loan.

     

    - The unscrupulous and vile finance persons that repackaged the loans to hide the risk and kept doing it until even they didn't know what they were selling.......and who often then went and shorted the market to boot. (These guys take a huge amount of the blame).

     

    - The financial deregulators who made that even easier.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The bankc that were subject to the CRA comprised less than 10% of all mortgages and they had a lower default rate than loans originated by mortgage companies.

    Mortgage companies, which comprised 70% of the market, were not subject to CRA oversight.

    Private mortgage lenders are wholly responsible for their own credit requirements, there is no federal regulation or policy that affects or mandates the creditwothiness of borrowers or the terms of the loans that mortgage companies can or must write. It is entirely up to each lender as to how much risk they wish to assume with each lender.

    It is up to the lenders to do their due diligence and verify all applications.

    The only argument that could be made is that the federal gov't didn't set minimum standards for these no-doc loans.

    [/QUOTE]

    But the democrats forced Lehman bros to finance risky 30 year investments with overnight loans.  They forced Lehman bros to force mortgage companies to sell them risky mortgages.

    it wasn't just the risky mortgages, it's was mixing the risky mortgages with prime mortgages, making the entire pool risky.  And then financing the risk with extremely short term borrowing.  And then getting the worlds largest insurance company to insure all of it.  what they did was beyond stupid, except for one thing - they got rich doing it.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: US Government Made $100 Billion in Improper Payments

    In response to WhatNowDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    [QUOTE]The truth being, the mortgage collapse of 2008 was CAUSED by Government policies.....[/QUOTE]

     

     


    As always, the truth is orders of magnitude more complicated than CLC says. As honest folk know, the mortgage collapse was caused by:

     

    - (Yes), government policies. Specifically, both Republican and Democrat "home ownership society" policies that were directed at making it too easy for persons who shouldn't really be getting loans to get them.

     

    - The banks who gave the loans. They aren't absolved just because there was a "government policy" out there.

     

    - The people who took the loans. They aren't absolved just because it was possible to get a loan.

     

    - The unscrupulous and vile finance persons that repackaged the loans to hide the risk and kept doing it until even they didn't know what they were selling.......and who often then went and shorted the market to boot. (These guys take a huge amount of the blame).

     

    - The financial deregulators who made that even easier.

     

     [/QUOTE]


    I have a hard time placing blame on the single-family home buyers.  The pitch was "look at home values - they're skyrocketing.  If you don't get in now, you may never have a chance.  You can re-finance when the balloon payment is due with all the equity you will have in five years."  This is what the 'experts' were telling you.  Placing blame on the first-time home buyer is like blaming a patient for a doctor's misdiagnosis.  Buyers for luxury homes, vacation homes, or 'flippers' - that's another story.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: US Government Made $100 Billion in Improper Payments

    In response to slomag's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to WhatNowDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    [QUOTE]The truth being, the mortgage collapse of 2008 was CAUSED by Government policies.....[/QUOTE]

     

     


    As always, the truth is orders of magnitude more complicated than CLC says. As honest folk know, the mortgage collapse was caused by:

     

    - (Yes), government policies. Specifically, both Republican and Democrat "home ownership society" policies that were directed at making it too easy for persons who shouldn't really be getting loans to get them.

     

    - The banks who gave the loans. They aren't absolved just because there was a "government policy" out there.

     

    - The people who took the loans. They aren't absolved just because it was possible to get a loan.

     

    - The unscrupulous and vile finance persons that repackaged the loans to hide the risk and kept doing it until even they didn't know what they were selling.......and who often then went and shorted the market to boot. (These guys take a huge amount of the blame).

     

    - The financial deregulators who made that even easier.

     

     [/QUOTE]


    I have a hard time placing blame on the single-family home buyers.  The pitch was "look at home values - they're skyrocketing.  If you don't get in now, you may never have a chance.  You can re-finance when the balloon payment is due with all the equity you will have in five years."  This is what the 'experts' were telling you.  Placing blame on the first-time home buyer is like blaming a patient for a doctor's misdiagnosis.  Buyers for luxury homes, vacation homes, or 'flippers' - that's another story.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Are you kidding me? Sorry but I was a first time home buyer in 2005. A lender tried to talk me into a 5 yr interest only ARM. I did the research and realized I could end up with a higher mortgage payment after the 5 years. Ya, no thanks. So I did what any responsible adult should do and bought something at lower price. Sure it was a tiny place. But I didn't have to worry about losing my place like others did. Sorry, but if you're going to sign off on a mortgage that involves hundred's of thousands of dollars then ultimately it's on you the home buyer. I don't care what "experts" say....no one forced these people to buy. No one forced these people to believe the hype....they CHOSE to. This is the problem these days...no one wants to be held accountable for their actions. 

     

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