Wall Street Journal Says Egypt needs a Pinochet

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Wall Street Journal Says Egypt needs a Pinochet

    The Chilean dictator presided over the torture and murder of thousands, yet still the free-market right revers his name

    On Friday, the Wall Street Journal published an editorial entitled “After the Coup in Cairo”. Its final paragraph contained these words:

    Egyptians would be lucky if their new ruling generals turn out to be in the mold of Chile’s Augusto Pinochet, who took over power amid chaos but hired free-market reformers and midwifed a transition to democracy.

    Presumably, this means that those who speak for the Wall Street Journal – the editorial was unsigned – think Egypt should think itself lucky if its ruling generals now preside over a 17-year reign of terror. I also take it the WSJ means us to associate two governments removed by generals – the one led by Salvador Allende in Chile and the one led by Mohamed Morsi in Egypt. Islamist, socialist … elected, legitimate … who cares?

     

    The above is from an article in "The Guardian".

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Wall Street Journal Says Egypt needs a Pinochet


    Now, I can understand why they might need bottled water, maybe some food, but what on Earth are they going to do with a wooden puppet of a boy?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Wall Street Journal Says Egypt needs a Pinochet

    In response to andiejen's comment:

    The Chilean dictator presided over the torture and murder of thousands, yet still the free-market right revers his name

    On Friday, the Wall Street Journal published an editorial entitled “After the Coup in Cairo”. Its final paragraph contained these words:

    Egyptians would be lucky if their new ruling generals turn out to be in the mold of Chile’s Augusto Pinochet, who took over power amid chaos but hired free-market reformers and midwifed a transition to democracy.

    Presumably, this means that those who speak for the Wall Street Journal – the editorial was unsigned – think Egypt should think itself lucky if its ruling generals now preside over a 17-year reign of terror. I also take it the WSJ means us to associate two governments removed by generals – the one led by Salvador Allende in Chile and the one led by Mohamed Morsi in Egypt. Islamist, socialist … elected, legitimate … who cares?

     

    The above is from an article in "The Guardian".



    But seriously, Pinochet was bad, but he was preceded by bad.  Allende was a socialist thug who destroyed Chile, economically and socially. 

    Nor was Pinochet a right winger, in the traditional sense. He was more of a straight out dictator, i.e. supress the people for their own good.

    Fixing the economy was at least a partial success, but I don't see how that validates a tyranny.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: Wall Street Journal Says Egypt needs a Pinochet

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to andiejen's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    The Chilean dictator presided over the torture and murder of thousands, yet still the free-market right revers his name

    On Friday, the Wall Street Journal published an editorial entitled “After the Coup in Cairo”. Its final paragraph contained these words:

    Egyptians would be lucky if their new ruling generals turn out to be in the mold of Chile’s Augusto Pinochet, who took over power amid chaos but hired free-market reformers and midwifed a transition to democracy.

    Presumably, this means that those who speak for the Wall Street Journal – the editorial was unsigned – think Egypt should think itself lucky if its ruling generals now preside over a 17-year reign of terror. I also take it the WSJ means us to associate two governments removed by generals – the one led by Salvador Allende in Chile and the one led by Mohamed Morsi in Egypt. Islamist, socialist … elected, legitimate … who cares?

     

    The above is from an article in "The Guardian".

     



    But seriously, Pinochet was bad, but he was preceded by bad.  Allende was a socialist thug who destroyed Chile, economically and socially. 

     

    Nor was Pinochet a right winger, in the traditional sense. He was more of a straight out dictator, i.e. supress the people for their own good.

    Fixing the economy was at least a partial success, but I don't see how that validates a tyranny.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    skeeter,

    It does not validate a tyranny. Those 17 years in Chile were nothing short of horriffic. 

    For the WSJ to come straight out and declare Egypt now needs a dictator in the mold of Pinochet is stunning.

    Nobody put their name to that editorial, but it is an WSJ editorial, read by how many?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: Wall Street Journal Says Egypt needs a Pinochet

    I think what they need is a George Washington.

    --

    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Wall Street Journal Says Egypt needs a Pinochet

    In response to andiejen's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to andiejen's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    The Chilean dictator presided over the torture and murder of thousands, yet still the free-market right revers his name

    On Friday, the Wall Street Journal published an editorial entitled “After the Coup in Cairo”. Its final paragraph contained these words:

    Egyptians would be lucky if their new ruling generals turn out to be in the mold of Chile’s Augusto Pinochet, who took over power amid chaos but hired free-market reformers and midwifed a transition to democracy.

    Presumably, this means that those who speak for the Wall Street Journal – the editorial was unsigned – think Egypt should think itself lucky if its ruling generals now preside over a 17-year reign of terror. I also take it the WSJ means us to associate two governments removed by generals – the one led by Salvador Allende in Chile and the one led by Mohamed Morsi in Egypt. Islamist, socialist … elected, legitimate … who cares?

     

    The above is from an article in "The Guardian".

     

     



    But seriously, Pinochet was bad, but he was preceded by bad.  Allende was a socialist thug who destroyed Chile, economically and socially. 

     

     

    Nor was Pinochet a right winger, in the traditional sense. He was more of a straight out dictator, i.e. supress the people for their own good.

    Fixing the economy was at least a partial success, but I don't see how that validates a tyranny.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    skeeter,

     

    It does not validate a tyranny. Those 17 years in Chile were nothing short of horriffic. 

    For the WSJ to come straight out and declare Egypt now needs a dictator in the mold of Pinochet is stunning.

    Nobody put their name to that editorial, but it is an WSJ editorial, read by how many?

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree in part. What I see is that in times of uncertainty, people tend to ask for things that Eliminate thbun certainty. I don't think this is a right wing thing, but a fear thing.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: Wall Street Journal Says Egypt needs a Pinochet

    skeeter,

     


    "I agree in part. What I see is that in times of uncertainty, people tend to ask for things that Eliminate thbun certainty. I don't think this is a right wing thing, but a fear thing."

     

    It should be a fear thing. How many dead now and how many injured with the count rising. Americans urged to leave now.

    But another Pinochet is not the answer. I cannot believe most on the right or any on the left would want that for Egygt. 

    The United States simply cannot support what is in our interest...acorrding to some...or in the interst of the global economy...and condemn the citizens of Egypt to what the citizens of Chile endured for 17 years.

                                                                

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: Wall Street Journal Says Egypt needs a Pinochet

    To paraphrase my daughter as we drove through Arkansas last year, "what Egypt needs is a good power washing."

     

    --

    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Wall Street Journal Says Egypt needs a Pinochet

    In response to andiejen's comment:

     

    skeeter,

     


    "I agree in part. What I see is that in times of uncertainty, people tend to ask for things that Eliminate thbun certainty. I don't think this is a right wing thing, but a fear thing."

     

    It should be a fear thing. How many dead now and how many injured with the count rising. Americans urged to leave now.

    But another Pinochet is not the answer. I cannot believe most on the right or any on the left would want that for Egygt. 

    The United States simply cannot support what is in our interest...acorrding to some...or in the interst of the global economy...and condemn the citizens of Egypt to what the citizens of Chile endured for 17 years.

                                                                

     

     

    I think you are narrowingthe scope too far.  Put Pinochet in proper context.  Chile has had a bad history.  Lately better. To pick Pinochet out of a line of brutal dictators, from the left and the right, and say THAT'S the bad one, well, just not right. they are all bad.  The left has failed consistently for decades to pooh hooh the crimes of Allende, who destroyed the Chilian economy and put millions into poverty.  In many ways, the programs and policies pursued by Allende track with those of the Obama administration.  I guess we have some bad times ahead of us.

    As far as the WSJ:  WSJ, though it appears to lean right, and it does at times, is corporatist.  They like what is stable, not what is right, at least not all the time.  They value results over rights, generally speaking, so their view on Pinochet is expected.  That is why they reference Pinochet.  They are looking for stability, not looking out for the Egyptians. A dictator gives them that corporatist stability.

    So, I am agreeing with you, but also pointing out the hypocricy of the left in not looking at the whole of the Chilean experience.

    I would also point out that, today,  the Chileans enjoy relative freedoms (ranked higher than the U.S.!)and economic stability because they pursued the very economic policies I talk about here, ie. the Austrian and Chicago schools of economic thought.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: Wall Street Journal Says Egypt needs a Pinochet

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:

    To paraphrase my daughter as we drove through Arkansas last year, "what Egypt needs is a good power washing."

     

    --

    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.



    SB,

    You have one smart daughter.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: Wall Street Journal Says Egypt needs a Pinochet

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to andiejen's comment:

     

    skeeter,

     


    "I agree in part. What I see is that in times of uncertainty, people tend to ask for things that Eliminate thbun certainty. I don't think this is a right wing thing, but a fear thing."

     

    It should be a fear thing. How many dead now and how many injured with the count rising. Americans urged to leave now.

    But another Pinochet is not the answer. I cannot believe most on the right or any on the left would want that for Egygt. 

    The United States simply cannot support what is in our interest...acorrding to some...or in the interst of the global economy...and condemn the citizens of Egypt to what the citizens of Chile endured for 17 years.

                                                                

     

     

    I think you are narrowingthe scope too far.  Put Pinochet in proper context.  Chile has had a bad history.  Lately better. To pick Pinochet out of a line of brutal dictators, from the left and the right, and say THAT'S the bad one, well, just not right. they are all bad.  The left has failed consistently for decades to pooh hooh the crimes of Allende, who destroyed the Chilian economy and put millions into poverty.  In many ways, the programs and policies pursued by Allende track with those of the Obama administration.  I guess we have some bad times ahead of us.

    As far as the WSJ:  WSJ, though it appears to lean right, and it does at times, is corporatist.  They like what is stable, not what is right, at least not all the time.  They value results over rights, generally speaking, so their view on Pinochet is expected.  That is why they reference Pinochet.  They are looking for stability, not looking out for the Egyptians. A dictator gives them that corporatist stability.

    So, I am agreeing with you, but also pointing out the hypocricy of the left in not looking at the whole of the Chilean experience.

    I would also point out that, today,  the Chileans enjoy relative freedoms (ranked higher than the U.S.!)and economic stability because they pursued the very economic policies I talk about here, ie. the Austrian and Chicago schools of economic thought.

     



    skeeter,

    I cannot say I disagre with you. The headline of the editorial was a bit stunning. And nobody had the courage to sign it.

    Not a big fan of the Chicago school of economic thought. What a surprise I am sure to you.

    But back to the acual editorial. The WSJ's focus was on the reign of Pinochet. Nothing is worth that. Noboby should be advocating that for Egypt.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: Wall Street Journal Says Egypt needs a Pinochet

    You have one smart daughter.

    Indeed. Probably around three times smarter than me.

     

    --

    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Wall Street Journal Says Egypt needs a Pinochet

    In response to andiejen's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to andiejen's comment:

     

    skeeter,

     


    "I agree in part. What I see is that in times of uncertainty, people tend to ask for things that Eliminate thbun certainty. I don't think this is a right wing thing, but a fear thing."

     

    It should be a fear thing. How many dead now and how many injured with the count rising. Americans urged to leave now.

    But another Pinochet is not the answer. I cannot believe most on the right or any on the left would want that for Egygt. 

    The United States simply cannot support what is in our interest...acorrding to some...or in the interst of the global economy...and condemn the citizens of Egypt to what the citizens of Chile endured for 17 years.

                                                                

     

     

    I think you are narrowingthe scope too far.  Put Pinochet in proper context.  Chile has had a bad history.  Lately better. To pick Pinochet out of a line of brutal dictators, from the left and the right, and say THAT'S the bad one, well, just not right. they are all bad.  The left has failed consistently for decades to pooh hooh the crimes of Allende, who destroyed the Chilian economy and put millions into poverty.  In many ways, the programs and policies pursued by Allende track with those of the Obama administration.  I guess we have some bad times ahead of us.

    As far as the WSJ:  WSJ, though it appears to lean right, and it does at times, is corporatist.  They like what is stable, not what is right, at least not all the time.  They value results over rights, generally speaking, so their view on Pinochet is expected.  That is why they reference Pinochet.  They are looking for stability, not looking out for the Egyptians. A dictator gives them that corporatist stability.

    So, I am agreeing with you, but also pointing out the hypocricy of the left in not looking at the whole of the Chilean experience.

    I would also point out that, today,  the Chileans enjoy relative freedoms (ranked higher than the U.S.!)and economic stability because they pursued the very economic policies I talk about here, ie. the Austrian and Chicago schools of economic thought.

     

     



    skeeter,

     

    I cannot say I disagre with you. The headline of the editorial was a bit stunning. And nobody had the courage to sign it.

    Not a big fan of the Chicago school of economic thought. What a surprise I am sure to you.

    But back to the acual editorial. The WSJ's focus was on the reign of Pinochet. Nothing is worth that. Noboby should be advocating that for Egypt.

    [/QUOTE]

    So, you completely discount the economic turnaround because of Pinochet?  The economic turnaround is a fact, and part of the record.  Can't simply ignore it.

     

     

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