We know executive and wall street can hurt jobs and the economy. Here's how Unions do their own damage!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    We know executive and wall street can hurt jobs and the economy. Here's how Unions do their own damage!

    Killing the goose that lays the golden egg is one of those old fairy tales for children which has a heavy message that a lot of adults should listen to. The labor unions which have driven the makers of Twinkies into bankruptcy, potentially destroying 18,500 jobs, could have learned a lot from that old children's fairy tale.

    Many people think of labor unions as organizations to benefit workers, and think of employers who are opposed to unions as just people who don't want to pay their employees more money. But some employers have made it a point to pay their employees more than the union wages, just to keep them from joining a union.

    Why would they do that, if it is just a question of not wanting to pay union wages? The Twinkies bankruptcy is a classic example of costs created by labor unions that are not confined to paychecks.

    The work rules imposed in union contracts required the company that makes Twinkies, which also makes Wonder Bread, to deliver these two products to stores in separate trucks. Moreover, truck drivers were not allowed to load either of these products into their trucks. And the people who did load Twinkies into trucks were not allowed to load Wonder Bread, and vice versa.

    All of this was obviously intended to create more jobs for the unions' members. But the needless additional costs that these make-work rules created ended up driving the company into bankruptcy, which can cost 18,500 jobs. The union is killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

    Not only are there reasons for employers to pay their workers enough to keep them from joining unions, there are reasons why workers in the private sector have increasingly voted against joining unions. They have seen unions driving jobs away to non-union competitors at home or driving them overseas, whether with costly work rules or in other ways.

    The old-time legendary labor leader John L. Lewis called so many strikes in the coal mines that many people switched to using oil instead, because they couldn't depend on coal deliveries. A professor of labor economics at the University of Chicago called John L. Lewis "the world's greatest oil salesman."

    There is no question that Lewis' United Mine Workers Union raised the pay and other benefits for coal miners. But the higher costs of producing coal not only led many consumers to switch to oil, these costs also led coal companies to substitute machinery for labor, reducing the number of miners.

    By the 1960s, many coal-mining towns were almost ghost towns. But few people connected the dots back to the glory years of John L. Lewis. The United Mine Workers Union did not kill the goose that laid the golden eggs, but it created a situation where fewer of those golden eggs reached the miners.

    It was much the same story in the automobile industry and the steel industry, where large pensions and costly work rules drove up the prices of finished products and drove down the number of jobs. There is a reason why there was a major decline in the proportion of private sector employees who joined unions. It was not just the number of union workers who ended up losing their jobs. Other workers saw the handwriting on the wall and refused to join unions.

    There is also a reason why labor unions are flourishing among people who work for government. No matter how much these public sector unions drive up costs, government agencies do not go out of business. They simply go back to the taxpayers for more money.

    Consumers in the private sector have the option of buying products and services from competing, non-union companies-- from Toyota instead of General Motors, for example, even though most Toyotas sold in America are made in America. Consumers of other products can buy things made in non-union factories overseas.

    But government agencies are monopolies. You cannot get your Social Security checks from anywhere except the Social Security Administration or your driver's license from anywhere but the DMV.

    Is it surprising that government employees have seen their pay go up, even during the downturn, and their pensions rise to levels undreamed of in the private sector? None of this will kill the goose that lays the golden egg, so long as there are both current taxpayers and future taxpayers to pay off debts passed on to them.

     

    http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2012/11/20/creators_oped

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: We know executive and wall street can hurt jobs and the economy. Here's how Unions do their own damage!

    More right-wing, anti-worker, elitist 1% pablum.

    But nothing about the company's long history of mismanagement, corruption and incompetence.

    Or the dramatic cuts in public sector jobs during the recession.

    Or the fact that coal, like oil, is an outdated, dangerous, filthy source of energy.

     

    Like twinkies, your cut-n-paste regurgitations are just empty calories....

     

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: We know executive and wall street can hurt jobs and the economy. Here's how Unions do their own damage!

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    More right-wing, anti-worker, elitist 1% pablum.

    But nothing about the company's long history of mismanagement, corruption and incompetence.

    Or the dramatic cuts in public sector jobs during the recession.

    Or the fact that coal, like oil, is an outdated, dangerous, filthy source of energy. 

    Like twinkies, your cut-n-paste regurgitations are just empty calories....

     [/QUOTE]


    If you cant see past liberal talking posts please feel free to ignore my posts!!!!!!

    If, you deny unions have hurt job creation (perhaps inadvertantly) through regulations that hurt productivty and in cases drive away a companies competetive edge then please go away.

    Its more than "ceo's bad, union guud" issues

     

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: We know executive and wall street can hurt jobs and the economy. Here's how Unions do their own damage!

    What is a "talking post"...? Is that like a sentient tree where 'stumps' like the OP get their silly ideas to borrow other peoples' articles as their own thoughts...?

    Unions don't hurt job creation.  Shipping jobs and profits overseas hurts job creation.  Monopolies hurt job creation.  Greedy CEOs and Hedge Funders hurt job creation.  Taking an attitude that 47% of Americans are "lazy" and want "gifts" hurts job creation.

    Back to your talking post....

     

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: We know executive and wall street can hurt jobs and the economy. Here's how Unions do their own damage!

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Christ.

    NO ONE is saying that your ever-amorphous "regulations" or "unions" never hurt job-creators' bottom line.

    What they are saying is that in the world's richest country, there should be some basic protections for workers. These come in the form of regulations, such as regulations requiring factories to be reasonably safe and to not have children working in them. Or in the form of laws protecting workers' ability to negotiate something rather than take whatever pennies the nice job creator wants to give them.

    If you think "regulations" and "unions" are all evil and unnecessary, you simply don't know any history.

    Which is sad. If more conservatives here knew their history, they'd say a lot less of the things they say.

    [/QUOTE]


    I didnt say Unions and regulations were all evil geez!!

    I am saying the rich fat cat ceo's you talk about being greedy and hurting business exist in unions as well!!

    They ARE union reps who are just as crooked and rich as some CEO's and dont really care about the workers or improving anything excet their control of power!!

    I admit ceo's and wall street executive hurt jobs and the economy but, it doesnt change the fact that unions have some crooked rich idiots in the game that are just as bad!!

    Compared to other industrialized countries the USA is leaps and bounds ahead in employee protections without unions!

    No company is going to start putting children in factories or using grandma as fuel; gezz dont be so dramatic when it's just a scare issue from the 70's!

    btw; dont call me Christ

     

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: We know executive and wall street can hurt jobs and the economy. Here's how Unions do their own damage!

    In response to tvoter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Christ.

    NO ONE is saying that your ever-amorphous "regulations" or "unions" never hurt job-creators' bottom line.

    What they are saying is that in the world's richest country, there should be some basic protections for workers. These come in the form of regulations, such as regulations requiring factories to be reasonably safe and to not have children working in them. Or in the form of laws protecting workers' ability to negotiate something rather than take whatever pennies the nice job creator wants to give them.

    If you think "regulations" and "unions" are all evil and unnecessary, you simply don't know any history.

    Which is sad. If more conservatives here knew their history, they'd say a lot less of the things they say.

    [/QUOTE]


    I didnt say Unions and regulations were all evil geez!!

    I am saying the rich fat cat ceo's you talk about being greedy and hurting business exist in unions as well!!

    They ARE union reps who are just as crooked and rich as some CEO's and dont really care about the workers or improving anything excet their control of power!!

    I admit ceo's and wall street executive hurt jobs and the economy but, it doesnt change the fact that unions have some crooked rich idiots in the game that are just as bad!!

    Compared to other industrialized countries the USA is leaps and bounds ahead in employee protections without unions!

    No company is going to start putting children in factories or using grandma as fuel; gezz dont be so dramatic when it's just a scare issue from the 70's!

    btw; dont call me Christ

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The socialist industrial countries of Europe have far greater protection of employees than anything we have in America.  You have a rant on this somewhere.  And the rant is true!  You must have forgotten.

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: We know executive and wall street can hurt jobs and the economy. Here's how Unions do their own damage!

    In response to 12-Angry-Men's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why is it that you never read a news story about the concessions and pay-cuts that CEO's and other executives are willing to forgo for the best interest and financial health of the company?

     

    I just don't get it with these whacko wingnuts.

    It's like a self-loathing writ large.

    They must really hate their lives and wish everyone to be as miserable as they are.

     

    They are so dang ignorant that they think that "a rising tide lifts all boats" only works for, and by, the captain in the bridge and only when he tells them it works.

    They fail to acknowledge a basic premise of business, that those at the tide level are the ones who are shifting the seas for everyone on those boats. The captain just rides the waves.

    Ya can't have a successful business without successful and loyal workers.

    A captain ain't getting very far without a crew.

    [/QUOTE]

    Nor does a crew get very far without a captain.  A captain is a servant to the objective at hand.

    Look, everyone is part of the economiy, executives, shareholders, workers, consumers.  Each can be part ofthe problem and /or part of the solution.  In our system, or howour system should be working, you succeed of fail based on your ability to meet the needs of your customers, ie. consumers.  Things like "too big to fail" , over leveraging unions, all have a negative impact.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: We know executive and wall street can hurt jobs and the economy. Here's how Unions do their own damage!

    In response to skeeter20's comment:


    Nor does a crew get very far without a captain.  A captain is a servant to the objective at hand.

    Look, everyone is part of the economiy, executives, shareholders, workers, consumers.  Each can be part ofthe problem and /or part of the solution.  In our system, or howour system should be working, you succeed of fail based on your ability to meet the needs of your customers, ie. consumers.  Things like "too big to fail" , over leveraging unions, all have a negative impact.

    [/QUOTE]


    Based on your ability to meet you customers needs while staying competitive with other providers is also critical to any business success

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: We know executive and wall street can hurt jobs and the economy. Here's how Unions do their own damage!

    In response to 12-Angry-Men's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yep, the only thing those 'job creators' need is some tax cuts and the economy will just start humming along.

    Of course some fvcking competence and modicum of business savy should probably be the first thing on their to-do list.

    But of course the whacko wingnuts will still keep their noses firmly tucked into the buttocks of these 'job creators'... right over the cliff... blaming everyone else for their incompetence.

    Hmmmm, I wonder what the 'penalty' is these days for such a massive fcuk-up?

    Probably a raise or maybe a retroactive retirement with a golden parachute....

     

    Hewlett-Packard Co. (HPQ)'s $8.8 billion write down tied to the purchase of software maker Autonomy Corp. is fueling concern that Chief Executive Officer Meg Whitman and her board aren't up to the task of engineering a turnaround.

    Whitman joined Chairman Ray Lane and other directors in unanimously supporting the deal pushed by then-CEO Leo Apotheker in August 2011. It then took Hewlett-Packard 15 months to go public with allegations of accounting improprieties, saying a probe began after an Autonomy executive came forward in May.

    The allegations about Autonomy come just three months after Hewlett-Packard announced an $8 billion writedown related to an earlier acquisition, and it follows years of strategy shifts and management missteps that Whitman has yet to rectify.


    The Autonomy charge is the latest blow for leadership at a company that has suffered through years of botched deals, management tumult and strategic missteps. Hewlett-Packard has plunged 75 percent since it ousted CEO Mark Hurd in August 2010 and it has a market value one-tenth the size of International Business Machines Corp. and one-sixth Oracle Corp. (ORCL)'s.

    "They have been a model of incompetence for the past several years," said Michael Cusumano, a professor at Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Sloan School of Management. "It reflects a broader lack of attention and competence in HP's management and board."
     

    [/QUOTE]


    Ms. Whitman was on Marketplace yesterday refusing to take any responsibility for this horrendous mistake and trying to argue that everything at HP is peachy.

    She received about $16.5 million in stock options from HP in lieu of a yearly salary.

    And now HP might just be the 'Hostess of the tech world'. 

     

     
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