We torture another one to death.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    We torture another one to death.

    FLORENCE, Ariz. (AP) — A condemned Arizona inmate gasped and snorted for more than an hour and a half during his execution Wednesday before he died in an episode sure to add to the scrutiny surrounding the death penalty in the U.S.


    Arizona Attorney General Tom Horne’s office said Joseph Rudolph Wood was pronounced dead at 3:49 p.m., one hour and 57 minutes after the execution started.


    Wood’s lawyers had filed an emergency appeal with the U.S. Supreme Court while the execution was underway, demanding that it be stopped. The appeal said Wood was ‘‘gasping and snorting for more than an hour.’’


    Word that Justice Anthony Kennedy denied the appeal came about a half hour after Wood’s death.


    An Associated Press reporter who witnessed the execution saw Wood start gasping shortly after a sedative and a pain killer were injected into his veins. He gasped more than 600 times over the next hour and 40 minutes.


    An administrator checked on Wood a half dozen times. His breathing slowed as a deacon said a prayer while holding a rosary. The 55-year-old finally stopped breathing and was pronounced dead 12 minutes later.


    Defense lawyer Dale Baich called it a botched execution that should have taken 10 minutes.


    ‘‘Arizona appears to have joined several other states who have been responsible for an entirely preventable horror — a bungled execution,’’ Baich said. ‘‘The public should hold its officials responsible and demand to make this process more transparent.’’


    Family members of Wood’s victims said they had no problems with the way the execution was carried out.


    ‘‘This man conducted a horrific murder and you guys are going, let’s worry about the drugs,’’ said Richard Brown, the brother-in-law of Debbie Dietz, who was 29 when she was killed in 1989. ‘‘Why didn’t they give him a bullet, why didn’t we give him Drano?’’


    Wood looked at the family members as he delivered his final words, saying he was thankful for Jesus Christ as his savior. At one point, he smiled at them, which angered the family.


    ‘‘I take comfort knowing today my pain stops, and I said a prayer that on this or any other day you may find peace in all of your hearts and may God forgive you all,’’ Wood said.


    The case has highlighted scrutiny surrounding lethal injections after two controversial ones. An Ohio inmate executed in January snorted and gasped during the 26 minutes it took him to die. In Oklahoma, an inmate died of a heart attack in April, minutes after prison officials halted his execution because the drugs weren’t being administered properly.


    Arizona uses the same drugs — the sedative midazolam and painkiller hydromorphone — that were used in the Ohio execution. A different drug combination was used in the Oklahoma case.


    ‘‘States have been scrambling over the past many months to find new sources of drugs. They have been experimenting,’’ said Megan McCracken, of the University of California, Berkeley, School of Law’s Death Penalty Clinic. ‘‘These procedures are unreliable and the consequences are horrific.’’


    States have refused to reveal details such as which pharmacies are supplying lethal injection drugs and who is administering them, because of concerns over harassment.


    Woods filed several appeals that were denied by the U.S. Supreme Court, including one that said his First Amendment rights were violated when the state refused to reveal such details.


    Wood argued he and the public have a right to know details about the state’s method for lethal injections, the qualifications of the executioner and who makes the drugs. Such demands for greater transparency have become a new legal tactic in death penalty cases.


    The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals had put the execution on hold, saying the state must reveal the information. But the Supreme Court has not been receptive to the tactic, ruling against death penalty lawyers on the argument each time it has been before justices.


    Deborah Denno, professor of criminal law and criminal procedure at Fordham Law School, said it may be up to Legislatures or the public to bring any change.


    ‘‘I think every time one of these botches happens, it leads to questioning the death penalty even more,’’ she said. ‘‘It will reach a point where the public will question the value of these execution procedures generally, and perhaps the death penalty itself.’’


    Wood’s execution was Arizona’s third since October and the state’s 36th since 1992.


    He was convicted of fatally shooting Dietz and her father, 55-year-old Gene Dietz, at their auto repair shop in Tucson.


    Wood and Debbie Dietz had a tumultuous relationship during which he repeatedly assaulted her. She tried to end their relationship and got an order of protection against Wood.


    On the day of the shooting, Wood went to the auto shop and waited for Gene Dietz, who disapproved of his daughter’s relationship with Wood, to get off the phone. Once the father hung up, Wood pulled out a revolver, shot him in the chest and then smiled.


    Wood then turned his attention toward Debbie Dietz, who was trying to telephone for help. Wood grabbed her by the neck and put his gun to her chest. She pleaded with him to spare her life. An employee heard Wood say, ‘‘I told you I was going to do it. I have to kill you.’’ He then called her an expletive and fired two shots in her chest.


    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/2014/07/23/first-amendment-fight-won-stop-arizona-execution/7LmtTYam1gm32o53XN1W9K/story.html?p1=Topopage:Test_B:sub_headline_4


     


     


     


     


    The government should not have the power to torture people to death.


    I would have hoped the courts fulfilled their constitutional role and placed all these executions on hold. Governments are just guessing. Just throwing a mixture of drugs together and shrugging if it doesn't work. Even at the time of the founding, torture was considered cruel and unusual. Even a botched hanging, which was common, takes a few minutes. Awful as it would be to experience, it's not two hours.


    The entire point of being a civilized enlightened nation is to rise above the evil you punish and prevent. Not mete out eye for an eye because someone had it coming.


    The executive in revenge-killing states isn't going to lift a finger. Which leaves, what, the legislature? They don't do anything unless the public makes noises. But then, so much of the public shrugs because they think the person deserved it in their personal grand moral scheme.


     


     


     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from sprague1953. Show sprague1953's posts

    Re: We torture another one to death.

    I absolutely agree with NWDYW that the government should not have the right to torture people. No matter which side you are on the death penalty, hopefully you agree with this.

    These botched executions are the result of the shortage of one key lethal injection drug. Sodium thiopental.

    Last month, Hospira—the sole U.S. company approved to manufacture the drug—announced it will no longer produce sodium thiopental.

    A nationwide shortage of sodium thiopental, an anesthetic that is part of the three-drug cocktail used in lethal injections, has thrown capital punishment in the United States into disarray, delaying executions and forcing the change of execution protocols in several states.

    Until the problem caused by the massive shortage of sodium thiopental is properly solved, IMO I believe all executions should be put on hold so we do not have any more situations such as Arizona, Ohio or Oklahoma.

     

     

     

     

    Lethal Injection Drug Shortage
    By Jennifer Horne CSG Associate Director of Policy and Special Libraries


    Texas has 317 inmates on death row, but only enough of a key lethal injection drug to execute two of them.

    Ohio has just one dose of the drug left.


    A nationwide shortage of sodium thiopental, an anesthetic that is part of the three-drug cocktail used in lethal injections, has thrown capital punishment in the United States into disarray, delaying executions and forcing the change of execution protocols in several states.


    Last month, Hospira—the sole U.S. company approved to manufacture the drug—announced it will no longer produce sodium thiopental. This move followed a global campaign by death penalty opponents and pressure by Italian government officials after the company sought to shift production of the drug to an Italian plant.
    The shortage of sodium thiopental has forced the 35 states using lethal injection to scramble for any remaining stock and to explore alternatives.


    “Many states will have to change their method of execution, which means regulatory changes that have to be approved and lengthy court challenges,” says Richard Dieter, executive director of the Death Penalty Information Center. “In many states, this could take months, if not years, delaying executions.”


    Some states—including California, Arizona and Nebraska—were able to obtain the drug from suppliers in England and India. The British government has since banned such shipments. A class-action lawsuit against the Food and Drug Administration’s decision to allow the importation of the drug into the country without adequate inspection or quality checks is pending. Death penalty opponents have raised questions about the quality of the drugs, arguing that if the drugs were expired or otherwise failed to work effectively, inmates could suffer significant pain, violating the ban on cruel and unusual punishment.


    Whether executions will have to be delayed depends largely on the ability of states to make changes to their lethal injection protocols without legislative or regulatory changes.


    In some states, switching to a new drug protocol is easily done. For an execution in December, Oklahoma replaced sodium thiopental with pentobarbital, a drug commonly used to euthanize animals. It is believed to be the first time the drug was used in a lethal injection. Ohio plans to do away the three-drug cocktail altogether..Beginning in March, the state will use a single dose of pentobarbital, becoming the first state to use the drug alone. This protocol is untested and many states are watching Ohio before changing their own protocols.


    Tennessee is considering such a drug switch, which would not take long for the state to implement. Dorinda Carter, spokeswoman for the Tennessee Department of Correction, said such a change does not require new legislation and could be done after a departmental review.
    However, other states have long regulatory and review processes. In Maryland, for instance, the current protocol under review has been withdrawn because changes will be so substantial that the rules will have to be completely revised.


    “Our current proposed regulations have been withdrawn, so the process for writing new proposed regulations starts again. There is no set timetable for that process," said Rick Binetti, a spokesman for the state Department of Public Safety and Correctional Services,
    Dieter explained that many other states face a lengthy regulatory process, including California and Kentucky. In addition, any change in the drug or its supplier will likely lead to lawsuits from inmates facing execution.

    Dieter said he expects there will be legal challenges in almost every state currently using sodium thiopental.
    “Lawyers will challenge the use of new drug protocols or drugs that are imported from overseas,” he said “Either way, there is enough of a change to warrant a challenge.”
    In the meantime, states continue to seek additional sources of sodium thiopental. On Jan. 25, 13 states asked the U.S. Department of Justice for help in identifying sources for the scarce drug or by making federal supplies available to states.

     

    http://www.csg.org/pubs/capitolideas/enews/issue65_4.aspx

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansoribrother. Show Hansoribrother's posts

    Re: We torture another one to death.

    They should either get the drug protocol right or use a firing squad. 

    In the meantime a claim of torture? How do you know?

    tor·ture
    ˈtôrCHər/Submit
    noun
    1.
    the action or practice of inflicting severe pain on someone as a punishment or to force them to do or say something, or for the pleasure of the person inflicting the pain.
    synonyms: infliction of pain, abuse, ill-treatment, maltreatment, persecution; More
    great physical or mental suffering or anxiety.
    "the torture I've gone through because of loving you so"
    synonyms: torment, agony, suffering, pain, anguish, misery, distress, heartbreak, affliction, scourge, trauma, wretchedness; More
    a cause of suffering or anxiety.
    plural noun: tortures
    "dances were absolute torture because I was so small"
    verb
    verb: torture; 3rd person present: tortures; past tense: tortured; past participle: tortured; gerund or present participle: torturing
    1.
    inflict severe pain on.
    "most of the victims had been brutally tortured"
    synonyms: inflict pain on, ill-treat, abuse, mistreat, maltreat, persecute

     

    Just because he was gasping for air does not mean he was conscious or in pain. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: We torture another one to death.

    anybody ever see the movie " No Escape" ..... that is the answer ... put all the violent criminals on an island and let them fend for themselves .

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: We torture another one to death.


    Death penalty opponents point to the interminable delays before the death penalty is implemented. Very valid point. However, the decades-long delays are caused by death penalty opponents, throwing up endless roadblocks and endless appeals.

    Death penalty opponents point to the problems with obtaining the drugs needed for executions, resulting in botched executions. Very valid point, it is wrong to have an execution take two hours.

    But again, the reason is death penalty opponents, intimidating drug companies, filing lawsuits, etc.

    Instead of convincing the public of the validity of their position, death penalty opponents gum up the system making executions virtually impossible. 

    And they have succeeded. The public supports the death penalty, but dont seem to care that the system is broken, few are executed and it takes endless millions of dollars in appeals and decades to implement... 

    As a society, we are better off not having the death penalty,than the current joke of a system...

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansoribrother. Show Hansoribrother's posts

    Re: We torture another one to death.

    Doesn't the Constitution require a quick and speedy trial? That isn't just for the defendant. It is for the public and for justice. 25 years between the original sentence and execution of the sentence is not very speedy.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: We torture another one to death.

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:


    Doesn't the Constitution require a quick and speedy trial? That isn't just for the defendant. It is for the public and for justice. 25 years between the original sentence and execution of the sentence is not very speedy.




    1. The Constitution provides for the right to a speedy trial. The right must be asserted by the defendant.


    1a. That right applies between arrest on complaint or indictment and date of trial.


    2. The constitution provides for the right of direct appeal, for petition for certiorari, for petition for habeas corpus., and for emergency writs filed originally in the Supreme Court.


    3. The fundamental right of due process does not allow for a courts to tear up filings without reading them based on an arbitrary and capricious personal feeling that a prisoner should have been executed already.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: We torture another one to death.

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:


    Just because he was gasping for air does not mean he was conscious or in pain. 




    He gasped and snorted the whole time. This was under the influence of a powerful anti-convulsant/muscle relaxant/etc.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midazolam" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midazolam


    Prisoner Clayton Lockett - another botched execution - woke up and started talking after being injected with it (and two other different drugs) before dying 40 minutes later from a heart attack.


     


     


    I think it would be rather perverse to shrug because we can't ask him to find out whether signs of pain in fact reflected pain. Especially when it sounds rather likely that he was conscious.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from sprague1953. Show sprague1953's posts

    Re: We torture another one to death.

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:

    anybody ever see the movie " No Escape" ..... that is the answer ... put all the violent criminals on an island and let them fend for themselves .



    Sister,

    We do not have to see a movie.

    Britain already did that when they turned Australia into a penal colony.

    And are there not two major points of imprisoning human beings. Punishment AND rehabilitation.

    Where is the rehabilitation in "No Escape"?

    Most people who go to prison do come out one day. Just punishment is not the answer. These people will be walking your and my streets at some point. Without continued attempts at rehabilitation, who do you think they are going to take it out on? 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from sprague1953. Show sprague1953's posts

    Re: We torture another one to death.

    We are the ONLY first world country...the ONLY...that still allows the death penalty.

    At the very least we should be sure when the government is putting a human being to death, there are no more botched executions as we have recently had in Ohio, Oklahoma and now in Arizona.

    These people are not going anywhere. We need to wait until a new protocol can be developed that is as effective and humane as the former protocol.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: We torture another one to death.

    In response to sprague1953's comment:

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:

    anybody ever see the movie " No Escape" ..... that is the answer ... put all the violent criminals on an island and let them fend for themselves .



    Sister,

    We do not have to see a movie.

    Britain already did that when they turned Australia into a penal colony.

    And are there not two major points of imprisoning human beings. Punishment AND rehabilitation.

    Where is the rehabilitation in "No Escape"?

    Most people who go to prison do come out one day. Just punishment is not the answer. These people will be walking your and my streets at some point. Without continued attempts at rehabilitation, who do you think they are going to take it out on? 




    I'll meet you halfway because that is the kind of guy that I am ..... habitual violent criminals

    "fool me once shame on you , fool me twice same on me " - unknown

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from sprague1953. Show sprague1953's posts

    Re: We torture another one to death.

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:

    In response to sprague1953's comment:

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:

    anybody ever see the movie " No Escape" ..... that is the answer ... put all the violent criminals on an island and let them fend for themselves .



    Sister,

    We do not have to see a movie.

    Britain already did that when they turned Australia into a penal colony.

    And are there not two major points of imprisoning human beings. Punishment AND rehabilitation.

    Where is the rehabilitation in "No Escape"?

    Most people who go to prison do come out one day. Just punishment is not the answer. These people will be walking your and my streets at some point. Without continued attempts at rehabilitation, who do you think they are going to take it out on? 




    I'll meet you halfway because that is the kind of guy that I am ..... habitual violent criminals

    "fool me once shame on you , fool me twice same on me " - unknown



    Sister,

    At least we are getting closer. 

    Btw, I helped get one of your posts restored.

    "I love how people gloat about millions of people losing healthcare coverage .

     

    "The idea that some lives matter less is the root of all that is wrong with the world" .... Dr Paul Farmer"

    The above post had been removed from the federal courts deal blow to Obamacare thread.

    I reported it to that new Moderator thread. MM restored it. It obviously did not violate BDC posting policy.

    You can read what MM said in his/her thread. It looks like this is off to a pretty nice start. MM also wrote some other things which I guess are going to be part of the "transition". They sound pretty good.

    If I am reading MM right, the outside moderating company is on its way out of this forum, and more BDC staff members are coming in. So not like the Sox forum, where the posters run the show, but much better then now.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: We torture another one to death.

    In response to sprague1953's comment:


    In response to Sistersledge's comment:


    In response to sprague1953's comment:


    In response to Sistersledge's comment:


    anybody ever see the movie " No Escape" ..... that is the answer ... put all the violent criminals on an island and let them fend for themselves .




    Sister,


    We do not have to see a movie.


    Britain already did that when they turned Australia into a penal colony.


    And are there not two major points of imprisoning human beings. Punishment AND rehabilitation.


    Where is the rehabilitation in "No Escape"?


    Most people who go to prison do come out one day. Just punishment is not the answer. These people will be walking your and my streets at some point. Without continued attempts at rehabilitation, who do you think they are going to take it out on? 





    I'll meet you halfway because that is the kind of guy that I am ..... habitual violent criminals


    "fool me once shame on you , fool me twice same on me " - unknown




    Sister,


    At least we are getting closer. 


    Btw, I helped get one of your posts restored.


    "I love how people gloat about millions of people losing healthcare coverage .


     


    "The idea that some lives matter less is the root of all that is wrong with the world" .... Dr Paul Farmer"


    The above post had been removed from the federal courts deal blow to Obamacare thread.


    I reported it to that new Moderator thread. MM restored it. It obviously did not violate BDC posting policy.


    You can read what MM said in his/her thread. It looks like this is off to a pretty nice start. MM also wrote some other things which I guess are going to be part of the "transition". They sound pretty good.


    If I am reading MM right, the outside moderating company is on its way out of this forum, and more BDC staff members are coming in. So not like the Sox forum, where the posters run the show, but much better then now.





    Thanks sprague 1953 .....


     


    btw I love using sarcasm to make a point

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from sprague1953. Show sprague1953's posts

    Re: We torture another one to death.

    Sister,

    It was a great post. Both what you said and the quote you used. Probably more effective then a lot of the longer posts in that thread...including mine.

    I had replied to it to tell you so, so I had captured your post word for word and therefore was able to report it word for word to MM.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: We torture another one to death.

    In response to sprague1953's comment:

    We are the ONLY first world country...the ONLY...that still allows the death penalty.

    At the very least we should be sure when the government is putting a human being to death, there are no more botched executions as we have recently had in Ohio, Oklahoma and now in Arizona.

    These people are not going anywhere. We need to wait until a new protocol can be developed that is as effective and humane as the former protocol.




    Well said!!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: We torture another one to death.

    They should use the guillotine.  It's quick.  It's reliable.  I'd rather have my head taken in a split second than to die over a 2 hour span.  Plus it's gruesome.  If we are going to execute people, it should be shocking.  

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: We torture another one to death.

    On the day of the shooting, Wood went to the auto shop and waited for Gene Dietz, who disapproved of his daughter's relationship with Wood, to get off the phone. Once the father hung up, Wood pulled out a revolver, shot him in the chest and then smiled.

    Wood then turned his attention toward Debbie Dietz, who was trying to telephone for help. Wood grabbed her by the neck and put his gun to her chest. She pleaded with him to spare her life. An employee heard Wood say, "I told you I was going to do it. I have to kill you." He then called her an expletive and fired two shots in her chest.

     

    yeah...can't say I'm too upset. Yeah, yeah, I get we aren't supposed to torture those the govt is trying to kill. I don't believe their intention was to torture...unless you know-it-alls know something everyone else doesn't. I get it's not what the govt should be doing, I also get this isn't what the govt sets out to do. That all being said...I wonder how much Debbie Dietz suffered seeing her dad die at the hands of this scum? I wonder how much she suffered seeing the gun turned on her knowing what her fate was? I wonder how much the family members of Gene and Debbie have suffered?

     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName9. Show UserName9's posts

    Re: We torture another one to death.

    In response to sprague1953's comment:

    We are the ONLY first world country...the ONLY...that still allows the death penalty.

    At the very least we should be sure when the government is putting a human being to death, there are no more botched executions as we have recently had in Ohio, Oklahoma and now in Arizona.

    These people are not going anywhere. We need to wait until a new protocol can be developed that is as effective and humane as the former protocol.




    Japan still kills its own citizens too.  But your point is valid.....we are not in good company when you look at the list of countries with the death penalty.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: We torture another one to death.

    In response to UserName9's comment:

    In response to sprague1953's comment:

    We are the ONLY first world country...the ONLY...that still allows the death penalty.

    At the very least we should be sure when the government is putting a human being to death, there are no more botched executions as we have recently had in Ohio, Oklahoma and now in Arizona.

    These people are not going anywhere. We need to wait until a new protocol can be developed that is as effective and humane as the former protocol.




    Japan still kills its own citizens too.  But your point is valid.....we are not in good company when you look at the list of countries with the death penalty.



    Given the history of s h i t this country has been involved in we've already not been in good company...for a long time. Let's not try to pretend otherwise

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: We torture another one to death.

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    yeah...can't say I'm too upset. Yeah, yeah, I get we aren't supposed to torture those the govt is trying to kill. I don't believe their intention was to torture...unless you know-it-alls know something everyone else doesn't. I get it's not what the govt should be doing, I also get this isn't what the govt sets out to do.

     

    Then it is an area of ongoing disagreement. It seems inconsistent to say government shouldn't be able to do this, but also, so what because of what the guy did. If the focus is on what the government did wrong, it is irrelevant what the prisoner did wrong.

    As for intent....   the states doing this have fought to keep the formulas secret, they have ignored doctors' advice, and are in fact outright experimenting.

    To say they lacked intent...well....I see that like saying that Bob lacked intent to kill when he walked down the street blindfolded firing off a handgun. Sure, maybe he didn't specifically intend to kill someone, but he sure made a point of not caring about a very likely consequence of his actions....

     

     

    That all being said...I wonder how much Debbie Dietz suffered seeing her dad die at the hands of this scum? I wonder how much she suffered seeing the gun turned on her knowing what her fate was? I wonder how much the family members of Gene and Debbie have suffered?

    They probably suffered a great deal, but to me, that's an entirely different consideration that just doesn't apply here.

    He got the most severe penalty we have. We should take care that it is done properly, if we have even the slightest desire of considering ourselves more civilized than the people we punish.

    Eye for an eye belongs in history.




     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: We torture another one to death.

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    yeah...can't say I'm too upset. Yeah, yeah, I get we aren't supposed to torture those the govt is trying to kill. I don't believe their intention was to torture...unless you know-it-alls know something everyone else doesn't. I get it's not what the govt should be doing, I also get this isn't what the govt sets out to do.

     

    Then it is an area of ongoing disagreement. It seems inconsistent to say government shouldn't be able to do this, but also, so what because of what the guy did. If the focus is on what the government did wrong, it is irrelevant what the prisoner did wrong.

    As for intent....   the states doing this have fought to keep the formulas secret, they have ignored doctors' advice, and are in fact outright experimenting.

    To say they lacked intent...well....I see that like saying that Bob lacked intent to kill when he walked down the street blindfolded firing off a handgun. Sure, maybe he didn't specifically intend to kill someone, but he sure made a point of not caring about a very likely consequence of his actions....

     

     

    That all being said...I wonder how much Debbie Dietz suffered seeing her dad die at the hands of this scum? I wonder how much she suffered seeing the gun turned on her knowing what her fate was? I wonder how much the family members of Gene and Debbie have suffered?

    They probably suffered a great deal, but to me, that's an entirely different consideration that just doesn't apply here.

    He got the most severe penalty we have. We should take care that it is done properly, if we have even the slightest desire of considering ourselves more civilized than the people we punish.

    Eye for an eye belongs in history.






    Agree to disagree

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: We torture another one to death.

    I'm telling you - the guillotine.  Sure, at first it sounds ghoulish.  But is there anything faster or less painful?  Set it up so the they condemned never see it.  Give them a sedative.  strap them face down.  And swoosh - its over.  They never see it.  Sure, it's messy, which taking a person's life should be messy.  But for the condemned, it really is the quickest way to go.  It's faster than hanging.  Better than a firing squad, which could miss the heart.  Set it up so that at the appointed time, the blade comes down.

    If we are going to sentence people to death, the actual act should be disturbing.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: We torture another one to death.

    In response to DirtyWaterLover's comment:


    I'm telling you - the guillotine.  Sure, at first it sounds ghoulish.  But is there anything faster or less painful?  Set it up so the they condemned never see it.  Give them a sedative.  strap them face down.  And swoosh - its over.  They never see it.  Sure, it's messy, which taking a person's life should be messy.  But for the condemned, it really is the quickest way to go.  It's faster than hanging.  Better than a firing squad, which could miss the heart.  Set it up so that at the appointed time, the blade comes down.


    If we are going to sentence people to death, the actual act should be disturbing.





    Agree fully.


    Guillotine or double-barreled shotgun blast to the back of the head.


    I don't think anyone who supports the death penalty has any business getting squeamish about it.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: We torture another one to death.

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:

    In response to DirtyWaterLover's comment:

     

     

    I'm telling you - the guillotine.  Sure, at first it sounds ghoulish.  But is there anything faster or less painful?  Set it up so the they condemned never see it.  Give them a sedative.  strap them face down.  And swoosh - its over.  They never see it.  Sure, it's messy, which taking a person's life should be messy.  But for the condemned, it really is the quickest way to go.  It's faster than hanging.  Better than a firing squad, which could miss the heart.  Set it up so that at the appointed time, the blade comes down.

     

    If we are going to sentence people to death, the actual act should be disturbing.

     

     




    Agree fully.

     

     

    Guillotine or double-barreled shotgun blast to the back of the head.

     

    I don't think anyone who supports the death penalty has any business getting squeamish about it.




    Agree!!

     
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