What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from scauma82. Show scauma82's posts

    What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?

    the entire piece can be found here:

    http://www.historynet.com/whats-wrong-with-american-healthcare.htm

    but a few highlights:

    Q. Is government involvement in health care un-American?

    A. There is a long American tradition of public responsibility for health. In the 19th century, for instance, states devoted as much as 30 percent of their budgets to public mental health care. And when it became clear that vaccination actually worked against smallpox, state after state created labs to provide vaccines free of charge to citizens. So to say it’s un-American is profoundly wrongheaded.

    You sound like an anti-doctor muckraker.

    I’m not. I believe most physicians are caring professionals. But because of the way our health-care system evolved, bad doctors are rarely held accountable for their mistakes. Under 5 percent of doctors account for roughly a third of malpractice suits, yet the system lets them keep their licenses.

    What about early efforts to provide national insurance?

    In 1915 and 1916, bills were introduced into Congress that would have produced a structure similar to those in place today throughout Western Europe. Initially the AMA—the American Medical Association—was all for it. After all, doctors had been accustomed to collecting only 50 percent of their bills, so 100 percent looked like a good deal. National insurance seemed inevitable. But the AMA soon began to shift its position.

    What resulted?

    Doctors’ incomes and medical costs continued to rise steadily in the 1920s. In 1932 the Committee on the Costs of Medical Care, a national blue ribbon panel that included the AMA, again recommended a national insurance program. But a committee minority said that would destroy the medical profession. The AMA claimed this minority represented the majority of physicians—although no one could ever calculate whether that was true—and killed that initiative too.

    What about Medicare and Medicaid?

    The AMA initially fought the proposals, calling them a government takeover. But this time—in the progressive 1960s—they lost. Ironically, they realized, “Wow, were we ever wrong! Now we have this government spigot of money pouring into the largely unregulated world we created in the 19th century.” That’s where the real acceleration of medical costs started.

    Can the free market fix the system?

    No. Health is not a free market commodity, a good you can choose, like a car. People are willing to spend everything they have and whatever they can borrow for health.

    Would a public plan lead to rationing care?

    We ration it already, on an ability-to-pay basis. Yet we also pay for those who can’t, in subtle and indirect ways like soaring emergency room expenses charged to taxpayers, and a less healthy and productive citizenry overall. We need to adjust this malfunctioning distribution system to make our health-care dollars go much farther.

    How do we fix it?

    Doctors have a vested interest in you getting sick. They are paid to get you better—and generally the more that costs the more they make. We need to change that incentive. If doctors were salaried—and we can afford handsome salaries—to maintain people’s health in the most effective, not most expensive, manner, we would have a far better structure. Around the country there are plenty of small practices and some big ones that do that and work very well indeed.

     
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    Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?

    i'd encourage you all to read the entire piece. the one argument i would have is that any 'salary' granted to doctor's would have to be fair, or we'd run the risk of turning them into a bunch of underpaid, under-enthused teachers.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?

    Is this what you meant when you said "we can all cherry pick stories"? : )
     
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    Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?

    I love when people step up and want to limit everyone's salaries EXCEPT THEIR OWN! If you put a limit on Dr. salaries, you MUST put a limit on athletes salaries, politicians salaries, CEO's, police, fire, yours, mine etc etc.

    Let's say the number is $150K per year. Since without Dr's a hospital goes out of business, why should the CEO make $600K? Why should the CFO make $400K? etc. etc. It becomes a slippery slope. If a CEO can make $1M at a private company why would he want to be CEO of a hospital? If you reach into the private company where does it stop?

    BTW, many PCP's would LOVE $150K and many specialists would retire instead of accept that salary.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?

    In Response to Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?:
    [QUOTE]I love when people step up and want to limit everyone's salaries EXCEPT THEIR OWN! If you put a limit on Dr. salaries, you MUST put a limit on athletes salaries, politicians salaries, CEO's, police, fire, yours, mine etc etc. Let's say the number is $150K per year. Since without Dr's a hospital goes out of business, why should the CEO make $600K? Why should the CFO make $400K? etc. etc. It becomes a slippery slope. If a CEO can make $1M at a private company why would he want to be CEO of a hospital? If you reach into the private company where does it stop? BTW, many PCP's would LOVE $150K and many specialists would retire instead of accept that salary.
    Posted by brat13[/QUOTE]

    Don't you get it....it's ok to make as much money as you can....well unless you're a doctor. Or a CEO. Or an oil company. Or a hospital. Or a weapons manufacturer.
    THOSE people/industires should be capped. But everyone else is free to make as much profit as possible...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobinVa. Show BobinVa's posts

    Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?

    In Response to What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?:
     Q. Is government involvement in health care un-American?
    A.Yes. There is a long American tradition of free enterprise, and limited government. The wealthiest and most successful economy in human history was built on foundations of individual liberty and limited government. For hundreds of years, immigrants fled government oppression for freedom in America. The idea to confiscate 1/6 of the private economy and have it run by government bureacrats runs counter to every American ideal the country was founded upon.
    The basis of the US Constitution is limited governmental power. Where in the Constitution does it give power to the federal government to take over health care?  
    Socialism, besides being unAmerican,  has failed everywhere it has been tried. It only succeeds in giving power to bureaucrats.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobinVa. Show BobinVa's posts

    Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?

    "Can the free market fix the system?

    No. Health is not a free market commodity, a good you can choose, like a car. People are willing to spend everything they have and whatever they can borrow for health."

    Glad this writer freely admits he is a socialist.  The "free market"  is freedom. Socialism wont fix "the system", it will destroy it, deliberately, and substitute government dictate.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobinVa. Show BobinVa's posts

    Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?

    In Response to Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?:
    i'd encourage you all to read the entire piece. the one argument i would have is that any 'salary' granted to doctor's would have to be fair, or we'd run the risk of turning them into a bunch of underpaid, under-enthused teachers.
    Posted by scauma82

    What the hell is "fair"?
    All government workers are "underenthused", because they arent treated as individuals, but drones. They are not rewarded for hard work and success.  They can't be promoted and can't be fired.
    The government-paid drone physicians will see hundreds of patients a day, and the patients will be numbers to them, not people.  
    This is what you want your physician to be like?  A postal worker?
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from 7x4. Show 7x4's posts

    Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?

    Got a good friend in the hospital right now with no health ins. Been there for 12 days. Has numerous complicated issues.
     
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    Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?

    In Response to Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?:
    Is this what you meant when you said "we can all cherry pick stories"? : )
    Posted by hawkeye01


    good try. this isn't a specific, 'a person died b/c no gov't run hospital would take them' story, but a history of healthcare in this country.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from scauma82. Show scauma82's posts

    Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?

    In Response to Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?:
    [QUOTE]I love when people step up and want to limit everyone's salaries EXCEPT THEIR OWN! If you put a limit on Dr. salaries, you MUST put a limit on athletes salaries, politicians salaries, CEO's, police, fire, yours, mine etc etc. Let's say the number is $150K per year. Since without Dr's a hospital goes out of business, why should the CEO make $600K? Why should the CFO make $400K? etc. etc. It becomes a slippery slope. If a CEO can make $1M at a private company why would he want to be CEO of a hospital? If you reach into the private company where does it stop? BTW, many PCP's would LOVE $150K and many specialists would retire instead of accept that salary.
    Posted by brat13[/QUOTE]

    the salary piece was in the story, and i thought i was actually defending the anti-salary piece.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from scauma82. Show scauma82's posts

    Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?

    In Response to Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?:
    In Response to Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare? : Don't you get it....it's ok to make as much money as you can....well unless you're a doctor. Or a CEO. Or an oil company. Or a hospital. Or a weapons manufacturer. THOSE people/industires should be capped. But everyone else is free to make as much profit as possible...
    Posted by hawkeye01


    totally missed the point
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from scauma82. Show scauma82's posts

    Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?

    now i get why these boards are a laughing stock. seriously, you totally miss the point, and then defend your points with more non sense. there's nothing 'socialist' about this.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?

    In Response to Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?:
    In Response to Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare? : good try. this isn't a specific, 'a person died b/c no gov't run hospital would take them' story, but a history of healthcare in this country.
    Posted by scauma82


    Except that it's more an opinion piece than a historical piece.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?

    In Response to Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?:
    In Response to Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare? : totally missed the point
    Posted by scauma82


    No I got the point of that one piece. Articles can be dissected and taken point by point.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from brat13. Show brat13's posts

    Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?

    In Response to Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?:
    In Response to Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare? : the salary piece was in the story, and i thought i was actually defending the anti-salary piece.
    Posted by scauma82


    I know where it was. I read it. I simply was responding to that part of the story. If I thought you said it I would have started my post with.. "Scauma I love how you..."
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ohhhhh-Bammy. Show Ohhhhh-Bammy's posts

    Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?

     

    This article is from the "Investor's Business Daily."  It provides some very interesting statistics from a survey by the United Nations International Health Organization.

    Percentage of men and women who survived a cancer five years after diagnosis:

    U.S.            65%

    England       46%

    Canada        42%

     

    Percentage of patients diagnosed with diabetes who received treatment within six months:

    U.S.            93%

    England       15%

    Canada        43%

    Percentage of seniors needing hip replacement who received it within six months:

    U.S.            90%

    England       15%

    Canada        43%

     

    Percentage referred to a medical specialist who see one within one month:

    U.S.            77%

    England       40%

    Canada        43%

     

    Number of MRI scanners (a prime diagnostic tool) per million people:

    U.S.            71

    England       14

    Canada        18

     

    Percentage of seniors (65+), with low income, who say they are in "excellent health":

    U.S.            12%

    England       2%

    Canada        6%

     

    I don't know about you, but I don't want "Universal Healthcare" comparable to England or Canada .

     

    Moreover, it was Sen. Harry Reid who said, "Elderly Americans must learn to accept the inconveniences of old age." 

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobinVa. Show BobinVa's posts

    Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?

    "In the 19th century, for instance, states devoted as much as 30 percent of their budgets to public mental health care."

    This statement supports your cause?

    "Public mental health care" in the 19th Century consisted of warehousing the mentally ill, mostly putting them in chains....

    No doubt we are heading back in that direction, with "rationed care" .
     
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from 7x4. Show 7x4's posts

    Re: What’s Wrong With American Healthcare?

    Didn't CA start the trend in the 70s of emptying out the loony bins?  Poor dears were to "constrained" in there.  Much  better to have the loonies homeless and prowling outside your daughter's window.
     

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