What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TeddyffromNH. Show TeddyffromNH's posts

    What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?

    Just curious.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mattyhorn. Show Mattyhorn's posts

    Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?

    Absurd question.

    What's your point, squishy?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from easydoesit2. Show easydoesit2's posts

    Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?

    Matthew 19:21 and following?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from lrecliner. Show lrecliner's posts

    Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?

    I had to look up Matthew 19:21. Quick question, if I do indeed liquidate all my assets and give it to the poor, wouldn't the poor then have to give it back to me since now they would be rich I would be the poor one? It sounds like we would just be playing hot potato with the money.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from macnh1. Show macnh1's posts

    Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mattyhorn. Show Mattyhorn's posts

    Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?

    Dr. Evil is a conservative.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from macnh1. Show macnh1's posts

    Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?

    I'm not so sure about that.  He's corrupt, owns a cat, is always asking for billions without wanting to work for it and is an extortionist.

    Points to liberalism for me. 

    Not a great picture of George Soros eh???  Whether conservative or liberal....for some reason, I always get really irritated when foreigners come here and try to impose their opinions onto us.

    I hope Soros chokes on his next lamb dinner with mint jelly.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from movingtangent. Show movingtangent's posts

    Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?

    A lot more than conservatives know about theirs.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TeddyffromNH. Show TeddyffromNH's posts

    Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?

    Not an absurd question at all.  I have been reading about classic liberalism and trying to figure out what happened. 

    The modern liberal is a statist, totalitarian, enemy of the individual.    Consequentialism run amuck.  Yes, a facist.

    All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state, so you say.

    Game over.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from movingtangent. Show movingtangent's posts

    Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?

    In Response to Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?:
    [QUOTE]Not an absurd question at all.  I have been reading about classic liberalism and trying to figure out what happened.  The modern liberal is a statist, totalitarian, enemy of the individual.    Consequentialism run amuck.  Yes, a facist. All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state, so you say. Game over.
    Posted by TeddyffromNH[/QUOTE]

    Its easy to be confused when you are convinced that black is white.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from easydoesit2. Show easydoesit2's posts

    Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?

    In Response to Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?:
    [QUOTE]I had to look up Matthew 19:21. Quick question, if I do indeed liquidate all my assets and give it to the poor, wouldn't the poor then have to give it back to me since now they would be rich I would be the poor one? It sounds like we would just be playing hot potato with the money.
    Posted by lrecliner[/QUOTE]
    Don't worry. No individual fortune is sufficient to make ALL the poor "rich". Just like an overloaded lifeboat, everyone drowns... in poverty.  As far as your last sentence, isn't that what we are doing now? Anyway, I figured the original question posted was baiting some of us, so I tried to come up with a wiseacre answer.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BilltheKat. Show BilltheKat's posts

    Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?

    In Response to Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?:
    [QUOTE]Not an absurd question at all.  I have been reading about classic liberalism and trying to figure out what happened.  The modern liberal is a statist, totalitarian, enemy of the individual.    Consequentialism run amuck.  Yes, a facist. All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state, so you say. Game over.
    Posted by TeddyffromNH[/QUOTE]

    What exactly have you been reading? Rushbo come out with a new book?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?

    In Response to Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?:
    [QUOTE]Not an absurd question at all.  I have been reading about classic liberalism and trying to figure out what happened.  The modern liberal is a statist, totalitarian, enemy of the individual.    Consequentialism run amuck.  Yes, a facist. All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state, so you say. Game over.
    Posted by TeddyffromNH[/QUOTE]

    Read up on totalitarians.  You know nothing about them.  Liberals are no where near that political travesty.  Indeed they were cast aside, imprisoned or liquidated by the Nazis and Communists.  Liberals use the state to insure (not destroy) individual liberties. 

    And frankly, these commentaries by conservatives labeling the "true beliefs" of their opposition are tiresome.  It just degenerates into rather juvenile name-calling:  "You are a Commie-fascist" (as if that is even possible).  Instead why don't you play salesman and explain the merits of the philosophy of the conservatives?  Ahh, but which one?   That is troublesome.. social, political, economic...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TeddyffromNH. Show TeddyffromNH's posts

    Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?

    In Response to Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings? : Read up on totalitarians.  You know nothing about them.  Liberals are no where near that political travesty.  Indeed they were cast aside, imprisoned or liquidated by the Nazis and Communists.  Liberals use the state to insure (not destroy) individual liberties.  And frankly, these commentaries by conservatives labeling the "true beliefs" of their opposition are tiresome.  It just degenerates into rather juvenile name-calling:  "You are a Commie-fascist" (as if that is even possible).  Instead why don't you play salesman and explain the merits of the philosophy of the conservatives?  Ahh, but which one?   That is troublesome.. social, political, economic...
    Posted by Reubenhop[/QUOTE]

    How is collectivism, socialism and modern liberalism NOT totalitarian?  You took the bait counselor, so please, if you will.....

    An Hitler destroyed the left to replace the left.  The Nazis were National Socialists, and at the end of the day, still socialists.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TeddyffromNH. Show TeddyffromNH's posts

    Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?

    In Response to Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings? : Read up on totalitarians.  You know nothing about them.  Liberals are no where near that political travesty.  Indeed they were cast aside, imprisoned or liquidated by the Nazis and Communists.  Liberals use the state to insure (not destroy) individual liberties.  And frankly, these commentaries by conservatives labeling the "true beliefs" of their opposition are tiresome.  It just degenerates into rather juvenile name-calling:  "You are a Commie-fascist" (as if that is even possible).  Instead why don't you play salesman and explain the merits of the philosophy of the conservatives?  Ahh, but which one?   That is troublesome.. social, political, economic...
    Posted by Reubenhop[/QUOTE]

    In my opinion, and in practice, I could care less about social issues.  A true conservative allows the individual merits and the content of character bring you success and prosperity.  I dont think the tax code should benefit anyone.  I dont think we need identity politics.  If I were president, I would leave everyone alone. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from GreginMedford. Show GreginMedford's posts

    Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?

    In Response to Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings? : Its easy to be confused when you are convinced that black is white.
    Posted by movingtangent[/QUOTE]

    Ah, the Babel Fish:

    “Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bog-gglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as the final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.
    The argument goes something like this: `I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'
    `But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'
    `Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly vanished in a puff of logic.
    `Oh, that was easy,' says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets
    himself killed on the next zebra crossing.”


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?

    In Response to Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings? : How is collectivism, socialism and modern liberalism NOT totalitarian?  You took the bait counselor, so please, if you will..... An Hitler destroyed the left to replace the left.  The Nazis were National Socialists, and at the end of the day, still socialists.
    Posted by TeddyffromNH[/QUOTE]

    The Nazis were NOT socialists: they eliminated unions and kept much of the industrial elite in power.  You need to do a little more research than just their name.  They also didn't much like individual rights (the concentration camps are a big clue) and liberals like those a lot. 

    But I don't need to prove the negative of your (absurd) contention: it's your theory so you explain how a regime without any freedom run by a dictator is at all similar to a philosophy that embraces individual rights and representative democracy.   Do go ahead...  
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?

    In Response to Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings? : In my opinion, and in practice, I could care less about social issues.  A true conservative allows the individual merits and the content of character bring you success and prosperity.  I dont think the tax code should benefit anyone.  I dont think we need identity politics.  If I were president, I would leave everyone alone. 
    Posted by TeddyffromNH[/QUOTE]

    Pretty darn vague.  No taxes to benefit "anyone"?  Police, roads, courts, schools...
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TeddyffromNH. Show TeddyffromNH's posts

    Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?

    In Response to Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings? : The Nazis were NOT socialists: they eliminated unions and kept much of the industrial elite in power.  You need to do a little more research than just their name.  They also didn't much like individual rights (the concentration camps are a big clue) and liberals like those a lot.  But I don't need to prove the negative of your (absurd) contention: it's your theory so you explain how a regime without any freedom run by a dictator is at all similar to a philosophy that embraces individual rights and representative democracy.   Do go ahead...  
    Posted by Reubenhop[/QUOTE]

    Well, I suppose we'll start with Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiderpartiet....



    I suppose you can cherry pick holes in both our arguments, however, I am not backing down from my earlier statements.  And Classic Liberals cherish individual rights.  Today's liberal has long abandoned the principles of classic liberalism.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TeddyffromNH. Show TeddyffromNH's posts

    Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?

    In Response to Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings? : Pretty darn vague.  No taxes to benefit "anyone"?  Police, roads, courts, schools...
    Posted by Reubenhop[/QUOTE]

    How so?  To offer one individual preferential treatment via the tax code, requires someone else getting the shaft.  Favoritism will eventually create dependence, for individuals and business.  Sure, we need to pay taxes to keep the roads paved, police on duty etc, no arguments here.  And we need to pay teachers more to get the best teachers.  

    Modern liberals endorse and even celebrate progressive taxation. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from movingtangent. Show movingtangent's posts

    Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?

    What gives you that idea?  If I can be serious for a moment I believe you are confusing individuality with anarchy.  Liberalism has two primary tenets.  The first is the power of the individual.  Non-liberal isms like Naziism, Stalinism, and Conservatism subjugate the individual for the benefit of the state.  Conversely, the state only exists to serve the individual, not some, but all.  The second tenet is that the state be used to better the lives of everyone.  This is why we voluntarily contribute funds to a national defense, police, fire, and yes even public education.   
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?

    In Response to Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings? : Well, I suppose we'll start with Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiderpartiet.... I suppose you can cherry pick holes in both our arguments, however, I am not backing down from my earlier statements.  And Classic Liberals cherish individual rights.  Today's liberal has long abandoned the principles of classic liberalism.
    Posted by TeddyffromNH[/QUOTE]

    Cherry pick?  I think not.  It is basic philosophy and history and you just don't know it.  But keep talking...
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from aconvosier10. Show aconvosier10's posts

    Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?

    Reudenhop,  It’s easy to fall for the idea that liberals are for individual liberties, but what happens when the liberty of one person or group is worth more than another person or group? Furthermore, what do we call it when “they” give a leg-up or special protection to certain people and it’s installed and then enforced by the state? And don’t say social justice. The template of liberty should be granted to all on equal footing but that should be the limit of the states involvement, after that, controlling the outcomes and managing culture is authoritarian. Also, it requires a “hands-on” government to constantly be re-setting the scales.  

    Liberal causes are more inclined to take over versus equalize the playing field. In this light the contemporary use of the word equality is just plain doublespeak. That’s not right, oppressed groups becoming the oppressors don’t balance-out anything except wobble the fabric in new ways. Truth, in this system, is having the courage for society to let go and let the culture define itself. If that happens to oppress certain people, well, I’d take that any day over what we currently have – an external force telling me who is right(er), victim, better, more worthy, who to like, dislike, love hate etc etc. You see, it’s the external force aspect of all this that moves us dreaded and bigoted right wingers to stand up and say “enough.”
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobinVa. Show BobinVa's posts

    Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?

    Liberals like movingtangent and reuben define liberalism as teddy bears and flowers, ice cream and sunsets, walks along the beach....  

    Liberals and progressives do not support "the power of the individual" . Liberals support the benevolent and all powerful State.  In accord with this, liberals supported mandatory sterilization and eugenics in the 1920s, were huge fans of fascist Italian dictator Benito Mussolini, who "made the trains run on time", National "Socialism", and liberals swooned for Stalin as well....
    The intellectual roots of liberalism and fascism are intertwined: worship of the State, trumps worship of God.
    Modern conservatism has myriad roots as well, not all admirable.
     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from aconvosier10. Show aconvosier10's posts

    Re: What do modern liberals know about their ideological beginnings?

    Bob great point,


    oddly, I think the failing of liberals is the assumption that everyone is good natured at heart a la pumpkins, gum balls, fluffy bunnies. REALITY: it's more like everyone has their own best interests in mind at all times and the rest are indeed some shades of evil. That’s why the explanation that we are a "fallen people" is most appropriate. But, I do not wish to evoke a religious context here rather that we as a race are intrinsically flawed, and trying to please everyone through developing an on-earth utopia is an exercise in futility. This just won't happen, history has shown that the good-intentions of developing utopia has resulted in massive human disaster, among other things the eugenics projects. FYI - the American eugenics project is now called planned parenthood.


    I love how, lib/progressives preach tolerance and love but the second someone disagrees they react harshly and sometimes violently.
     

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