What Exactly Is A "Christian Business"...?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    What Exactly Is A "Christian Business"...?

    This question, to me, is what's really at the heart (soul?) of the USSC's decision in the Hobby Lobby case, that a "closely held" corporation - defined as a person under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (signed by President Clinton, btw) - can have religious beliefs even as they are restricted from making religion a criteria for employment.


    By definition, legal incorporation is intended to insulate business owners' personal lives from the activities of the business itself.  Since the courts can't (and shouldn't) distinguish between "real" religions and fake ones, they are left having to decide which corporations have religious beliefs and which do not.


    I'm not trying to isolate christian-run businesses from businesses run by followers of other religions.  But it's fairly obvious this is where the plaintiffs in this case are coming from.  Even so, I am unaware of any christian tenet that prescribes faith to any particular business.  Maybe one or more of the loyal christians here can illustrate where in the bible this assertion springs from.


    So, where does this go from here?  Can mormon- or muslim-run businesses prevent their workers from smoking or drinking alcohol or using caffeine?  Can they demand employees tithe 10% of their pay to a church?  What other laws can a business ignore due to the owner's expressed religious beliefs?  Will corporations now be compelled to create their own religions in order to gain exemption from laws they don't like?


    This is not an attack on religion.  It's about properly defining our terms in a legal context we can agree upon.


     



    "When you're born, you get a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America, you get a front-row seat."  - GC

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from high-road. Show high-road's posts

    Re: What Exactly Is A

    Given the political nature of the lawsuit ... it's anything you want it to be.

    I would like to hear the argument to defend a Muslim company that won't allow it's workers to bring pork on premises .... no BLT's ever!

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: What Exactly Is A

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:


    This question, to me, is what's really at the heart (soul?) of the USSC's decision in the Hobby Lobby case, that a "closely held" corporation - defined as a person under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (signed by President Clinton, btw) - can have religious beliefs even as they are restricted from making religion a criteria for employment.


     


    By definition, legal incorporation is intended to insulate business owners' personal lives from the activities of the business itself.  Since the courts can't (and shouldn't) distinguish between "real" religions and fake ones, they are left having to decide which corporations have religious beliefs and which do not.


     


    I'm not trying to isolate christian-run businesses from businesses run by followers of other religions.  But it's fairly obvious this is where the plaintiffs in this case are coming from.  Even so, I am unaware of any christian tenet that prescribes faith to any particular business.  Maybe one or more of the loyal christians here can illustrate where in the bible this assertion springs from.


     


    So, where does this go from here?  Can mormon- or muslim-run businesses prevent their workers from smoking or drinking alcohol or using caffeine?  Can they demand employees tithe 10% of their pay to a church?  What other laws can a business ignore due to the owner's expressed religious beliefs?  Will corporations now be compelled to create their own religions in order to gain exemption from laws they don't like?


     


    This is not an attack on religion.  It's about properly defining our terms in a legal context we can agree upon.


     


     





    "When you're born, you get a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America, you get a front-row seat."  - GC





    Where does this go from here?


    Your incorrect assumption is that this is some sort of general massive offensive expansion of the First Amendment's protection of religious freedoms...


    This was a defensive decision specifically against the massive unprecedented Government expansion involved in ObamaCare. The court decided the case before it, protecting the First Amendment against aggressive Government coercion;  protecting against Government excess.


    All the other what-ifs about some fantasy that there is no limit on what someone may claim is protected as a religious belief is just sour grapes....

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: What Exactly Is A

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    This question, to me, is what's really at the heart (soul?) of the USSC's decision in the Hobby Lobby case, that a "closely held" corporation - defined as a person under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (signed by President Clinton, btw) - can have religious beliefs even as they are restricted from making religion a criteria for employment.

     

     

     

    By definition, legal incorporation is intended to insulate business owners' personal lives from the activities of the business itself.  Since the courts can't (and shouldn't) distinguish between "real" religions and fake ones, they are left having to decide which corporations have religious beliefs and which do not.

     

     

     

    I'm not trying to isolate christian-run businesses from businesses run by followers of other religions.  But it's fairly obvious this is where the plaintiffs in this case are coming from.  Even so, I am unaware of any christian tenet that prescribes faith to any particular business.  Maybe one or more of the loyal christians here can illustrate where in the bible this assertion springs from.

     

     

     

    So, where does this go from here?  Can mormon- or muslim-run businesses prevent their workers from smoking or drinking alcohol or using caffeine?  Can they demand employees tithe 10% of their pay to a church?  What other laws can a business ignore due to the owner's expressed religious beliefs?  Will corporations now be compelled to create their own religions in order to gain exemption from laws they don't like?

     

     

     

    This is not an attack on religion.  It's about properly defining our terms in a legal context we can agree upon.

     

     

     

     

     



     

    "When you're born, you get a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America, you get a front-row seat."  - GC

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Where does this go from here?

     

     

    Your incorrect assumption is that this is some sort of general massive offensive expansion of the First Amendment's protection of religious freedoms...

     

    This was a defensive decision specifically against the massive unprecedented Government expansion involved in ObamaCare. The court decided the case before it, protecting the First Amendment against aggressive Government coercion;  protecting against Government excess.

     

    All the other what-ifs about some fantasy that there is no limit on what someone may claim is protected as a religious belief is just sour grapes....

    [/QUOTE]


    As usual, you didn't pay attention to a single word I wrote and instead offered your own strawman word salad with all the insight of a lump of dried clay.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: What Exactly Is A

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    This question, to me, is what's really at the heart (soul?) of the USSC's decision in the Hobby Lobby case, that a "closely held" corporation - defined as a person under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (signed by President Clinton, btw) - can have religious beliefs even as they are restricted from making religion a criteria for employment.

     

    By definition, legal incorporation is intended to insulate business owners' personal lives from the activities of the business itself.  Since the courts can't (and shouldn't) distinguish between "real" religions and fake ones, they are left having to decide which corporations have religious beliefs and which do not.

     

    I'm not trying to isolate christian-run businesses from businesses run by followers of other religions.  But it's fairly obvious this is where the plaintiffs in this case are coming from.  Even so, I am unaware of any christian tenet that prescribes faith to any particular business.  Maybe one or more of the loyal christians here can illustrate where in the bible this assertion springs from.

     

    So, where does this go from here?  Can mormon- or muslim-run businesses prevent their workers from smoking or drinking alcohol or using caffeine?  Can they demand employees tithe 10% of their pay to a church?  What other laws can a business ignore due to the owner's expressed religious beliefs?  Will corporations now be compelled to create their own religions in order to gain exemption from laws they don't like?

     

    This is not an attack on religion.  It's about properly defining our terms in a legal context we can agree upon.

     

     



    "When you're born, you get a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America, you get a front-row seat."  - GC

    [/QUOTE]

    Hey, if you think the word "marriage" can be appended with the word "gay", then you should have no problem appending the word "business" with the word "Christian"

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: What Exactly Is A

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     


    This question, to me, is what's really at the heart (soul?) of the USSC's decision in the Hobby Lobby case, that a "closely held" corporation - defined as a person under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (signed by President Clinton, btw) - can have religious beliefs even as they are restricted from making religion a criteria for employment.


     


    By definition, legal incorporation is intended to insulate business owners' personal lives from the activities of the business itself.  Since the courts can't (and shouldn't) distinguish between "real" religions and fake ones, they are left having to decide which corporations have religious beliefs and which do not.


     


    I'm not trying to isolate christian-run businesses from businesses run by followers of other religions.  But it's fairly obvious this is where the plaintiffs in this case are coming from.  Even so, I am unaware of any christian tenet that prescribes faith to any particular business.  Maybe one or more of the loyal christians here can illustrate where in the bible this assertion springs from.


     


    So, where does this go from here?  Can mormon- or muslim-run businesses prevent their workers from smoking or drinking alcohol or using caffeine?  Can they demand employees tithe 10% of their pay to a church?  What other laws can a business ignore due to the owner's expressed religious beliefs?  Will corporations now be compelled to create their own religions in order to gain exemption from laws they don't like?


     


    This is not an attack on religion.  It's about properly defining our terms in a legal context we can agree upon.


     


     





    "When you're born, you get a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America, you get a front-row seat."  - GC


     




    Where does this go from here?

     

     

    Your incorrect assumption is that this is some sort of general massive offensive expansion of the First Amendment's protection of religious freedoms...

     

    This was a defensive decision specifically against the massive unprecedented Government expansion involved in ObamaCare. The court decided the case before it, protecting the First Amendment against aggressive Government coercion;  protecting against Government excess.

     

    All the other what-ifs about some fantasy that there is no limit on what someone may claim is protected as a religious belief is just sour grapes....

    [/QUOTE]

    So why didn't it rule against ObamaCare requiring everyone to buy Health Insurance when it had the chance?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: What Exactly Is A

    In response to ronreganfan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Hey, if you think the word "marriage" can be appended with the word "gay", then you should have no problem appending the word "business" with the word "Christian"

    [/QUOTE]


    Hey, if you had any thought at all, you would understand how pitiful your responses are.

     

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: What Exactly Is A

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:


    In response to ronreganfan's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Hey, if you think the word "marriage" can be appended with the word "gay", then you should have no problem appending the word "business" with the word "Christian"





    Hey, if you had any thought at all, you would understand how pitiful your responses are.


     


     


    [/QUOTE]

    Another progressive brain explodes when their own logic is turned against them.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: What Exactly Is A

    In response to ronreganfan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    [QUOTE]

    In response to ronreganfan's comment:

    [QUOTE]

    Hey, if you think the word "marriage" can be appended with the word "gay", then you should have no problem appending the word "business" with the word "Christian"

    [/QUOTE]

    Hey, if you had any thought at all, you would understand how pitiful your responses are.

    [/QUOTE]


    Another progressive brain explodes when their own logic is turned against them.

    [/QUOTE]

    Except there's no logic in your post to turn around.

    Time to admit you're really bad at this stuff....

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: What Exactly Is A

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:


    In response to ronreganfan's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    In response to MattyScornD's comment:


    [QUOTE]


    In response to ronreganfan's comment:


    [QUOTE]


    Hey, if you think the word "marriage" can be appended with the word "gay", then you should have no problem appending the word "business" with the word "Christian"



    Hey, if you had any thought at all, you would understand how pitiful your responses are.


    [/QUOTE]



    Another progressive brain explodes when their own logic is turned against them.


    [/QUOTE]

    Except there's no logic in your post to turn around.


    Time to admit you're really bad at this stuff....


     


    [/QUOTE]

    Hahaha!


    progressives denying the obvious.  How, progressive of them.


    basically, you are a hypocrite. You wish to do harm to Christians, so, you create a scenario where being a Christian business is verboten, because you say so.  All other descriptions, gay marriage, undocumented Americans, and so on, those are all a-ok, right?  After all, those are rights issues.  But, Christians don't have rights?


     My, my.


     


    btw: the tenet you are looking for is this: you are a Christian in all parts of your life, not just Sunday mornings.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: What Exactly Is A

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ronreganfan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Hey, if you think the word "marriage" can be appended with the word "gay", then you should have no problem appending the word "business" with the word "Christian"

    [/QUOTE]


    Hey, if you had any thought at all, you would understand how pitiful your responses are.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    In other words - he doesn't know either. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from high-road. Show high-road's posts

    Re: What Exactly Is A

    In response to ronreganfan's comment:


    Hey, if you think the word "marriage" can be appended with the word "gay", then you should have no problem appending the word "business" with the word "Christian"




    Only a wingnut homophobes think that the word 'marriage' has to be appended to cover every citizen.


    Sorry spanky, but your phobias don't change the meanings of words ... it only belies your prejudice.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: What Exactly Is A

    In response to high-road's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ronreganfan's comment:

    [QUOTE]
    Hey, if you think the word "marriage" can be appended with the word "gay", then you should have no problem appending the word "business" with the word "Christian"

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Only a wingnut homophobes think that the word 'marriage' has to be appended to cover every citizen.

     

     

    Sorry spanky, but your phobias don't change the meanings of words ... it only belies your prejudice.

    [/QUOTE]

    Sure it has.  We live in a hyphenated society.  You are an African-American, a gay-American, and so on.  We are a society held together by the separation in our identity.  Marriage has been broken into at least two distinct groupings, straight marriages, and gay marriages.  Dis riptide, no?

    so, when Matty ponders about if we should shut down the distinction of being a Christian business, as if being a Christian is the one distinction where you must leave your identity at the door, all for good, non-bigoted reasons, mind you, well, one needs to throw down the hypocrisy card on him.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: What Exactly Is A

    In response to ronreganfan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    so, when Matty ponders about if we should shut down the distinction of being a Christian business, as if being a Christian is the one distinction where you must leave your identity at the door, all for good, non-bigoted reasons, mind you, well, one needs to throw down the hypocrisy card on him.

    [/QUOTE]


    Stop lying.

    I didn't say that or anything close.  I'm just trying to hear a supposed christian's perspective on what exactly constitutes a "christian business".

    The very concept is an oxymoron.  Businesses do not have faith.  Per the bible, god does not sanction one economic activity over another or endorse any particular commerce.

    And again, if jesus really hates the plan B drug, why do the hobby lobby owners invest in companies that make it...??  That's the hypocrisy you conveniently ignore.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: What Exactly Is A

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ronreganfan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    so, when Matty ponders about if we should shut down the distinction of being a Christian business, as if being a Christian is the one distinction where you must leave your identity at the door, all for good, non-bigoted reasons, mind you, well, one needs to throw down the hypocrisy card on him.

    [/QUOTE]


    Stop lying.

    I didn't say that or anything close.  I'm just trying to hear a supposed christian's perspective on what exactly constitutes a "christian business".

    The very concept is an oxymoron.  Businesses do not have faith.  Per the bible, god does not sanction one economic activity over another or endorse any particular commerce.

    And again, if jesus really hates the plan B drug, why do the hobby lobby owners invest in companies that make it...??  That's the hypocrisy you conveniently ignore.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You are spinning like a top, Matty!

    trapped by your own hypocrisy.  Of course, you don't see your position as hypocrisy.

    i made no position on the hobby lobby case. You did. No hypocrisy for me!

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: What Exactly Is A

    A troll that whines.  Doesn't change the fact that Ronnie is a troll.  

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: What Exactly Is A

    In response to WhatNowDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It would seem that Sir Robin has slain my post, among others.

    [/QUOTE]

    Who is deleting all these posts? Who ever it is, stop it.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: What Exactly Is A

    In response to DirtyWaterLover's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    A troll that whines.  Doesn't change the fact that Ronnie is a troll.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Dirt lover chalks up another loss. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: What Exactly Is A

    In response to WhatNowDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ronreganfan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to WhatNowDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It would seem that Sir Robin has slain my post, among others.

    [/QUOTE]

    Who is deleting all these posts? Who ever it is, stop it.

    [/QUOTE]

    mmmm..

    [/QUOTE]

    Well, it ain't me. My posts are taking a big hit.

     

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