Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?

    All this talk about contraception, and no real discussion on the actual issue, that Obama is beyond his constitutional authority to order this.

    But, that aside, why is this such a big issue for progressives?  Contraception is widely available, and in many cases free.  no one, and I mean NO ONE is denied contraception in this country.

    Yet, the left persists with the myth that the catholic church is denying women contraception.  This is simply not true, considering it is available elsewhere.

    So, what dirves this inherently dishonest argument from the left?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?

    In Response to Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?:
    [QUOTE]I think the real question is: I can understand why you would very much want the question to be different.
    Posted by WhatDoYouWantNow[/QUOTE]

    ???

    Lying about my posts again?  For example, the Kenyan Socialsim remark was from someone else.  I merely pointed out that it was Keynsian Socialsim, a play on words.  If you are gowing to quote me in orderto discredit me, at least try to do it without lying.

    But that aside, I'm just not getting you.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?

    In Response to Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?:
    [QUOTE]I wonder what it's like to live in a world where by my merely saying something, it comes to be. Tell me, Picard. How is it?
    Posted by WhatDoYouWantNow[/QUOTE]


    Make it so, number one!

    You are really having some difficulties here, are you not?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?

    Skeeter..if you don't understand what this whole thing is about by now..sorry..I am not a miracle worker and have given up trying to convince stubborn males on the internet what is the truth and what is not.

    My recommendation to you..if you really want to know..is to step away from the keyboard for a bit and talk to the women in your life.

    FYI..once again..contraceptives are not available "free of charge" to most women who have private health insurance. This is about making sure a company provides proper value for it's premiums and adequate coverage. Whether or not you choose to believe it..contraception is considered preventative medicine. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?

    In Response to Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?:
    [QUOTE]Skeeter..if you don't understand what this whole thing is about by now..sorry..I am not a miracle worker and have given up trying to convince stubborn males on the internet what is the truth and what is not. My recommendation to you..if you really want to know..is to step away from the keyboard for a bit and talk to the women in your life. FYI..once again..contraceptives are not available "free of charge" to most women who have private health insurance. This is about making sure a company provides proper value for it's premiums and adequate coverage. Whether or not you choose to believe it..contraception is considered preventative medicine. 
    Posted by miscricket[/QUOTE]

    Stop being a jerk.  you know darn well Obama created this issue.

    Was contraception available widely , and in many cases free before this mandate?  Yes.

    So, what has changed?  That church institutions must provide it for free?

    I am not getting how women were previously harmed and are now healed by this mandate. 

    So, tell me.  How is Obama forcing the catholic church to offer contraceptives constitutional or beneficial to catholic women?  Are they not free to decide to be catholic or not?  Is there not a drug store on every corner?  Are we not riddled with free clinics, Planned Parenthood offices from coast to coast?

    This is not about contraception, or about the frail vessels we call women being somehow harmed.  How quickly the left forgets the constitution and real rights when a shiny coin rolls by.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhichOnesPink. Show WhichOnesPink's posts

    Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?

    This is about making sure a company provides proper value for it's premiums and adequate coverage. Whether or not you choose to believe it..contraception is considered preventative medicine. 


    Yup...preventative medicine that can be purchased at any supermarket or drugstore...e.g. condoms. The point is contraception IS available to EVERYONE. No one in this country is without the ability to obtain contraception. Therefore it doesn't need to be mandatory. 
    As an example, because people with poor eyesight can wear glasses ( i.e. have an option to correct vision) lasik isn't a covered service through insurance (or at least a mandated one). It's when there are no options that something can/should be mandated for coverage.



     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?

    Okay..Skeeter..I will give it one more try. This issue isn't about churches. Churches always have been and always will be exempt from this mandate. This is about church -affiliated businesses. The key word here is business. Once an organization starts hiring people..they are an employer and subject to laws and regulations that govern business. This is why in this country there is a separation of church and state.
    This is about the right taking a laundry list of health care services that private health care companies must cover 100 percent ( you know..in exchange for the premiums we pay every week for this coverage)..and singling out the one thing exclusively for women..contraception. Now..no matter how much you stomp your feet..contraception has been classified as preventative medicine. If you don't like that..take it up with the AMA. Omana's mandate is about insurance companies covering preventative medicine in a more comprehensive way. To me..the only party in this mandate who should have an issue is the private health insurance company..yet they are silent. Ask yourself..why aren't the health insurers up in arms over this..?  It's because they understand that expanding access to contraceptive by lowering the cost is beneficial to their bottom line as well.
    Seriously Skeeter..are you just angry because you still have to pay for condoms? You shouldn't be..after all..condoms are available on most street corners..and if you go to Planned Parenthood..you can even get them for free :-)
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?

    contraception is considered preventative medicine.

    *Sigh*

    Combating the disease of pregnancy.

    I can't believe that the female workers for Catholic organizations have not all succumbed to this horrible scourge of humanity. Thank God Obama is out there trying to save the world from children.


     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?

    Condoms..right..any woman who would put the decision to delay pregnancy in the hands of a man with a condom is a fool. Sorry..but a woman has more of a right to control what happens to her body than to rely on a man's correct use of a condom that may or may not break.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhichOnesPink. Show WhichOnesPink's posts

    Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?

    In Response to Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?:
    [QUOTE]Condoms..right..any woman who would put the decision to delay pregnancy in the hands of a man with a condom is a fool. Sorry..but a woman has more of a right to control what happens to her body than to rely on a man's correct use of a condom that may or may not break.
    Posted by miscricket[/QUOTE]

    I dunno...if I were a woman and relying on a condom I'd still make the guy pull out when he ejaculates. Not too mention the pill isn't 100% effective. 
    And shouldn't you control against STDs??? Pill ain't stopping STDs.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from sk8ter2008. Show sk8ter2008's posts

    Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?

    In Response to Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?:
    [QUOTE] The real question you should be asking is "Why it was a perfectly reasonable conservative solution in the 90s... ...and now it's Kenyan Socialism." Posted by WhatDoYouWantNow[/QUOTE]

    When was this bill "a perfectly reasonable conservative solution"??
    Or are you just bloviating that since the GOP was seeking reform in the 90's (that looked almost nothing like this bill) they are hypocrites for not accepting THIS bill now??
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?

    In Response to Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?:
    [QUOTE]This is about making sure a company provides proper value for it's premiums and adequate coverage. Whether or not you choose to believe it..contraception is considered preventative medicine.  Yup...preventative medicine that can be purchased at any supermarket or drugstore...e.g. condoms. The point is contraception IS available to EVERYONE. No one in this country is without the ability to obtain contraception. Therefore it doesn't need to be mandatory.  As an example, because people with poor eyesight can wear glasses ( i.e. have an option to correct vision) lasik isn't a covered service through insurance (or at least a mandated one). It's when there are no options that something can/should be mandated for coverage.
    Posted by WhichOnesPink[/QUOTE]


    Condoms are less reliable than the pill at preventing unwanted pregnancies and do nothing to regulate hormonal imbalances which strike a vast majority of women every month.  The pill is also indeed preventative medicine.

    I get your point, but I think there are matters of equivalence here.

    Also, vision is not covered under health plans and is offered separately...just like prescription coverage.  As I understand it, the rule in question applies to prescription coverage, not health coverage.

    Perhaps another example could be glasses vs. contact lens coverage, which (as far as I know) does not distinguish between people who, for some medical reasons, must use either one or the other.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhichOnesPink. Show WhichOnesPink's posts

    Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?

    In Response to Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties? : Condoms are less reliable than the pill at preventing unwanted pregnancies and do nothing to regulate hormonal imbalances which strike a vast majority of women every month.  The pill is also indeed preventative medicine. I get your point, but I think there are matters of equivalence here. Also, vision is not covered under health plans and is offered separately...just like prescription coverage.  As I understand it, the rule in question applies to prescription coverage, not health coverage. Perhaps another example could be glasses vs. contact lens coverage, which (as far as I know) does not distinguish between people who, for some medical reasons, must use either one or the other.
    Posted by MattyScornD[/QUOTE]

    It may be considered preventative medicine but again as there are options aside from the pill it wasn't deemed as something to mandate. Typically there has to be no other options for something to be mandated. I for one could care less if it's mandated. What will be interesting is to see if it has a real affect. If unwanted pregnancies go down as a result of this then great. If not then it proves you can lead a horse to water but can't make him (or in this case her) drink it. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?

    In Response to Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties? : It may be considered preventative medicine but again as there are options aside from the pill it wasn't deemed as something to mandate. Typically there has to be no other options for something to be mandated. I for one could care less if it's mandated. What will be interesting is to see if it has a real affect. If unwanted pregnancies go down as a result of this then great. If not then it proves you can lead a horse to water but can't make him (or in this case her) drink it. 
    Posted by WhichOnesPink[/QUOTE]

    Good points.

    To which I'll add that every woman's physiology is different and may preclude all or none of those options.  And as you said, even the pill isn't 100% accurate.  In that case, there's no reason why all of the prescription options should not be covered under a prescription plan.

    Your last point is an interesting one.  By that same logic, there is no mandate that a woman must utilize the benefit if offered.  It's still her choice as the insured.  So, why should it matter in the least to her employer whether it's offered or not...?
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhichOnesPink. Show WhichOnesPink's posts

    Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?

    In Response to Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties? : Good points. To which I'll add that every woman's physiology is different and may preclude all or none of those options.  And as you said, even the pill isn't 100% accurate.  In that case, there's no reason why all of the prescription options should not be covered under a prescription plan. Your last point is an interesting one.  By that same logic, there is no mandate that a woman must utilize the benefit if offered.  It's still her choice as the insured.  So, why should it matter in the least to her employer whether it's offered or not...?
    Posted by MattyScornD[/QUOTE]

    So, why should it matter in the least to her employer whether it's offered or not...?

    I don't think it would/should to most employers...other than it might impact the premiums for having it covered. But if it's mandated then not much can be done by an employer. It is what it is.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Firewind. Show Firewind's posts

    Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?

    Isn't it clear by now that about three people have us arguing the birth control question all over again in the 21st century - by whatever guise?  It is about birth control.  That is core of The Catholic Church's reason for being in this game at all (well, that and their brand).  The discussion on this board is already evolving (sorry to use an epithet here) to the question of its efficacy.  Remember that one being thrown in, several decades ago?  And there's the aspirin sort-of joke.  Someone's channeling my grandma.  And others are arguing and arguing on their behalf.  Against the women -- here, there and everywhere (congress and television - not necessarily in that order).  It's like the movie Ground Hog Day.  Or Rumplestiltskin.  As I've asked, how far back?

    Actually, one should hope that those with the stamina will keep it going. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?

    In Response to Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties? : I dunno...if I were a woman and relying on a condom I'd still make the guy pull out when he ejaculates. Not too mention the pill isn't 100% effective.  And shouldn't you control against STDs??? Pill ain't stopping STDs.
    Posted by WhichOnesPink[/QUOTE]
    Right..because that is a fulfilling experience. If I were doing that I would not bother...
    That's the thing..women should not have to rely on a condom when there are other more effective methods. I would never rely on a condom...ever. Yes..they are good barriers to std's  but I don't believe in abortion for birth control..so you'd better believe that I am vigilant up front and would prefer to use the best..most reliable method.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?

    In Response to Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties? : So, why should it matter in the least to her employer whether it's offered or not...? I don't think it would/should to most employers...other than it might impact the premiums for having it covered. But if it's mandated then not much can be done by an employer. It is what it is.
    Posted by WhichOnesPink[/QUOTE]

    But as far as I know, most employers can't choose which prescription drugs are covered (i.e. scheduled) within a given prescription drug plan.  They can either opt for the plan or not.  Even then, the plans change their schedule of covered drugs every year.

    Incidentally, I've dealt first-hand with doctors/insurers who aren't in sync with which brand/generics are covered...frustrating to say the least.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhichOnesPink. Show WhichOnesPink's posts

    Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?

    In Response to Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties? : Right..because that is a fulfilling experience. If I were doing that I would not bother... That's the thing..women should not have to rely on a condom when there are other more effective methods. I would never rely on a condom...ever. Yes..they are good barriers to std's  but I don't believe in abortion for birth control..so you'd better believe that I am vigilant up front and would prefer to use the best..most reliable method.
    Posted by miscricket[/QUOTE]

    Right..because that is a fulfilling experience. If I were doing that I would not bother...


    You'd prefer getting pregnant then??? Would that be more "fulfilling"??? Would getting an STD be more "fulfilling"? Good luck!


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhichOnesPink. Show WhichOnesPink's posts

    Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?

    In Response to Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties? : But as far as I know, most employers can't choose which prescription drugs are covered (i.e. scheduled) within a given prescription drug plan.  They can either opt for the plan or not.  Even then, the plans change their schedule of covered drugs every year. Incidentally, I've dealt first-hand with doctors/insurers who aren't in sync with which brand/generics are covered...frustrating to say the least.
    Posted by MattyScornD[/QUOTE]

    Of course employers can't. Who said they could?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?

    In Response to Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties? : Right..because that is a fulfilling experience. If I were doing that I would not bother... That's the thing..women should not have to rely on a condom when there are other more effective methods. I would never rely on a condom...ever. Yes..they are good barriers to std's  but I don't believe in abortion for birth control..so you'd better believe that I am vigilant up front and would prefer to use the best..most reliable method.
    Posted by miscricket[/QUOTE]


    Nothing stopping you from buying all the contraceptives you want, that is contraceptives you are willing to pay for.  You could do that before Obama.  so, what's the importance of Obamacare and contraception?  What's the benefit?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?

    In Response to Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties? : Nothing stopping you from buying all the contraceptives you want, that is contraceptives you are willing to pay for.  You could do that before Obama.  so, what's the importance of Obamacare and contraception?  What's the benefit?
    Posted by skeeter20[/QUOTE]

    It's cheaper to buy medical services and products as part of an insured group than as an individual. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Firewind. Show Firewind's posts

    Re: Why is the Health Care mandate so important to lefties?

    Returning to respond to the actual broad question that's the title of this thread ... (despite the way it extends the pattern of the title and the content producing cognitive dissonance) ... To possibly move our nation up a couple of notches from 27th among industrialized nations?  It would be another quality to brag about.
     

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