why isn't obama arming Brazilian rebels? thousands take to the streets in protest.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from MrCricket. Show MrCricket's posts

    why isn't obama arming Brazilian rebels? thousands take to the streets in protest.

    (New York Times) SÃO PAULO, Brazil — Protesters showed up by the thousands inBrazil’s largest cities on Monday night in a remarkable display of strength for an agitation that had begun with small protests against bus-fare increases, then evolved into a broader movement by groups and individuals irate over a range of issues including the country’s high cost of living and lavish new stadium projects.

    The growing protests rank among the largest and most resonant since the nation’s military dictatorship ended in 1985, with demonstrators numbering into the tens of thousands gathered here in São Paulo, Brazil’s largest city, and other large protests unfolding in cities like Rio de Janeiro, Salvador, Curitiba, Belém and Brasília, the capital, where marchers made their way to the roof of Congress.

    Sharing a parallel with the antigovernment protests in Turkey, the demonstrations in Brazil intensified after a harsh police crackdown last week stunned many citizens. In images shared widely on social media, the police here were seen beating unarmed protesters with batons and dispersing crowds by firing rubber bullets and tear gas into their midst.

    “The violence has come from the government,” said Mariana Toledo, 27, a graduate student at the University of São Paulo who was among the protesters on Monday. “Such violent acts by the police instill fear, and at the same time the need to keep protesting.”

    While the demonstration in São Paulo was not marred by the widespread repression that marked a protest here last week, riot police officers in Belo Horizonte dispersed protesters with pepper spray and tear gas. In Porto Alegre, in southern Brazil, police officers also used tear gas against protesters.

    In Rio de Janeiro, where an independent estimate put the number of protesters around 100,000, televised images showed masked demonstrators trying to storm public buildings including the state legislature, a part of which was set on fire. In Brasilía, the police seemed to be caught off-guard by protesters who danced and chanted on the roof of Congress, a modernist building designed by the architect Oscar Niemeyer.

    Such broad protests are relatively uncommon in Brazil, with some Brazilian political analysts describing what appeared to be a political culture more accepting of longstanding high levels of inequality and substandard public services than citizens in some neighboring countries in South America.

    “The dangerous news announced on the streets, the novelty that the state tried to crush under the hooves of the horses of São Paulo’s police, is that at last we are alive,” the writer Eliane Brum said in an essay about the protests.

    Brazil now seems to be pivoting toward a new phase of interaction between demonstrators and political leaders with its wave of protests, which crystallized this year in Porto Alegre. There, a group called the Free Fare Movement, which advocates lower public transportation fares, organized demonstrations against a hike in bus fares.

    Similar protests emerged in May in Natal, a city in northeast Brazil, and this month in São Paulo, after the authorities raised bus fares by the equivalent of about 9 cents to 3.20 reais, about $1.47, prompting a wave of demonstrations that have grown in intensity.

    While the hike came at a time of growing concern over inflation, which remains high even as economic growth has slowed considerably, the anger over the increase also reflects broader indignation over public transportation systems in São Paulo and in other large cities, which are plagued by inefficiency, overcrowding and crime.

    “Today’s protests are the result of years and years of depending on chaotic and expensive transportation,” said Érica de Oliveira, 22, a student who was among the demonstrators.

    A large number of protesters in São Paulo on Monday were university students, but middle-aged professionals and parents with children in strollers were also present. The scene seemed at once furious and festive. Some protesters had draped Brazilian flags over their shoulders; one held up a sign that read, “Brazil Colony, until when?”

    While the protest in Brasília included strong criticism of congressional leaders, many placards here in São Paulo did not direct anger at Congress, at the federal government in Brasília or even at local authorities on the state or municipal level. Still, protesters in various cities focused on symbols of government power. Here in São Paulo, they marched to the governor’s palace; in Rio, to the state legislature; and in Brasília, to the Congress.

    Fabio Malini, a scholar who analyzes data patterns in social media at the Federal University of Espírito Santo, said he was impressed by the movement’s refusal to be defined by a single objective and by its extensive use of social media, which has enabled it to evolve fast in response to various sources of social and political tension in Brazil.

    One issue surging to the fore involves anger over stadium projects in various cities ahead of the 2014 World Cup, which Brazil is preparing to host. Some projects have been hindered by cost overruns and delays, the unfinished structures standing as testament to an injection of resources into sports arenas at a time when schools and public transit systems need upgrades.

    “The largest protests are happening in cities which will host World Cup games,” Mr. Malini said. “Brazilians are mixing soccer and politics in a way that is new, and minority voices are making themselves heard.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/18/world/americas/thousands-gather-for-protests-in-brazils-largest-cities.html?_r=0

    Paula Ramon contributed reporting from São Paulo, and Taylor Barnes from Rio de Janeiro.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: why isn't obama arming Brazilian rebels? thousands take to the streets in protest.

    Why isn't Obama arming Brazilian rebels? Wouldn't that screw up Soros's inverstment in Petrobras?

    --

    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from MrCricket. Show MrCricket's posts

    Re: why isn't obama arming Brazilian rebels? thousands take to the streets in protest.

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:

     

    Why isn't Obama arming Brazilian rebels? Wouldn't that screw up Soros's inverstment in Petrobras?

    --

    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. 

     



    more importantly, Brazil isn't a perceived enemy of Israel. only in America does the government and public support a foreign leader more than they support their own leader.

    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu gets 29 standing ovations from Congress

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8GMNwDJzgo

     

     

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: why isn't obama arming Brazilian rebels? thousands take to the streets in protest.

    more importantly, Brazil isn't a perceived enemy of Israel. only in America does the government and public support a foreign leader more than they support their own leader.

    Support, in the end, needs to be earned Jimminy.


    And Andie: yeah sorry. I could have written a big riff on the failure of Brazilian socialists to continue supporting their supposed base now that they've become the entrenched establishment and don't really need them any more but I'd rather go for the cheap shot. Because I'm lazy and that's just how I roll. But mostly because I'm lazy.

     

    --

    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: why isn't obama arming Brazilian rebels? thousands take to the streets in protest.

    They are mostly Catholic or Protestant so, our govt doesn't acknowledge the issue.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: why isn't obama arming Brazilian rebels? thousands take to the streets in protest.

    The Brazillian protesters aren't rebels involved in a civil war, they are protesting substandard government services?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: why isn't obama arming Brazilian rebels? thousands take to the streets in protest.


    They are protesting high taxation and the govt's building of huge sports complexes!

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: why isn't obama arming Brazilian rebels? thousands take to the streets in protest.

    I think their big issues are the endemic corruption of the ruling class and the divergence of resources from social programs to things that the ruling class cares mores about, like enriching themselves.

    --

    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: why isn't obama arming Brazilian rebels? thousands take to the streets in protest.

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:

     

    more importantly, Brazil isn't a perceived enemy of Israel. only in America does the government and public support a foreign leader more than they support their own leader.

     

    Support, in the end, needs to be earned Jimminy.


    And Andie: yeah sorry. I could have written a big riff on the failure of Brazilian socialists to continue supporting their supposed base now that they've become the entrenched establishment and don't really need them any more but I'd rather go for the cheap shot. Because I'm lazy and that's just how I roll. But mostly because I'm lazy.

     

    --

    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.



    SB,

    Ist, no worries. Just as you posted your respect for the serious commentary contributed to the forums by the women of the forums, sometimes I guess I need a reminder to let those posters who have earned my respect for their commentary know it. You did that a long long time ago. 

    2nd, even if these people are rebels in the true sense, how many more countries are we going to send troops to? You are a vet. Sister is a vet. We are trying to pull out of Afghanistan. Now we are getting involved in Syria.

    And imagine the beating Obama would take for sending our troops into yet another country? Not really a stretch. 

    We all have places and situations we would to "help". In India, Hindu women are being killed on a daily basis. It is genocide there of one gender by the other. But the western media large ignores that. 

     

    So no, I do not consider it a "cheap shot".  The poster who started this thread had his opening post removed by BDC. I never even got to read it.

    (Many of us know who he really is. See the ongoing "Where is George Bush" thread?  miscricket and myself have turned our pages to private for the time being. His only active name at this point is "MrCricket". His main targets right now...the 3 women of the forums. ms_obstinate already had her page on private. It sucks for us, but it is what it is given the current drama. I know you stay above the drama here but I love going to your open page and seeing where and what you are posting in a flash. I do that with a handful of posters I respect. Some posters I know do the the same with my page so closing was a difficult choice. )

    That ties in with your statement that you need to earn respect.  In your life, here in the forums and to be helped yet again by the US.

    your "librul" BDC friend who is proud she earned your respect for her serious commentary,

    andiejen

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfilio. Show portfilio's posts

    Re: why isn't obama arming Brazilian rebels? thousands take to the streets in protest.

     

     

     

     

    Pepper spray?

     

    If Obama should arm civilians there, why not do it here as well when police did that to OWS?  After all, according to the 2d Amendment it is the people that should be armed to ward off abusive government.

     

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: why isn't obama arming Brazilian rebels? thousands take to the streets in protest.

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:

    I think their big issues are the endemic corruption of the ruling class and the divergence of resources from social programs to things that the ruling class cares mores about, like enriching themselves.

    --

    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.



    SB,

    Bingo! In short, that is the crux of the eruption in Brazil. 

    However that is a sovereign country's internal matter brought on by the rich and powerful getting too too greedy. 

    Just as the gap in the US is still too far in many people's opinion. But if people take to the streets here, heh, how anout some other country coming in to help the US "rebels"?

    Not only unlikely but they would be view as occupiers, trying to help overthrow our government.

    Here, we overthrow the government every 4 years when we hold a presidential election without a shot being fired. No, a

    America is not perfect, nor is democracy, but as Sister has on her profile page...I am proudest to be an American!

    I also view all of us in the forums as Americans first...all in this together. Differing points of view on different topics comes after that. Naive maybe, but that is my POV on the composure of the forum...esp. the regular contributors.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: why isn't obama arming Brazilian rebels? thousands take to the streets in protest.

    In response to portfilio's comment:

     

     

     

     

    Pepper spray?

     

    If Obama should arm civilians there, why not do it here as well when police did that to OWS?  After all, according to the 2d Amendment it is the people that should be armed to ward off abusive government.

     

     



    portfilio,

    OccupyWallStreet (OWS) is a great way to bring the issue back here to the US. Largely a peaceful movement that sprung up all over our country for those with short memories.

    Heated exchanges everywhere regarding OWS, including the forums. 

    Heated exchanges everywhere regarding the 2nd amendment, including the forums. 

    The changes in the BDC format stripped away all those years of commentary thay many posters had accumulated so right now we all have to rely on our collective memories to go back.

    If memory serves, and I believe it does, both exchanges, related threads went beyond heated to downright ugly. 

    So not only was there no question about helping to protect our own citizens practicing civil disobedience another reason not to interfere in Brazil.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: why isn't obama arming Brazilian rebels? thousands take to the streets in protest.

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    Pepper spray?

    They're just learning from our police.

    [/QUOTE]

    They are? Why do you think our police are brutalizing us?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansoribrother. Show Hansoribrother's posts

    Re: why isn't obama arming Brazilian rebels? thousands take to the streets in protest.

    First of all the Brazilian rebels are not rebels are they? They are merely protestors. They have no military organization. I suppose Obama could give them one if he wanted.

    Secondly, the Brazilian protestors are not formal enemies of the US like the rebels in Syria. So there is no real political benefit to Obama in giving aid to Brazilians because they do not hate us yet.

    Our involvement in Syria is enough Wag the Dog for Obama's attempt to keep us distracted from the abuse of power and corruption displayed in his administration. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from MrCricket. Show MrCricket's posts

    Re: why isn't obama arming Brazilian rebels? thousands take to the streets in protest.

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:

     

    more importantly, Brazil isn't a perceived enemy of Israel. only in America does the government and public support a foreign leader more than they support their own leader.

     

    Support, in the end, needs to be earned Jimminy.


    And Andie: yeah sorry. I could have written a big riff on the failure of Brazilian socialists to continue supporting their supposed base now that they've become the entrenched establishment and don't really need them any more but I'd rather go for the cheap shot. Because I'm lazy and that's just how I roll. But mostly because I'm lazy.

     

    --

    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.



    are you saying that obama hasn't earned your support, but netanyahu and his illegal settlements have? have you considered moving to israel?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: why isn't obama arming Brazilian rebels? thousands take to the streets in protest.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as883dse46s

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: why isn't obama arming Brazilian rebels? thousands take to the streets in protest.

    are you saying that obama hasn't earned your support, but netanyahu and his illegal settlements have? have you considered moving to israel?


    The State of Israel has earned my respect but I don't think they need any more goyim over there.

    --

    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from MrCricket. Show MrCricket's posts

    Re: why isn't obama arming Brazilian rebels? thousands take to the streets in protest.

    that's a non-sequitur. we are talking about leaders, not states.

    are you saying that the state of america hasn't earned your respect? they don't need any goyim over there? that's a racist statement. would it be ok for me or any other proud american to say that i don't think we need anymore jews over here? sounds like a double standard to me.

    why do you live here? move to israel and join the occupation.

     
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