Will Teachers Unions Kill Virtual Learning?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Will Teachers Unions Kill Virtual Learning?

     
     

    In 2012, education technology firms attracted $1.1 billion from venture capitalists, angel investors, corporations, and private equity—an order of magnitude more than the industry was pulling in 2002. Startups Coursera and Udacity, which offer high-quality online college courses to the masses, have each received more than $20 million from investors. Big corporations are buying their way into the industry.

    When this kind of money flowed into tech companies in other sectors of the economy, we saw radical improvements in everyday transactions, as well as some dramatic booms and busts. Think Amazon instead of the mall, iTunes instead of the record shop, Expedia instead of a travel agent. But also think Pets.com and Full Tilt Poker, where intense competition and bad politics squelched what looked like good bets. There has been a flowering of good ideas in online education, like hybrid learning, in which kids still head off to school every morning but receive the bulk of their instruction from an infinitely patient piece of software instead of a harried, overworked teacher. Yet education, particularly K–12, has remained mostly immune to the improving and empowering forces of the Internet, leaving millions of kids stuck in offline backwaters for six hours a day.

    Long-standing rules requiring that students sit in desks looking at a teacher for a certain number of hours a day—so-called seat time and line of sight requirements—could kill online learning in the cradle. Requirements for specific teacher-student ratios are tough to translate in a world where a single school day might have a student chatting with a friendly avatar online, getting tech support from an in-person teacher’s aide, and emailing with a subject-specific tutor, all while having her tests graded by a team of data-center workers in India.

    In states where online education has made headway, often via laws that make room for charter schools, local and state teachers unions have filed lawsuits and pushed legislation to place strict caps on charter school enrollment, close virtual schools altogether, and—in a rather spectacular display of purposeful obtuseness about how the Internet works—to limit enrollment to students who live in the district in which the online school is based.

    The National Education Association spent $24 million in the 2012 political campaign cycle and another $6 million on lobbying that year. Virtually all of that money went to Democrats, who are well aware the NEA is not welcoming online education companies with open arms. (Exact wording from the NEA’s website: “There also should be an absolute prohibition against the granting of charters for the purpose of home-schooling, including online charter schools that seek to provide home-schooling over the Internet.”)

    Truly amazing new products have transformative power. And competing with free isn’t impossible. But online education entrepreneurs looking to break into the K–12 market will have to do much more to come up with a product that’s a little better than what’s already out there. They have to come up with something truly new and mind-blowing, because to survive they’re going to have to short-circuit, bypass, or rewire the entire education bureaucracy. Good luck with that. 

    Despite doubling funding in the past 20 years, public education is failing. But not to worry, teacher's unions are ensuring bad teachers are retained and reform is impossible.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Will Teachers Unions Kill Virtual Learning?

    Public education is not failing.  That is right wing mythology fostered by business groups that have little knowledge of how schools actually work.  Virtual education may have a role, but it cannot substitute for a dedicated teacher using a variety of tools (including technology) to engage students.  You need the human element to connect with young people.  They are kids not widgets.

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Will Teachers Unions Kill Virtual Learning?

    The opinion piece that the OP has brought us it full of misinformation..and clearly the writer of the piece has not thought this thing through very well.

    If you read the entire article..the first glaring untruth is that in higher education...online and hybrid classes are less expensive. This could not be further from the truth. Actually..students pay more for these classes than they do for traditional classes because of the added technology component.


    It would take me all day to go over each point made in the "article" and debunk it..so instead..I'll ask this question of the OP. Where are you suggesting that this "virtual learning" take place? I mean..in a physical sense...

    Finland has the best and most effective education system in the world. I suggest that rather than listening to people who don't know what they are talking about..that the OP do some research on the reasons why the Finland system is so successful.  I'll even give you a hint...words like prestigous and holistic come to mind.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: Will Teachers Unions Kill Virtual Learning?

    You simply can't replace that "HUMAN TOUCH" !

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Will Teachers Unions Kill Virtual Learning?

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:

    You simply can't replace that "HUMAN TOUCH" !




    Yes, the  'human touch'....corrupt teacher unions have the special "human touch" with their partners, the Democratic Party... everyone is fat and happy, except the children, who arent properly educated.

    The most important 'human touch' for children are parents...yet Obama wants mandatory preschool at age 4, to take kids from families and have the State raise them...

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: Will Teachers Unions Kill Virtual Learning?

    Br'er Crankup you can come out and say it ...... when it come to the issue of education with the righties ... it has nothing to do with education ... it's all about the private sector getting  their hands on the multi billions dollars that is needed to educate our kids.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Will Teachers Unions Kill Virtual Learning?

    The private sector...private schools...get their hands on money, if they succeed in educating kids. If private schools dont show results, they reform, or go out of business.
    Quite a concept, called accountability.

    The public sector and public schools fail...and they get more money, doubling down on failure. Reform? Forgeddaboutit.
    The greedy public teacher unions care first and foremost about political power,politics, and teacher pensions, not the kids.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Will Teachers Unions Kill Virtual Learning?

    CLC...you still haven't answered my question. When/where does this virtual learning take place??

     

    Also..it's been proven that for-profit models of education simply don't work and are ineffective. How do you address that? There are many public services that can and should be privatized..but education is not one of them.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: Will Teachers Unions Kill Virtual Learning?

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    The private sector...private schools...get their hands on money, if they succeed in educating kids. If private schools dont show results, they reform, or go out of business.
    Quite a concept, called accountability.

    The public sector and public schools fail...and they get more money, doubling down on failure. Reform? Forgeddaboutit.
    The greedy public teacher unions care first and foremost about political power,politics, and teacher pensions, not the kids.




    I went to Catholic Schools from K to 12   ... than I went to the University of Uncle Sams Misguided Children for almost 8 years ... my kids went to public school except for one who went to a Catholic High School ..... all three graduated from decents colleges and one has his Masters and the two girls are working on their Masters now ..... all three are doing well now .. my wife and I have no complaints about public schools ....

    Now what type of school did you graduate from public or private ..... I know you won't say public school because it doesn't enhance your argument ....

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Will Teachers Unions Kill Virtual Learning?

    In response to Newtster's comment:

    In response to Reubenhop's comment:

     

    Public education is not failing.  That is right wing mythology fostered by business groups that have little knowledge of how schools actually work.  Virtual education may have a role, but it cannot substitute for a dedicated teacher using a variety of tools (including technology) to engage students.  You need the human element to connect with young people.  They are kids not widgets.

     



    "Public education is not failing". This is proof that you are dillusional, and I am being kind by saying that.

     

    Believe it or not, everyone, even an evil corporate CEO, goes to school and most to public schools. Then most of them have kids and most of them goto public schools.  Plus many of these people have to hire the workers that graduate from public schools. They know from first hand experience what their public schools are like.What experience do you have in the corporate environment you condemn in ignorance? 

    They know that the public education system is not turning out enough graduates with the right degree and with a quality education. 

    If the public schools are working so well, why do so many graduate with sub-par math and reading skills? Why do colleges have to give incoming freshmen remedial classes? If the public schools are working so well, why do many students that go to public universities end up with a huge pile of debt?

    "Public schools are not failing" LOL! You are talking out of you butthole. Talk to some of your moonbat politicians that are always demanding more money. What do they say about the public schools??

    I suppose you can call  me a right wing conspiratorialist now so you can keep your leftwing fantasy world intact.



    You think I am delusional?  Than I must be right.  Because frankly, you are an idiot ideologue who gave up a rational consideration of the facts long ago. 

    What do I know about real life?  I ran my own business for years. What do you know about education? Just what you read on right wing blogs.  I actually live it.  Is it perfect?  Of course not. Is it a failure?  Not to the vast majority.

    Now run along and rant some where else:you have nothing to offer in terms of actual honest discussion.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Will Teachers Unions Kill Virtual Learning?

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:

     

    You simply can't replace that "HUMAN TOUCH" !

     




    Yes, the  'human touch'....corrupt teacher unions have the special "human touch" with their partners, the Democratic Party... everyone is fat and happy, except the children, who arent properly educated.

     

    The most important 'human touch' for children are parents...yet Obama wants mandatory preschool at age 4, to take kids from families and have the State raise them...




    Computers will replace humans in your weird world.  That will properly socialize them!  They will properly educate them! And now preschool is a threat!  Just stupid talk. Do you ever actually think about the stuff you post? Apparently not.  You must have had a bad education.... Sorry for that. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Will Teachers Unions Kill Virtual Learning?

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

     

    The private sector...private schools...get their hands on money, if they succeed in educating kids. If private schools dont show results, they reform, or go out of business.
    Quite a concept, called accountability.

    The public sector and public schools fail...and they get more money, doubling down on failure. Reform? Forgeddaboutit.
    The greedy public teacher unions care first and foremost about political power,politics, and teacher pensions, not the kids.

     




    I went to Catholic Schools from K to 12   ... than I went to the University of Uncle Sams Misguided Children for almost 8 years ... my kids went to public school except for one who went to a Catholic High School ..... all three graduated from decents colleges and one has his Masters and the two girls are working on their Masters now ..... all three are doing well now .. my wife and I have no complaints about public schools ....

     

    Now what type of school did you graduate from public or private ..... I know you won't say public school because it doesn't enhance your argument ....

     



    I graduated from private school and did quite well.  My sisters graduated from public schools and did quite well.  Both my daughters graduated from public schools and are doing quite well.  My private school was better, but the public schools were more than adequate. If you have the right focus (kid and parents) and the right teachers (not computers) you can do quite well.  And yes, all those public schools were unionized as are most of the schools in Massachusetts.  And what about actual facts? Massachusetts in near the top in the WORLD for math and science http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2012/12/11/study-mass-graders-elite-math-science/k9S9XLvBseznrEpWmss1wK/story.html and those subjects are taught directly by humans and not virtually by computers.  But to idiot ideologues this is a "failure"...

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: Will Teachers Unions Kill Virtual Learning?

    Reubenhop how would a child learn any social skills if it wasn't for going to school .... they would end up like someone on BDC who isn't socially house broken .... sometimes I almost pity that person ....

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Will Teachers Unions Kill Virtual Learning?

    In response to Reubenhop's comment:

    Public education is not failing.  That is right wing mythology fostered by business groups that have little knowledge of how schools actually work.  Virtual education may have a role, but it cannot substitute for a dedicated teacher using a variety of tools (including technology) to engage students.  You need the human element to connect with young people.  They are kids not widgets.



    How can you possibly say public schools are not failing and explain how Obama won a second term?

    (just having fun with ya.)

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Will Teachers Unions Kill Virtual Learning?

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

     

    The private sector...private schools...get their hands on money, if they succeed in educating kids. If private schools dont show results, they reform, or go out of business.
    Quite a concept, called accountability.

    The public sector and public schools fail...and they get more money, doubling down on failure. Reform? Forgeddaboutit.
    The greedy public teacher unions care first and foremost about political power,politics, and teacher pensions, not the kids.

     




    I went to Catholic Schools from K to 12   ... than I went to the University of Uncle Sams Misguided Children for almost 8 years ... my kids went to public school except for one who went to a Catholic High School ..... all three graduated from decents colleges and one has his Masters and the two girls are working on their Masters now ..... all three are doing well now .. my wife and I have no complaints about public schools ....

     

    Now what type of school did you graduate from public or private ..... I know you won't say public school because it doesn't enhance your argument ....

     




    Let me ask you a question.  and it is related.  Do you want your kids to  live the "life of Julia" experience, or is that for other people's kids?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: Will Teachers Unions Kill Virtual Learning?

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to Reubenhop's comment:

     

    Public education is not failing.  That is right wing mythology fostered by business groups that have little knowledge of how schools actually work.  Virtual education may have a role, but it cannot substitute for a dedicated teacher using a variety of tools (including technology) to engage students.  You need the human element to connect with young people.  They are kids not widgets.

     



    How can you possibly say public schools are not failing and explain how Obama won a second term?

     

    (just having fun with ya.)




    skeeter if public schools were failing than the majority of voters would have fell for romney's sales pitch !!!

    btw skeeter did you go to a private or a public school ?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Will Teachers Unions Kill Virtual Learning?

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

     

    The private sector...private schools...get their hands on money, if they succeed in educating kids. If private schools dont show results, they reform, or go out of business.
    Quite a concept, called accountability.

    The public sector and public schools fail...and they get more money, doubling down on failure. Reform? Forgeddaboutit.
    The greedy public teacher unions care first and foremost about political power,politics, and teacher pensions, not the kids.

     




    I went to Catholic Schools from K to 12   ... than I went to the University of Uncle Sams Misguided Children for almost 8 years ... my kids went to public school except for one who went to a Catholic High School ..... all three graduated from decents colleges and one has his Masters and the two girls are working on their Masters now ..... all three are doing well now .. my wife and I have no complaints about public schools ....

     

    Now what type of school did you graduate from public or private ..... I know you won't say public school because it doesn't enhance your argument ....

     




    I had a somewhat different experience. I went to a Catholic School from 2nd through 8th grade. I was at the top of my 8th grade class. When I went to public high school the following year..I was woefully behind in math and science.  I was much more advanced than my public school counterparts in English and history though. Even though I cherished all my years at that school...one should not always assume that "private" is better.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Will Teachers Unions Kill Virtual Learning?

    All I know is majority of kids I come across don't know their a55 from their elbow when it comes to grammar. It's atrocious these days. Do they actually teach it? In ANY school (private or public)? Seriously.

    Even the "smart" kids don't know when to use "your" versus "you're", "their" versus "there", for examples. I coached a kid who went to Cornell, pretty good school right? His grammar was awful. High honors in math and science but reading his emails was excruciating.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: Will Teachers Unions Kill Virtual Learning?

    skeeter to live in a society where everyone has the chance to attain some success the Life of Julia is neccessary .

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Will Teachers Unions Kill Virtual Learning?

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    All I know is majority of kids I come across don't know their a55 from their elbow when it comes to grammar. It's atrocious these days. Do they actually teach it? In ANY school (private or public)? Seriously.

    Even the "smart" kids don't know when to use "your" versus "you're", "their" versus "there", for examples. I coached a kid who went to Cornell, pretty good school right? His grammar was awful. High honors in math and science but reading his emails was excruciating.

     




    Haha..listen..I am in the field and I agree with you to a point. Do you know the latest trend that public education is turning to? Integrated learning. You know what that is? It means all the subjects are intergrated with each other..which means essentially that grammar matters in math, science and history as much as it matters in ELA.  It's a sort of back to the basics...just like phonics. For over a decade educators were told by "specialists" and "consultants" to move away from phonics because it was outdated and archaic. Now...educators have moved en masse back to phonics. Why...because it worked. Sometimes I think the best thing that could happen to education is to get rid oof some of these high priced..self proclaimed "experts" and just let teacher do what they do best.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Will Teachers Unions Kill Virtual Learning?

    Yeah, who needs impersonal computers? After all, they cant join the union , pay dues and get pensions and vote and work for Democrats! And heck, it is not like graduates will have to work with computers in their jobs after graduation, right?

    Reform? Who needs that ? Just keep spending more and more and more, with no results to show for it...

    Great that some kids do well after graduating public schools... but our compassionate liberals seem to only care about their own kids...

    How good are our public schools?

    Um, here are some facts and interesting quotes. Don’t look at them if you really need to believe that public school in the United States works.
    ______

    The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development placed the United States 18th among the 36 nations examined, USA Today reported .

    In South Korea, 93 percent of high school students graduate on time compared with the United States where 75 percent receive their diplomas. South Korea was number one in this statistic.

    U.S. students finished 15th in reading, 19th in math and 14th in science – and in a study that only ranked 31 nations.

    The High School graduation rate in the U.S. is below 50% in many cities. Seventeen of the nation’s 50 largest cities had High School graduation rates lower than 50 percent, with the lowest graduation rates reported in Detroit, Indianapolis and Cleveland.

    Nationally, 1.2 million students dropped out of H.S. In Detroit’s public schools, 24.9 percent of the students graduated from high school, while 30.5 percent graduated in Indianapolis Public Schools and 34.1 percent received diplomas in the Cleveland Municipal City School District...

    Shouldn’t we be firing our public schools about now?

    If I ran a car company and charged lots of money for my cars, and only about ½ the cars I sold actually started when the ignition was turned – how long would I be in business? Would you buy a car from me? Would I have the right to insist that my business must survive? Would I be right to demand more of your money to make certain that it did?

    No. I’d be out looking for work and rightly so.

    Come on, billions of dollars are being spent on public education in America!

    Where does the money really go?

    Well, a lot of it goes into teacher’s pay, teacher’s pensions, teachers unions. But teachers don’t get it all. Often inefficient and ineffective administrators get a large piece of the educational pork pie, too.

     Inefficient and ineffective, isn’t that a tad cruel? Well, again, if I owned a car company etc… In other industries if you are unproductive or unsuccessful, you get yourself fired. If the people working under you underperform or simply fail, they may get the sack, but you certainly shall be fired.

    Not in our public schools! Firing an administrator is, if anything, more difficult than firing a teacher. In our public schools, incompetence is often rewarded. This must be true or we simply would not have the current miasma of incompetence.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Will Teachers Unions Kill Virtual Learning?

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    Yeah, who needs impersonal computers? After all, they cant join the union , pay dues and get pensions and vote and work for Democrats! And heck, it is not like graduates will have to work with computers in their jobs after graduation, right?

    Reform? Who needs that ? Just keep spending more and more and more, with no results to show for it...

    Great that some kids do well after graduating public schools... but our compassionate liberals seem to only care about their own kids...

    How good are our public schools?

    Um, here are some facts and interesting quotes. Don’t look at them if you really need to believe that public school in the United States works.
    ______

    The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development placed the United States 18th among the 36 nations examined, USA Today reported .

    In South Korea, 93 percent of high school students graduate on time compared with the United States where 75 percent receive their diplomas. South Korea was number one in this statistic.

    U.S. students finished 15th in reading, 19th in math and 14th in science – and in a study that only ranked 31 nations.

    The High School graduation rate in the U.S. is below 50% in many cities. Seventeen of the nation’s 50 largest cities had High School graduation rates lower than 50 percent, with the lowest graduation rates reported in Detroit, Indianapolis and Cleveland.

    Nationally, 1.2 million students dropped out of H.S. In Detroit’s public schools, 24.9 percent of the students graduated from high school, while 30.5 percent graduated in Indianapolis Public Schools and 34.1 percent received diplomas in the Cleveland Municipal City School District...

    Shouldn’t we be firing our public schools about now?

    If I ran a car company and charged lots of money for my cars, and only about ½ the cars I sold actually started when the ignition was turned – how long would I be in business? Would you buy a car from me? Would I have the right to insist that my business must survive? Would I be right to demand more of your money to make certain that it did?

    No. I’d be out looking for work and rightly so.

    Come on, billions of dollars are being spent on public education in America!

    Where does the money really go?

    Well, a lot of it goes into teacher’s pay, teacher’s pensions, teachers unions. But teachers don’t get it all. Often inefficient and ineffective administrators get a large piece of the educational pork pie, too.

     Inefficient and ineffective, isn’t that a tad cruel? Well, again, if I owned a car company etc… In other industries if you are unproductive or unsuccessful, you get yourself fired. If the people working under you underperform or simply fail, they may get the sack, but you certainly shall be fired.

    Not in our public schools! Firing an administrator is, if anything, more difficult than firing a teacher. In our public schools, incompetence is often rewarded. This must be true or we simply would not have the current miasma of incompetence.




    I find it interesting CLC that you keep copying and pasting talking points..yet you have remained unable to anwer my ( and others) simple...basic questions on the subject. It kind of makes me think that you are just another troll.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Will Teachers Unions Kill Virtual Learning?

    In response to Reubenhop's comment:

    Massachusetts in near the top in the WORLD for math and science http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2012/12/11/study-mass-graders-elite-math-science/k9S9XLvBseznrEpWmss1wK/story.html and those subjects are taught directly by humans and not virtually by computers.  But to idiot ideologues this is a "failure"...

     



    From the same article:

    "The U.S. as a whole was ninth overall in math and 10th overall in science"

    The US now gets the "participation" trophy, congrats......but this is "success" to today's reform-averse dinosaur educators, comfortable to sit around and wait for their fat pensions....

    And again, use of computers are critical skills for kids to learn...and online learning itself is a way to improve education and results...but of course, for the teacher unions, it is a threat to their monopoly....they fight reform tooth and nail.

    This is a list from the risk-averse US Dept of Education, of benefits of using online learning tools

    Broadening access

    in ways that dramatically reduce the cost of providing access to quality educational resources and experiences, particularly for students in remote locations or other situations where challenges such as low student enrollments make the traditional school model impractical;

    2)

    Engaging students in active learning with instructional materials and access to a wealth of resources that can facilitate the adoption of research-based principles and best practices from the learning sciences, an application that might improve student outcomes without substantially increasing costs;

    3)

    Individualizing and differentiating instruction based on student performance on diagnostic assessments and preferred pace of learning, thereby improving the efficiency with which students move through a learning progression;

    4)

    Personalizing learning by building on student interests, which can result in increased student motivation, time on task and ultimately better learning outcomes;

    5)

    Making better use of teacher and student time by automating routine tasks and enabling teacher time to focus on high-value activities;

    6)

    Increasing the rate of student learning by increasing motivation and helping students grasp concepts and demonstrate competency more efficiently;

    7)

    Reducing school-based facilities costs by leveraging home and community spaces in addition to traditional school buildings;

    8)

    Reducing salary costs by transferring some educational activities to computers, by increasing teacher-student ratios or by otherwise redesigning processes that allow for more effective use of teacher time; and

    9)

    Realizing opportunities for economies of scale through reuse of materials and their large-scale distribution.

     
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