Wow, I thought Europe was supposed to be advanced and more tolerant!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Wow, I thought Europe was supposed to be advanced and more tolerant!

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/23/world/europe/in-france-opposition-to-same-sex-marriage-bill-grows.html?partner=MYWAY&ei=5065&_r=1&

    The final vote in the legislature is expected to be quick, since the Socialist government of President François Hollande has a safe voting majority. But there has been an intensification of opposition to the bill in the past few weeks, as Mr. Hollande’s critics have used demonstrations against it as a way of attacking the president himself.

    Though hesitant at first, since polls show a majority of the French favor equal rights for same-sex couples, the center-right Union for a Popular Movement has embraced the demonstrations opposing the bill. The unity around the issue has helped paper over the sharp divisions and rivalries in the party, which is largely rudderless as its leader, former President Nicolas Sarkozy, weighs returning to active politics.

    At the margins, the demonstrations have also become more violent and homophobic, with a series of nightly demonstrations last week around Parliament that resulted in clashes with riot police officers and a number of arrests. Even opposition leaders have bemoaned the way harder-right groups have infiltrated the demonstrations, and there has been a small surge in violence against gay men and lesbians, with some beatings and angry, offensive words on social media.

    Two weeks ago, a Dutch-born man walking with his partner in Paris was beaten up. The man, Wilfred de Bruijn, posted a photograph of his bloodied face on his Facebook page, calling it “the face of Homophobia.” It has been shared thousands of times. Last week, two gay bars, in Bordeaux and Lille, were attacked, and a same-sex couple was attacked Saturday in Nice outside a gay nightclub.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: Wow, I thought Europe was supposed to be advanced and more tolerant!

    Well there are 8 European countries that allow gay marriage.  Finland is advancing a bill to do the same and in France (the subject of the above article) the law will be passed easily.  Ireland has civil unions, but is looking to go all the way with same sex marriage very soon.  The UK has civil unions and looks to be moving towards same sex marriage in the next couple of years.  Just because some knuckleheads in one country are having a tizzy over the upcoming changes doesn't change the fact that the Europeans are far out ahead of dozens of other countries (including the US) when it comes to marriage equality. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Wow, I thought Europe was supposed to be advanced and more tolerant!

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:

    Well there are 8 European countries that allow gay marriage.  Finland is advancing a bill to do the same and in France (the subject of the above article) the law will be passed easily.  Ireland has civil unions, but is looking to go all the way with same sex marriage very soon.  The UK has civil unions and looks to be moving towards same sex marriage in the next couple of years.  Just because some knuckleheads in one country are having a tizzy over the upcoming changes doesn't change the fact that the Europeans are far out ahead of dozens of other countries (including the US) when it comes to marriage equality. 



    What defines "looking" to be moving towards same sex marriage?

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: Wow, I thought Europe was supposed to be advanced and more tolerant!

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:

     

    Well there are 8 European countries that allow gay marriage.  Finland is advancing a bill to do the same and in France (the subject of the above article) the law will be passed easily.  Ireland has civil unions, but is looking to go all the way with same sex marriage very soon.  The UK has civil unions and looks to be moving towards same sex marriage in the next couple of years.  Just because some knuckleheads in one country are having a tizzy over the upcoming changes doesn't change the fact that the Europeans are far out ahead of dozens of other countries (including the US) when it comes to marriage equality. 

     



    What defines "looking" to be moving towards same sex marriage?

     

     




    There is proposed legislation that is in various stages of advancing through their respective legislative processes

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Wow, I thought Europe was supposed to be advanced and more tolerant!

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:

     

    Well there are 8 European countries that allow gay marriage.  Finland is advancing a bill to do the same and in France (the subject of the above article) the law will be passed easily.  Ireland has civil unions, but is looking to go all the way with same sex marriage very soon.  The UK has civil unions and looks to be moving towards same sex marriage in the next couple of years.  Just because some knuckleheads in one country are having a tizzy over the upcoming changes doesn't change the fact that the Europeans are far out ahead of dozens of other countries (including the US) when it comes to marriage equality. 

     



    What defines "looking" to be moving towards same sex marriage?

     

     

     




     

    There is proposed legislation that is in various stages of advancing through their respective legislative processes



    Same here

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Wow, I thought Europe was supposed to be advanced and more tolerant!

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:

    Well there are 8 European countries that allow gay marriage.  Finland is advancing a bill to do the same and in France (the subject of the above article) the law will be passed easily.  Ireland has civil unions, but is looking to go all the way with same sex marriage very soon.  The UK has civil unions and looks to be moving towards same sex marriage in the next couple of years.  Just because some knuckleheads in one country are having a tizzy over the upcoming changes doesn't change the fact that the Europeans are far out ahead of dozens of other countries (including the US) when it comes to marriage equality. 



    They are having violent protests!!!!!

    We are having civil debate. that does NOT put them ahead of us on tolerance in my opinion.

    Most people against gay marriage do not "hate gays" or wish them harm they just have different beliefs on the sanctity of marriage. HUGE DIFFERENCE in my opinion.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: Wow, I thought Europe was supposed to be advanced and more tolerant!

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:

     

    Well there are 8 European countries that allow gay marriage.  Finland is advancing a bill to do the same and in France (the subject of the above article) the law will be passed easily.  Ireland has civil unions, but is looking to go all the way with same sex marriage very soon.  The UK has civil unions and looks to be moving towards same sex marriage in the next couple of years.  Just because some knuckleheads in one country are having a tizzy over the upcoming changes doesn't change the fact that the Europeans are far out ahead of dozens of other countries (including the US) when it comes to marriage equality. 

     



    What defines "looking" to be moving towards same sex marriage?

     

     

     




     

    There is proposed legislation that is in various stages of advancing through their respective legislative processes

     



    Same here

     




    I am simply pointing out that the OP's characterization of Europe as far as the thread title is concerned doesn't mesh with reality.  And of the places I have noted are considering full same sex marriage, two of the countries already have civil unions.  So again, we are behind the curve in terms of marriage inequality. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Wow, I thought Europe was supposed to be advanced and more tolerant!

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:

     Just because some knuckleheads in one country are having a tizzy over the upcoming changes doesn't change the fact that the Europeans are far out ahead of dozens of other countries (including the US) when it comes to marriage equality. 




    You mean tens of thousands of knuckleheads and since when is a "tizzy" defined as physical assaults and death threats?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Wow, I thought Europe was supposed to be advanced and more tolerant!

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    I am simply pointing out that the OP's characterization of Europe as far as the thread title is concerned doesn't mesh with reality.  And of the places I have noted are considering full same sex marriage, two of the countries already have civil unions.  So again, we are behind the curve in terms of marriage inequality. 




    You do know the SCOTUS just heard arguments on gay marrige right?

    So, how far behind are we in our legal process again?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: Wow, I thought Europe was supposed to be advanced and more tolerant!

    In response to tvoter's comment:



    You do know the SCOTUS just heard arguments on gay marrige right?

     

    So, how far behind are we in our legal process again?



    I do, and those hearings, come 12 years after the first European country began allowing same sex marriages (Netherlands in 2001).  Denmark had allowed for civil unions starting in 1989 but as of 2012 recognize same sex marriages.  So pretty far behind. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Wow, I thought Europe was supposed to be advanced and more tolerant!

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    You do know the SCOTUS just heard arguments on gay marrige right?

     

    So, how far behind are we in our legal process again?

    [QUOTE]

    I do, and those hearings, come 12 years after the first European country began allowing same sex marriages (Netherlands in 2001).  Denmark had allowed for civil unions starting in 1989 but as of 2012 recognize same sex marriages.  So pretty far behind. 




    So for your argument "that America is behind Europe" you state that the Netherlands and Denmark represent Europe as a whole?

     That's a stretch just to make the USA look bad.

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: Wow, I thought Europe was supposed to be advanced and more tolerant!

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:

     

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    You do know the SCOTUS just heard arguments on gay marrige right?

     

    So, how far behind are we in our legal process again?

    [QUOTE]

    I do, and those hearings, come 12 years after the first European country began allowing same sex marriages (Netherlands in 2001).  Denmark had allowed for civil unions starting in 1989 but as of 2012 recognize same sex marriages.  So pretty far behind. 

     




    So for your argument "that America is behind Europe" you state that the Netherlands and Denmark represent Europe as a whole?

     

     That's a stretch just to make the USA look bad.




    You are arguing that because people in France, one country, are protesting that they represent Europe as a whole.  So lets redirect that pointer finger right back at yourself.

    I am pointing out the absurdity of your argument and noting that despite the protests the Europeans have been out front on this issue, broadly speaking, for years now.  That's not to make America look bad, its just a fact

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Wow, I thought Europe was supposed to be advanced and more tolerant!

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     



    You do know the SCOTUS just heard arguments on gay marrige right?

     

    So, how far behind are we in our legal process again?

     



    I do, and those hearings, come 12 years after the first European country began allowing same sex marriages (Netherlands in 2001).  Denmark had allowed for civil unions starting in 1989but as of 2012 recognize same sex marriages.  So pretty far behind. 

     



    Wait...you mention one country that has same sex marriage and another one that JUST recognized same sex marriage and that to you is "far behind"?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Wow, I thought Europe was supposed to be advanced and more tolerant!

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:

    I am pointing out the absurdity of your argument and noting that despite the protests the Europeans have been out front on this issue, broadly speaking, for years now.  That's not to make America look bad, its just a fact




    Tens of thousands of protesters coupled with violence and threats of violence in no way indicates they are ahed of us in regards to tolerance.

    There is a real difference in civil protest and violence!

     

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Wow, I thought Europe was supposed to be advanced and more tolerant!

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     Well there are knucklehead right-wing conservatives in every country, nothing you can do about that. 



    I agree just as there are radical leftist in every country but, the debate was about the Europe being or not being more tolerant that the USA.

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Wow, I thought Europe was supposed to be advanced and more tolerant!

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

     That's a stretch just to make the USA look bad.



    The USA does that just fine on its own, thanks.  We don't need help from Europe waiting for our next batch of silliness, which is probably scheduled very soon.

     

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Wow, I thought Europe was supposed to be advanced and more tolerant!

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:

     

    I am pointing out the absurdity of your argument and noting that despite the protests the Europeans have been out front on this issue, broadly speaking, for years now.  That's not to make America look bad, its just a fact

     




    Tens of thousands of protesters coupled with violence and threats of violence in no way indicates they are ahed of us in regards to tolerance.

     

    There is a real difference in civil protest and violence!

     



    Is civil protest a measure of tolerance?

    It would seem the society that allows such large protests is an example of free speech.

    Now, if you said Europe is less politically correct, that might be worth arguing about.

    The OP though...meh.

     

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Wow, I thought Europe was supposed to be advanced and more tolerant!

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    Is civil protest a measure of tolerance?

    It would seem the society that allows such large protests is an example of free speech.

    Now, if you said Europe is less politically correct, that might be worth arguing about.

    The OP though...meh. 



    Protest are absolutely free speech but, not assault and death threats as has been pointed out here many times but, ignored by you!

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Wow, I thought Europe was supposed to be advanced and more tolerant!

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    Is civil protest a measure of tolerance?

    It would seem the society that allows such large protests is an example of free speech.

    Now, if you said Europe is less politically correct, that might be worth arguing about.

    The OP though...meh. 

     


    Protest are absolutely free speech but, not assault and death threats as has been pointed out here many times but, ignored by you!

     



    OK, so you're really only talking about violence and death threats...NOT civil protest.  Got it.

    Maybe you should fix your OP, then.

    As it happens, the law passed in France, so the point is moot.  Either way, the majority are more tolerant and advanced than you who does not 'believe' in marriage equality.

    And as has been said here, there is conservativist opposition to marriage equality everywhere...most notably among islam-centric and devoutly religious peoples.

     

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Wow, I thought Europe was supposed to be advanced and more tolerant!

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     


    Protest are absolutely free speech but, not assault and death threats as has been pointed out here many times but, ignored by you!

    [QUOTE]


    OK, so you're really only talking about violence and death threats...NOT civil protest.  Got it.



    No I was refering to the violent protest is France and how we have many protest but, most are very civil, with the exception of perhaps the OWS freaks 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Wow, I thought Europe was supposed to be advanced and more tolerant!

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    I guess the difference is we're not all dying to shout "Clinton! But CLINTON!"



    Of course not, but that's only because he's your guy. 

     
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