Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:

    In response to miscricket's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I don't know. At the end of the day.. I just don't know how the "stand your Ground" can be a valid defense for Zimmerman. He disregarded every single thing he was trained to do as a neighborhood watch person and followed Martin. Everything that happened after that is circumstantial but I can't get away from the fact that in the beginning Zimmerman was the aggressor.

    " Above all..be the heroine in your life..not the victim" Nora Ephron

     




    If Zimmerman is using Florida " the Stand Your Ground Defense " wasn't Martin entilted to use that same Defense ?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Was Martin being wailed on mma style by Zimmerman? If so, you are correct.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/

    How many people care about the evidence?

    How many are just waiting to call it unjust and/or racism when Zimmerman is aquitted?

     

     



    Seriously, though - you want Zimmerman to get off completely?  No matter what other evidence you see, you know Zimmerman started the chain of events in motion, and that Zimmerman fired the fatal shot.  It's not like he was a hero or even a helpless bystander.  One way or another, a 17-year-old is dead because if this man.

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The only problem is that you don't assign any of the blame to Martin.  It takes two to tango.  It isn't like Zimmerman drew a bead on him from 50 feet and popped him.  Still, we don't know and wil never know what caused the fight.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    OK - if it takes two to tango, and Martin's punishment was death, then what is a fair punishment for Zimmerman?  

    If Zimmerman had minded his own business that night, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had followed the instructions of the dispatcher and returned to his house, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had not left his car with a gun, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had shot Martin in the leg instead of the chest, Martin would still be alive.  

    I understand Zimmerman might not be a murderer, but I don't understand completely absolving him of the terrible decisions he made that resulted in the death of a 17-year-old.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

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    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

     

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    http://www.usatoday.com/news/

    How many people care about the evidence?

    How many are just waiting to call it unjust and/or racism when Zimmerman is aquitted?

     

     

     



    Seriously, though - you want Zimmerman to get off completely?  No matter what other evidence you see, you know Zimmerman started the chain of events in motion, and that Zimmerman fired the fatal shot.  It's not like he was a hero or even a helpless bystander.  One way or another, a 17-year-old is dead because if this man.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The only problem is that you don't assign any of the blame to Martin.  It takes two to tango.  It isn't like Zimmerman drew a bead on him from 50 feet and popped him.  Still, we don't know and wil never know what caused the fight.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

     

    OK - if it takes two to tango, and Martin's punishment was death, then what is a fair punishment for Zimmerman?  

    If Zimmerman had minded his own business that night, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had followed the instructions of the dispatcher and returned to his house, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had not left his car with a gun, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had shot Martin in the leg instead of the chest, Martin would still be alive.  

    I understand Zimmerman might not be a murderer, but I don't understand completely absolving him of the terrible decisions he made that resulted in the death of a 17-year-old.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think the evidence shows that Zimmerman made terrible decisions.  He might have, but the evidence to show that is lacking.  That he got out of his car to check the cross street does not mean that he was following Martin.  I could just as easily say Martin made terrible decisions to attack Zimmerman.

    Look, it is simple, the evidence does not support your assertions.  

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

     

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    " Zimmerman claims to have shot Martuin while the youth was bashing his head into the pavement" 

    Having sustained less serious head injuries in football (with a helmet) and wrestling (against a hard crappy old mat), I have to raise my eyebrow at it. You get your bell wrung, you're wobbly, confused, etc.

    ^^ OPINION

    You get your head repeatedly "bashed" into concrete? Lucky if you wake up. 

    ^^ NOT A MEDICAL FACT BUT AN OPINION

    He was bleeding, sure, but head wounds bleed severely compared to the size of any cuts. I'd expect some serious harm if his head was repeatedly being smashed into the pavement.

    Again your opinion

     Maybe he fell down and scraped his head on one impact. Repeatedly bashed? That's a hospital stay, if you live.

    ^^^ same same




     Nice opinion but, the evidence supports his claim that his head was being hit against the concrete! Also, Zimmermans back was wet and grassy, Treyvons knees were wet and grassy.


    [/QUOTE]


     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    btw, you have swallowed the media story since day 1! So, you opinion isnt exactly trustwrthy!



    Thanks!

     

     

    "I know you are but what am I?"

     

    lol..  

    [/QUOTE]


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    I think this was the right ruling by the judge.

     

    SANFORD, Fla. (AP) -- A Florida judge ruled Wednesday that Trayvon Martin's cellphone text messages about fighting and a defense animation depicting the struggle between Martin and George Zimmerman won't be introduced as evidence at Zimmerman's trial.

    Judge Debra Nelson made her ruling a day after she heard arguments on the matter. Prosecutors had claimed the texts were irrelevant and taken out of context. They also objected to the computer animation, questioning its accuracy and saying it would mislead jurors.

    "This is a murder trial. This isn't `Casablanca.' This isn't `Iron Man,'" prosecutor Richard Mantei said.

    The judge seemed concerned about the animation's accuracy during arguments. While the animation can't be introduced as evidence that can be reviewed by jurors during their deliberations, defense attorneys may be able to use it during closing arguments, she ruled.

    "To have an animation go back into jury room that they can play over and over again gives a certain weight to something that this court isn't exactly certain comports with the evidence presented at trial," Nelson said Wednesday night.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

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    http://www.usatoday.com/news/

    How many people care about the evidence?

    How many are just waiting to call it unjust and/or racism when Zimmerman is aquitted?

     

     

     

     



    Seriously, though - you want Zimmerman to get off completely?  No matter what other evidence you see, you know Zimmerman started the chain of events in motion, and that Zimmerman fired the fatal shot.  It's not like he was a hero or even a helpless bystander.  One way or another, a 17-year-old is dead because if this man.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The only problem is that you don't assign any of the blame to Martin.  It takes two to tango.  It isn't like Zimmerman drew a bead on him from 50 feet and popped him.  Still, we don't know and wil never know what caused the fight.

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

     

     

    OK - if it takes two to tango, and Martin's punishment was death, then what is a fair punishment for Zimmerman?  

    If Zimmerman had minded his own business that night, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had followed the instructions of the dispatcher and returned to his house, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had not left his car with a gun, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had shot Martin in the leg instead of the chest, Martin would still be alive.  

    I understand Zimmerman might not be a murderer, but I don't understand completely absolving him of the terrible decisions he made that resulted in the death of a 17-year-old.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think the evidence shows that Zimmerman made terrible decisions.  He might have, but the evidence to show that is lacking.  That he got out of his car to check the cross street does not mean that he was following Martin.  I could just as easily say Martin made terrible decisions to attack Zimmerman.

     

    Look, it is simple, the evidence does not support your assertions.  

    [/QUOTE]

    We know Zimmerman was following Martin - he said so on the 911 call.  If nothing else, Zimmerman is guilty of menacing, which means he cannot then claim self-defense, and is at least guilty of manslaughter, which all in all feels like the best description of what happened.  I don't think he intended to murder Martin, but he made a series of very bad decisions that eventually led to the boy's death.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

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    http://www.usatoday.com/news/

    How many people care about the evidence?

    How many are just waiting to call it unjust and/or racism when Zimmerman is aquitted?

     

     

     

     

     

     



    Seriously, though - you want Zimmerman to get off completely?  No matter what other evidence you see, you know Zimmerman started the chain of events in motion, and that Zimmerman fired the fatal shot.  It's not like he was a hero or even a helpless bystander.  One way or another, a 17-year-old is dead because if this man.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    The only problem is that you don't assign any of the blame to Martin.  It takes two to tango.  It isn't like Zimmerman drew a bead on him from 50 feet and popped him.  Still, we don't know and wil never know what caused the fight.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



     

     

     

     

    OK - if it takes two to tango, and Martin's punishment was death, then what is a fair punishment for Zimmerman?  

    If Zimmerman had minded his own business that night, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had followed the instructions of the dispatcher and returned to his house, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had not left his car with a gun, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had shot Martin in the leg instead of the chest, Martin would still be alive.  

    I understand Zimmerman might not be a murderer, but I don't understand completely absolving him of the terrible decisions he made that resulted in the death of a 17-year-old.

     

     

     

     



    I don't think the evidence shows that Zimmerman made terrible decisions.  He might have, but the evidence to show that is lacking.  That he got out of his car to check the cross street does not mean that he was following Martin.  I could just as easily say Martin made terrible decisions to attack Zimmerman.

     

     

     

    Look, it is simple, the evidence does not support your assertions.  

     

     



     

     

    We know Zimmerman was following Martin - he said so on the 911 call.  If nothing else, Zimmerman is guilty of menacing, which means he cannot then claim self-defense, and is at least guilty of manslaughter, which all in all feels like the best description of what happened.  I don't think he intended to murder Martin, but he made a series of very bad decisions that eventually led to the boy's death.

     



    Not true.  Read the transcript. 

     

     http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

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    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/

    How many people care about the evidence?

    How many are just waiting to call it unjust and/or racism when Zimmerman is aquitted?

     

     

     

     

     

     



    Seriously, though - you want Zimmerman to get off completely?  No matter what other evidence you see, you know Zimmerman started the chain of events in motion, and that Zimmerman fired the fatal shot.  It's not like he was a hero or even a helpless bystander.  One way or another, a 17-year-old is dead because if this man.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    The only problem is that you don't assign any of the blame to Martin.  It takes two to tango.  It isn't like Zimmerman drew a bead on him from 50 feet and popped him.  Still, we don't know and wil never know what caused the fight.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     


     

     

     

     

    OK - if it takes two to tango, and Martin's punishment was death, then what is a fair punishment for Zimmerman?  

    If Zimmerman had minded his own business that night, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had followed the instructions of the dispatcher and returned to his house, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had not left his car with a gun, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had shot Martin in the leg instead of the chest, Martin would still be alive.  

    I understand Zimmerman might not be a murderer, but I don't understand completely absolving him of the terrible decisions he made that resulted in the death of a 17-year-old.

     

     

     

     



    I don't think the evidence shows that Zimmerman made terrible decisions.  He might have, but the evidence to show that is lacking.  That he got out of his car to check the cross street does not mean that he was following Martin.  I could just as easily say Martin made terrible decisions to attack Zimmerman.

     

     

     

    Look, it is simple, the evidence does not support your assertions.  

     

     


     

     

    We know Zimmerman was following Martin - he said so on the 911 call.  If nothing else, Zimmerman is guilty of menacing, which means he cannot then claim self-defense, and is at least guilty of manslaughter, which all in all feels like the best description of what happened.  I don't think he intended to murder Martin, but he made a series of very bad decisions that eventually led to the boy's death.

     



    Not true.  Read the transcript. 

     

     http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html




    Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. [expletive] he's running. 

    Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?

    ...

    Dispatcher: Are you following him?

    Zimmerman: Yeah

    Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.

    Zimmerman: Ok
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. [expletive] he's running.

    Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?

    ...

    Dispatcher: Are you following him?

    Zimmerman: Yeah

    Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.

    Zimmerman: Ok

     




    I think this is where BDC conservatives say "BOOM!"

     

    [/QUOTE]

    It was stated under oath by the police and the dispatchers supervisor that the dispatcher has no authority to tell him what to do.

    He did not follow him after that conversation but, got out of his car a while later after losing Treyvon between houses to look for the police cruiser he had called for when he ran into him again and was allegedly attacked.

    In hindsight I wish he would have stayed in his car.

    Watch the re-enactment the day after or keep up with the trial events at least if, you are going to "boom" lol

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

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    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/

    How many people care about the evidence?

    How many are just waiting to call it unjust and/or racism when Zimmerman is aquitted?

     

     

     

     

     

     



    Seriously, though - you want Zimmerman to get off completely?  No matter what other evidence you see, you know Zimmerman started the chain of events in motion, and that Zimmerman fired the fatal shot.  It's not like he was a hero or even a helpless bystander.  One way or another, a 17-year-old is dead because if this man.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    The only problem is that you don't assign any of the blame to Martin.  It takes two to tango.  It isn't like Zimmerman drew a bead on him from 50 feet and popped him.  Still, we don't know and wil never know what caused the fight.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    OK - if it takes two to tango, and Martin's punishment was death, then what is a fair punishment for Zimmerman?  

    If Zimmerman had minded his own business that night, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had followed the instructions of the dispatcher and returned to his house, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had not left his car with a gun, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had shot Martin in the leg instead of the chest, Martin would still be alive.  

    I understand Zimmerman might not be a murderer, but I don't understand completely absolving him of the terrible decisions he made that resulted in the death of a 17-year-old.

     

     

     

     



    I don't think the evidence shows that Zimmerman made terrible decisions.  He might have, but the evidence to show that is lacking.  That he got out of his car to check the cross street does not mean that he was following Martin.  I could just as easily say Martin made terrible decisions to attack Zimmerman.

     

     

     

    Look, it is simple, the evidence does not support your assertions.  

     

     

     

     

     

    We know Zimmerman was following Martin - he said so on the 911 call.  If nothing else, Zimmerman is guilty of menacing, which means he cannot then claim self-defense, and is at least guilty of manslaughter, which all in all feels like the best description of what happened.  I don't think he intended to murder Martin, but he made a series of very bad decisions that eventually led to the boy's death.

     



    Not true.  Read the transcript. 

     

     http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

     

     




     

     

    Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. [expletive] he's running. 

    Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?

    ...

    Dispatcher: Are you following him?

    Zimmerman: Yeah

    Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.

    Zimmerman: Ok

     



    So, why did you stop there with the transcript?

     

    it goes on for a few minutes, with Zimmerman looking to meet the police wwhen they arrive.

    if anything, the transcript supports the Martin jumping out of the bushers and attacking

    zimmerman, as Zimmerman states not only that he lost him, but that he was looking to meet

    the police who were en route.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bald-predictions. Show bald-predictions's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

     

    I think the jury will be instructed to consider manslaughter.  I also think GZ is going to walk out of that courtroom a free man.  Murder 2 was a joke and the defense has done enough on self-defense to acquit of manslaughter.  

    Jury will acquit on all charges. Case closed. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. [expletive] he's running.

    Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?

    ...

    Dispatcher: Are you following him?

    Zimmerman: Yeah

    Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.

    Zimmerman: Ok

     




    I think this is where BDC conservatives say "BOOM!"

     



    It was stated under oath by the police and the dispatchers supervisor that the dispatcher has no authority to tell him what to do.

    He did not follow him after that conversation but, got out of his car a while later after losing Treyvon between houses to look for the police cruiser he had called for when he ran into him again and was allegedly attacked.

    In hindsight I wish he would have stayed in his car.

    Watch the re-enactment the day after or keep up with the trial events at least if, you are going to "boom" lol

    [/QUOTE]


    Martin was running from Zimmerman.  Zimmerman chased after him, but the dispatcher told him not to so he got back in his truck.  Later that night he got out of his truck (armed) to look at a street sign, and just happened to run into Martin, who then attacked him, so he shot him in self-defense.

    Doesn't that sound ridiculous?  

    Why do you want this guy to be acquitted so badly?  Just to stick it to the media who tried to exploit the race angle?

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

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    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/

    How many people care about the evidence?

    How many are just waiting to call it unjust and/or racism when Zimmerman is aquitted?

     

     

     

     

     

     



    Seriously, though - you want Zimmerman to get off completely?  No matter what other evidence you see, you know Zimmerman started the chain of events in motion, and that Zimmerman fired the fatal shot.  It's not like he was a hero or even a helpless bystander.  One way or another, a 17-year-old is dead because if this man.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    The only problem is that you don't assign any of the blame to Martin.  It takes two to tango.  It isn't like Zimmerman drew a bead on him from 50 feet and popped him.  Still, we don't know and wil never know what caused the fight.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    OK - if it takes two to tango, and Martin's punishment was death, then what is a fair punishment for Zimmerman?  

    If Zimmerman had minded his own business that night, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had followed the instructions of the dispatcher and returned to his house, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had not left his car with a gun, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had shot Martin in the leg instead of the chest, Martin would still be alive.  

    I understand Zimmerman might not be a murderer, but I don't understand completely absolving him of the terrible decisions he made that resulted in the death of a 17-year-old.

     

     

     

     



    I don't think the evidence shows that Zimmerman made terrible decisions.  He might have, but the evidence to show that is lacking.  That he got out of his car to check the cross street does not mean that he was following Martin.  I could just as easily say Martin made terrible decisions to attack Zimmerman.

     

     

     

    Look, it is simple, the evidence does not support your assertions.  

     

     

     

     

     

    We know Zimmerman was following Martin - he said so on the 911 call.  If nothing else, Zimmerman is guilty of menacing, which means he cannot then claim self-defense, and is at least guilty of manslaughter, which all in all feels like the best description of what happened.  I don't think he intended to murder Martin, but he made a series of very bad decisions that eventually led to the boy's death.

     



    Not true.  Read the transcript. 

     

     http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

     

     



     

     

    Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. [expletive] he's running. 

    Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?

    ...

    Dispatcher: Are you following him?

    Zimmerman: Yeah

    Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.

    Zimmerman: Ok

     



    So, why did you stop there with the transcript?

     

    it goes on for a few minutes, with Zimmerman looking to meet the police wwhen they arrive.

    if anything, the transcript supports the Martin jumping out of the bushers and attacking

    zimmerman, as Zimmerman states not only that he lost him, but that he was looking to meet

    the police who were en route.




    Would you please post the portion of the transcript that supports the idea that Martin jumped out the bushes and attacked Zimmerman?

    The transcript actually shows that the dispatcher was trying to get Zimmerman to return home, telling him the police would meet him in front of his house.  Zimmerman instead asked the dispatcher to have the police call him when they arrived and he would tell them where he was.  To me, that suggests he was going to continue following Martin, after already chasing him down an alley on a rainy night, waving his gun.  

    Dispatcher: What's your apartment number? 

    Zimmerman: It's a home it's 1950, oh crap I don't want to give it all out, I don't know where this kid is.

    Dispatcher: Okay do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then?

    Zimmerman: Yeah that's fine.

    Dispatcher: Alright George, I'll let them know to meet you around there okay?

    Zimmerman: Actually could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at?

    Dispatcher: Okay, yeah that's no problem.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    So, why did you stop there with the transcript?

     



    Probably because it shows you were wrong to say it was not true that Zimmerman followed Martin.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    No, it doesn't.  Though the transcript show that earlier on Zimmerman was following Travon, he broke it off as police requested, lost sight of him, and headed off to meet the police.

    What we do have is testimony that Travon then attacked Zimmerman.

     

    *Boom*

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/

    How many people care about the evidence?

    How many are just waiting to call it unjust and/or racism when Zimmerman is aquitted?

     

     

     

     

     

     



    Seriously, though - you want Zimmerman to get off completely?  No matter what other evidence you see, you know Zimmerman started the chain of events in motion, and that Zimmerman fired the fatal shot.  It's not like he was a hero or even a helpless bystander.  One way or another, a 17-year-old is dead because if this man.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    The only problem is that you don't assign any of the blame to Martin.  It takes two to tango.  It isn't like Zimmerman drew a bead on him from 50 feet and popped him.  Still, we don't know and wil never know what caused the fight.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    OK - if it takes two to tango, and Martin's punishment was death, then what is a fair punishment for Zimmerman?  

    If Zimmerman had minded his own business that night, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had followed the instructions of the dispatcher and returned to his house, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had not left his car with a gun, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had shot Martin in the leg instead of the chest, Martin would still be alive.  

    I understand Zimmerman might not be a murderer, but I don't understand completely absolving him of the terrible decisions he made that resulted in the death of a 17-year-old.

     

     

     

     



    I don't think the evidence shows that Zimmerman made terrible decisions.  He might have, but the evidence to show that is lacking.  That he got out of his car to check the cross street does not mean that he was following Martin.  I could just as easily say Martin made terrible decisions to attack Zimmerman.

     

     

     

    Look, it is simple, the evidence does not support your assertions.  

     

     

     

     

     

    We know Zimmerman was following Martin - he said so on the 911 call.  If nothing else, Zimmerman is guilty of menacing, which means he cannot then claim self-defense, and is at least guilty of manslaughter, which all in all feels like the best description of what happened.  I don't think he intended to murder Martin, but he made a series of very bad decisions that eventually led to the boy's death.

     



    Not true.  Read the transcript. 

     

     http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

     

     


     

     

    Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. [expletive] he's running. 

    Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?

    ...

    Dispatcher: Are you following him?

    Zimmerman: Yeah

    Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.

    Zimmerman: Ok

     



    So, why did you stop there with the transcript?

     

    it goes on for a few minutes, with Zimmerman looking to meet the police wwhen they arrive.

    if anything, the transcript supports the Martin jumping out of the bushers and attacking

    zimmerman, as Zimmerman states not only that he lost him, but that he was looking to meet

    the police who were en route.

     




     

    Would you please post the portion of the transcript that supports the idea that Martin jumped out the bushes and attacked Zimmerman?

    The transcript actually shows that the dispatcher was trying to get Zimmerman to return home, telling him the police would meet him in front of his house.  Zimmerman instead asked the dispatcher to have the police call him when they arrived and he would tell them where he was.  To me, that suggests he was going to continue following Martin, after already chasing him down an alley on a rainy night, waving his gun.  

    Dispatcher: What's your apartment number? 

    Zimmerman: It's a home it's 1950, oh crap I don't want to give it all out, I don't know where this kid is.

    Dispatcher: Okay do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then?

    Zimmerman: Yeah that's fine.

    Dispatcher: Alright George, I'll let them know to meet you around there okay?

    Zimmerman: Actually could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at?

    Dispatcher: Okay, yeah that's no problem.

    [/QUOTE]


    The transcript does not support your contention that Zimmerman was following Travon at the end of the call.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    Closing arguments begin Thursday in the trial of George Zimmerman, charged with second-degree murder in the shooting of Trayvon Martin. The drama in the courtroom has been watched closely, especially a debate over the 911 call the night of the shooting, which both sides claim as evidence. Prosecutors asked Wednesday to allow the jury to consider lesser charges like manslaughter or aggravated assault, but Zimmerman’s lawyers insisted the charge should be murder or nothing. Judge Debra Nelson will decide on that issue Thursday, and the case will go to the jury on Friday.

                                                                

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/

    How many people care about the evidence?

    How many are just waiting to call it unjust and/or racism when Zimmerman is aquitted?

     

     

     

     

     

     



    Seriously, though - you want Zimmerman to get off completely?  No matter what other evidence you see, you know Zimmerman started the chain of events in motion, and that Zimmerman fired the fatal shot.  It's not like he was a hero or even a helpless bystander.  One way or another, a 17-year-old is dead because if this man.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    The only problem is that you don't assign any of the blame to Martin.  It takes two to tango.  It isn't like Zimmerman drew a bead on him from 50 feet and popped him.  Still, we don't know and wil never know what caused the fight.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    OK - if it takes two to tango, and Martin's punishment was death, then what is a fair punishment for Zimmerman?  

    If Zimmerman had minded his own business that night, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had followed the instructions of the dispatcher and returned to his house, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had not left his car with a gun, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had shot Martin in the leg instead of the chest, Martin would still be alive.  

    I understand Zimmerman might not be a murderer, but I don't understand completely absolving him of the terrible decisions he made that resulted in the death of a 17-year-old.

     

     

     

     



    I don't think the evidence shows that Zimmerman made terrible decisions.  He might have, but the evidence to show that is lacking.  That he got out of his car to check the cross street does not mean that he was following Martin.  I could just as easily say Martin made terrible decisions to attack Zimmerman.

     

     

     

    Look, it is simple, the evidence does not support your assertions.  

     

     

     

     

     

    We know Zimmerman was following Martin - he said so on the 911 call.  If nothing else, Zimmerman is guilty of menacing, which means he cannot then claim self-defense, and is at least guilty of manslaughter, which all in all feels like the best description of what happened.  I don't think he intended to murder Martin, but he made a series of very bad decisions that eventually led to the boy's death.

     



    Not true.  Read the transcript. 

     

     http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

     

     

     

     

     

    Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. [expletive] he's running. 

    Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?

    ...

    Dispatcher: Are you following him?

    Zimmerman: Yeah

    Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.

    Zimmerman: Ok

     



    So, why did you stop there with the transcript?

     

    it goes on for a few minutes, with Zimmerman looking to meet the police wwhen they arrive.

    if anything, the transcript supports the Martin jumping out of the bushers and attacking

    zimmerman, as Zimmerman states not only that he lost him, but that he was looking to meet

    the police who were en route.

     

     




     

     

    Would you please post the portion of the transcript that supports the idea that Martin jumped out the bushes and attacked Zimmerman?

    The transcript actually shows that the dispatcher was trying to get Zimmerman to return home, telling him the police would meet him in front of his house.  Zimmerman instead asked the dispatcher to have the police call him when they arrived and he would tell them where he was.  To me, that suggests he was going to continue following Martin, after already chasing him down an alley on a rainy night, waving his gun.  

    Dispatcher: What's your apartment number? 

    Zimmerman: It's a home it's 1950, oh crap I don't want to give it all out, I don't know where this kid is.

    Dispatcher: Okay do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then?

    Zimmerman: Yeah that's fine.

    Dispatcher: Alright George, I'll let them know to meet you around there okay?

    Zimmerman: Actually could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at?

    Dispatcher: Okay, yeah that's no problem.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The transcript does not support your contention that Zimmerman was following Travon at the end of the call.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Of course it does - Zimmerman was following Martin (chasing him, because we know Martin was running).  That shows that he thinks arming himself and chasing a 17-year-old boy through back alleys on a rainy night is good judgement.  It also proves menacing - if Martin had run out of the alley and been hit by a car, with Zimmerman chasing him, Zimmerman would be guilty of manslaughter.

    The dispatcher asks Zimmerman to wait by the mailboxes in front of his house, but Zimmerman says that he will be somewhere else, and asks the police to call him when they arrive.  Why would Zimmerman not be in front of his house, and why would he be unsure where he would be when the police arrived?  Has he addressed that question?  Because the answer staring us in the face and jumping up and down like it's on fire is that he continued to follow Martin.

     

     
  19. This post has been removed.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    Of course it does - Zimmerman was following Martin (chasing him, because we know Martin was running).  That shows that he thinks arming himself and chasing a 17-year-old boy through back alleys on a rainy night is good judgement.  It also proves menacing - if Martin had run out of the alley and been hit by a car, with Zimmerman chasing him, Zimmerman would be guilty of manslaughter.

    The dispatcher asks Zimmerman to wait by the mailboxes in front of his house, but Zimmerman says that he will be somewhere else, and asks the police to call him when they arrive.  Why would Zimmerman not be in front of his house, and why would he be unsure where he would be when the police arrived?  Has he addressed that question?  Because the answer staring us in the face and jumping up and down like it's on fire is that he continued to follow Martin.

     



    skeeter is committed to not understanding.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I just don't understand the love for the guy.  Even if you believe it was self-defense, Zimmerman set the wheels in motion that led to this kids death.  Now they're calling him Zim, like he's the shortstop for the Sox.  How did he become anybody's hero?  At best he's a decent guy who made tragic mistakes.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/

    How many people care about the evidence?

    How many are just waiting to call it unjust and/or racism when Zimmerman is aquitted?

     

     

     

     

     

     



    Seriously, though - you want Zimmerman to get off completely?  No matter what other evidence you see, you know Zimmerman started the chain of events in motion, and that Zimmerman fired the fatal shot.  It's not like he was a hero or even a helpless bystander.  One way or another, a 17-year-old is dead because if this man.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    The only problem is that you don't assign any of the blame to Martin.  It takes two to tango.  It isn't like Zimmerman drew a bead on him from 50 feet and popped him.  Still, we don't know and wil never know what caused the fight.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    OK - if it takes two to tango, and Martin's punishment was death, then what is a fair punishment for Zimmerman?  

    If Zimmerman had minded his own business that night, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had followed the instructions of the dispatcher and returned to his house, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had not left his car with a gun, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had shot Martin in the leg instead of the chest, Martin would still be alive.  

    I understand Zimmerman might not be a murderer, but I don't understand completely absolving him of the terrible decisions he made that resulted in the death of a 17-year-old.

     

     

     

     



    I don't think the evidence shows that Zimmerman made terrible decisions.  He might have, but the evidence to show that is lacking.  That he got out of his car to check the cross street does not mean that he was following Martin.  I could just as easily say Martin made terrible decisions to attack Zimmerman.

     

     

     

    Look, it is simple, the evidence does not support your assertions.  

     

     

     

     

     

    We know Zimmerman was following Martin - he said so on the 911 call.  If nothing else, Zimmerman is guilty of menacing, which means he cannot then claim self-defense, and is at least guilty of manslaughter, which all in all feels like the best description of what happened.  I don't think he intended to murder Martin, but he made a series of very bad decisions that eventually led to the boy's death.

     



    Not true.  Read the transcript. 

     

     http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

     

     

     

     

     

    Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. [expletive] he's running. 

    Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?

    ...

    Dispatcher: Are you following him?

    Zimmerman: Yeah

    Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.

    Zimmerman: Ok

     



    So, why did you stop there with the transcript?

     

    it goes on for a few minutes, with Zimmerman looking to meet the police wwhen they arrive.

    if anything, the transcript supports the Martin jumping out of the bushers and attacking

    zimmerman, as Zimmerman states not only that he lost him, but that he was looking to meet

    the police who were en route.

     

     

     




     

     

     

    Would you please post the portion of the transcript that supports the idea that Martin jumped out the bushes and attacked Zimmerman?

    The transcript actually shows that the dispatcher was trying to get Zimmerman to return home, telling him the police would meet him in front of his house.  Zimmerman instead asked the dispatcher to have the police call him when they arrived and he would tell them where he was.  To me, that suggests he was going to continue following Martin, after already chasing him down an alley on a rainy night, waving his gun.  

    Dispatcher: What's your apartment number? 

    Zimmerman: It's a home it's 1950, oh crap I don't want to give it all out, I don't know where this kid is.

    Dispatcher: Okay do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then?

    Zimmerman: Yeah that's fine.

    Dispatcher: Alright George, I'll let them know to meet you around there okay?

    Zimmerman: Actually could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at?

    Dispatcher: Okay, yeah that's no problem.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The transcript does not support your contention that Zimmerman was following Travon at the end of the call.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Of course it does - Zimmerman was following Martin (chasing him, because we know Martin was running).  That shows that he thinks arming himself and chasing a 17-year-old boy through back alleys on a rainy night is good judgement.  It also proves menacing - if Martin had run out of the alley and been hit by a car, with Zimmerman chasing him, Zimmerman would be guilty of manslaughter.

     

    The dispatcher asks Zimmerman to wait by the mailboxes in front of his house, but Zimmerman says that he will be somewhere else, and asks the police to call him when they arrive.  Why would Zimmerman not be in front of his house, and why would he be unsure where he would be when the police arrived?  Has he addressed that question?  Because the answer staring us in the face and jumping up and down like it's on fire is that he continued to follow Martin.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    It does not show Zimmerman continueingto follow Martin.  He lost sight of him, and he agreed to meet by tha mailboxes.

    What don't you understand?  OR do you just need to twist the evidence to make your storyline hold water?

    You ask a lot of other questions, which have no bearing on the issue.  And, you jump to a conclusion, again, not borne out by the facts presented in court, or in this transcript.

    Why do you want to hang Zimmerman so badly?  What do you have against white hispanics?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    I thought as much:

     

    SANFORD, Florida — Jurors in the George Zimmerman murder trial will be told they can potentially convict him for the lesser charge of manslaughter for the killing of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin, a Florida judge said on Thursday.

    "The court will give the instruction on manslaughter as a Category One," Seminole County Court Judge Debra Nelson said.

    The decision on the instructions that will be given to the panel of six woman jurors was announced by Seminole County Circuit Judge Debra Nelson, as lawyers for the defense and prosecution argued in a hearing closed to the jury about the instruction they will be given in the closely-watched case.

    Zimmerman, 29, faces up to life in prison if he is convicted of second-murder, the charge for which he was put on trial. Under the lesser offense of manslaughter, he could face a maximum penalty of 30 years.

    (Reporting by Barbara Liston)

     

    http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2013/07/11/us/11reuters-usa-florida-shooting-charges.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimes&_r=0

     

     

    It all comes down to how much force Martin was using when Zimmerman shot him.

     

    The evidence I'm aware of does not strike me as terribly compelling: may have had a broken nose, cut consistent with striking head on pavement.


    No opinion to a reasonable degree of medical certainty that Zimmerman's head was being "repeatedly slammed" into pavement, or that it struck with substantial force. Indeed, was there any opinion on force?

    This is absolutely crucial to whether he reasonably feared his life was in danger, justifying him to shoot someone dead.

     

     

    You don't bring a gun to a fistfight.

     



    Look up the crime stats for Sanford, FL, and then tell me being armed is a bad idea.  Generally speaking, twice the national average on most crime statistics.  It is a dangerous place.

    Heck, for rape, burglary, and car theft, it is significantly worse that Chicago.  now, that's saying something.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     


    Of course it does - Zimmerman was following Martin (chasing him, because we know Martin was running).  That shows that he thinks arming himself and chasing a 17-year-old boy through back alleys on a rainy night is good judgement.  It also proves menacing - if Martin had run out of the alley and been hit by a car, with Zimmerman chasing him, Zimmerman would be guilty of manslaughter.

    The dispatcher asks Zimmerman to wait by the mailboxes in front of his house, but Zimmerman says that he will be somewhere else, and asks the police to call him when they arrive.  Why would Zimmerman not be in front of his house, and why would he be unsure where he would be when the police arrived?  Has he addressed that question?  Because the answer staring us in the face and jumping up and down like it's on fire is that he continued to follow Martin.

     



    skeeter is committed to not understanding.

     

    [/QUOTE]

     

    Yah, the facts go against you so attack me.  


    You are commited to lying about this issue.  There is no evidence to support the point of view being presented, but you progressives insist on hanging Zimmeran, despite the lack of evidence.  

    I understand how emotionally invested the left is in this. they need the template to fit, it doesn't, so they say the evidence is saying something that it is not.

     
  24. This post has been removed.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

    The dispatcher asks Zimmerman to wait by the mailboxes in front of his house, but Zimmerman says that he will be somewhere else, and asks the police to call him when they arrive.  Why would Zimmerman not be in front of his house, and why would he be unsure where he would be when the police arrived? 

     

     

     

     



    [/QUOTE]

    How is that relevant?  Why WOULD Zimmerman be inifrom of his house?  Maybe it's a big gated community.  Maybe he was a ways from his house.  He doesn't look in shape.

     

    The only thing left for you guys on the left to do is break out the pitchforks and torches, run down to the jail, and demand the jailer turn Zimmerman over to you for some "justice".

     

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