Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    But thanks to the media he is already sentenced to life in the American public's mind as a racist. 

    "Here is exactly the trap most including wdywn have fallen into explained"

    What a cowardly lie.

    Direct me to one post in which I claim that Zimmerman was a racist.

    [QUOTE]


    You do not have to pretend. admit you were wrong and move on.

    "so, the black kid got what he deserved" statements.

    Trying to make another poster into a racist.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    But thanks to the media he is already sentenced to life in the American public's mind as a racist.

     

    "Here is exactly the trap most including wdywn have fallen into explained"

    What a cowardly lie.

    Direct me to one post in which I claim that Zimmerman was a racist.

     



    Do you think Zimmerman committed a racist act?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [/QUOTE]

    Do you think Zimmerman committed a racist act?

    [/QUOTE]

    Good luck getting an honest answer!

    The trial has shown that Zimmerman did not even know his race when he called police.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName99. Show UserName99's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    All commentary on this matter should start and stop with this statement:

    "If Zimmerman had just stayed in his vehicle (as instructed by the police) and not pursued the teenager, then......"

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

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    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/

    How many people care about the evidence?

    How many are just waiting to call it unjust and/or racism when Zimmerman is aquitted?

     

     

     

     

     

     



    Seriously, though - you want Zimmerman to get off completely?  No matter what other evidence you see, you know Zimmerman started the chain of events in motion, and that Zimmerman fired the fatal shot.  It's not like he was a hero or even a helpless bystander.  One way or another, a 17-year-old is dead because if this man.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    The only problem is that you don't assign any of the blame to Martin.  It takes two to tango.  It isn't like Zimmerman drew a bead on him from 50 feet and popped him.  Still, we don't know and wil never know what caused the fight.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    OK - if it takes two to tango, and Martin's punishment was death, then what is a fair punishment for Zimmerman?  

    If Zimmerman had minded his own business that night, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had followed the instructions of the dispatcher and returned to his house, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had not left his car with a gun, Martin would still be alive.  If Zimmerman had shot Martin in the leg instead of the chest, Martin would still be alive.  

    I understand Zimmerman might not be a murderer, but I don't understand completely absolving him of the terrible decisions he made that resulted in the death of a 17-year-old.

     

     

     

     



    I don't think the evidence shows that Zimmerman made terrible decisions.  He might have, but the evidence to show that is lacking.  That he got out of his car to check the cross street does not mean that he was following Martin.  I could just as easily say Martin made terrible decisions to attack Zimmerman.

     

     

     

    Look, it is simple, the evidence does not support your assertions.  

     

     

     

     

     

    We know Zimmerman was following Martin - he said so on the 911 call.  If nothing else, Zimmerman is guilty of menacing, which means he cannot then claim self-defense, and is at least guilty of manslaughter, which all in all feels like the best description of what happened.  I don't think he intended to murder Martin, but he made a series of very bad decisions that eventually led to the boy's death.

     



    Not true.  Read the transcript. 

     

     http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

     

     

     

     

     

    Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. [expletive] he's running. 

    Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?

    ...

    Dispatcher: Are you following him?

    Zimmerman: Yeah

    Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.

    Zimmerman: Ok

     



    So, why did you stop there with the transcript?

     

    it goes on for a few minutes, with Zimmerman looking to meet the police wwhen they arrive.

    if anything, the transcript supports the Martin jumping out of the bushers and attacking

    zimmerman, as Zimmerman states not only that he lost him, but that he was looking to meet

    the police who were en route.

     

     

     

     




     

     

     

     

    Would you please post the portion of the transcript that supports the idea that Martin jumped out the bushes and attacked Zimmerman?

    The transcript actually shows that the dispatcher was trying to get Zimmerman to return home, telling him the police would meet him in front of his house.  Zimmerman instead asked the dispatcher to have the police call him when they arrived and he would tell them where he was.  To me, that suggests he was going to continue following Martin, after already chasing him down an alley on a rainy night, waving his gun.  

    Dispatcher: What's your apartment number? 

    Zimmerman: It's a home it's 1950, oh crap I don't want to give it all out, I don't know where this kid is.

    Dispatcher: Okay do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then?

    Zimmerman: Yeah that's fine.

    Dispatcher: Alright George, I'll let them know to meet you around there okay?

    Zimmerman: Actually could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at?

    Dispatcher: Okay, yeah that's no problem.

     

     

     




    The transcript does not support your contention that Zimmerman was following Travon at the end of the call.

     

     

     

     

     




    Of course it does - Zimmerman was following Martin (chasing him, because we know Martin was running).  That shows that he thinks arming himself and chasing a 17-year-old boy through back alleys on a rainy night is good judgement.  It also proves menacing - if Martin had run out of the alley and been hit by a car, with Zimmerman chasing him, Zimmerman would be guilty of manslaughter.

     

     

    The dispatcher asks Zimmerman to wait by the mailboxes in front of his house, but Zimmerman says that he will be somewhere else, and asks the police to call him when they arrive.  Why would Zimmerman not be in front of his house, and why would he be unsure where he would be when the police arrived?  Has he addressed that question?  Because the answer staring us in the face and jumping up and down like it's on fire is that he continued to follow Martin.

     

     



    It does not show Zimmerman continueingto follow Martin.  He lost sight of him, and he agreed to meet by tha mailboxes.

    What don't you understand?  OR do you just need to twist the evidence to make your storyline hold water?

    You ask a lot of other questions, which have no bearing on the issue.  And, you jump to a conclusion, again, not borne out by the facts presented in court, or in this transcript.

    Why do you want to hang Zimmerman so badly?  What do you have against white hispanics?

    No, he didn't

    Zimmerman: Actually could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at?

    Why don't you read the transcript, instead of imagining is says something that supports your claims.

    Is it possible that Zimmerman did not follow Martin after he made the 911 call?  It's hard to imagine - if Martin had doubled back to attack Zimmerman there and then, that contradicts Zimmerman's version of events?  What are the other possibilities?  Zimmerman had an errand to run, and Martin followed his truck on foot to attack him?  Martin hid behind the bushes at the end of the cut-way and that just happened to be the exact street sign that Zimmerman (who wasn't following him) wanted to read?

    I'm open-minded - come up with any possible explanation that explains how he and Martin were at the same place at the same time after the 911 call but does not involve Zimmerman following Martin, and I'll consider it.

    Like I said - I think Zimmerman is probably a decent guy who was sick of crime in his neighborhood, and got carried away and made some terrible decisions.  But a kid is dead, and he's responsible.  I don't think he's a murderer, but he's definitely nobody's hero.

     

     

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    I thought as much:

     

    SANFORD, Florida — Jurors in the George Zimmerman murder trial will be told they can potentially convict him for the lesser charge of manslaughter for the killing of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin, a Florida judge said on Thursday.

    "The court will give the instruction on manslaughter as a Category One," Seminole County Court Judge Debra Nelson said.

    The decision on the instructions that will be given to the panel of six woman jurors was announced by Seminole County Circuit Judge Debra Nelson, as lawyers for the defense and prosecution argued in a hearing closed to the jury about the instruction they will be given in the closely-watched case.

    Zimmerman, 29, faces up to life in prison if he is convicted of second-murder, the charge for which he was put on trial. Under the lesser offense of manslaughter, he could face a maximum penalty of 30 years.

    (Reporting by Barbara Liston)

     

    http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2013/07/11/us/11reuters-usa-florida-shooting-charges.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimes&_r=0

     

     

    It all comes down to how much force Martin was using when Zimmerman shot him.

     

    The evidence I'm aware of does not strike me as terribly compelling: may have had a broken nose, cut consistent with striking head on pavement.


    No opinion to a reasonable degree of medical certainty that Zimmerman's head was being "repeatedly slammed" into pavement, or that it struck with substantial force. Indeed, was there any opinion on force?

    This is absolutely crucial to whether he reasonably feared his life was in danger, justifying him to shoot someone dead.

     You don't bring a gun to a fistfight.

     



    The jury in my opinion has reasonable doubt he committed any crime!

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    Acquittal is the only verdict. Zimmerman may have followed him and he may have had malice and he may have started the confrontation but, the prosecution proved nothing and the defense delivered a case full of reasonable doubt! imho

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    Anyway, given the prosecution's embarassing failure to put on a better case, I think the proper verdict is manslaughter, and the judge should impose a light-middle to middle range sentence.


    It is clear to me that Zimmerman was dishonest about the situation when he chose to fire the gun. You simply cannot have your head slammed into the ground 25 times and walk away, let alone walk away looking like that.

    That he lied about that makes me doubt other aspects of his account.

    He was clearly attacked and entitled to exercise self-defense. Not deadly self-defense.

     

    Shame on the prosecutors if they could not drive this home.

     

    Unless perhaps you lay down on the pavement and asked a three year old to slam your head into it.

     



    You have had him guilty since it happened so this is no surprise. You convict him based on he is mistaken on how many times his head was hit against the ground. Maybe he was knocked silly and lost count?

    lol

    Lock up whitey!!! He must be guilty cuz the media said it happened a certain way even though ALL first responders with appropriate TRAINING said differently!

     

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    See?  Lies and deflection.

     

    You can't answer me how it is that his head was slammed 25 times on the ground, can you? Just can't do it.

     

    So you lie. You claim I think what I do because of what the media said. Hello, moron: Throughout this and all threads on this I have been discussing the evidence.

     

     

     

    But, I'm sure you'll magically regain your powers of inference once it's time to blame something on libruls. Guilt will be clear as day then. 

     

    LOL

     

     




    You are the liar if, you are trying to say you havent played Zimmerman as guilty since it happened and the rev sharpton told you he was1

    I do not remember Zimmerman saying anything in court! Maybe out of 25 only a few resulted in direct hits.

    The FACT is his head was slammed into the ground in some manner!

    lol

    what an emotional baggage tool

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName99. Show UserName99's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.


    Despite the 'beating', Trayvon had none of Zimmerman's blood anywhere on his hoodie, and none on his hands.

    How did Zimmerman's rather bloody and unbroken nose not get on Trayvon's hands if he has straddling him and repeatedly smashing him into the pavement?

    If you're twisted and crazy enough to initiate an altercation and end up killing a young man, could you possibly be twisted enough to pretend you we're in a scuffle, make yourself fall on the concrete and punch yourself in the nose?

    Zimmerman gets an A in his Stand Your Ground class.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to UserName99's comment:


    Despite the 'beating', Trayvon had none of Zimmerman's blood anywhere on his hoodie, and none on his hands.

    How did Zimmerman's rather bloody and unbroken nose not get on Trayvon's hands if he has straddling him and repeatedly smashing him into the pavement?

    If you're twisted and crazy enough to initiate an altercation and end up killing a young man, could you possibly be twisted enough to pretend you we're in a scuffle, make yourself fall on the concrete and punch yourself in the nose?

    Zimmerman gets an A in his Stand Your Ground class.



    Oh so now Zimmerman did it to himself even though the BEST and Closest eye witness said "Treyvon was on top punching him MMA style"

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

     

    Oh so now Zimmerman did it to himself even though the BEST and Closest eye witness said "Treyvon was on top punching him MMA style"

     

     

    I didn't say that. He obviously suffered injuries to his nose and a few tiny scratches to his scalp. That's not enough to shoot someone dead.

    (Do you really think you should be able to kill someone for punching you a few times? Bigger coward than I thought, if so.)

     I am debating one thing right now: whether or not Zimmerman had his head repeatedly slammed on the ground 25 times.

    I know you keep dodging that point because it's the weak point in his claim.

    As for MMA style? LOL. There is a specific style to punching used only in the MMA? Please. It's called MIXED martial arts for a reason....   

     Anyway...nice 100th dodge on the issue. You're certainly not that word you like to call people. Heh.



    A few tiny scratches? lol no bias there! The medical professional stated on the stand that the most dangerous head trauma sometimes do not show on the outside due the swelling being internal!

     

    But, I guess that doesnt matter to you.

    I think if, someone attacks me (it was never proved who attacked who) and they have me on the ground pounding me and then they reach for my gun; as Zimmerman stated, then yes lethal force is warranted.

     
  14. This post has been removed.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Zimmerman about to go on trial. Things look a little diffeent now.

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to UserName99's comment:


    Despite the 'beating', Trayvon had none of Zimmerman's blood anywhere on his hoodie, and none on his hands.



    He made sure to wash up before dying.



    You guys are a riot!!

     
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