Question for other non-Santa households

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Question for other non-Santa households

    In Response to Re: Question for other non-Santa households:
    [QUOTE]Santa may not be a real person - ie, a fat man in a red suit who flies around the world in one night in a sleigh drawn by reindeer.  However, I've always thought he is supposed to be the personification of "good will towards men", bestowing gifts on all those who have been good.  That's how I've always seen him.  This is why I don't think Santa is a 'lie' or a 'fictional character', like Big Bird or something.  So I never felt lied to, and don't feel like I would be lying to a kid if I gave him/her a present from Santa.
    Posted by ALF72[/QUOTE]

    It's not fictional if presented that way.  Presented as a real guy in a magic sleigh it's fictional.  The way the child processes it is different.  Bad?  Good?  I don't know, but different.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ElmiraGulch. Show ElmiraGulch's posts

    Re: Question for other non-Santa households

    Thank you for your responses.  I will simply try again with my child to reinforce our family's beliefs as opposed to what may be seen outside the home.  I did speak with the school early in the month, when this issue first arose.  The answer was much like people assert here - Santa is harmless whimsy and everywhere from lawn decorations to the grocery store to shopping centers. They saw no trouble with a few carols, a few pictures, and an upcoming party. As they assert, Santa is secular and thereby entirely acceptable for school. When this is how you view it, then it is easy to dismiss others with an opposing view as being trolls, nutjobs, or setting their child up for years of therapy.  This is why, in frustrated desperation, I asked for a bit of advice from other non-Santa households.  I know they are out there, but they are not as obvious and I don't know where to find them.

    Just to clarify, I post extremely infrequently on internet boards, not because I am a troll, but because I prefer to keep my private life private as evidenced by the photo post. That posting was within a day of the prior posting.  My apologies if contributing to a discussion that had been apparently ongoing for a year is somehow offensive.  I thought my position on the matter, because it is very different, might be of interest.  I tried to contribute a few times here, it didn't seem to provide much value, and so I stopped. I was hoping to try again, but clearly I should keep my own counsel.  I know that much of my actions, values, and opinions are different from many other residents of this region.  After more than a dozen years here, I had hoped that I could slowly have found a way to get by, but it is extremely difficult.  Please know that when you attack someone in a minority position like mine, it does not make me more inclined to integrate my family into this community but rather the opposite.  It was a painful decision to choose to send my child to school here and one that I increasingly regret.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Question for other non-Santa households

    Either way, you ended up with some honest discussion about it.  Hope it was helpful!

    You happen to fit the troll profile, regardless of the topic - it has nothing to do with the non-Santa question.   If you were here more often you'd know that and understand our position.  Regardless, if you're on the level, try not to take it personally and take the information here presented in good faith and honesty for whatever it might be worth to you.

    ETA:  If you can't find happiness somewhere, anywhere, after 12 years the problem might not be your surroudings. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from lemonmelon. Show lemonmelon's posts

    Re: Question for other non-Santa households

    Maybe if everyone thinks you're being too hard on the kid, it's because you're being too hard on the kid.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kiwiguy. Show Kiwiguy's posts

    Re: Question for other non-Santa households

    It may not always be easy or fit your personal preferences, but when in a new community, you really need to try and follow the old maxim, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do". This comes from a foreigner to these shores.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Question for other non-Santa households

    In Response to Re: Question for other non-Santa households:
    [QUOTE]It may not always be easy or fit your personal preferences, but when in a new community, you really need to try and follow the old maxim, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do". This comes from a foreigner to these shores.
    Posted by Kiwiguy[/QUOTE]

    I agree, but with one caveat.  It's not "new" after 12 years.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kiwiguy. Show Kiwiguy's posts

    Re: Question for other non-Santa households

    In Response to Re: Question for other non-Santa households:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Question for other non-Santa households : I agree, but with one caveat.  It's not "new" after 12 years.
    Posted by kargiver[/QUOTE]

    Not sure I get the reference to "12 years"?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kiwiguy. Show Kiwiguy's posts

    Re: Question for other non-Santa households

    In Response to Re: Question for other non-Santa households:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Question for other non-Santa households : Not sure I get the reference to "12 years"?
    Posted by Kiwiguy[/QUOTE]


    Oops. Got it now ....
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from amy-lynn. Show amy-lynn's posts

    Re: Question for other non-Santa households

    Kiwiguy - Elmira Gulch claims to have been a resident of this area for 12 (unhappy) years.

    I stayed out of this discussion, because I felt that there was little I could contribute, especially since the OP seemed to be very inflamatory. I think I have a slightly different perspective, so I have decided to join the fray.
    I am Jewish, but I do love the spirit and idea of Santa Claus. I think I do agree with the schools that Santa has become quite secular, and since I am raising my daughter in an interfaith household, I will be giving her presents from Santa. Growing up, I understood that there are different ways of celebrating, and that Santa was a Christian thing, so I never felt deprived. I don't remember asking that many questions about Santa, but I also didn't take issue with friends and classmates who did believe in Santa.
    If you don't want your child to participate in activities that the rest of the class is doing, that is your right, but be prepared for him to get questioned by his peers. We had a boy whose family were Jehovah's Witnesses in my elementary school, and he never participated in any of the holiday or birthday festivities, and was always peppered with questions. I'm sure it was difficult for him. There were many Jewish kids in my school, so Jewish holidays were much more discussed, and even then I sometimes felt put upon that I was expected to know and understand all the Christian holidays while other kids could ask "dumb" questions about the holidays I participated in.
    I think it is sometimes easier to assimilate than to be the odd one out, so your son might be trying to fit in by deciding to believe. But if you have never participated before, and you have been clear to him about your family's position and values, I would hope he won't be too upset. He might still be disappointed, especially if he has been ostracized for not believing in Santa.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Question for other non-Santa households

    It definitely wasn't meant as a correction of your comment Kiwi, just pointing out that the OP, statistically speaking, has lived 20% of her adult life here.  After 12 years, it's time to figure out what's really upsetting her apple cart 'cause I'm betting it isn't where she lives at this point.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ElmiraGulch. Show ElmiraGulch's posts

    Re: Question for other non-Santa households

    As much as I would like to "do as the Romans", I just can't bring myself to change more drastically than has already occurred. I'm ok with that but I worry about my child and the mean things that children can say about each other.  Like the Jehovah's Witness child, I know my child can stand out at times.  I'm sure he is seeking to both assert his own personality and conform to the norms of his peers.  I do try to accommodate this as best I can by educating him in the cultures around us and their practices.  However, our participating in Santa would be like a Christian fasting during Yom Kippur - completely out of place.

    In no place did I say I was unhappy and, statistically, I've lived 70% of my adult life in this area.  I am happy in general.  I am concerned for my child, but what parent is not?  My family is not well integrated into the local community because of a number of factors, of which disparate values is one.  While this is occasionally sad, for my spouse and I remember the vibrant communities of our youth, it does not make us unhappy.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedFishBlueFish. Show RedFishBlueFish's posts

    Re: Question for other non-Santa households

    Is it possible that his firm belief in Santa is masking some fear that, because Santa has never visited your home before, he is "on the naughty list"? If he's in school and all of his friends are asserting that Santa is real and saying things like "the only kids that Santa doesn't visit are BAD KIDS," it might seem rational to him that Santa is real, but somehow he is the problem. Your telling him that Santa isn't real isn't getting at the core of his issue, a fear that he's an awful child (and that his parents must be naughty, too, since he doesn't visit them).

    That might be a reach. But kids are mean. Bullying can start at a very young age.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from framerican51008. Show framerican51008's posts

    Re: Question for other non-Santa households

    I don't know what to make of this entire thread. 
    Kar, the woman posted twice and you think you know better than she what is "upsetting her apple cart"??  No offense to whoever said it, but I strongly disagree with doing as the Romans do.  Of course it applies in some cases, but certainly not all.  I'm not going to raise my child a certain way just to follow what everyone else does.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Question for other non-Santa households

    In Response to Re: Question for other non-Santa households:
    [QUOTE]I don't know what to make of this entire thread.  Kar, the woman posted twice and you think you know better than she what is "upsetting her apple cart"??  No offense to whoever said it, but I strongly disagree with doing as the Romans do.  Of course it applies in some cases, but certainly not all.  I'm not going to raise my child a certain way just to follow what everyone else does.
    Posted by framerican51008[/QUOTE]

    No, I have absolutely NO idea what's upsetting her apple cart.  I AM saying that after 12 years somewhere if you haven't figured out how to bloom where you're planted, it's not where you live that's the problem.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from lemonmelon. Show lemonmelon's posts

    Re: Question for other non-Santa households

    Our neighbors across the street are Jehova's Witnesses. Our next-door neighbors are evangelical Christians. Next door to the JW's are our Chinese neighbors, who I think are Buddhist. There's a bit of a language barrier there. Across the street are some atheist motorcycle afficianados. Next door to them are Catholics. And our other next-door neighbors are really, really into cats. I mean REALLY into cats. We have nothing in common with these people and don't feel the need to have anything in common with them. We hang out with them and enjoy their customs or whatever, and they at least pretend to enjoy the stuff we're into, and we all get along really well. I don't think you have to change or assimilate to be part of a community, you just have to be willing to let other people do their thing and not get worked up about it. I know that it's different for kids, but in my experience kids admire inividuality more than conformity, and if a kid is secure in herself she's very attractive to other kids. I just think that if we gave ourselves and each other a break and stopped freaking out about what everyone else is doing, we'd all get along a lot better.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from lemonmelon. Show lemonmelon's posts

    Re: Question for other non-Santa households

    And Elmira, it's not that you don't believe in Santa -- it's that you seem to have a serious chip on your shoulder about it.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Question for other non-Santa households

    In Response to Re: Question for other non-Santa households:
    [QUOTE]And Elmira, it's not that you don't believe in Santa -- it's that you seem to have a serious chip on your shoulder about it.
    Posted by lemonmelon[/QUOTE]

    "Chip on shoulder," "upset apple cart," yeah - I'm having a hard time figuring her out, and if she can't gleen what she was looking for from what's here...I happen to think this was a great discussion about kids and Santa - what else could she possibly need to hear?

    And, I loved your "bit of a language barrier..." that struck me funny the way you expressed it. :)
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from lemonmelon. Show lemonmelon's posts

    Re: Question for other non-Santa households

    In Response to Re: Question for other non-Santa households:
    [QUOTE]And, I loved your "bit of a language barrier..." that struck me funny the way you expressed it. :)
    Posted by kargiver[/QUOTE]

    I think you read my tone exactly. The wife is actually pretty fluent in English, but her accent is very thick so I have trouble with it. And the languages are very different, so you really have to stick to declaritive statements and not much humor or nuance.

    We actually comitted a couple of big faux pas with them -- they brought us stuff from their really awesome garden, and we thanked them profusely but didn't offer them anything in return from our really puny garden, and things got a little chilly for a bit until someone explained the rules to me. So I went over with a sad little cucumber and a couple of cherry tomatos and all of a sudden we were best friends again. We also showed up to a party there and found out that we were the only non-family members, so it was a really big honor, but we didn't know (again) to bring a gift, and we didn't eat anything. So things got weird again until we brought over a gift wrapped in red and ate some stuff then things were cool again.

    It's easy to get along with people, you just have to be willing to be nice.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Question for other non-Santa households

    "It's easy to get along with people, you just have to be willing to be nice"

    Absolutely.  Which is why after all that time...well, I've beaten that horse to death.

    Making a gift faux pas with an Asian neighbor is easy enough to do even for the nicest of us (like you in case you didn't get that implication!).  I toured Japan with a Christian singing group in high school, and we were given a list of gift rules first.  Most notably, I remember we weren't to compliment anything in their homes.  They'd have given it to us as a gift it would have been rude to decline!
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from lemonmelon. Show lemonmelon's posts

    Re: Question for other non-Santa households

    In Response to Re: Question for other non-Santa households:
    [QUOTE] Most notably, I remember we weren't to compliment anything in their homes.  They'd have given it to us as a gift it would have been rude to decline!
    Posted by kargiver[/QUOTE]
    Oh my god, we made another faux pas.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from kiwigal. Show kiwigal's posts

    Re: Question for other non-Santa households

    The whole "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" does not mean that one has to conform to whatever everyone around them is doing. That would be pretty silly. The idea is that wherever you are, you have to accept that there are probably going to be majority opinions, ideas, customs, etc. While you don't have to participate, you certainly can't expect everyone else to conform to your way of thinking, acting, etc. either. This is where we get a lot of the "ugly American" stereotypes from...people who travel to different countries, but want to eat nothing but McDonalds, dress in sweatpants, speak loudly, etc. with no regard to what is acceptable and valued in the local culture. No one is saying that Elmira has to embrace Santa, but she should recognize that the majority culture does. So, it would make sense to come at her dilemma from that point of view instead of trying to make the world bend to hers, because it just isn't going to happen.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from lemonmelon. Show lemonmelon's posts

    Re: Question for other non-Santa households

    I think my relationship with the Chinese neighbors is a good example of "when in Rome." We have totally different customs, but we all try to be respectful of each other's traditions because we care about each other.

    ^I don't mean that to sound like "I'm super awesome." Obviously I've made a few mistakes with them... and everyone else I know. But the important thing is to try.

    I admit, it is a little difficult to listen to the Jehova's Witness stuff.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SilverFestiva. Show SilverFestiva's posts

    Re: Question for other non-Santa households

    lemon, you are super awesome in my book.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Question for other non-Santa households

    In Response to Re: Question for other non-Santa households:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Question for other non-Santa households : Oh my god, we made another faux pas.
    Posted by lemonmelon[/QUOTE]

    I just got back from the Post Office (everything going to make it on time, no extra postage this year!), and read this and about fell off my couch laughing.  You truly crack me up, lemon.
     
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