Sleep tips?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BDCKristi. Show BDCKristi's posts

    Sleep tips?

    Hi all. So my 2 year old daughter has been yelling at the top of her lungs every night and not letting us sleep. She used to be such a good sleeper. She is not in pain or shedding tears. The moment we walk into the room, she is fine. She just wants attention. Sometimes she'll ask us to fix her blanket. Lately she's been saying she doesn't want us to leave the room. I've tried sitting there until she falls asleep, singing to her, etc.. But she just wakes up a short time later yelling again. We've tried ignoring her to see if she'll settle herself down, but she just gets louder. It was so bad over the weekend I let her sleep with us because we were desperate. This is not a habit I want to start.
    Any suggestions for how to stop her from yelling all night so we can all get some sleep? Thanks!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from misslily. Show misslily's posts

    Re: Sleep tips?

    Kirsti-
    When my son was two he went through this also. He would wake up crying - I never knew what time it would be...10pm, midnight, 2am once at 5am. I posted about it on my Mother of Twins website and was amazed at how many two year olds seem to go through this night waking thing right when they turn two.  It seems to last about 4-6 weeks and then it stops.
    I got lots of advice - one mom ignored the crying - but I wasn't comfortable with that. Most moms did this:
    Go in - soothe for a minute or two and leave. If he woke again, I did the same thing. No matter how many times I had to get up I did not take him to bed with us.  I'm completely unwilling to do that. It's a habit I don't want to start and then have to break later.
    I do think it may be some developmental thing that lots of two year olds go through. His twin sister never did it (and slept through his night wakings all the time). I felt more comfortable responding to whatever it was and waiting for it to pass.
    Good luck!
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Micromom. Show Micromom's posts

    Re: Sleep tips?

    I've heard developmental milestones can be accompanied by restless sleep, and I've defiitely seen it in my kids.  Take comfort in knowing it will pass.  Try to be consistent and firm, though I know it can be difficult when you're exhausted.

    Though you shouldn't reward the behavior, I've found this turtle nightlight helpful for sleep related hiccups:


    Sometimes they wake up and like the light, and also enjoy having control of turning it on and off.  

    Hang in there.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from savvyshopper926. Show savvyshopper926's posts

    Re: Sleep tips?

    My DD is 27 months and just started doing this as well.  Last night she was up at 2:30 screaming.  When I went in she said, "Hi mama!  I watch blues clues"?.  I layed her back down (she was standing in the crib) and gave rubbed her back and told her it was late at night and everyone was sleeping.  She whined when I left for a few minutes.  She did the same thing at 3:30, but I didn't go in that time.  She eventually went back to sleep until 6:30 this morning.  I am hoping this is a phase because I am also exhausted and can't take more nights like this myself. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Sleep tips?

    She gets louder because it eventually works.  Let her scream herself hoarse a few nights and she'll stop.  Your sacrificing your sleep, hearing, and nerves until she screams 'til she can't scream anymore will pay off.  Cave and you'll keep caving over everything.  If screaming works...well, it's gonna be a VERY long phase.

    savvy, great job.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from medfordcc. Show medfordcc's posts

    Re: Sleep tips?

    In terms of research-based evidence, there is nothing that shows that leaving them to scream works better than other techniques that involve responding to the screaming... but it all depends on what you're willing to live with AND that whatever you choose is *consistently* applied.
    So if you are a person who is willing to have the LO sleep with you, that's fine but you have to be willing to do it every time.  If you're a person who wants to let them cry it out, again, consistency.
    When we were having these problems when my LO was 14 months, we would ignore her, then get her, then let her sleep in the bed -- no consistency whatsoever.  I got a lot of good advice on these boards and we picked what we could live with and kept at it.  (In our case, we did similar to what misslily described.  Counting the number of times I went in helped me get through it -- I would think, "Okay, I can do this ten times." and then I would count.)
    It was hard, but it will pass.  I would just pick the technique you want, agree with your partner, and then plow through.  Since she's older, you might even talk / pretend play during the day about what will happen if she screams in the night.  That plus consistent response, she will know what to expect.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from medfordcc. Show medfordcc's posts

    Re: Sleep tips?

    p.s. if she is totally herself and happy during the next day, despite the lack of sleep, is it possible she is moving into a new phase where she doesn't need to sleep quite as long at night?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Sleep tips?

    I'd be the meanest mommy on the block, I guess.  My dog used to get us up to play in the middle of the night.  It worked when I thought she had to use the restroom; I used to let her out.  But, it turned out she just wanted to play, not do her necessities.  When I figured that out (in a couple of nights), I made the uncomfortable effort to actually put her on her leash and insist she "go" right away or I marched her back inside with no treat and put her back in her crate since clearly she didn't have a bathroom emergency (and it was COLD out there in my nightgown!).  After a couple of nights of that when she whined at 1:30 in the morning I called out gently, "Go back to sleep, it's nighttime," and didn't get up.  She learned within a couple of nights it is not worth her while to whine unless she has a real problem.  

    I know a dog is not a child so no offense meant by the analogy, but developmentally, it's been proven that they are remarkably similar to a 2 year old.  If my dog can learn that whining doesn't work for attention in the middle of the night a 2 year old can learn that screaming doesn't, either.  But, it wasn't the easy way out to do what I did.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from AnnFox8011. Show AnnFox8011's posts

    Re: Sleep tips?

    What you think you MIGHT do as a parent, and then what you actually do as a parent, are completely different. I never would have believed this until I had my two daughters. A whining dog (yes, we have a dog) is 100% different than a crying, hysterical infant or todder. Please do not insinuate that what works for certain familites is the "easy way out." 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Sleep tips?

    I'd be the meanest mommy on the block, I guess.  But, it's a fact.  If my dog can learn that whining for attention in the middle of the night is ineffective, so can a 2 year old.  And, yes, it's the harder thing to ignore it than cave to it.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from medfordcc. Show medfordcc's posts

    Re: Sleep tips?

    Kar, you would definitely not be the meanest.  :)
    The way you described is a fine option that a lot of people choose.  I just wanted to say that it's not the *only* legit option.  The research shows that different methods are not less effective (when consistently applied).
    I read Ferber's updated book cover to cover and the thing that stood out the most is that even this guy, whose name is associated with CIO, clearly states that there is no one method that works for every kid/family.  He really takes a careful look at assessing the kid's needs and choosing an appropriate response.  CIO being one (but only one) possibility.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Sleep tips?

    med, I totally respect you and how you've done things.  And, I appreciate that you don't dismiss everything I say out of hand. :)  My advice to not have screaming pay off at all only applies if there is NOTHING wrong other than the child feels like having company at 2 am (like my dog wishes she could have).  Any method, though, that doesn't encourage the screaming by merely doing "anything" to stop the noise would be a good, viable, healthy option.

    ETA:  However one decides to handle it, though, I'd think that waiting until the screaming reaches its nightly crescendo to then mollify her by putting her in bed with you is a SUREFIRE way to make it keep happening...every...single...night.

    (And, I think it's unreasonable for anyone to expect that my entire personality will change if I have a child.  Screaming would be the least effective way a 2 year old would have of getting me to act barring there being a real problem, of course.  It's not my child-rearing philosophy, it's my in-born personality.)
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from AnnFox8011. Show AnnFox8011's posts

    Re: Sleep tips?

    Until you adopt/give birth to/are a caregiver to a child, you just cannot understand what it feels like to have a human being (NOT a dog!) crying, choking, and vomiting hysterically. I don't think folks can understand sleep deprivation until they are in the thick of it. Sometimes, parents, caregivers, and other children in the house just need to sleep---I don't think it's something you can comment on unless you have a child/chidren. You cannot predict what you would do IF you become a parent, and cannot label what works for individual families as either "mean" or "the easy way out." 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Sleep tips?

    I'm not going to argue with you about what I'd do.  But, no one has said anything about crying, choking, or vomiting.   She said, "screaming" and uses the phrases, "for attention" and "she is fine."  

    She can take the conglomerate of advice and take what she thinks is helpful.  If she wants to dismiss my advice totally because I don't have kids, that's her right.

    ETA:  My mom isn't offended by the dog correlation, by the way.  In fact, she's the one who gave me the idea that it's so similar (otherwise, how would I know?).  I'd tell her about our puppy trials, tribulations, and training, and she'd invariably say, "Wow, just like a toddler - you'll be so prepared!"  If you disagree with her, fine.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kiwiguy. Show Kiwiguy's posts

    Re: Sleep tips?

    Next time my 2 year old wakes up and screams for attention, I'm going to put him on a leash, walk him around the backyard once (without his diaper so he is free to pee on a bush), and then I'm going to bring him back inside, put him in his crate without a treat and ignore him until I decide it is time to wake up in the morning.

    This forum is for practical parenting advice. Parenting of children. Human beings. I don't own a dog, so I will not presume to give you advice on how to raise yours. You may not have a child, but you may have useful information you have picked up from others and that is fine with me. Just don't try and tell me that owning a dog is any facisimile for raising children. It is simply offensive. Period.

    Please keep the dog training tips in the pet section
    http://www.boston.com/community/forums.html?plckForumPage=Forum&plckForumId=Cat%3aAmateur+PhotographyForum%3ac5c4dbce-b55a-4752-8280-bb415fdb7460

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Sleep tips?

    My mother isn't offended by the dog analogy - she recognized the similarity and pointed out to me.  If you disagree with that particular parent of a real child, that's fine, but I didn't deserve that tone.  CIO is a perfectly viable and well-documented suggestion to a request for "alternatives" to what they have been doing whether I'm a parent or not.

    ETA:  That was really mean.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: Sleep tips?

    Wow.  Some kind of vitriol here. I looked in b/c I thought it might give sleep tips for adults and I am exhausted w/ working 12-14 hour days.   I can understand why a parent who needs mental clarity at work would want to solve this problem as quickly as possible.

    Somple people may not want to utilize CIO but it is a viable option for many families.  There are entire books on it written by pediatric specialists.  You dont want to use it. Great. But it does work and has worked for many families. There are other options out there that prior posters seem to have covered.  

    I don't have kids [-disclaimer here-]  but unless the kid was raising the dead, I'd have no option but CIO b/c I am losing my hearing and simply would not hear a child unless they were screaming, crying, vomiting and making a royal ruckus so loud the neighbors would hear.  A little attention whining or fussing? I'd be completely oblivious. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from purplecow89. Show purplecow89's posts

    Re: Sleep tips?

    Then why are there parenting and spouse relationship books out there based on Cesar whatshisname's dog books and the gal who plays with dolphins at SeaWorld and why are they bestsellers?

    Why are there so many parenting philosophies out there inspired by evolutionary guesses about what we used to do when we were apes on the savannah and not people yet?

    Just wondering.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Sleep tips?

    There are millions of parents of real human children who have success with CIO, and they do the same thing that I did:  determine if there's a problem (obviously by different means than I used on my dog!) and, if not, follow a CIO system that works for them.  

    The OP asked for alternatives to mollifying her 2 year old to just get through the rest of that night in peace.  I offered a tried and true alternative and gave an example that my own mother noted was similar to an experience with a real, human toddler.  Getting reamed for that was uncalled for and nasty.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kiwiguy. Show Kiwiguy's posts

    Re: Sleep tips?

    For what it is worth, we largely used CIO to sleep train our son. It was generally effective with him. But we have other friends who tried CIO and it didn't work so well for them. That is why there are so many books that sell on various parent topics, or utilizing every theory you can imagine. It is like weight loss techniques - what works for one person or family doesn't necessarily work for others.

    As far as the dog analogies, here is my point:
    Telling a parent that you think a particular approach - CIO - should work for them because it worked a charm with your dog is simply offensive. I don't really care how you try to qualify it.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kiwiguy. Show Kiwiguy's posts

    Re: Sleep tips?

    And quit the pity parade already. You have somehow written sixteen and a half thousand posts in six and a half years on BDC - I am sure you realize by now that this is a public forum and not everyone agrees with you. I was not "mean", or even "really mean", I was simply telling you that your dog analogies to raising children are offensive.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Sleep tips?

    If my mom was the one who made the correlation when I told her my story that means that not every parent would be offended.  I never said or even implied it would "work like a charm."

    What there's no getting around is the fact that you were unnecessarily mean, nasty, and hostile.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kiwiguy. Show Kiwiguy's posts

    Re: Sleep tips?

    In Response to Re: Sleep tips?:
    [QUOTE]She learned within a couple of nights it is not worth her while to whine unless she has a real problem.
      If my dog can learn that whining doesn't work for attention in the middle of the night a 2 year old can learn that screaming doesn't, either. 
    Posted by kargiver[/QUOTE]

    No, you did not say those words, but you implied it.

    [QUOTE]If my mom was the one who made the correlation when I told her my story that means that not every parent would be offended.
    Posted by kargiver[/QUOTE]

    I never said your dog analogies are offensive to every parent. I simply said:

    [QUOTE]I am sure you realize by now that this is a public forum and not everyone agrees with you
    Posted by Kiwiguy[/QUOTE]

    In other words, it is offensive to some parents, of which I am one. I am here giving my opinion just as you are giving yours. What I am not doing though, is resorting to silly name calling.

    [QUOTE]What there's no getting around is the fact that you were unnecessarily mean, nasty, and hostile.
    Posted by kargiver[/QUOTE]
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from AnnFox8011. Show AnnFox8011's posts

    Re: Sleep tips?

    kar, one of my best friends in the entire world gives me the BEST parenting advice of anyone I know--and she doesn't have children. I'm feeling like you're not just giving folks advice--you're being judgemental, and I think everyone here needs support, new ideas, suggestions--not judgements (i.e., your saying that ignoring a child is 'harder' than responding to your child--and your saying that parents who respond to their upset children at night are taking "the easy way out." I think the fact that you are using your dog for the basis of these judgements is what is offensive and off-putting. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Daisy75. Show Daisy75's posts

    Re: Sleep tips?

    Let me start by saying that we did CIO with our twins when they were about 8 months old (they're 2 3/4 now).  The main issue here is that CIO doesn't really work most of the time after about 14 or 15 months.  By age 2, although you can't really rationalize with them, they have enough understanding of the world that simple explanations can help at least some of the time.  More importantly, you can institute clear-cut rules for some kids and they will follow it "because it's a rule."

    At our house, in the kids' room we have a Good Nite Lite (www.goodnitelite.com). Every night, at 7 pm, it comes on.  It looks like a blue moon.  That means it's nighttime and as long as the moon is out, it is not time to be awake or get out of cribs.  During the week, at 6:15 am, it turns yellow and looks like a sun.  Once the sun is out, they are allowed to get up.  Someone wakes up at 3 am wanting to get up?  "Look, the moon is still out, that means it's still time to be sleeping.  Remember?"  99% of the time, that is sufficient.  It's more objective--it's not Mommy being mean, it's the light.  In the rare circumstance it doesn't work, step 2 is to open a curtain or shade for the kid to look outside and SEE that it's still dark and all the lights in all the other houses are still out--everyone else is still sleeping, point out that sister/brother and Daddy are still asleep, pathetically say that Mommy is "SO TIRED and has to go back to bed."  If that doesn't work (and it's RARE to get to this point), I firmly give the kid a choice:  s/he can either go back in their crib and go to sleep until the sun comes out OR they can sleep in their peapod (http://www.kidco.com/main.taf?p=4,5) in one of the other rooms with the door closed and no lights.  No one has ever chosen the peapod.

    To the OP:  I would say to set some firm rules about sleep time.  Get a Good Nite Light or similar to help enforce that it's time for sleeping.  During the day, talk about it.  Ask why she kept calling for you.  Ask why she was awake.  Ask if there's something that will help her sleep better, ask why she's waking up, ask if she had a bad dream.  You'll be amazed at how much she may be able to tell you.  And then talk about the nighttime routine with her--list the steps.  Tell her what you want her to do if she wakes up in the middle of the night.  Tell her if it's still dark, she needs to be quiet and try to go back to sleep.  Again, you can't expect 100% compliance--because she's two--but you can set certain expectations.  She can't follow the expectations if she doesn't know what they are.  Quiz her before bed:  "If you wake up and it's still dark out, what are you going to do?"  Use the phrases "big girl" and "so proud" frequently.  If you can get her to buy in to the rules, she'll be more-inclined to show you that she can follow them--esp. if it means she's a "big girl."  You can even go so far as to tell her:  if it's dark out and you yell to me, I might not hear you b/c I'm asleep.  If I don't come see you, it means I'm still asleep and you should be too."

    Of course, don't flood her with everything all at once, but brief discussions about it for a few days and little reminders before bedtime should help.  I just think that at 2 years old, the CIO ship has sailed and it's just not the most productive way to go at this point.
     
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