Weight of homework on middle school grades

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from RTMom. Show RTMom's posts

    Weight of homework on middle school grades

    Just curious of people's opinion on homework in middle school. Our middle school's 6th & 7th grade teachers count hw and binder checks for 15-20% of the grade for that class. This weighs heavily on a disorganized student. It will count for up to 40% of their grade. They claim that giving 0's on missing hw assignments will teach the student to become organized. They tell me that you have to let them fail and they will finally get it. My daughter is in her 3rd semester and is still disorganized. She always does her hw but some of the scenarios are not putting her name on the paper, leaving it in her locker, it is in her binder but it was stuck to another paper and she panics and can't find it, you name the scene and it is her. She received 0's for all of these. I have worked with her over and over to become organized, not sure what else to do. Guidance had no suggestions other than what we already do. She gets good grades on tests and quizzes but the hw and binder checks have kept her off the honor roll. She did finally make it this semester but still had a few 0's, luckily had a 97 average in the classes so she either got an A- or a B+ in those classes. I've pretty much have irritated the teachers with my complaints on this subject but I would really like to have the policy changed.
    Am I being unreasonable?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from easydoesit2. Show easydoesit2's posts

    Re: Weight of homework on middle school grades

    I don't think you are being unreasonable.  Thank God they aren't trying to teach her how to swim: they would toss her in the pool and walk away.  If the quality of her work is good, then she shouldn't get a zero grade because she didn't sign her name or had to go back to her locker to get it.  Not to let your daughter off the hook: she does seem exceptionally disorganized, and you have to work on that with appropriate corrective action.  Giving her a zero on quality work is NOT appropriately corrective. The proof of that is simple:it hasn't worked.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from whatawagSBNy. Show whatawagSBNy's posts

    Re: Weight of homework on middle school grades

    The quality of the homework should be separately graded - not a zero if sent to her locker to get it, or if she needs a reminder to sign her name once or twice.

        Late homework should however be downgraded by this age. (As in,  the quality was excellent - all the problems right , an A,  but given an 85 overall for being  late.  Not a zero.)

        In most schools it is by 3rd or at latest 4th grade  that getting things finished on time is counted.   If a child is repeatedly this deficient in organization, the grade should reflect that.   You talk of it keeping her off the Honor Roll.  But in fact, in life,  being just 3 hours or a day late is costly.  After more than 5 years in school, this should be clear to parent and child, and that is what grades are for.

        As for fairness, remember that some children do every bit of homework, learn all the subject matter, can answer questions and can move on and use the subject learned.   
        But because they clutch at tests, or have other difficulties with test taking,  their test scores will always be lower than your child's.  Because they did all the work, demonstrated their knowledge in homework assignments,  they  will have the homework score to raise their test scores  for the final grade.

        Teachers need to  look at all of the children, see that grades flag any persistent deficiencies, and reward the aspects of work done well, in a timely manner, and from which learning took place.

        Your child is no more deserving of being on the Honor Roll than another who also learns everything but has test taking issues.
         And in a fair grading system,  someone who always does the organizational steps to get things done, signed, and turned in on time,  and tests well,  should have a higher grade than either of the other two   who have deficiencies in performance.
       It may not come naturally to them either.  But at some point they have done the work  to build an organized routine, and set aside time they may have wanted to do something else, to get work done, and in a notebook or on the right desk, on time.    Maybe they spent 30 to 40 hours of practice test taking during vacations and weekends, just to solve their problems.
        Why shouldn't they have the higher grade to reflect that effort?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from MM379. Show MM379's posts

    Re: Weight of homework on middle school grades

    I do think that timeliness effecting the grade is fair, but would favor a reduction of points for being late, not an absolute 0.  I work in higher ed and work with many college students around organization, time management, etc.  If it is apparent the system won't change, perhaps some organization tips for your daughter might be helpful.  I might suggest a check list for the next day that becomes part of her evening routine.  Is my homework where it needs to be?  Signed?  Complete?  Then maybe a drop off 5 extra minutes early at school with a similar style check list - What do I need between now and when I can come back to my locker?  Do I have it all?
    For some of us, organization just happens, but for others of us, we need to make slightly more conscious efforts.  I am really disappointed to hear her guidance office did not offer any support around working with her on organizational strategies. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from enjar. Show enjar's posts

    Re: Weight of homework on middle school grades

    I think you are being unreasonable.  The grading system seems to be very clearly laid out and she isn't doing what is required to complete the assignment.  I will concur with whatawagSBNy that it seems more reasonable to take some sort of deduction rather than giving a zero, but perhaps they have attempted to address this in another manner, such as giving her a few "freebies" or "strikes" where they don't deduct for a missing name, late, etc?

    I recall having a similar issue when I was a kid, and my mother/father would check my homework to make sure it was filed correctly in my notebook, had my name on it, etc.  Eventually I was able to move on to making these checks myself.

    One of the most valuable things I have learned over time IS the value of organization.  It's always possible to obtain knowledge -- you can read a book, use the Internet, ask someone, try it out, etc.  The real critical skill is being able to retrieve that amassed knowledge and then bring it to bear on a new problem that presents itself, so I do think the teachers have a point in making organization a part of the learning process.


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from kiwigal. Show kiwigal's posts

    Re: Weight of homework on middle school grades

    I agree with MM and Enjar. I am a middle and high school teacher and I have a percentage of each term's grade that covers classwork/homework. That grade includes having each day's assignment complete and accessible in class, having all the required materials, etc. I make a concerted effort to assign HW that will inform the next day's classroom activities. When a child shows up without the HW or books (or a pencil or pen), it impacts his/her ability to get the most (or at times, anything) out of that class. So, yes, it is important that organization be counted as part of the grade. That said, I don't believe in an all or nothing approach. For example, I accept late HW, but do mark it down by a grade (e.g. A to A-) for each day's lateness.

    Organization is an important life skill, just like the ability to recall and synthesize information (like tests and quizzes assess). That's why all these things are a part of the learning experience. Just because one aspect may be harder for some than others doesn't mean it shouldn't "count", especially because there are concrete steps that can be taken to help students improve in these areas.

    If your daughter's organizational issues are too great to be solved by normal teacher or parent suggestions and checks, there are learning specialists who deal exclusively with organizational issues. Might be worth seeing if you can get a recommendation from a teacher, the principal, or fellow parent. Good luck to you and your daughter. If she can work through this, it sounds like she'll do brilliantly from here on out.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from GC1016. Show GC1016's posts

    Re: Weight of homework on middle school grades

    You know the situation and your child best, obviously, but I'd have to respectfully say that I can see some merit with this approach.  I honestly don't think it's too much to ask that homework be completed, in a student's posession, and labeled with his/her name. 
     
    I had a couple of teachers like this over the course of junior high and high school, and while I HATED it at the time, I have to say that a lot of my better work habits are a direct result of their "Tough, you're not getting any credit" approach. 

    Personally, I think the better part of valor would be to help your daughter learn that sometimes you get hard-*ss teachers (and bosses, clients, etc ...) and that these are The Rules for this class.  I'm not sure what benefit you'll get by lobbying to change the policy.  

    Standard caveats apply: my kid is still in utero, every situation is different, etc ... but do I think you're being unreasonable?  Nooo, I think you're being a good mom who's seeing her kid struggling and wants to help.  I just think that taking a long view of what's going to help her (when grades REALLY matter) might be better than intervening for a change in policy.   

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from lemonmelon. Show lemonmelon's posts

    Re: Weight of homework on middle school grades

    I concur with previous posters about the importence of learning organization at a young age, as it is a lesson one will carry throughout one's life, into the workplace and almost every aspect of adult life. I also understand how incredibly difficult it can be to see your child struggle and suffer, and the natural urge as a mom to position yourself between her and that which is causing her distress. Perhaps instead of agitating for a change in policy, which doesn't sound like it will do much good and is probably annoying to her teachers, you could ask them to help get your daughter organized. She won't have been the first student they've encountered with this issue, and they probably have really great ideas they'd like to share with you. If your daughter is truly unable to organize to the point where it continues, despite her best efforts, to impact her grades, perhaps you could have her evaluated for learning disabilities. It's not uncommon for really smart kids to have unrecognized disabilities because they clearly grasp the material, ace every test ,or write brilliant papers. You could also, if you have the money, consider a place like Sylvan, which has a program specifically designed for homework assistance (http://tutoring.sylvanlearning.com/homework_help_programs.cfm). I personally took this course when I was a freshman in high school, and I still use a lot of the skills I learned there in my job now. I wouldn't wait to address the issue, or hope it straightens itself out -- 11 is young, but not too young to develop organizational skills. She sounds like a very good kid, and I wish you both the best.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Weight of homework on middle school grades

    I remember having the exact same trouble.  Very smart, but careless.  Essentially, I felt the homework was "dumb" and didn't put my all into what you are calling "organization."  My mom called it "carelessness."  Forgetting to put your name on it, bring it to class, etc., all indicates she's bored with it.

    Instead of going after it from a detailed perspective (i.e., "Kargiver, please remember to sign your name on your homework."), maybe what my mom did will work for your daughter.  It worked for me, and I have a math degree from BU and was a software engineer for over a decade with gov't systems. 

    She, a kindergarten teacher herself, told me this.  School is a game.  Play to win.  If jumping through hoops will get you the grades, jump through the hoops.  Yes, it's boring.  Yes, you are smart.  But, if you don't play to win, i.e. doing all the "stupid" little things that are clearly required of you every time, you'll lose and your being smart won't matter.  School is a ticket to your LIFE, a means to whatever end you choose if you play the game.

    From that day on, I never "forgot" again. 

    P.S.  I always respected her for telling me the truth, something I'd already figured out and was handling poorly - that I could learn what I was learning on my own.  When she TOLD me I was right but my bad reaction to that fact would limit me, I changed my whole tune. (I was 9, by the way, and I remember the workbook that I'd done a sloppy job with that broke the camel's back, too.)
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from lemonmelon. Show lemonmelon's posts

    Re: Weight of homework on middle school grades

    poor kiddo. Poor mom! How frustrating for both of you. Maybe you could talk to the school about setting up an organization lab for kids like your daughter who are having trouble, since it is such a big part of the curriculum at her school?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Weight of homework on middle school grades

    I didn't actually "learn" not to be careless, I decided not to be careless with my homework anymore.  If she's smart she's probably bored.  I was all the way through school, k - 12.  My mom's argument made sense to me, and, whammo, I was organized because my perspective had changed, not my skill set.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: Weight of homework on middle school grades

    Organization is an essential life skill.  I think it's better that she's being forced to be accountable now, in middle school, rather than having the school system wait till HS, or copping out and letting colleges deal with it.  If your daughter were in HS, I'd say counting organization toward the grade that much for anything beyond freshman year is unfair b/c it taints the student's ability to get into college.  Better to have her not make honor roll now and learn to be accountable than to let his go until HS or college where it can really make or break a student.

    I know it's hard, but try to let her shift for herself for a few weeks. If you don't remind her or swoop in to fix stuff, she'll have to learn to do it on her own.  It may take some time, but if the only negative to her academic history is not making honor roll in middle school, then she's lucky.  It may mean that she doesn't make the honor roll for spring semester, but that may just be enough to get her motivated enough to get organized so that she makes it fall semester.  Good luck. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from lemonmelon. Show lemonmelon's posts

    Re: Weight of homework on middle school grades

    RTMom, if it's always the same steps, can you come up with a mnemonic? Or some simple checklists, if the steps are more complex?


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from corsetkitty. Show corsetkitty's posts

    Re: Weight of homework on middle school grades

    As a former teacher, I have to say you're making the problem worse.  It's better to learn this lesson in middle school when the grades don't count towards college acceptance.

    Or were you going to go to college WITH your kid and make sure that her homework is done and her name is on things for her?

    Or just call the dean and complain when she flunks out?

    And BTW...20% is nothing.  I had it count for no less than 25% and usually 33%.  A test could be a good or bad day but homework shows if they're a consistent student.

    Cry me a river helicopter mom.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ariel81916. Show Ariel81916's posts

    Re: Weight of homework on middle school grades

    Honestly? My 7th grade experience was like dumping a giant Gatorade jug of ice water over my head, because I had teachers who graded extremely harshly. It was night and day compared to my previous school. One English teacher in particular expected her 7th graders to write like her sophomore honors English students. It was miserable -- I hated it, but my parents told me that I had to learn to work through it. They weren't going to fight my battles for me.

    Guess what? I did and those were skills that carried me through. It seems that your daughter has already gotten the appropriate suggestions. It's up to her to put them into action. You can't do it for her.

    As far as your high school daughter, it isn't really your place to impose consequences for not doing homework, but that was the school's fault. They should be the ones imposing consequences, not you.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Weight of homework on middle school grades

    If the zeros aren't getting her attention, her focus needs to be directed to why it matters.  Giving her a B instead of a zero won't improve her careless attitude that is causing the problem.  It will result in Bs instead of zeros with nothing learned either way.

    Make the stakes higher somehow.  Another zero on your homework for ANY reason and __________ <insert currency that means something to her here /> will happen.  And follow through.  Suddenly, she'll be movtivated to not "forget."

    I'm still convinced this is a motivational issue, not an organizational skill problem.  Determine what motivates her to not forget (obviously getting zeros doesn't bother her so much as to change her behavior on her own) and do that.

    It will be painful, but like our dog is learning on the invisible fence, it pays to be good.  Find out what "hurts" and make it a consequence (NO, I'm not suggesting you get a stun gun) of getting a zero.  For every zero, make it worse for her.  I don't know her so I don't know her currency - is it phone time?  TV time?  More chores?  Only you know what means enough to her to help her remember the little things that don't matter to her right now enough to do them. 

    I like the checklist idea.  Set her up for success with the checklist and then punish zeros.  She'll be "organized" in no time if the cost is high enough.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from lemonmelon. Show lemonmelon's posts

    Re: Weight of homework on middle school grades

    I think it's great that there are kids who can be told to start organizing and just do it. I didn't happen to be one of them, and it doesn't sound like RTMom's daughter is either. From all accounts, she's trying really hard, which is why RTMom is so worried. It's possible that the daughter is now so freaked out by the importance of organization that she's psyching herself out -- like when you're so overwhelmed at work you just shut down. So let's try not to be mean about it, and instead offer RTMom some suggestions for moving forward, since getting the system changed is obviously not helping. I've mentioned Sylvan, mnemonics, and checklists, which worked extremely well for me. Perhaps you current and former teachers have some tips that worked for your struggling students?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from kiwigal. Show kiwigal's posts

    Re: Weight of homework on middle school grades

    Color-coding worked well for me and works for a lot of my students. If she can have notebooks and folders in separate colors for each subject area, that will help make sure she grabs the right stuff out of her locker before class. Mom can also check the folders regularly to make sure math is not getting put in the history folder, etc.

    I also suggest making sure she cleans everything out of her folders and locker at least every month. Many students make the mistake of carrying around ALL their papers from the year and, of course, that can make it nearly impossible to find things. As a teacher, I am happy to go over with students what's worth saving and what can be recycled.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Weight of homework on middle school grades

    I'm not saying be mean or abuse her.  I'm just saying make her really want to do it in her heart of hearts for some reason since zeros and a disappointed mom isn't doing the trick.  If she doesn't have the inner drive to do it based on whatever currency will work best to fuel her inner fire, she'll fail even if she's technically trying.  

    I'm also not implying that everyone can just teach themselves organizational skills (nothing could be further from the truth).  There are true organizational skills that cannot be learned by taking the TV privileges away, but that's not what she's dealing with here.  A deficit in organizational skills would take more concrete organizational skill training (kiwigal's great organizational ideas, teaching her how to use a personal organizer, working with her on writing and completing to-do lists, etc.).  Her leaving her homework in her locker is not due to a lack of a skill, it's just her plain not putting the required emphasis on the task in her heart.  She lacks a consequence that is worth a lot to her. 

    I'm not suggesting beating her into remembering just making it more worth her while.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from whatawagSBNy. Show whatawagSBNy's posts

    Re: Weight of homework on middle school grades

    RT Mom,   Somewhere between walking a kid to the end of a dock and pushing them off.  and letting them become accustomed to water 6 " deep when they are in first grade and adding 6" depth a year,  is the right way to teach someone to swim on their own.

    Leaving aside as - different problems - kids so lost they cannot understand or do homework,  and defiant disciplinary problems.

         Since  most kids are at the level where with parental reminders and a notebook,  many turn in all work on time, signed etc.  by 3rd grade, with reminders.
       They remember all but 1 time per half year by 4th grade, and should be weaned off reminders except on an every 2-3 day random check to make sure they start on time for long term projects, by the end of that year.
    After that work gets harder, but the organization - is usually in place.

          The teachers probably think,  this child CAN do it,  but has not been doing it independently, and is 1-2 years later than most kids.   So what you see as - suddenly, in middle school they expect ...  is really to the teachers,  this kid is 2 years overdue, and does not take it seriously.   That is why they step up the penalty,  not lack of understanding,  but because they do understand, as long as thild gets all A's with no zeros,  neither parent nor  child will do anything.
        By the time they are 8, where I live, any child who misses the bus to school, whether by 10 seconds or 20 minutes, sits 1 hour detention in addition to being late for school.  In many city schools, before middle school,  kids have to get to school on public transportation, not even school buses.    Your child is simply way behind the curve.

        Best help would be to sit her down,  explain this and explain she needs to be weaned from reminders.
        With her go over her organization supports - writing assignments, calendar, notebook etc.  Set a schedule - for 2 weeks, every night you will check  with her, one reminder, night or morning.

       Then you will stop checking regularly, and once mid week and once on the weekend will look only at longer term assignments.   This will be to make sure she knows when it is due, and counts backwards,  will go to library by set date for books or will have everything from on-line all researched and printed out,  then will write notes, then do outline and research more, graphs and charts and presentations  needed with the paper,  major steps.

        She not only needs to get up to where peers are, but keep moving.
        Not sink or swim.  But enlisting her cooperation to solve this problem,  with CHILD  not parent taking all the steps.

       Set up a response - cost system at home.   Some major privilege for any whole month or meeting all the goals and deadlines in life.  The chores, with no more than 1 verbal reminder in a week.  No homework down grades, or zeroes, or runs to the locker.
        And set a "take responsibility seriously" penalty  at home, not just at school.

          My parents are great reasoners, let's work out a plan.  They don't yell, they don't nag, and they don't let themselves get engaged in fruitless aggravating back and forth fighting with kids.   They set out their expectations, everything done is rewarded if not with a prize, with a clear definite approval and comments.  No lack of positive feedback.   But actions have consequences.
        When I was a kid, after age 7 we got one freebie a year - forget your instrument for music lesson, happening at the end of school  or similar, you paid the $30 penalty in work.  After all, parents had to pay the teacher for wasted time.  $25 if Mom or Grandmother had to leave home or work to drive you because you missed the bus (in addition to school detention.)

        Not paid in allowance or birthday money.  We did not get off that easy.  We had chores in addition  to usual ones where we could make penalty money, or to save for any special want - CD's, tickets to games, special jewelry and clothes. 
         But penalties had to be paid before any work for extra spending money.  $.50 per Dad's or adult's ironed shirt, or a full tablecloth ironed, type  chores, easily added up so you worked toward goals at your own pace -  but No free playtime until you cleared your debts.  No internet, no tv, no phone, no outings.  Drag your feet, take a week.  Efficiently get it over with, 2-4 hours..

        A music lesson missed for forgotten instrument or music (or not practiced, note from Music teacher), a practice missed due to forgetting sports equipment, or a day even 15 seconds late for missing the the bus,  and sixty major items to iron or a 1/2 cord of wood (fallen trees) to be dragged, cut and stacked - all worked out to about $30, and a list of other possible  similar work was clearly posted  in .50 to $2.00 increments.

        By 10 years old, or 4th grade, after the 1 freebie every year,  any homework ZERO,   was worked in, and $5 a class.  Pray you forgot your notebook on a day with 1 item to turn in not 5.

        We each had the occasional week where we missed the bus,  only to get to school the next day without 4 homework assignments or a leotard for dance class, flute, whatever.   Our parents were not ogres, and if we were sick, or there was a really good reason, they listened. 
        But come the first evening after the Fall from grace when there was a tv show we liked,  free play time over half an hour, plans for the movies? Get yourself to the tv less laundry room, the woodshed, or painting chore, whatever.
       Many a Saturday  when 2 kids had between them a cord and a half of wood and 60 pieces of major ironing to do,  after regular chores,  we grumbled our way through penalty chores to tray and get out the door while the day was young.
        We did not slip up all that often.  8 kids,  we always had cord wood, had low dry cleaner for ironed shirts type costs,  painted fences, apple barns, you get the idea.

       In the real work world, by age 14 if you don't show up to do your job, people don't just shrug and say,  you get a zero. Parents won't hire an unreliable mother's helper, farmers won't pay for picking,  stores fire bag boys and other legal teen jobs are scarce without recommendations for having shown yourself responsible.
        Teams penalize people with a week on the bench. Every serious commitment gets a consequence when missed due to carelessness.

         A major role of teacher and parent is to build in a system to teach the child to take the learning steps toward independence themselves.  At 17 or 18 (16 in Europe) any grown child should be able to live in a college dorm and do all work, all self care, laundry,  and room chores,  and maybe work 8 to 20 hours a week.    

        Independently.
     
           Parent and child know,  that having to retake a class because they got downgraded on 2 missed homeworks and a 1 day late paper -  Costs $3,000  and over 50 hours class time and 150 - 200 hours of homework and papers.  Plus either summer work has to fit 45 hours a week around the unexpected extra make up class, or they could end up graduating a semester late. 

        Work out a system with your child where this is the long term understanding. Show her that what seems a minor transgression is part of a big picture.
     Clearly,  she needs to see that the road to living on her own, showing up on time with projects completed at school and work  with no parental reminders,  starts here.   Ask her,  how would you feel if your teacher in 6th grade started class by reminding her, in front of others,  to use the bathroom, not wet her pants in class.   WHAT?   Well, perhaps if she realizes that this is how teachers and employers feel about lingering babyish behaviors,  she will work with you to show what a responsible young lady she can be.

      Reverse things from, but Mom, all I did was ...  to taking pride in getting extra privileges for excellence and adult behavior.

         High Expectations, Mom.  You underestimate your growing child  and just how capable a teen can be
    .
         Teach responsibility, so it never gets out of hand.   At sixteen, you don't want to be hearing excuses - but Mom, everyone else was drinking, it was just beer, and I'm just the one who got caught and tested because I was driving.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Weight of homework on middle school grades

    Yes, in addition to making the cost of forgetting higher, make the reward greater for remembering.  Grades do not motivate this child either way - a zero doesn't bother her enough to do what it takes to not get another one, and an A doesn't reinforce her good behavior to encourage her to keep remembering.

    I cannot stress enough that these issues are not skills, they are behaviors.  It takes no skill in middle school to write her name or pick up her homework off the kitchen table.  Just because these behaviors are affecting her grades, doesn't mean you treat them any different than any other bad behavior; it's not a school specific problem even though it's manifesting here.  Does she forget tasks at home she doesn't like to do? What do you do in that case?  How do you usually discipline bad behavior and reinforce/reward good?  (Rhetorical questions, PLEASE don't answer that here.)
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from corsetkitty. Show corsetkitty's posts

    Re: Weight of homework on middle school grades

    RTmom--I tried that (the reduction, the chances to make up homework) my first year teaching.  It only resulted in hundreds of calls home, hundreds of very late assignments, and long discussions about who turned it what how late with parents.  Many kids decided taking a night off here and there was no big deal because what's the diff between a A+ and an A?

    As I said...better they get the hard cold reality of REAL deadlines in 6th grade when it doesn't impact college acceptance than in high school, college, or the working world where it will impact their lives in a real and long term way.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from whatawagSBNy. Show whatawagSBNy's posts

    Re: Weight of homework on middle school grades

        It is a tough call for a teacher, and has to be recalibrated for each grade taught,  and also early in the year vs late in the year.

        Give a flat out zero or F on even a short essay or  paper or math / science problem set,  they won't go back and do it   and do not learn.
        Half grades - who cares, B+ or B.

      Full 10 to 15 point (full A to B, B+ to C+)  get to matter if that is for every day late.
      It makes it worth doing it over in a study hall or finishing it / remembering it the 2nd day,  so you do not lose a second full grade.
       So you learn what you need to learn from the homework, instead of saying, why bother, it is already a zero.

      Parents who do not notice the occasional A-  became a B-,  sit up and take notice at a C- or D.

       Teachers in our schools had a standard back up from the school.  Persistent felons rule -  Unless waived by the principal/ dept head  and the teacher both for "good cause -  one night or 2 late,  teacher set policy.  2nd or 3rd night - you sat in in school supervised study  (non- disciplinary detention)  for as long as it took to complete the assignment not turned in on time, or the second day after.   And still got the full 3 day late grade penalty, whatever the teacher's usual, so you never got out of doing the work,  you just had a choice of getting a B, C, or D for it.

        I think that was also to back up teachers, as the same thing would kick in for coming to class without doing advanced reading.  For the teacher, how can you have a class discuss material 15 of 25 people never read?

       Teachers having to make allowances for too many readings undone or late done homework assignments,  slowed down the class by as much as 30 to 40 teaching days in a year, spoon feeding the laggarts.  Locally, first our high school, then middle then elementary changed to that policy early in my school career.

        How can teachers present all the material to be covered, when a small or large group of lazy or careless students mess up the system.

        I think often parents do not see that as a long view.
    Yet many parents do notice - why does modern world history stop in 1949 not 1990 this year? How will my child do on SAT's?   The answer is, too many kindly well meaning parents and teachers allowed too much leeway for students.   Everyone has a bad day now and then, and no 1 or 2 undone homework assignments per year hurt anyone.   But regularly done, what the 6 kids across town in your kid's class,  can't be bothered with,  slows down every student in the class.

      Teacher have to see and respond to that.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Weight of homework on middle school grades

    If you turn a business proposal in a day late you lose 100% of the account, not 15% of it.  Being late in life often does mean getting a big fat zero.  The school is wise to bother teaching this lesson in middle school so by the time more important things come along it's already instilled.  Just as losing the account is a drive for an adult to not be late, so will the proper motivation (No, this is not a euphamism for beating her) encourage your daughter to turn things in on time. Desired behavior needs effective motivation at any age.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from lemonmelon. Show lemonmelon's posts

    Re: Weight of homework on middle school grades

    Of course, being disorganized isn't the end of the world.



    If she can pull it together for a few years, she can become a creative genius or work her way into a managerial position and then she can hire someone to be organized for her.
     

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