late talkers...?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from stefani2. Show stefani2's posts

    late talkers...?

    hi all - when did your toddlers start speaking?  our pedi says we should be concerned that DS (15mo) doesn't know any words.  but, we think it can't be that bad bc twin DD doesn't really either, so the chances of both having "serious" developmental or speech problems seems unlikely???  (maybe?)  i guess they each say "uh-oh", and DD tries to say other things but they all sound like "GAH" - and DD makes more like higher pitch coos.  not a lot of consonants from either of them.  we're working on sign and i don't know if this might make things worse.  i have researched some ways to encourage speaking and we'll work on it - but just wondering if anyone else is in the same boat?  should i be worried?  i think we're going to reassess whether we meet w/ a speech therapist at the 18mo appt, but i'd appreciate your experiences.  (btw in reference to my previous post, eliminating the am nap has done wonders for the pm mood!!!  :) :) :)  )
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from medfordcc. Show medfordcc's posts

    Re: late talkers...?

    I am so glad the nap thing is working better!!

    I am wondering about the same thing, with expressive language.  I have read, though, that it's really more like 18 months to worry if they're not saying any words.
    I have also read that sign language doesn't make things worse, although I don't know where I read that.

    Our LO is 17 months and it was only in the last month there has been a big uptick in what she is trying to say/imitate.  I still have a hard time understanding her, though.  I guess she has "up", "down", "wow", "bird" that I'm positive about.  So many things sound the same, though... like I have a hard time distinguishing if she's saying "all done", or "I do", or "water" or something else.  A lot of things sound like "aahhh dooouu".  It's only very recently that I've really heard her "practicing" consonants, like in the car the same sound over and over.

    I think there are a few people on here who do have experience with this, so I'm interested to hear what they say!
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from poppy609. Show poppy609's posts

    Re: late talkers...?

    Stefani - My DD is 15 months and she has maybe 5 words, some of which she doesn't use without reminders and some of which only we know what she's saying.  I've wondered if we should be concerned, but the other 15 month olds I know also aren't talking prolificly, so I would imagine it's ok...

    When you say your pedi said you "should be concerned", what did he/she mean exactly?  What did they say you should do?  Get an EI eval? 

    We have our visit in a couple of weeks and I can let you know what ours says.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from misslily. Show misslily's posts

    Re: late talkers...?

    I don't think there is any need to worry just yet.  I'm in a different category since my twins have moderate hearing loss, but I can tell you this.
    No need to really worry until the 18 month appt.  Try noticing if they understand you - that's whats important now.  If you ask them to get something or point to something do they do that?
    Everyone tells me signing can actually help the expressive language.
    BTW - Mama and Dada count as words too...have you heard those yet?
    My BFF called EI for each of her sons at the 18 month mark when they only said Mama and Dada. Neither one qualified for speech therapy and they both started really talking quite a bit more by the time they were 2.
    Encourage speech by offering choices and seeing if they respond. "Juice or milk?" Repeat simple words - "up, you want up."
    Don't use the phrase "can you say...?" use the phrase "DS can say..."
    Asking the question can simply result in "no" being the answer. :)
    My DS called the cat "ma" for months - now he says "kitty cat, meow, meow" He used to point and say "ahh, ahh" all the time too. And he was babbling with consonants long before she was, but she ended up talking earlier than he did.
    I could go on with more examples - but you get the picture.  Just keep modeling simple speech and give them a chance to respond and see how it goes. You can always have EI come at 18 months if things haven't improved.

    So glad to hear things are going better in the grumpy after nap department!!!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from misslily. Show misslily's posts

    Re: late talkers...?

    BTW Stefani - I have heard that twins sometimes talk later - don't know if it's true, but I've read it in a few books. :)
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: late talkers...?

    Kids can sign (indicating they have the brain development for language) before they have the fine motor skills to talk.  You could try teaching a few signs and see if they can get the hang of it.  If so, they are capable of language already, just not speaking which is an entirely different skill set.  

    If he learns a few signs right away, not only would that be a good piece of the diagnostic puzzle he'd have a more refined way to communicate his needs to you, as well, even though he's not speaking yet.  My brother and his wife taught "more," "I need to be changed (the sign for needing to use the restroom)," "all done," and I'm not sure what else.

    ETA:  I know someone who was 4 before he spoke his first words.  They were, "Would someone PLEASE pass the butter?!"  When asked why he never spoke before he said that he had never felt the need.  Odd, but true.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from GC1016. Show GC1016's posts

    Re: late talkers...?

    You know, if your pedi brought it up and if EI is an option now, I personally wouldn't wait.  I'm not saying that there's an issue, but if you go to EI now and there's no major underlying issue, what's the harm?  In contrast, if you wait until 18 months and things still aren't progressing, then you might wish you'd gone.  Or is s/he saying to work on it and EI is an option at 18 months?  I'm not certain from your post. 

    As a point of reference, at DD's 15 month appointment our pedi wanted to make sure she had between 10-20 words (which I started rattling off and he was like, OK, OK ... you're OK.  You can stop.  It's OK ...) and we see her communicating through words and gestures.  She's had a few words (Mama, dada, uh oh) and signs (more, all done, bye bye) for a few months now, but over the last 4-6 weeks has really taken to signing proactively for things, and had picked up a lot more words. 

    One thing that I noticed had an immediate impact in terms of her vocabulary was a simple flip book where there's a sentence, "This little baby is hiding ..." and then you lift the flap and see/say, "Peek-a-Boo!" stuff like that.  It's a big favorite with DD, so I have it memorized and I can say the sentences now and she'll chime in with the "peekaboo, yum-yum, hee-hee, night-night" bits.  Now, I'm not sure if she knows what these things MEAN and she's not toddling up to us and saying, "yum yum" if she wants food or something, but I definitely noticed an impact from reading her those simple, simple board books. 


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from luvRIboy. Show luvRIboy's posts

    Re: late talkers...?

    I've got my 15 month this week, so I'll let you know if the pedi says anything.  DD doesn't have too many words...da-da, ma-ma, ga-da (my dad), baby, this, that, (both this and that, usually accompanied by a point) mmm, uh-oh, and woah.  She can point out more things if you say the words, though (belly, nose, ears, socks, feet, phone, etc). 

    I was talking to a friend who has a 22 month old, and he said he noticed after thanksgiving was when her vocabulary really exploded...repeating everything they said and understanding what the words went to. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from medfordcc. Show medfordcc's posts

    Re: late talkers...?

    The only downside I can think of to getting an EI evaluation now instead of waiting would be if he didn't qualify but somehow would qualify in a few months when the bar is higher because he's older...?  Not sure if there are any restrictions on how often you can get an evaluation.
    Also, I'm not sure if all the EI providers use the same evaluation, but the one that ours uses now tests expressive and receptive language separately but then lumps them together to get a "score" to see if the kid qualifies.  So if their receptive language is good, their expressive language has to be pretty low to qualify.  This is not to say you shouldn't look into it - just to keep in mind and discuss with them if you do it.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from poppy609. Show poppy609's posts

    Re: late talkers...?

    GC - really?  10-20 words at 15 months?  We're nowhere near that.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from misslily. Show misslily's posts

    Re: late talkers...?

    Yes - that's what they do. If the receptive language is good, they assume they will start to speak. Understanding is the first part.  If the receptive is low, they probably will qualify right away.
    And I found the evaluations quite complicated - they each had one spearately on separate days and I had to have a follow meeting for each on separate days - so 4 appointments (2 of which required daytime sitters) to get an eval.  I wouldn't want to go through that 2x in 3 months!

    Other tips for encouraging language.
    Read to them...a lot.
    Narrate your day - Mommy is cutting up apples. Mommy is putting on your socks. (you know what I mean)
    Sing to them.  One of the first things my DD tried to do was sing the ABC song once she started using words.

    And my peid asked the 10-20 word question at the 18 month appt. My kids didn't have that many words then - but I already had them visiting an SLP because of their hearing loss.
    For the record they are both considered right on track for their age (2 1/2 years) and even when I called EI when they were 20 months I was told they wouldn't have qualified if they didn't have the hearing diagnosis - which I had to produce in order to get services.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from amy-lynn. Show amy-lynn's posts

    Re: late talkers...?

    I can't help on the language front - DD had her first word at 9 months, and has not stopped talking since (my daycare providers ask us if we always talk to her at home, since she talks so much there). But DD didn't start walking until she was 14 months, and we have some concerns about her gross motor skills because she is always on the slow side for other milestones (jumping, walking backwards, still can't throw a ball as well as her much younger cousin, etc.) 

    So I just wanted to offer my encouragement that all kids have areas they are stronger in and areas that are not as strong, but it doesn't always mean there is a problem. I will say that all of the other suggestions about narrating the day, reading simple books, and asking questions they can point an answer to are all things we did/do with DD and I think they do help her continue to build her language skills. I have also read that sign language is a great way to strengthen language skills, because kids who might not have the vocal control to speak clearly can still have the skills to sign (especially "baby" sign, not necessarily ASL) and it helps build the neural connections required for language.

    I don't know anything about EI outside of what I have heard here on the boards, but is a hearing evaluation part of it? I know MissLily already knew her children had a hearing loss, but is it a possibility that an undiagnosed problem might also be slowing down your DS's ability to learn words?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Micromom. Show Micromom's posts

    Re: late talkers...?

    My son didn't talk until he was almost two and a half, and his first word was a full sentance.  Not a pediatric urban legend.

    He was my first and I didn't know what was "normal" or not, so I followed the advice of the "experts" and had his hearing tested several times and EI evaluations and services.  It was all very nerve wracking and in the end I don't think it made much difference.  He just talked when he was ready.

    Do they seem to understand you, or follow your lead?  Do they seem to be making progress in general?  Is there anything besides the lack of actual words that gives you cause for concern?  Listen to your doctors, but also trust your instincts too, you know them best.

    One thing that really encouraged my guy to start talking was going to school.  I may have been accidentally accommodating his needs at home so he didn't need language as much, but being around other kids and the need to communicate with his teachers seemed to help.  I don't know if yours are in day care etc.  if not, consider finding some classes or opportunities for socialization.  

     Beware of costs associated with EI evaluations.  Insurance may not cover more than one (or even one), so make a educated choices about the timing, just in case.

    Don't worry, everything will be fine.  I know it's easy to get caught up in textbook milestones, or compare your kids to others, but they develop at their own pace.  Soon they'll be yapping their little heads off and you'll miss the quiet.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from IPWBride. Show IPWBride's posts

    Re: late talkers...?

    Our 15mth check up question was 3-5 words. So that may also vary between doctors I'm definitely no expert, but what I've seen a huge increase in is not so much English, understandable words, but a strong desire to communicate. My DS is really starting to understand a lot more ("can you please bring me the Quack Quack book?" and shocked that of the 15 stacked that is the one delivered.). But, his words aren't fabulous yet. What is cool is his "talking" that sounds like he wants to be talking. "Galba buoy blab a peya boo" with great inflection like he just told me the best secret. I make sure to speak back to him in regular words, and we can have a lot of fun. Do your twins have a sense of wanting to communicate through "words," and sounds or are they fairly quiet? And awesome about the nap and more cheerful afternoons!!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from stefani2. Show stefani2's posts

    Re: late talkers...?

    hi all - thanks. DS and DD seem to understand a lot of what we are saying (DD more than DS, though - but she's always been more advanced!) and they look at where we point, etc. (DD more than DS but he is getting the hang of it) - so i think we're doing OK there. DS is slowly picking up some signs - again, more slowly than DD. i am not too clear on the pedi b/c DH took them to the appt - but, i guess he recommended seeing a speech therapist, not EI. as an aside, we did have an EI evalulation for DS, b/c at his 12 month appt. he wasn't swallowing solid foods, didn't seem to respond when we called his name, wasn't walking yet, and didn't hold toys in each hand at once (a lot of this was just in comparison to DD - maybe if we didn't have her we wouldn't have been so concernd!). he qualified for EI based on his "motor skills" results, but scored OK in "adaptive," "personal-social," "communication" (this was his 2nd lowest score though) and "cognitive" (his highest). we waffled on whether we should sign up for EI because i wasn't too impressed with the actual testing (seemed very subjective and with a lot of room for error), and then i wasn't too impressed with the service provider in our area - and then it seemed that DS made major improvements in so many things that i thought it would be better for us to just work on things with him. (don't judge me!) so, we're not going that route for now. anyway, back to language: thanks for the feedback; i don't think i'll worry just yet... :)
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from misslily. Show misslily's posts

    Re: late talkers...?

    Stefani - I can pretty much say that I believe my kids would be at the same place they are now even if I didn't have EI.  Since I do have a legitimate reason to worry, I do like having an SLP check on them every other week - but now that they are actually speaking, I've calmed down quite a bit.
    I think you are doing the right thing for you and your family.  My DH is sure that the less intervention is often the best.
    Good luck!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from winter09wedding. Show winter09wedding's posts

    Re: late talkers...?

    just went through all of this with DS.  We were referred at 15 months to EI as well- DS had said some words, and was very good with receptive language and sign, but did not have the typical "4-6 words" (mama, dada, ball, bottle, dog, etc.) and wasn't jabbering constantly (jabbering is the consonant-vowel combinations with inflection changes).

    EI was amazingly unhelpful. We had already had his hearing checked. Their EI-SLP immediately recommended at least an hour of therapy a week, but like lily said, since his receptive language was so strong he didn't qualify. We were told by the developmental coordinator they are able to force eligibility for 6 months- and then they essentially said they didn't want to. Although the SLP recommendations were helpful, the rest of the process was pretty frustrating. The other really fabulous thing (sarcasm) is that they do the evaluation at your house- and they commented multiple times on how “we already had everything we needed for DS”. Oh- and it took more than 2 months- so I wouldn't wait if you have concerns, because your child may be 18 months before they complete the eval and even consider beginning services.  Sorry to sound so negative, it was just really hard to have an agency say that your kid is clearly in need of services that they could provide, but didn't- and then insinuate that we have the resources to “not need EI.” However, I know that others have had a much better experience with EI- perhaps it was the early age (although your experience sounds not so great either!) 

    After talking to our pedi about the process, we sought a private eval. It was much more helpful in actually understanding the (enormous) discrepancy between his skill sets (expressive 9 months, receptive 3 years), which EI does not do because of the averaging.  they have also recommended therapy, which we are starting soon and my insurance easily covered because DS clearly needs the help.  the copays are a different story for us and will clearly be a financial challenge.

    the recommendations that I have received (from the people that seemed to know what they are doing) was to label everything multiple times (the ball, you want the ball, here is the ball), request that they use their words (rather than "UHH" and pointing) when they want something- even if it is sign language or vocal approximations, and to find other ways to make vocalization fun (paper towel tubes, playing with sounds, etc.)  Focus on the early speech sounds, like m, b, n, w, p and h.

    Even though DS probably has 15 signs, they have also recommended to teach sign language like it is going out of style- using it in my own routine talk with him (I was teaching him one sign at a time every week or so, and they basically said to learn ASL and talk with it, introducing multiple signs simultaneously.)  Sign language is good (although my mother's disagrees) because it (1) decreases frustration and allows for them to communicate without speech and (2) begins to lay the foundation for expressive speech in forming conversations, making eye contact, etc.

    I think that it is really a personal choice at 15 months.  I am pushing it because it isn't just that he doesn't have 4-6 words, but he isn't doing the jabbering and everything else- he's pretty quiet a lot of the time. And, DH and I don’t completely agree either, which makes all of this challenging (he isn’t running out to learn ASL). He thinks that DS will be like Kar’s example, just start talking one day. I would rather not wait another year or two before doing something, just in case he doesn’t. Since we are now expecting child number 2, I can't imagine the tantrums getting worse if his ability to communicate doesn't improve.  

    hope this helps.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: late talkers...?

    Micromom, that's funny you experienced that whole sentence as his "first word" thing with your son, too.  You must have been shocked!  

    I know I've been called out for saying this before so I hesitate to say anything, but in every example of a late talker in my life, it's been a boy.  Anecdotal evidence implies to me, anyway, that if you have a boy whose a little slower to talk you don't need to hit the panic button on the early side of the speech development window.  It seems to me that boys tend to hang on to new words, not using them just because they can, whereas girls are more eager to try out every new word they know asap.  Like men, boys just don't seem to be as eager to yap. ;)

    That's not to say ignore your doctor, of course, just a word of encouragement based on my very unscientific experience.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from IPWBride. Show IPWBride's posts

    Re: late talkers...?

    I just wanted to add that I'm not super impressed with EI either. We are using for gross motor and the therapist is really sweet, but she kinda just sits there and takes notes on what he does.  I could do that!  And DS is really starting to take some risks on his own and expand his motor skills.  Granted, they are not the "correct" way of doing things.  For example, he can't squat (bend both knees at the same time) to pick up something off the floor.  And up until last week, would just stand over something and get upset he couldn't get down to get it.  But, on his own, he has learned to bend at the waist and get it.  That's tough because his upper torso can pull his body over and he can fall... but that's what learning is all about... right?  I've seen him now three times bend over and pick up something without falling and he is beyond proud.  Again, not the correct way by bending his knees, but I realized that I think that is how I get stuff occasionally.  And no ones says at 37 I'm in need of therapy.  I'm starting to wonder if he will just get there on his own through trial and error.  BUT, I have family who say if I get rid of it after only one month I won't be able to get it back.  Not sure that is enough of an arguement to pay $125 a month to get really nice notes about how my son is moving around.

    So sorry to hijack... but wanted Stefani to know that I for one am definitely not judging at your EI decision!  Probably the right choice for your family.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from misslily. Show misslily's posts

    Re: late talkers...?

    I'll be the first to admit that EI isn't the perfect solution for everyone. For my twins it's worked out well because it is SO MUCH EASIER than taking them somewhere for SLP appointments. I was taking them to Mass Eye and Ear in Boston and it was such a hassle - totally stressed me out (especially since DD gets car sick)
    But I can see how a private specialist would be much better for many.
    I think I'm lucky that the EI in my area is pretty good. And I'm looking forward to starting my twins in an EI group over there next month. Added bonus that it didn't cost anymore than the annual fee I've already paid, so if we don't like it I can quit without feeling like I wasted a bunch of $$$
    Stefani - again - good luck. I think you've been given all the tips the SLPs use with my kids right here on these boards. I'm sure your two will talk when they are ready. (my dad and my DH were both 2 1/2 or 3 when they finally started talking)
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from GC1016. Show GC1016's posts

    Re: late talkers...?

    In Response to Re: late talkers...?:
    [QUOTE]GC - really?  10-20 words at 15 months?  We're nowhere near that.
    Posted by poppy609[/QUOTE]

    That was the range he quoted me, but we didn't really discuss.  My pedi is pretty laid-back when it comes to milestones like this -- he's very reassuring that all kids develop differently and the milestones are more guidelines. 

    One thing I remembering him mentioning at a prior appointment is that the first year is more physical development while the second year is more verbal.  He also said that kids tend to work on one milestone at a time, so if DD is about to master walking, you're probably not going to make much headway on verbal stuff.  That definitely held true for us -- she started walking six weeks ago, and after three weeks of walking I noticed a major uptick in words/communication skills.  
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from GC1016. Show GC1016's posts

    Re: late talkers...?

    Plus, you may be there and not realize it.  DD sometimes uses thes ame word for related concepts: "come" for both "thank you" and "you're welcome"; "up" for both up and down. 

    Hilariously, "uh oh" can mean "uh oh," or "Elmo," it turns out -- I just realized the latter on Monday when she handed me the remote, pointed at the TV and yelled "UH OH!!!!" 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from poppy609. Show poppy609's posts

    Re: late talkers...?

    I think "uh oh" is still my favorite.  It just always strikes me as so cute. The other day we were out in the snow and I had put her in her swing for a bit.  I sort of had to wrestle her out of it with her bulky snowsuit on, and I hear "Uh-oh!" and looked down and her boot and sock had come off and one naked little foot was dangling from the snowsuit. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dz76. Show dz76's posts

    Re: late talkers...?

    We have nothing but good things to say about EI in the dz household.  Every experience with them has been great.  That said, I'm still not convinced that DD2 wouldn't be where she is now even without EI.

    On the OP, my 15 month twins really don't saw anything but are pretty capable of getting their point across.  At their 15 month appointment the pedi wasn't concerned once they demonstrated that they can follow directions like "Please pick up the keys and give them to Momma"

    DD1 didn't really talk until 2.5 and now at 3.5 never stops.  She said "hi" at 11 months for a week and then didn't say it again for a year.  Other then Dadda, yes and no, she didn't say anything until 2 including Mama which I have to say was ok for early morning wake up.  I'd turn to DH and say she's calling for you.

    I was never concerned about it.  She was communicating just not being super verbal about it.DH didn't talk until her was 3 and I didn't talk until 2.  I really think when parents first talked is an indicator of when kids will talk.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from kiwigal. Show kiwigal's posts

    Re: late talkers...?

    Since I am one of the posters who had a positive experience with EI, I just want to make a short defense of them and their program. I think it's important to remember that they are a state program (http://www.mass.gov/eohhs/consumer/community-health/family-health/early-childhood/ei/). Their evaluations are not perfect (and they just had to tighten the intake criteria over the summer), but considering all the financial cutbacks in this economy, I think many, many of the EI providers are doing a heck of a job on a shoestring budget.

    As for my DS, he has always measured just about at age-level for communicative language (according to our SLP through EI). He sounded like many of the 15 month-olds described here. He made huge leaps in language at 20 months, again at 23, and just recently at 27 months.
     

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