Training a Climber to Behave

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from misslily. Show misslily's posts

    Training a Climber to Behave

    My son is 2 1/2 and has been a real climber since he was about 10 months old.  We have the kitchen chairs in the living room to keep him off the kitchen table, gates all over the place, no furniture in the nursery...the list goes on. He even took a potty the other day and used it to give him enough boost to climb on the kitchen counter and start "using" my computer.
    He figured out how to open all the gates over the weekend.  We managed to rig something up so that he still can't get upstairs by himself - but I"m realizing I need to figure out some way to get him to stop this sort of behavior. Part of the problem is that he's a twin and it's hard to watch him 24/7. He often manages to get into trouble when I'm dealing with her (on the potty or something).
    Anyone with climbers out there?  Did they outgrow it or did you spend countless hours pulling your child down and saying "no".
    CT-DC - any suggestions? I'd love to make my way toward fewer gates and ditching the highchairs for boosters on the kitchen chairs.  Heck - I'd like to have kitchen chairs that I don't have to drag from the living room every time I want to sit down!
    Thanks ladies!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from amy-lynn. Show amy-lynn's posts

    Re: Training a Climber to Behave

    Misslily, I think at 2.5 you can start trying real time outs. Pick a place to have DS sit for time out, and keep it short - I have a kitchen timer and DD still only does 2-3 minutes max, but it can work. - Also DD is really good about following most rules, so if your son doesn't follow rules well, it might not be as effective. But I have found that telling her the rule with a reason  (you must stay off the chairs so you don't fall and get hurt) works better than just the rule alone (stay off the chair) but DD is really logical, so it might just be her.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dz76. Show dz76's posts

    Re: Training a Climber to Behave

    Somewhere between 2.5-3, I started letting DD1 go upstairs by herself abd play in her room (which was safe) by alone if she wanted.  I had just had the twins and she thought it was a special treat to get away from the screaming attention hogging babies. 

    Thankfully DD1 was not a climber although DS at 15 months is already clearly a climber.

    At 2.5 I had really mostly stopped with the baby proofing and started to expect that DD1 knew what she was allowed to do and not do and if she did something she wasn't supposed to do i.e. hold down the water dispenser on the front of the fridge and flooding the kitchen she is firmly spoken to and placed on the couch for a timeout. 

    My problem now is the DD1, 3.5, and DS, 15 months, fight like cats and dogs.  DD1 is in time out at least once a day for attempting to physically harm her brother for daring to touch "her" toys.  And DS is a biter.  Sometimes he bites for no reason but mostly it is anger/frustration.  Any one else have/had a biter?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from misslily. Show misslily's posts

    Re: Training a Climber to Behave

    DZ - my DS ws biting for a while at that age. I was told to have a zero tolerance policy. A firm NO and place in timeout in pack and play or similar.  It seemed to work - he got the hint and stopped fairly quickly.
    My DS climbed over the stair gate tonight and went upstairs. I'm just not ready for them to go upstairs by themselves yet. Or for one to be up and one down. I need a clone Mama to help me out!
    Sometimes I envy the working moms out there. Someone else deals with this stuff for you all day long.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from CT-DC. Show CT-DC's posts

    Re: Training a Climber to Behave

    A mix of things that come to mind, let me answer biting then climbing. 

    Also, I'll give you more stuff on biting but I'm tired and gotta go to bed soon.

    First, it's really inevitable that children 31/2 and 15 months have a hard time getting along if they are very different which it sounds like they are, and because the 31/2 yr old doesn't have all that much control over her emotions and actions and the 15 month old has about zero control.

    So her toys need to be in her room and he doesn't EVER go in there.  Period.  As in, the door stays shut and she can open and close it.  Hopefully when the 15 month old can physically open the door and get in, which I HOPE is 11/2 yrs from now, you hopefully will have an older son who can not do something because he knows he shouldn't.  At this point, the cause and effect side of your toddler is this:  'wonder what will happen when I do this to DD1's toy?"  or "last time she yelled, wonder what will happen this time if I...."  not in a mean way, they are truly scientists at this point and are seeing what happens when.

    there are different reasons a child bites, but there is ALWAYS a reason - a child never bites "for no reason" - the trick is to figure out the reason and then treat from there, because different reasons need different solutions.  Again, that's for tomorrow.

    Now, a 21/2 yr old also is a scientist, and is figuring out not only what they and their body can do (climb, jump, run) but ALSO what happens when.... and they will do whatever it takes to figure out and KNOW what will happen if they....climb onto the counter.... climb over the gate and go upstairs....  so misslily, perhaps you and your husband can make 3 rules for the twins that are absolute, such as:
    1. no hitting - use your words
    2.  no climbing except the jungle gym.  indoor climbing isn't safe.
    3.  eat your food sitting down at the table (or whatever), could be touch cat gently. or use gentle hands, whatever is an issue.  or perhaps you have only two rules, not 3.

    I suggest 2 or 3 because too many rules are too hard for young children to follow. And then you write them down and put them on the fridge so you and hubby remember the 3 cardinal rules of the lilly household. 

    And when your son violates the no climbing rule (and he will), he gets a reminder in a firm tone "DS, no climbing inside, it's not safe.  Climbing is for the jungle gym."  and put him directly in time out - yes, for 2 minutes (set a timer) and you have to just sit him somewhere there aren't any toys and where you can see him (to make sure he's doing the darn time out).  so on the bottom step can work, or in a special chair you put at the bottom of the stairs, or in the center of the foyer on a toddler chair, or a piece of carpet on the floor or whatever...  and then the SECOND he climbs on ANYTHING he goes to timeout and sits until the timer goes off. No negotiating, giving 3 warnings, or (worse) sometimes giving 100 warnings before the timeout and other times getting timeout immediately. 


    The best way this works is if you have a zero tolerance policy like you did with biting and if you use it the same way all the time.  perhaps you do want 1 warning. Fine, but only ONE, not sometimes 1, sometimes none, sometimes 10 warnings.

     IF he gets up (and he will) then you just keep returning him with NO ANGER on your part (fake it, as this is the hardest part) and restart the timer.  when he's done, invite him to come play again, no hard feelings, and don't go on to have a 30 minute conversation about no climbing. and when he's in timeout you and DD keep playing or continuing on with your day.  the world doesn't stop because he's in time out. 

    then, make sure he gets outside NO MATTER WHAT TWICE A DAY to climb, run, kick a ball, chase birds, leaves, whatever.  I know that's hard, but it's critical for your active son.  (and it won't hurt your daughter of course, either!)  Because he can't be cooped up all day, he just can't (some kids can handle inactivity better than others although all kids get stir crazy if inside too long).

    do this for 2 weeks and see if it makes a difference.

    He just can't climb, and it's time he learns it's a NO. It's unsafe but more than that, it's also just not good manners and they are 21/2 yrs old and it's time the learn some of these things.  Is there any way you could buy a small climber for inside that he CAN climb on? something smaller like this for the playroom?  or at least get some indoor balls and a really good tunnel (Ikea has what seem like really strong tunnels for only $14.00, I saw them this weekend) so he can do physical stuff inside that is ok?

    http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_004V003418744000P?sid=KDx20090423x00001&srccode=cii_10043468&cpncode=27-96095035-2


    (although really, how smart is he that he carried the potty chair to the counter in the kitchen, positioned it correctly, climbed up, hoisted onto the counter, then sat on the counter to use the computer? no flies on him!)
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from IPWBride. Show IPWBride's posts

    Re: Training a Climber to Behave

    Not to hijack, and anxiously awaiting CT's response further on biting (which I imagine is similar to hair pulling, which we are just now getting)... but when is the "right" age to start time outs?  DS is just about 16 months.  Just a few times when I've had insane screaming for what seems like no reason... or because I've told him no/taken him from bad situation... I've placed in crib and walked away.  My only issue with that is my son LOVES his crib.  So that is not really punishment for him but rather just allows me to walk away and cool down.  I'm thinking he's too young now, but curious when they start to become effective?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from misslily. Show misslily's posts

    Re: Training a Climber to Behave

    IPW - most people say to start timeouts around age 2.
    And I've heard not to ever use the crib.  You shouldn't associate punishment with the crib.  It may interfere with sleep training or cause him to have bad associations with the place he should think of as safe and comfy.
    I think when they misbehave at this age a simple "no" and redirection to an appropriate activity is best.
    I'm interested to see what CT says as well.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Daisy75. Show Daisy75's posts

    Re: Training a Climber to Behave

    MissLily--CTDC's comment about having the older child (in the biting scenario) close her door all the time gave me an idea about your DS going up stairs by himself.  If you close all the doors up there, would it lose some of its appeal?  Obviously, I don't know the layout of your house, but in our case, there is an ~3' x 4' area at the top of the stairs with doorways on 3 of the sides (stairs are on the 4th side).  I would have to think if there's nothing interesting up there to get into, that the novelty would wear off fairly quickly.  If you have a long hallway he can run in, that's a different story, but just a thought....
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from winter09wedding. Show winter09wedding's posts

    Re: Training a Climber to Behave

    IPW- I have done time outs with DS, who is only a bit older(and under 2). we have a step he sits on, i never use the crib. right now, it is really like 20 or 30 seconds, enough to stop the behavior and redirect him. and he knows what is going on, which is why we continued it. if he breaks the rules, he gets one reminder. then he goes to the step. I can usually just point and he knows he has to go.

    if he is crying out of control, like a tantrum, i will leave him where he is (given it is safe) and just not attend to it.
     
    as for biting, I don't have any tips. my kid is the one always getting bitten.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dz76. Show dz76's posts

    Re: Training a Climber to Behave

    CT-DC - Thanks for your advice.  As the kids all share one room, I can't use there as a place for her toys.  I do however have DD1 only toys in the kitchen/dining room which the babies are not allowed in.  So sometimes she will ask to go in there to get away from them but always wants someone to come play with her which of course isn't always possible. 

    They are actually fighting over the twins toys, things like the fisher price zoo and its animals or this tall car ramp thing and the cars.  DD1 wants everything to be hers and only hers.  Even with 10 animals she doesn't want to share any of them and if god forbid the babies try to trade for a different one there is huge melt down and often she headbutts her brother in the belly and sends him tumbling which leads to him trying to bite (I don't blame him in those particular cases but it's gotten to the point that EVERYONE cringes a little when he comes close because you aren't sure if he is going to bite). 

    We live in a condo so when we are home we are all together in the living room which is where most of their toys are kept.  When DD1 and DS clash, I do give DD1 a time out (unless she was clearly not in the wrong) on the couch but that leads to absolute hysteria.  I should have gotten her a manager years ago.  She has been able to make herself cry practically since birth.  And now she's teaching the other two.  On Monday night, it was DD1 and DD1 who were fighting over the animals.  DD1 pulled DD2 down by the neck from standing to the floor.  DD2 was alright just upset.  By the way DD1 was carrying on you would have thought that she was the one who was hurt.  After three minutes, I asked her why she had to come sit on the couch and she turned her back on me and told me she wasn't ready to talk yet. It was 15 mins. later before she told me she was ready to talk.  She is so stubborn.  She then told me what she did, I told her how she could have really hurt DD2 and that she needed to give her a kiss and say sorry.  DD1 was annoyed when DD2 kept brushing her off.  Something like that is a daily occurrence in the dz household.  

    When DS bites we tell him stop, no biting and remove him from the area of the incident.  He then goes limp in your arms and  throws a full body kicking screaming tantrum on the floor.  We put him down somewhere safe and ignore the tantrum.  Ignoring tantrums worked when DD was his age but I'm not sure she had quite the temper he does. 

    I can not wait until DS and DD2 can talk and express themselves!  My MIL who left her job as head teacher at a preschool to be home with my twins has told me DS would have been asked to leave her old school due to his biting.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from lissafro. Show lissafro's posts

    Re: Training a Climber to Behave

    The lack of speaking might be part of it. My DD didn't have much trouble with biting other kids, but when she was on the cusp of speaking more she got a little nippy with me when she was tired and frustrated and couldn't get her point across. 

    I wonder if things will improve as he becomes more verbal or if there is a way to help facilitate him communicating before he gets to that point where he's beyond help and can't do anything besides bite and kick?  I'm not sure.  Does it seem like he's doing it to get a reaction, to be agressive, or just as a reflex?  My DD would frequently bite her silkyblanket as a reflex when she got REALLY frustrated (like, temper tantrum, bang her head on the floor frustrated).  Is there something you can give him to bite on when you sense him losing it?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from CT-DC. Show CT-DC's posts

    Re: Training a Climber to Behave

    Oh, wow, sounds like you are all living on top of each other, dz!  Yes, the biting will decrease as he gets older, partly because he'll be able to talk and partly because he will be able to control himself and his urges.

    Re: toddler biting.

    wow, go here, to the link below!  Zero to Three is a national organization dedicated to infant and toddler care, education, etc.  this is a great article, with links about reasons why, what to do to stop, etc.  they have written what i started to write.

    http://main.zerotothree.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ter_key_social_biting

    I would REALLY observe your son and see WHEN he bites, WHAT the SITUATION is, and then you can see what kind of biter he is and you wlil learn how to decrease the situations he is in that result in biting.  For example, you mention that you cringe when he comes near, which means he's biting alot.  Does that mean he's biting for attention, that's the only way he gets attention?  I'd imagine that's possible, as he's one of twins and has a 3 yr old sister so there are lots of chlidren and two busy parents.  OR, it could be as a function of his quick trigger emotionally.  Perhaps you can redirect the response, but you won't stop his trigger from being quick.  So if he's quick to be angry, you can say you can't bite, but you can stomp your foot and say No!  then stomp your foot and say no to show him.  He can learn to stomp and say 'no!' which would be a marked improvement to biting.  In a year you can refine the stomp/no routine to something more socially appropriate!

    But I'm also concerned, frankly, about your very physical 3 yr old, who is teaching her little sibs to be physical - after all, she headbuts and grabs them by the throat. Honestly, given your son bites and your DD1 physically hurts when upset,  I'd only allow them to be together if an adult is supervising, seriously.  this is called shadowing, and my teachers do this when they have a child who bites or hits or pinches, because only by being ON TOP of the biter/hitter/choker can you make sure the incidents decrease.  Because every single time she hurts them, or he bites, it reinforces the hurting/biting as a solution.

    I know you are disciplining both, that they aren't "getting away" with it, but in a way, they stlil are.  Especially your DD1.  Just her doing it over and over reinforces it again and again.   So she grabs and chokes DD2, you put her on the couch (where you all hear her carrying on for 30 minutes and your lives are all impacted negatively with stress, etc. and she KNOWS this), and she gets lots of attention, doesn't she?  In fact, the you talk to her after she does this thing, giving her more attention.... 

    Instead, when she does her IMMEDIATE timeout for hurting the twins (and there would be NO WARNINGS for this type of thing), I'd have it be in a room where you are NOT.  She can sit on the stairs, if you have any, or she can sit in the bathroom, or in the hallway.  Not the living room, because how can you all enjoy playing when she's carrying on?  And then when she's done screaming and rolling about, etc. I'd ask her (in a nice tone of voice, because you are modeling being nice and calm) "Are you ready to be gentle with your sister (or whomever she hurt)?"  And until she can say "yes" calmly, she'd not be allowed to come back.  Period.  If she say "nunh!  with that head shake of which 3 yr olds are so good at, I'd say 'sounds like you aren't ready to come back.  stay on the stairs until you are ready to be Gentle Anna." 

    When she says she can be gentle, I'd say "Oh, I'm so happy you will be gentle!  We love to play with Gentle Anna!"  and, yes, I might think of a term to use like Gentle Anna (or whatever her real name is, lol) so she can identify as that person.

    In fact, I'd go further.  Because having her get out of control actually doesn't teach her much.  What you want to do is to get her to recongize when she's getting out of control, and having her learn how to get back into control.  So, for example, I'd stop her play as it gets a little frustrated and start naming this "you are getting upset.  I want you to be Gentle Anna. Do you think you can?  Or would you like to sit with me and relax for a few minutes so you can be Gentle Anna?" (say this like it's a treat, not a punishment to sit with you - it's all in the tone of your voice)

    And then if she says she can play gently, let her keep going, but if she starts to ramp up again, I'd say "You know what?  You aren't being Gentle Anna.  Please come with me and let's relax so you can play gently." Then I'd take her by the hand and lead her somewhere you two can snuggle and talk quietly. This is NOT a punishment, it's a way for her to learn to take herself away to calm down, a way to learn to breathe deeply and calm down.  then, when you can feel her body begin to relax, for her breathing to be deeper and calmer, you can say "Oh, I think Gentle Anna is back, hurrah!  Let's go play with the farm house again."  And then she can return to the play, no harm, no foul. 

    she MUST be taught to take deep breathes and calm down, and she'll only learn to do it if you can see the signs of trouble and start to teach her to stop and breathe and relax.  Instead of taking her away, which might cause her to erupt into a tantrum, you could instead say. "Oh, I see that you are getting frustrated - your voice is getting loud and you are beginning to push.  (or whatever you are seeing - NAME those things you see so she can recognize trouble, too).  You need to get into control, let's take a deep breathe in, now out.  Like this - and you two do deep breathing in and out for a few times together, she'll copy you.  She should start to relax, then you can say "Oh, Gentle Anna is coming back, good job!  Let's play again."

    this will take LOTS OF WORK on your part, but honestly, you need to get your daughter into control, and help her learn to get into control.  Her being so physically dangerous with the twins isn't going to get better, and she will always be bigger than they are, and the next time she really might hurt her sister or brother.  And you can't let that happen.  And believe me, she'll also play this way with other friends, and you don't want this.  Period.

    I'd also start doing the breathing with your son.  I don't think timeouts are effective at this age, I really don't.  You need to model what you want your son TO do, and you guide his behavior by being there, right by his side, stopping him when he gets really ramped up, etc.  So when he's getting upset, you can say "you are getting upset, your voice is getting loud.  take a deep breath, like this" and then you do it, facing him. he'll probably mimic you, he's just a little guy and will think it's fun.  and by him doing that, he'll stop being so fixated on whatever he was fixated with.

    But honestly, I'd have her play alone whlie you are making dinner and can't be supervising all 3 of them, etc.  then I'd allow all 3 to be together only when either you or your husband are right THERE.  and, yes, it's a pain in the neck, and your husband and you will have to take turns doing the shadowing 'i will play with the kids this morning while you run errands, then when you return you will play with the kids while I clean the house."  But I'd say if you really turned your attention to extinguishing all physical behavior in your house you'd have made a MAJOR dent in it within 2 months.

    So by April 15th.  That's not too far from now.  Go for it, really, you'll be thrilled you did all this work when by this summer your house is more peaceful.  Because I really don't think your 3 yr old is going to just snap out of her physical responses to your twins, I really don't.  And every time she does something like head butts or chokes, she helps your son ramp up and bite....  vicious circle!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from CT-DC. Show CT-DC's posts

    Re: Training a Climber to Behave

    Misslily,
    What did you and your husband decide about your son's climbing? Are you going to wait it out or start actively teaching him not to climb anymore?

    And PLEASE tell me you snapped a quick photo of him on the kitchen counter after he carried the potty to the counter, climbed, up, etc.!!  Of course, you were using your sternest voice to tell him No, he is not allowed to climb on the counter....  but still, you gotta have a photo of it!

    Or maybe you should just purchase a real jungle gym for INSIDE your house?  Are your ceilings high enough?  My kindergarten had a real one IN the classroom, went all the way to the ceiling!  (ok, probably not, given I was just a little girl, but it was a real outdoor climber not some tiny little tykes thing...)
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from poppy609. Show poppy609's posts

    Re: Training a Climber to Behave

    I just noticed this thread.  DD just started climbing (15 months), and we decided to let her climb certain things (like into her high chair, or up the stairs) and to teach her how to do it safely, rather than always saying "No."  I'm constantly wondering if it's the right thing to do.  We don't let her climb onto tables or anything else unsafe, but she seems to get that she's allowed to climb into her chair, but not on the coffee table, etc.  We've never owned any baby gates; instead our theory has been to teach her how to navigate safely (yes, we do baby-proof for the most part) around her environment.  It is working for us now, but I wonder if it will backfire.  Has anyone else taken this approach?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from winter09wedding. Show winter09wedding's posts

    Re: Training a Climber to Behave

    poppy we did something similar in the beginning, and I feel like over time things have changed.  For example, we have two sets of stairs in the house (3 if you count the basement, which is always closed). one only has a few stairs and the other is a very tall staircase.  we worked on the small staircase for months (crawling backward, walking with the railing, etc.) in a similar manner to what you are talking about.  we also taught him "danger" and frequently labeled certain things- like the top of the big stairwell, and he was really good about it.

    however, then he got more relaxed about stuff in general- so he would run around upstairs between his room and the bathroom, and one night slid in his socks. he got very close to the stairs and we put up a gate the next day.  he has also become more of a "helper" so when the dishwasher is full, he knows where the tupperware with the dish soap is and likes to "help get it out." so we babyproofed more around the cabinets and such once he learned how to get the childproofing things off...

    since we have another one on the way, i have left all babyproofing in place (foam corners and such), but I think that the way I emphasize things depends on his skill level and safety at the time- so he is allowed to bring his stepstool into the bathroom to brush his teeth, but not to use a chair to get to the counter. that said- there is only one of him and two of us, so we can watch him pretty closely. I am more worried about mischief once his sibling arrives.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from CT-DC. Show CT-DC's posts

    Re: Training a Climber to Behave

    I think letting your daughter climb into the highchair, carry the stepstool into bathroom to brush teeth, etc. is good developmentally - since she is allowed to climb some things and has been taught to do it safely, it helps the urge to climb, while being allowed to do more things because they are more able.  A toddler and 2 yr old wants to do more things for him/herself - 'me do it' is a favorite refrain of 2 yr olds - so let them climb into the highchair, into the carseat, etc.  Wait until your child won't want to eat the yogurt because you peeled off the top instead of letting her do it herself... sigh...  :)

    But there is a difference, I think, between a child like your daughter who is just now climbing (a skill all children discover and use) and a child like Misslily's son, who has been climbing SINCE HE COULD CRAWL. And maybe in utero he was climbing!  Some children are just naturally more active, more climb-y, more get into everything-y so misslily has her hands full with her son, that's for sure!   And her daughter isn't a climber, although I'm sure she has some 'thing' or other that she does that her brother doesn't...

    For him, she probably should also let him climb, and teach him how to do it safely, into his highchair, onto the stool, whatever.  the problem is he actually thought about and executed ye old 'carry the potty from bathroom to kitchen counter, position it correctly, then use said potty to climb onto kitchen counter without falling and cracking his head open."  remember, a potty isn't even a step stool, so he was totally thinking outside the box. 

    Yeah for creative thinking!  And pass misslily an aspirin for her headache....
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from misslily. Show misslily's posts

    Re: Training a Climber to Behave

    Since you asked...here's my update.
    We put two chairs back into the kitchen.  So far they both have been pretty good about sitting (instead of standing on them) and not climbing on the table. I did catch him climbing his toy kitchen the other day and just took him right down with a stern "we don't climb."
    I'm going to take it slowly - one item at a time and slowly but surely I think we'll be able to start taking down some gates and putting back some furniture.
    Tried a time out and it was like an episode of supernanny. He ran away numerous times and finally stood in the corner shouting "I want the timer" at me. DD went and stood with him and pronounced herself in time out too. It was all I could do not to laugh or cry at the absurdity of the whole thing.  I tend to take away the current favorite toy as punishment now and it seems to work for us.

    Poppy - there is a woman on my MOT message board who has twins and an older toddler and she's always telling the rest of us how she never had any gates - even at the top of the stairs. Her kids are now 4 and 6 or something so obviously it can be done. I will just say that many of us think she just got lucky. My daughter has fallen on the stairs twice when I've been with her. If I hadn't been there she would have had a terrible spill. We have steep stairs so that may be part of it.
    My biggest thing is that I'm simply not comfortable having my kids upstairs alone without me yet.  I have no interest in finding the linen closet torn apart, or all my husband's clothes out of his bureau. My DD tries to get into the makeup - she wants to be like mama and it's cute - but it could easily be a big mess. And DS knows how to push the door knob and lock the door. I've had to hide a butter knife on the top shelf of the linen closet so I can get to him - he's locked me out of the bathroom and out of my bedroom already. There is only so much "no, no we don't..." I can take in one day. Then I want them back in the playroom, family room, kitchen area where there are more toys and fewer "no-no" items.
    I really wanted to be the kind of mom who "taught them how to behave and didn't child proof a lot." It got so overwhelming with twins that both climbed that we felt safetly overrode our original vision of how we were going to raise them. Then I will admit I got a bit lazy about the teaching part since we had the whole place locked down. But now, they do seem to be much more able to understand and comply so I guess it will all work out in the end.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from misslily. Show misslily's posts

    Re: Training a Climber to Behave

    CT - just read your latest post.  They've been able to climb into the highchairs since they were about 15 months old.  I never thought it was a good idea - I was worried they'd fall out turning themselves around in the chair. Our Graco chairs have a small tray that doesn't detach so you have to get up and over that to get into the chair. Now they do it no problem and I don't worry as much but at 15 months I had visions of bloodied heads on my tile floor.
    Of course DS has also tried to roll the highchair to the counter and use it as a ladder since he was little so for months I had to put the chairs behind a gate when not in use as well.  I'm sure everyone is thinking "what a bad mother...can't she teach her son to behave?" But he's like a monkey - always has been. His sister climbs also - but not as much. And she's always been better about behaving when I tell her "no." He's just starting to comply a little more - but I still have to keep an eye on him. We've started playgroup 2x a week and that has really helped.
    My dentist likes to comiserate with me - she once went to put the laundry in and when she came back to the kitchen her 2 year old son had climbed onto the table and was swinging from the light fixture. She actually tied her chairs to the table so he couldn't pull them out.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from CT-DC. Show CT-DC's posts

    Re: Training a Climber to Behave

    There are things you can put over round door knobs that make it hard for children to turn, but we can because we squeeze them. 

    www.safety1st.com/Products/Home-Safety/Home-Safety/Details/1890-48394-Grip-n-Twist-Door-Knob-Covers-4-Pack

    WHY when I copy a link does it not 'go blue' and stay a link?  sorry!


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from CT-DC. Show CT-DC's posts

    Re: Training a Climber to Behave

    And, frankly, I'm must more of a fan of the 'natural consequences' of taking away a toy for misbehavior than time out.  I think timeout is overused; it's better than beating children but it often doesn't get them to realize what they've done, they just fume (or run away, etc.) about how they are in timeout.

    I honestly think of timeout as 'time away' - that is, if you are throwing blocks, I warn you "no throwing, throwing hurts. Can you build a tall tower with me?"  then if they throw the blocks again, they are taken away from the blocks.  "You are throwing, throwing hurts.  let's go do something else for a little while." and get them into something active.  or encourage them to go throw something they CAN (have some small light balls to throw with, whatever).  Then later they can try again.  "Are you ready to try building with the blocks safely?"  And, yes, even if other children are building with blocks, the child needs to go away because s/he can't use the blocks safely.  But can come back and 'try again.'

    Otherwise all we do all day long is put children in timeout for every little infraction and then they spend most of the day in timeout and not learning what TO DO.  Because it's not really discipline, it's more like guidance.... we guide them to learn what TO DO, how to behave towards others, how to play in a fun but safe way, how to speak calmly, gently, nicely and not meanly or abusively, and how to listen, etc. etc. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from CT-DC. Show CT-DC's posts

    Re: Training a Climber to Behave

    And hurrah, misslily, he's getting it! they are both getting it! and, yes, adding things in slowly will get them successful at one thing, then you can add another thing - take lots of photos now so you can remember in a year that your livingroom, family room, etc. were empty and the chairs sat in timeout in the mudroom, etc!  Because when you have 31/2 yr olds and then 41/2 yr olds things will be so much different.... 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from misslily. Show misslily's posts

    Re: Training a Climber to Behave

     I always remember what you said about potty training: No one every went to kindergarten in diapers. I assume most of us are done with the gates by age 3 or 3.5.
    And while we were upstairs after nap it hit my like a ton of bricks why I don't like to be "out of earshot" from them.
    My kids wear really expensive tiny electronic devices - hearing aids - which are both choking hazards and really expensive to replace if they go down the loo or get put in the sink.
     Their diagnosis really affected my DH. He's hyper about safety - sort of compensating for the fact that he can't fix their hearing so he's going to fix everything else.  Probably crazy - but it makes him feel better I guess.
    And I have the doorknob covers. But ours have a hole in the middle and he pushes the doorknob lock button.  I'm reluctant to replace them all at this point - but I guess I may have to.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from CT-DC. Show CT-DC's posts

    Re: Training a Climber to Behave

    misslily, I forgot about the million dollar hearing aids - yes, if those went down the toilet you'd be so unhappy.  You'll just have to play it by ear (NO pun intended, sorry!) when you feel comfortable having your children out of earshot - and I understand your husband's reaction, especially because he isn't with them all day long so isn't probably as knowledgeable of their capabilities (and what type of mischief they can get into!) as you are.  It'll all work out.  At some point your being in the same room as they are, or always on the same floor, will become stifling and hovering and you'll back off.  When that will be is something you'll know when it happens!  For now, who could trust a 21/2 yr old with expensive hearing aids?  Heck, 3 yr olds cut their bangs all the time, never mind play sink and float with hearing aids!

    Do they keep them on better now than they used to? Do they wear them all the time or only when you leave the house (or only when home?) 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Lostgrouse. Show Lostgrouse's posts

    Re: Training a Climber to Behave

    My 3 y.o. cut her hair AT SCHOOL.  Fortuanately, it wasn't much.  My 16 m.o. carries his step stool around so he can climb up on things too.  I found him one day on top of his dresser.  He had climbed up on his pottery barn chair and then somehow hoisted himself onto the dresser.  He was so proud of himself!  Then we moved the chair and life has been good ever since.  

    Kids are crazy.  
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from misslily. Show misslily's posts

    Re: Training a Climber to Behave

    CTDC - we're not out of the woods yet with them pulling them out.  Since I have excellent hearing I can usually hear the feedback whistling happening when they start pulling them out.
    They have been wearing them at EI playgroup and I experimented and had them wear them in the car on the way home. They didn't mess with them, but I was thinking - I hope this isn't a big mistake while I was driving home.
    I did have to return our rentals and buy new ones last month. $8,400 later we're the proud owners of 4 Oticon Safari children's aids. They should last 4-5 years.
     When they get to kindergarten I can add the FM system which is about $1,000 per ear.

    And I do feel like I'd have to go through a whole new layer of childproofing to let them play upstairs by themselves. They love to get into my makeup. I put it on the bureau and they just moved a small chair to the bureau and stood on that. Short of installing shelving way up high I'm running out of places to put things out of reach! They love to make a pillow tower on my bed - whcih is cute, but sometimes I don't want to remake the bed 3 times a day. :) I figure playing with them upstairs (which we do after nap and sometimes in the morning) will help them learn what they can and cannot do. Eventually I know all the gates will come down and they will have free range of the house. There's no rush - they are only 2 1/2 after all.
     

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