Way OT - DH advice

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kiwiguy. Show Kiwiguy's posts

    Re: Way OT - DH advice

    It sounds to me like you have a bigger issue than just horizontal dancing. I'll be blunt here, so please try not to be too offended.

    Your DH needs to man up a bit and you are not going to help him do this by playing the 50's housewife and lubing up to "put out" even though you are too tired and not in the mood. That is not healthy for anybody. Some people say any publicity is good publicity and that may be true, but in my male opinion, any sex is not necessarily good sex unless your a teenager. Bad sex is going to have the same long term impact of no sex.

    But the bigger issue seems to be his inability to do anything of daily value around the house. He is a husband. He is a father. One of the great things about being a husband is that you get to make a home and live a life with the partner you love and respect. Part of that includes horizontal dancing, but it also comes with responsibilities around the house, sharing mundane daily, weekly, monthly chores. You can split that work any way you like, but it needs to be split. You are his wife and life partner. You are not his mother and he is not 12 years old. He is also a father and no doubt loves sharing the joys of seeing his babies grow and develop as all fathers do. But all that fun stuff also comes with responsibilities, such as changing diapers, getting up in the night as required, etc.

    You can believe that you are being the good wife by giving him a free pass on all of that, but at the end of the day you'll never be happy, and as the Prez has said, "If momma ain't happy, then nobody is happy". I think your horizontal dancing problem is not the real problem. The real problem is the inability of your DH to man up as a husband and father. That is what you need to be resolving.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from medfordcc. Show medfordcc's posts

    Re: Way OT - DH advice

    In Response to Re: Way OT - DH advice:
    [QUOTE]This shouldn't be about how YOU need to figure out how to change to make it all work.  This should be about how you BOTH can work together to figure out how to make it work for both of you.
    Posted by lissafro[/QUOTE]

    This is exactly what I wanted to say, but I didn't do it nearly as well.  Thanks, Lissa, for the phrasing.
    And sorry, Kar, for the earlier rant.   I stand by the premise, but I should have phrased it more politely.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Way OT - DH advice

    Why is there such disdain for the 50s wife?  A SAHM is a 50s wife, and it's not a put down, it's a blessing for their whole family.  Her 50s husband manned up when he took all the responsibility for the income.  If they both worked outside the home, neither of them would be 50s anything and more chores would be split down the middle like "today's" couples.   

    They call it making love for a reason - it fuels the fire.  And, without fuel, fires go out.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Way OT - DH advice

    med, I totally accept your apology and respect your point of view.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedFishBlueFish. Show RedFishBlueFish's posts

    Re: Way OT - DH advice

    Working outside the home for 8 or 10 hours a day and then expecting to do nothing at home is just plain not comparable to working an 18 hour day at home, because that's what a SAHM does. She's on, from the instant she wakes up until the instant she goes to sleep. There is no relaxing when the chores are done. Aside from the military, there aren't many jobs outside the home that are like that.

    If she's working 6am-9pm every day, without any help at all, and feels unloved, that's a problem too that is equally important. A conversation needs to happen. Without communication, nothing will be resolved.

    ETA: What it boils down to is what others have said: we all need alone time, "me" time to unwind. You deserve it. You deserve to feel loved, appreciated and valued, just as much as he does. However you choose to resolve it, remember that. It shouldn't be all about his needs or wants. It should be about both of you, because marriage is a team effort.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kiwiguy. Show Kiwiguy's posts

    Re: Way OT - DH advice

    In Response to Re: Way OT - DH advice:
    [QUOTE]Why is there such disdain for the 50s wife?  A SAHM is a 50s wife, and it's not a put down, it's a blessing for their whole family.  Her  50s husband manned up when he took all the responsibility for the income.  If they both worked outside the home, neither of them would be 50s anything and more chores would be split down the middle like "today's" couples.
    Posted by kargiver[/QUOTE]

    I'll just assume you aren't a feminist. But seriously.

    You are here on a Mom's parenting board suggesting that because the OP is fortunate enough to be in a position to be a SAHM, she should thank the lucky stars that her hunter gatherer husband is out bringing home the bacon, and by golly she had better have the house spick and span, the kids sleeping in bed and dinner on the table when he gets home because that is her end of the bargain? I'm not sure if that is 50's or Victorian era.

    As for it being a blessing for the whole family, are you suggesting that if mothers really cared for their husband and children they wouldn't work at all?

    Finally - are you implying that being a fulltime mother of twins (if I understand correctly that the OP has twins) is not a job equal to or as worthy as DH's income generating job? I suspect the OP works VERY HARD inside the home, hence her lack of energy at the end of the day.

    I think my brain just exploded while trying to comprehend whatever it was you were trying to say there.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Way OT - DH advice

    I didn't imply those things, and admittedly I'm an old fashioned gal and it makes me happy.  No time to really respond, now, though - my in-laws are dropping in (they called 2 hours ago) in an hour.  Apologies for leaving mid discussion.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from poppy609. Show poppy609's posts

    Re: Way OT - DH advice

    Is Misslily a SAHM?  I missed that.  Not that it matters! I wouldn't change my posts.

    But I do think there is somewhat of a difference between being a SAHP and doing the majority of the household "chores" (including diapers) and being a full-time working parent (in a 2-full-time-working-parents household) and still being the only parent doing the majority of the household chores... both can be issues, although I think they are different.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from misslily. Show misslily's posts

    Re: Way OT - DH advice

    Yes I am a SAHM. Yes I do all the cooking, cleaning up, laundry etc.  DH goes to the dump on Saturday and does the "handy man" stuff.
    My parents come once a week to help out too.

    I'm glad you're all so outraged on my behalf.  I would like my DH to step up and do more on a daily basis.  But I don't want to bicker about chores all the time either.  Trying to find a way to make him feel more secure will also make all of us happy once we get back on track. 

    Keeping my marriage intact is more important than who matches socks.  I don't want my twins growing up without their dad, I don't want to go back to work and put them in daycare.  I had the higher paying job before the twins came so I think the drop in income has made DH feel the pressure "to provide".  I want us to work as a team - and by taking the first step and meeting his needs - I'm sure he'll start to meet mine too.
    I do get to sleep in on Saturdays sometimes. He didn't even come get me last time when DS threw up his whole breakfast into the high chair.

    We were in a Sunday naptime groove for a while, not sure what happened, but I'm try to get back on schedule there.
     
    Thanks again - everyone.  I've gotten lots of good advice - and felt better about some negative feelings I was having too.  Every post has been really helpful!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: Way OT - DH advice

    I think Kar has a point. If you are a SAHM, you are responsible for household tasks. That is your job 100%. Your job is also to take care of the kids during the day.  Your DH is also a father and should participate in the care  of his children.  I think it more than fair that he either take them out on the weekends or take over bath and bedtime during the week.  This will free up mom to either complete household tasks, or use that time to relax. I personally do not think it fair that one expects dad to do indoor household tasks such as laundry or dishes if he has a SAHM.

    I was a SAHW for a year and a half b/c I quit my job to marry my DH. He is military and we moved to a location where I was not barred [I'm an attorney}. I practically had to physically restrain him from doing household tasks when we first got married. I told him when I had a job outside the home we could reassess. We moved, I am employed FT as an attorney and we have redivided the labor.  If I were not working or were a SAHM, I would again insist that he not do household tasks. 

    If your DH wants to pitch in and do some household tasks, that's great, but I do think he is justified in feeling that it is not his job while he has a SAHM. I do think he should pitch in more w/ his kids b/c they are his kids too and he should spend some one on one alone time w/ them.
     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from lissafro. Show lissafro's posts

    Re: Way OT - DH advice

    In Response to Re: Way OT - DH advice:
    [QUOTE] . We were in a Sunday naptime groove for a while, not sure what happened, but I'm try to get back on schedule there.  
    Posted by misslily[/QUOTE]
    It's the heat.  Midday snuggling is better during sweater and sock weather.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from poppy609. Show poppy609's posts

    Re: Way OT - DH advice

    Oh boy, I hope my post wasn't taken the wrong way.  I don't think that a SAHP should have to shoulder 100% of the household chores, unless that was specifically the agreement.  I don't think that should be an assumed part of the job.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from kiwigal. Show kiwigal's posts

    Re: Way OT - DH advice

    In Response to Re: Way OT - DH advice:
    [QUOTE]  If your DH wants to pitch in and do some household tasks, that's great, but I do think he is justified in feeling that it is not his job while he has a SAHM. I do think he should pitch in more w/ his kids b/c they are his kids too and he should spend some one on one alone time w/ them.
    Posted by ALF72[/QUOTE]

    I think this is a Freudian slip, ALF. MrLily doesn't "have" a SAHM (well, he might, but I'd bet his mother's schedule is a bit more flexible than MissLily's these days...), he has a WIFE who is a stay-at-home mother. That's the point a number of posters have been making here. Lily is there to mother his children, not mother him.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from purplecow89. Show purplecow89's posts

    Re: Way OT - DH advice

    You say you are concerned about keeping your marriage intact.  If you're concerned he's going to take off if you ask him to pitch in occasionally and stop demanding you put out when he pleases, then you've got bigger problems than who matches the socks.

    Why did you leave the higher paying job to stay home, instead of him?  Now there's a can of worms for you.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedFishBlueFish. Show RedFishBlueFish's posts

    Re: Way OT - DH advice

    Being a SAHW and SAHM are similar, but not the same. Chores can wait if you need a break. Kids can't, especially not toddlers. That's the critical difference. There does need to be some team effort.

    Lissafro is right, too, especially if you don't have AC. It's a lot more enticing to generate heat under the covers when it's cold outside. When the mercury gets up in the 90s or higher, I don't want to move any more than what's minimally necessary.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: Way OT - DH advice

    In Response to Re: Way OT - DH advice:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Way OT - DH advice : I think this is a Freudian slip, ALF. MrLily doesn't "have" a SAHM (well, he might, but I'd bet his mother's schedule is a bit more flexible than MissLily's these days...), he has a WIFE who is a stay-at-home mother. That's the point a number of posters have been making here. Lily is there to mother his children, not mother him.
    Posted by kiwigal[/QUOTE]

    No, it wasn't. I actually noticed that but didn't change it. I figured most people would understand what I meant w/o nitpicking for the sake of arguing about gender roles.  She is mother to his children not to him.  She is also a stay at home wife. her job is to take care of the household. That includes doing this laundry - that doesn't make her his mother.  You apparently feel differently.  That's generally the arrangement when one spouse decides to stay home to mind the children and the household. They take care of those tasks.  Doing so does not make her his mother  -it makes her a housewife. Some people seem to think that being a housewife is a bad thing. I am not one of them. It is a hard job, but so is working outside the home. If two spouses want to share household chores even though one is staying home w/ the children, that's their prerogative.  But I think it patently unfair to expect the spouse who works outside the home to take on household tasks when the other spouse does not work outside the home.  Childcare responsibilities are a horse of a different color. He is a dad and should take on more childcare responsibilites than it sounds like he is. 

    I'm not suggesting that she become June Cleaver and have a spotless house. I am saying, like some guy, that she keep the house relatively organized and clean. If he pitches in occasionally, great, but I think it unfair to expect it on a regular basis.

    And I'm so sorry that I haven't had the ability to actually carry a child to term yet.  Apparently I am not allowed to suggest that a SAHM do her job and take care of the house b/c I could not possibly have any idea how hard it is.  I know it's hard.  If he is expecting a perfect house and a wife who is ready to be bed 24/7, then he is expecting too much.  But expecting not to reguarly do household tasks is entirely w/in the realm of understanding. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Leila32. Show Leila32's posts

    Re: Way OT - DH advice

    Very interesting discussion here – it’s nice to see the male point of view as well. 

    DH and I split the housework, as we both work full-time currently, but I still end up doing a bit more.  However, if I were a SAHM I can’t see DH expecting me to do everything just because I’m home.  I can’t imagine he’d never do another load of laundry, or run to the grocery store, or every empty the dishwasher again.

    For those who said because she is a SAHM she should be responsible for all chores, what if her DH was at home?  There was a recent post (I think by Krystabel) where she mentioned her husband would be staying home when their baby was born, and many posters said something to the effect of “just don’t expect everything to be done/clean when you get home.”  Why not, if that’s what is expected of a woman?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: Way OT - DH advice

    In Response to Re: Way OT - DH advice:
    [QUOTE]Very interesting discussion here – it’s nice to see the male point of view as well.   DH and I split the housework, as we both work full-time currently, but I still end up doing a bit more.   However, if I were a SAHM I can’t see DH expecting me to do everything just because I’m home.   I can’t imagine he’d never do another load of laundry, or run to the grocery store, or every empty the dishwasher again. For those who said because she is a SAHM she should be responsible for all chores, what if her DH was at home?   There was a recent post (I think by Krystabel) where she mentioned her husband would be staying home when their baby was born, and many posters said something to the effect of “just don’t expect everything to be done/clean when you get home.”   Why not, if that’s what is expected of a woman?
    Posted by Leila32[/QUOTE]

    I would 100% expect the husband who was staying home to take care of everything.  As a stay at home spouse, that is his job. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from cwagner13. Show cwagner13's posts

    Re: Way OT - DH advice

    From what I remember when I was on my 3 month leave (and when DH did his 3 month leave to stay home after I went back to work), even if it is the SAHP's job to mainly take care of the baby and chores, by the time the spouse came home the SAHP was ready to turn the baby over to the returning spouse and the returning spouse was tired from a day of work... so those few hours until DS's bedtime would be tough because each of us were tired (SAHP from just seeing nothing but baby, home and chores while working spouse was tired from dealing with office stuff). It did help when we tried to give the SAHP even just 10-15 minutes to themselves (read, go for a short walk etc) while the other spouse played with the baby.


    For those months, we had split some things (for instance the spouse who went to the office would come home and get to play with the baby while the other spouse cleaned up and did a few chores, and in the morning, we would trade so the spouse who worked would sleep later while the other spouse got up to workout earlier).  This allowed us some time to work in snuggle time. (unfortunately, we then hit a snag with DH needing some surgeries, so all the focus for him became centered on getting through those first - we did have long breaks anyway with no BD).


    We both work now, and split up the tasks. I come home with DS and turn over the feeding and play to DH (DH loves this the most, and since I get the nursing time with him, I see this as a way for them two to bond) while I wash up all the breastpump stuff, then we do the bath and I do his bedtime routine while DH tosses something onto the stove. If he is tired, I clean up. If I have to work or am tired, he cleans up. Since we have to get DS down for sleep by 6:30-7, we find moments when we both are not too tired. And I do have a local teenager coming once every week for 2 hours - which I use to get lots of chores done and setup for the week, so that we have time in the evening to relax and snuggle. Also, I kick my husband out of bed for his workouts - he does so much better when he has a workout even when he grumbles in the morning, and he always has more energy to make it through the day and evening routine.

    I would definitely recommend if possible to see if you have a neighborhood kid who can watch the kids for a few hours on the weekend, or help with chores.

    If possible - although I do not know much more laundry twins generate, get as much clothes to make it through a week. Or get bins for each type of article and toss the clean clothes into each bin (not like the baby cares if the clothes are folded in a drawer or tossed in a bin) - so like one for onsies, one for night clothes, one for pants, one for shirts etc. Some shortcuts like that. Then maybe the chores will not seem as long or onerous for both of you.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedFishBlueFish. Show RedFishBlueFish's posts

    Re: Way OT - DH advice

    I actually completely agree with you, ALF. My post might have seemed to suggest otherwise, but I think we're on pretty much the same page.

    If she's doing all of the work all of the time, household and kids, and he's getting a free pass on weeknights on both parenting and housekeeping, that's not fair.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from kiwigal. Show kiwigal's posts

    Re: Way OT - DH advice

    In Response to Re: Way OT - DH advice:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Way OT - DH advice : I would 100% expect the husband who was staying home to take care of everything.  As a stay at home spouse, that is his job. 
    Posted by ALF72[/QUOTE]

    OK, this is the part that is getting lost in translation. There is a huge difference, as RedFish noted (as well as some others) between being a SAH spouse and a SAH parent. If you considered SAH a full-time job when you did it, imagine adding a baby/toddler or TWO to the mix. Both things are full-time jobs and there are simply not enough hours in the day to do both or do both well. That's the point.

    And for the record, I DO think any grown adult who expects all his/her laundry done for them and all food provided for them all the time, etc. is expecting to be parented. Grown-ups are capable of doing all these tasks when the need arises.

    Also, I know a LOT of families where the division of labor between SAH/Working Outside the Home parents is not 100%/0%. I dare say your point of view is the exception, not the rule. Hence the responses you are seeing here.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from kiwigal. Show kiwigal's posts

    Re: Way OT - DH advice

    In Response to Re: Way OT - DH advice:
    [QUOTE]And I'm so sorry that I haven't had the ability to actually carry a child to term yet.  Apparently I am not allowed to suggest that a SAHM do her job and take care of the house b/c I could not possibly have any idea how hard it is.  I know it's hard.  If he is expecting a perfect house and a wife who is ready to be bed 24/7, then he is expecting too much.  But expecting not to reguarly do household tasks is entirely w/in the realm of understanding. 
    Posted by ALF72[/QUOTE]

    The ONLY reason I am commenting on this is because you posted this in a response to my post. NOWHERE did I say that your point is invalid because you do not have a baby. I'm genuinely sorry for your loss, but please don't imply that my disagreement is a dig at your TTC struggles. That's untrue and unfair.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: Way OT - DH advice

    I actually didn't consider it a full time job when I did it. I volunteered heavily outside of the home when I wasn't working b/c I was bored out of my mind.  And that was after I had everything spi-c [really, BDC?] and span.

    If people want to arrange their home lives a certain way, that's great. I would expect the couple to discuss their expectations or assumptions about what a stay at home spouse will do before the spouse gives notice.  All jobs are hard.  Some days are harder than others. 

    I would expect my husband to do everything I did while I wasn't working if he retired and I was still working.  I grew up in a household w/ a SAHM who went back to work when we were older.  The kids [all girls] pitched in. My dad, who had his 70th birthday yesterday, does not do household work. Well, he grocery shops but that's only b/c he loves coupons and loves to crow about how much money he saved by buying X in store Y rather than store Z. lol. Perhaps I am more traditonal minded. I know I am more so than my DH.  His parents were divorced when he was very young and he has always pitched in w/ household chores.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: Way OT - DH advice

    In Response to Re: Way OT - DH advice:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Way OT - DH advice : The ONLY reason I am commenting on this is because you posted this in a response to my post. NOWHERE did I say that your point is invalid because you do not have a baby. I'm genuinely sorry for your loss, but please don't imply that my disagreement is a dig at your TTC struggles. That's untrue and unfair.
    Posted by kiwigal[/QUOTE]
    i understand that.  That actually wasn't directed at you  -it was directed at another poster who said SAHW and SAHM are 2 different things. She probably didn't mean it that way, but I took it that way.  There seems to be an assumption by some [probably not by either you or her and I'm just being overly sensitive] that childless women do not understand how time consuming children are.  I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to see that infants and toddlers take up an enormous amount of time and energy. 

    Anyway, I'm sorry that you thought I was taking a stab at you. And I apologize to the other poster in advance who probably didnt' mean that. I'm not having the best day. We moved and my commute is that much longer - in DC traffic, 5 miles is a huge difference. I'm hoping to acclimate sooner rather htan later. Of course, when my office moves in Sept I will have the sweetest commute in the office and will have no excuse for being a beyotch.  :-)
     

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