Non Compliance in Preschoolers

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    I'm not judging you poorly at all just trying to teach you that it's conceptually impossible to repeat a command; that once it is repeated it ceases in the mind of the person the command is aimed at (of any age) to be a command at all, it becomes, by default, a suggestion.  Does that make sense?  It's not just kids - any time a command is repeated without consequence it ceases to be a command no matter how it sounds to the one repeating it.

    Choosing WHICH shoes to wear is not the same as giving them a choice to ignore you (the default caused by repeating yourself).
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Discretion is the better part of valor.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ml2620-2. Show ml2620-2's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    Wow, this is a great post! I have a similar problem, and DD will be 3 in August. Non compliance is a challenge.

    We definitely practice natural consequences. She's also learned she has a window of opportunity to make a choice, so when you say "please put on your shoes," she gets to choose her shoes. But there comes a point (after 4-5 requests) where I have to be out the door and she gets swooped up and put in the car. When we get where she needs to go, I put the shoes I've chosen on her feet and that's that, her chance to have control of the situation ends, she doesn't get to choose shoes, hat, coat or what toy she'll bring with her, she doesn't get to walk out to the car and climb into the carseat by herself. I'll tell her, "you are running out of time to make your choices." and that seems to work well.

    I do have to say I think I have an easy, easy kid, but I think the behavior you are experiencing is very common, and with two the same age they definitely egg each other on. It's really like having three kids, because you are dealing with each of them, and also the dynamic between them.

    KMMZ, I remember my grandmother washing my mouth out with soap and I swear to you that you BOTH will look back on this with laughter someday, but I also know that feeling of not wanting to be "that mom." You can't be perfect all of the time, and you are teaching your son a great deal about having to make hard choices.

    ML, Mama to 1 beautiful girl! age 2.9 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from KMMZ1012. Show KMMZ1012's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    I will say, as much as we all hate the way our kids are behaving, it's nice to know we're not alone.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from poppy609. Show poppy609's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    KMMZ - don't beat yourself up! I agree, you had to follow through, and he is not going to be scarred. What I took away from your post is that after that happened, you spent the evening with him and sent the message that you love him. I personally think that is very important, to distinguish (to the child) between not liking a behavior and not liking the child.

     

    CT, I love your posts. DH is going out tonight; I think I'll curl up with some wine and my laptop and really read through them fully! (since I only have time to scan all of these most of the time)

     

    I have to laugh about the "giving choices" thing. Every time I give DD a choice between two things, she suggests a third thing. EVERY time. I have to appreciate her ingenuity.

     

    We do a lot of what Misslily mentioned - "if you don't do X, you don't get Y" even if they are unrelated ("if you don't hang up your coat, you don't get that cookie you wanted. Listening and hanging up your coat is good behavior.") and talk a lot about good behavior versus bad behavior (a lot of defining of both terms). I'd agree with CT and say it works about 30% of the time. Of course, our issue at her age is that she wants to do everything herself, but can't! It's AGONIZINGLY slow to get anywhere!!

     

    Do any of your kids say, "Stop talking, Mommy," when you're discussing behavior? DD has just started doing this. I feel like it's her way of saying, "Ok, ok, I GET it!"

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    My husband says that...not the Mommy part, lol, just the I got it, stop talking part. I know, it's hard to imagine that I might tend to harp.  ;)
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Discretion is the better part of valor.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from KAM2007. Show KAM2007's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    CT-DS acts super great in special situations-hence the packing for and at the hotel-he was so excited about seeing his grandparents, and had been given his own piece of luggage and was excited to use it. Get him at dinner time and he's a hot mess.

    Hence my suggestion to give them special roles. DS really responds to that. At the mall DS is like every other 4 year old running around etc., at the airport DS knows it's game time and he is by our side acting like an angel.

    Someone else pointed out the importance of remembering the high points of the day-even the tough days.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from lissafro. Show lissafro's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    This is a great thread. KMMZ is right, misery loves company ha.


    To add to all the things everyone has suggested, it's a great idea to start praising kids when they do something correctly without being told.  I'm not talking about obnoxiously lavishing praise on a kid for following basic instructions.  It only really works if you surprise them with it.  For example, if I were to ask DD to put on her shoes or take a bathroom break or wahtever, I wouldn't make a big deal about it when she follows directions. But if she does something on her own wtihout prompting I try to make sure I praise her and thank her.  I usually try to phrase it to include something like "I really appreciate when you _____ because then it makes is a lot easier to _____.  Thanks!" or "When you _____ it helped me ______.  thanks!" or "Oh, baby sister was up again last night and I'm so tired!  Thank you so much for helping!  We're a great team!"

    I'll also, after a full day of successes, make sure I tell DH how helpful DD was (of course when she is there and hears the praise and gets a second boost from DH).  I only do it when it is truly deserved though. I don't make stuff up or try to fill some sort of praise quota.  There are plenty of days there is nothing to thank her for ha.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from luvRIboy. Show luvRIboy's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers


    I've noticed that we do a lot better at restaurants for lunch than we do for dinner...DD (2.5) is usually hungrier for lunch, so wants to eat, and the service is usually faster.  If we do dinner, I order an app right away...most of the time it's really DD's dinner, since she'd rather eat hummous and veggies or calamari than most of the kids meals...and then make sure that DH or I get something for an entree that she'll eat...having the food come early and then keep coming really helps.  So does the promise of ice cream at the end of the meal! 

    I agree about praising the good parts of the day and focusing on them.  It's a lot harder sometimes to reinforce the good, but it's so important. 

    Funny story...DD has a tendency to be "playing" with her brother (9 mos) and then ending their play time by pushing him.  Usually I'm on the floor with them and can see the signs and intervene before it happens, but there are times she beats me to it.  Sometimes it's done in the act of playing (clap hands! gets too hard, or something), but there have been a couple of times that it is just a push.  When that happens, she gets a time out on our steps.  To put it in perspective, in the 3 months DS has been sitting up, she's had about 5 timeouts for this.  Well yesterday, I was holding both kids in my lap, reading to them, and accidentally whacked DS with the book and he started to cry.  DD's first reaction: "Do you need a time out, Mommy?"  I almost laughed out loud...but it did lead to a nice chat with her about the time out offenses vs. the accidents.  :) 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from medfordcc. Show medfordcc's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    Thanks for all the good ideas, CT, Kar, misslily, and everyone else!  And yes, it's good to read that we are not alone!

    This is bizarre, but one thing that's been helping me lately is the TV show Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood.  DD just started watching it recently and she LOVES it.  A good % of the segments have a lesson, and often there is a little one-line song that goes with it.  Like when it's time to stop playing, there's "that was fun, but now it's done!"  Et cetera.  Anyway, referring to the show and/or singing the songs seems to help DD get in line.  She particularly perks up if she hears a song line.  Of course, on the show, once the teacher or parents manage the situation, the kids shape up, so there is no help in the "consequences" department, other than ones that occur organically (e.g. Daniel misses the trolley to school because he was playing instead of getting ready).  I guess another caveat is that DD is only 2y10m.  I'm not sure if the show would be as appealing to a 4 year old.  But it's good for now, and it's not intolerable for me to watch either.  :)

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ml2620-2. Show ml2620-2's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    Oh, Med... the times we've sat at the dinner table singing "you've got to try new things 'cause they might taste gooooood! Oh, I love Daniel. Singing the lyric totally makes a difference!

    Mama to 1 beautiful girl! age 2 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from framerican51008. Show framerican51008's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    Some great suggestions here - thanks all!  Off hand, the biggest things DD fights me on are changing clothes and brushing teeth.  Most of the time she's well behaved, but the terrible 3s haven't arrived yet.  I'm probably not enlightening anyone here since you have children older than DD (27 months), but one thing I do is to start out with the reins as tight as possible and loosen them gradually.  So if we're at the grocery store, she goes in the front of the cart and I get as much done as I can before she gets antsy.  Then when she asks to walk, I convince her she'd like to sit in the back of the cart.  She'll be content in the back of the cart until about the last 5 minutes of shopping when she wants to "help me push" it.  Now, I suppose I could be really strict and only allow the option of sitting up front, but to me it doesn't make much of a difference.  If this routine makes grocery shopping easier on me and more enjoyable for her, why not?  There have absolutely been times where I had to scoop her up and put her in the front and deal with her wailing for a couple minutes.

    Has anyone read any good info on how to praise or reprimand a child "the right way"?  I think you're supposed to praise their actions, for example, instead of focusing on their being a good girl/boy, but I could stand to read up on it... DD may be an only and I'm worried I'm going to spoil her rotten with praise for being my good/beautiful/smart/baby/big girl.  I recently asked about this book and it's coming to mind again: Between Parent and Child.  I should probably just buy it already!

    KMMZ - I totally feel for you!!  I'm sure your DS knows he is well loved and in the long run having consequences and boundaries will be so good for him.  I used to take care of my nephew a lot and I still remember a day (probably 10 years ago!) when he was being difficult and his ice cream was dripping all over and I just lost it.  I literally want to call my friend who was there and tell her I was/am not like that all the time and I am a good mommy!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from misslily. Show misslily's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers


    We sing Daniel Tiger too. My DD brought it up herself the other day. "Choose one more thing and then we're done." she crooned when I told her "one more minute".

    I will say my kids have been better this week. I do think the If...then thing is helping too. And I try and make sure to make it a positive choice so I usually start with the good thing. "If you want to watch Caillou, we need to finish lunch." not "Eat your lunch or you can't watch Caillou"

    And I tried having one walk and one ride at the grocery store - DS hates to ride so I started with DD - but she's gotten too big! She complained (rightly) that the seat was too short and hurt her legs. So they both walked and with lots of reminders did pretty well.

    And remembering to ask and then help them along right away - it's hard with two, but I even reminded Dh to do it the other day. So he told DS to get dressed, started helping him get dressed and when DS started to wander off in the middle said, "Finish getting dressed and then we can build a lego tower until it's time to go." It worked great.

    I do think parents are different now - although I am as old as CT-DC and my mother never spanked me or gave me a time out either. She did count, "I'm going to count to three..." (which I also do sometimes). And all the parenting books do recommend a softer approach. I agree that few teach proper manners to elders and I don't know why. I think it's the boomers who never grew up themselves "I'm not Mrs. Jones, that's my MIL - call me Sally." I'm still appalled by the boys (and girls) outfits coming out of the middle school - all baggy basketball shorts and horrible t-shirts. How can anyone learn anything about manners and respect when they can't even put on proper clothes in the morning? I'm going to freak out when DS wants to dress like that - he's so cute in his polos and khakis.

    Anyway - I love all the suggestions and knowing that I'm not alone in my struggle to help my children function properly in society.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    Not ALL parents struggle with this...they are called BAD parents, people who think it's a parenting success to merely allow their kids to get older and leave the house alive.  Given that your bar is far higher, you struggle to actually raise your kids, like every other parent that cares and takes their responsibility seriously.  And, this first year without your mom to call for guidance and support must be exceedingly difficult to add to the "regular" difficulty of raising LOs.

    Great news some tips have paid off and everyone is happier in the Lily home. :)
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Discretion is the better part of valor.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from luvRIboy. Show luvRIboy's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers


    Loving the Daniel Tiger and Caillou references.  THey are both big hits in our house, too, as is Super Why, all of the sudden. 

    I think parenting is always a struggle.  No matter what we do, there are always a million other options to how we could do it, from the moment they're born until they're our age!  So much of it is finding what works for you, for your family, for your temperament, for your lifestyle, and then being consistent about it. 

    I remember as a kid, the worst thing I ever heard from my dad was that he was disappointed in me...I don't remember what I'd done, but something dumb, probably, and hearing that was the worst punishment I could receive.  I've tried to live my life so that I'll never hear that again, and I haven't.  I also remember my dad once saying to me (could well have been in that same conversation) that I shouldn't do anything I'd be ashamed to tell him, and I think that's a great guideline...works from when you're little through adulthood! 

    I hope my kids feel that same sense of security that I have, knowing that no matter what they do, I'll always love them.  I know too many people who don't have that sense of unconditional love from their parents, and it's something that follows you throughout your life. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from KAM2007. Show KAM2007's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    Luv-that is exactly what I want my kids to use as a moral compas, what would they be embarassed to tell us they did/didn't do.

    I also want to perfect the "look" that my mother had. when she gave me that look, she had to say nothing, I just knew I was in trouble! I try to give the look now and my kids laugh and give me silly faces back. sigh.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from poppy609. Show poppy609's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    Lily - glad to hear about your successes!

    We tried to find Daniel over the weekend, but as far as I can tell it's not on On Demand. So disappointed! Going to try to DVR it. We (I) are in serious need of new toddler shows after banning Caillou.*

    Luv - that's exactly the type of influence DH and I hope to have on our kids; that they care if they disappoint us with their behavior.

    I got a parenting compliment from a good friend I saw yesterday, and it made me unexpectedly well up! It's nice to feel like, even if only for a moment at a time, you're maybe doing something right.

    *If your kids watch Caillou and sleep in a bed (not crib), don't let them watch "After Dark"!!

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from CT-DC. Show CT-DC's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    oh, caillou!  that show makes me want to chew my arm off, although of course the telletubbies is far worse - I think I actually had teeth marks on my arm after seeing one episode.

    I accidently found Daniel Tiger a few weeks ago and had a moment - missed the real Mr. Rogers, actually was tearing up at his loss.  (yes, I've been to the Pittsburgh children's museum to see the real puppets, said hi to Henrietta Pussycat, X the Owl and the rest.  I actually named one of my cats (an orange tiger, natch) Daniel Striped Tiger - but he refused to wear multiple watches, to my chagrin.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from misslily. Show misslily's posts

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    I'm ready to ban Calliou - my DD has started whining in his exact voice (I don't WANT to go to bed!). And she pretends to be Rosie too. "Kitty pretty!" she yells in a whiny voice. It makes me totally crazy.

    When I need a good TV show - I always look for Curious George. He's my absolute favorite. I love every episode.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from luvRIboy. Show luvRIboy's posts

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    LOVE Curious George.  Unfortunately, he and Daniel Tiger are not on demand.  Caillou is.  And sometimes at around 5:30-6 PM, when I'm trying to get dinner together, the rapt attention to the TV is just what I need...even if it is Caillou.  :)  Also, she's started getting into Super Why lately too...which I love because it's all about reading and finding answers to life's questions in books...she's a little young for it, but she can find the letters and likes interacting with the show. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from framerican51008. Show framerican51008's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers


    Speaking of TV shows... The one upside of switching DD to a center (so far) is that there will be no TV.  Supposedly they very rarely watch TV at her home daycare and yet all of a sudden she knows all of the Dora characters, yells "super shapes!", and asks for Max and Ruby and Umi Zoomi (sp?).  What show does super shapes come from?  At home, DD usually watches Mickey Mouse Clubhouse, but also occasionally watches 3rd and Bird or Jake and the Neverland Pirates.  I try to keep it to 2 episodes per day, but that kind of depends on how early she wakes up or how exhausted I am.  The good thing about MMC is that it teaches shapes and that kind of stuff. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from medfordcc. Show medfordcc's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    Any chance they have Dora books?  My DD knows all the characters from her books but has never seen the show.  Not sure about the other things.

    I feel sentimental about Mr. Rogers as well... That's why I started Daniel Tiger, and happily both DD and I enjoy it!

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from CT-DC. Show CT-DC's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    Not to go off too much on Caillou, but in grad school I took a children's media class and did a study of that show re; gender stereotyping, and man, is it rife with it!  Caillou always goes exploring with Daddy, and baby Rosie is never part of this (yeah, I know, Rosie is a baby, but still, she coudn't sometimes be on Daddy's shoulders when they explore the park?)  And if someone is going to be scared, it's baby Rosie or another girl.  And Mommy never goes on adventures (there was one on a train - Mommy stayed in the seat taking care of Rosie and Daddy and Caillou walked all over the train, learning about trains.  Mommy does push the stroller to the park and they run into a child there, but then it's all about "being nice."  Anyway, I watched way too many episodes for a woman without children to watch, doing counts, and by the end of it I was livid.

    So.  AND he has that kinda annoying voice.

    I used to like Bear in the Big Blue House.  I find blues clues annoying (those people overact -is it that necessary to contort your face like that? we can see you, it's tv!) but the preschool kids do love it.  I found it funny how many ASL signs they used as they spoke, and how much gestures they used - I always wondered if Steve was fluent in ASL or had a deaf brother/sister or something.  Is it still on?  the reading lions on the library is good (probably not still on) but it's for older children. 

    Ahh... Picture Picture, Medford! Remember learning about how to make a calliope horse, and how crayons were made, and lots of other stuff - it was the first "How it's Made" show, before The Discover channel or NATGEO channel.  And the traffic light?  And feeding the fish? And Speedy Delivery and all the rest of his friends? 

    the good thing about Dora is the bilingualism and that Dora is a girl and explores, but has a friend, etc.  I like the idea that Dora speaks both languages and that's just not a big "issue" of the show.  What I don't like is all the commercialization - the books (that is NOT literature, guys!), toys, stuffed animals, blah blah from so much of kids' tv. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from framerican51008. Show framerican51008's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    CT - Mickey Mouse Clubhouse is terrible with the commercialism too.  Any books I've purchased have basically been a crappy synopsis of an episode.  I skim them so I can just get them over with.  I'm in trouble when DD learns to read along with me!

    Med - That is a good point about Dora books, etc.  I gave daycare the benefit of the doubt until DD started talking about all those other shows.  But they also do art activities and spend a lot of time outdoors.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from lissafro. Show lissafro's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    We don't have cable so we don't have on demand.  When I need to get my 4 year old to sit still so I can comb and braid her hair in the morning I got to the sesame street website.  They have streaming clips.  They are organized into playlists by character.  Plus, because they are little clips, I can say "this is the last one" and turn it off after we're done with her hair. 

    I also like to put on cooking shows.  DD loves watching them.  We cook a lot together and she is very interested in it.  Also, I think she really likes watching the procedure of them putting recipes together in steps.  She also loves watching Ask This Old House, also full of step-by-step procedures.  The only dangerous thing is that she then gets ideas for things for me to make.  Her birthday cake this year was much more involved than I would have chosen since she got the idea from a cooking show ha.

    For Christmas, I got Sound of Music and Mary Poppins on DVD.  I can skip ahead to certain songs and play just that scene or I can tell her "we're only watching up to the kiss in the gazebo today" so she's not watching too much.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from CT-DC. Show CT-DC's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    When I taught toddlers years ago (as in, they are now in college, lol) I had a child who loved this old house.  he'd get his toddler tools (plastic hammer, screwdriver, drill) and put them on his tool belt, then sit and watch an entire episode! (his parents reported this at home, we didn't have tv at the center, obviously).  and he just loved to use our tools and tap on things all day long.  We had a handy man who would come and fix things and Matthew would be UP INSIDE this poor man - he literally could feel Matthew's breath on the back of his neck when he was fixing something - we actually had to move him back because it wasn't safe.  All the other kids were nervous around this stranger, but not my fixit toddler!

     
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