Non Compliance in Preschoolers

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from IPWBride. Show IPWBride's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    CT, you just explained my son  :-). Every truck we drive by, "do you think they have screwdrivers in there?"  And his classroom potty broke and we heard for a week about the guy who came to fix the potty, with his screwdriver, of course!!  

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from medfordcc. Show medfordcc's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    I like the idea of the "how to" grown up shows.

    I could use some tips (or maybe just knowing I'm not alone!) related to the original topic.  As I said on the other thread, DD (almost 3) is having a hard transition to the preschool room at daycare.  Well, last week went much better while she was there, but getting her ready was AWFUL.  When I woke her up, she asked right away if it was a daycare day and then flat out refused to get up.  She's always a pain/slow in the AM, but nothing worked this time, not one more stretch or counting or reminding her there would be no time to play.  Nope.  So ultimately I had to physically drag her out of bed and get her ready.  She screamed the entire time that she wanted to stay home and to stop touching her.  Brief pause for breakfast and then same deal for sunblock and shoes.  In a way I think she just needed to get that out before the day started, but I felt awful.  Physically making her do something while she screamed... it was horrible.  I can't let her stay home, but I'm dreading daycare days this week.

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    She will dread that routine, too, med, and if you tell her, "Mom can drag you kicking and screaming like a baby, or you can act like the grown up girl you are and get ready on your own, but either way YOU ARE GOING," she'll eventually decide that doing it herself is better than being dragged.  You did the right thing imo, keep it up.

    Discretion is the better part of valor.
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from KAM2007. Show KAM2007's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    med-I think part of it is the age. DS at 3 was horrible to get up and get dressed for the day. And he liked school-had a consistent schedule (all 5 days are preschool/daycare). It was a daily battle and exhausting! Being consistent in your approach, and aging out of it will help.But I really just think it was aging out of it that worked.  Plus for us the summer was easier, DS loves to wear shorts, so that always made it easier to tell him he got to wear shorts/short sleeves. But trust me, there were plenty of days we were leaving and DS was still in his jammies, running to get dressed. Getting him to go to the bathroom was the hardest-you physically can't make someone pee!

    Not to discourage you, but we tried it all, reward charts, consistency, phycially doing it for him through his protests, time outs, more sleep, and it didn't work. 3 years old was way worse than 2 years old!


  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from medfordcc. Show medfordcc's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    Thanks, guys.  Kar, I appreciate that!  I felt like I did what I had to do (and even after the fact haven't come up with a reasonable alternative), but I just was so unhappy to have to do it.  I was actually proud of myself that I remained calm throughout, but it was miserable.

    KAM - thanks for sharing your experience, good to know I'm not the only one!  I wonder if I might have better luck once she really starts getting dressed by herself?  Like maybe I can make one of those lists/charts of the things she needs to do, like people mentioned above.  Alas, it will probably be more of the same.  Plus, it will require that she learns to put her shirt on... right now she just gets her head stuck and then screams.  :)

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    Med, truly, if you always feel warm and fuzzy as a parent you are doing a terrible job (or are on drugs - they called Valium "Mother's Little Helper" for a reason!) and should feel terrible about THAT.  Otherwise, it means you are enforcing the law of the land (your house) by being stearn in the face of obstenance and you have the cahones it takes to be the great parent you are.  She'll appreciate it in 20 or so patient. :)

    ETA:  And, yes, you SHOULD be proud of yourself.

    Discretion is the better part of valor.

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from CT-DC. Show CT-DC's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    Oh, I don't know if it'll be better when she can dress herself - that takes BLOODY FOREVER as you stand on one foot then the other foot.  The best phrase is "I'll do it this time, you can do it next time." And then you better make SURE that day there is a next time when you have the patience and can wait for 20 minutes while they put on their pants so they'l believe you, but honestly, sometimes you do gotta GO NOW and get to work/childcare/movies/store/dance lessons/whatever.

    I think if you do this for a few days very calmly (as it's killing you, I know) then she'll get that she can't NOT go. And she'll probably begin to deal better.  Are you home, still, with baby boy?  So she knows she is leaving you for school? 

    Also, is there a way you can go and take photos of the things and people at school and make a book "Big Girl Med's school"  and then read the book each night?  this is where DD has her lunch and does art projects, this is where they build with big blocks in preschool, and this is where all the children get to listen to stories and sing songs at circle time (or morning meeting, whatever you call it).  And this is the playground where the big kids play, and this is Mrs. X who is DD's teacher.  You get the point.....  we did this for a child who was having a rough transition - they read this book as one of their 3 books before bedtime.  Seemed to help.  I took the photos at school, and put it together, then printed it (thank goodness for digital cameras!) and put it between 2 colored construction paper pages, not incredibly high tech but it did the trick.  You're still home, right, before baby goes to childcare?  Can you do this when you take her to school or pick her up?  Have her show you what she wants to photograph - of course you won't be able to take photos of each child yourself, (hmmm... but I could take photos and give them to the parent.....  perhaps a flaw in my thinking....oops!   oh, well, I knew they weren't going to post it on the internet or their facebook page, and we do have permission to take children's photos for documentation purposes!) Anyhoo, you could take photos of the teachers and the stuff. 

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from cwagner13. Show cwagner13's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    To add to CT-DC's great suggestion - could you ask the teachers to take pictures of DD doing fun stuff? When we moved DS at 18 months from one center to another, one of the cool things the teacher in the new center did was create a poster with bunch of pictures of DS doing stuff on his first day, and showing how happy he was... and we could say "where were you playing with XX?" and he would point to the picture and talk about it. I think it helped him alot (we had it on the wall at his height so he could go and look at it anytime, and I think it helped him to see himself in the pictures smiling and doing fun stuff).

    I have finally taken that poster down and moved it into his archive before it could

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from medfordcc. Show medfordcc's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    Thanks, guys, great ideas!  There was one activity she really liked last week so that would be a great place to start.  Also, today went better and I heaped on the joy and smiles, so hopefully that will continue and she'll be happy that we were happy.

    CT, interesting point about me being home with DS.  I kept thinking it would be hard for her when I go back to work, but it didn't occur to me that she might feel like she's missing out because he goes home with me... She does seem excited for him to start in the baby room, so maybe that is a factor.

    Mostly I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who had to do what had to be done to get ready!

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    I think sometimes we forget that kids have good days and bad days just like adults, but unlike adults they don't have the coping skills to compartmentalize.  If they have a bad dream and wake up on the anxious side they might act out and not want to get ready when told.  On the other hand, a good night's sleep and voila, they are in their shoes in no time.  There will be positive all-smiles days and drag through the day days, and it isn't all a direct result of what YOU are doing - you aren't a "good parent" on the happy days and a "bad parent" on the unpleasant days.  Yes, it's true that your consistency and such plays a huge role in expectations, security, and compliance, but on the other hand, taking too much responsibility for their moods puts too much undo stress on you.  If they are in a non-compliant mood, you have to be more ugly than you like.  If they are in a happy go lucky mood and you don't have to be so stearn that day, YAY!  Either way, you are doing GREAT if your child is respecting your authority, willingly or unwillingly.  If they ever feel that YOU are respecting THEIR authority over you, that's a problem.


    Discretion is the better part of valor.
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from KMMZ1012. Show KMMZ1012's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    I had a date night with DS last week. He wanted to eat dinner at the mall - I thought great, we'll go to one of the sit down places, have a nice dinner, go home and watch a movie. DS, however, wanted to ride in the racecar stroller the mall people so thoughtfully have at the main entrance we came in. Hence, our meal ended up being McDonald's in the food court that I ended up schlepping halfway across the mall and back home because DS refused to get out of the stroller and eat at a table. I lectured him (unmercifully) about being considerate and polite and why we eat at the table, etc, but I was annoyed too, because the night wasn't going how *I*planned. As we were walking out to the car (with happy meal tucked into my purse), DS said, "You're very grumpy. But that's okay. You can still be my best friend."

    It sort of stopped me in my tracks. DS throws fits about not getting his way constantly and my reaction is always to count to three or take something away or negotiate. Here I was, doing the same thing because the night wasn't going *my* way. So I apologized for being grumpy, we went home and ate crappy McDonald's food at the kitchen table (along with Alka Seltzer for me), had popsicles on the front steps, then went inside and watched a movie together.

    Since that, I've been trying to be more conscious of the way I interact with him. I'm looking for signs he's getting frustrated or bored and trying to head it off. Not every day's a win (hello, incident report from preschool that tells me you hit two kids and bit a third on your cranky day this week), but at least now I'm trying to understand a little better how I react when he gets noncompliant. We haven't had any days as bad as the one where I washed his mouth out, thank God, but no doubt we'll have one of those again before the summer ends and at least now I can think back on this and hopefully give myself some perspective before doing something that will make us all feel awful afterwards.

    Plus, he slayed me when he told me I was his best friend. I literally stopped in the parking lot, hugged him, and told him I was sorry I was grumpy, that it was his night too, and no we were not going out for ice cream because he still hadn't eaten his dinner.

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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    A lottery impies that it was random - applicants were put into a hat and the number of names for which there were spaces were chosen.  If it was, therefore, a lottery, his not being accepted wasn't a matter of not being chosen, it was a matter of luck.

    I think those skills are generally pre-K, not preschool, but it may vary school to school.  It's up to the parents to call ahead and ask what their requirements are and then teach their child as they see appropriate.


    Discretion is the better part of valor.
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from CT-DC. Show CT-DC's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    4 yr olds don't need to know how to write their name or read.  That's something that he will learn between now and 61/2 yrs old.  Some 4 yr olds can write their name, but many more cannot.  What the focus should be now is giving him many opportunities to use crayons and washable markers to draw, scribble and make his mark on paper so he learns to hold a crayon, marker and eventually a pencil.  Children who haven't used crayons as 2 and 3 and 4 yr olds have a harder time controlling a pencil at 5 years old.

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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from poppy609. Show poppy609's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    Med - glad you've had some successes! We're going through lots of getting-dressed battles and it's exhausting. They have NO sense of time, so being "on time" or being "late" means nothing to them, which I find difficult to deal with. Recently it's been a touch easier (sometimes) when I let DD pick out her own clothes. I should take pictures of some of the outfits she comes up with. The other day not only was she mismatched, but she had on long sleeves, long pants, and heavy socks. It was about 90 degrees out. She refused to put on anything else. I learned I need to put those options away for the summer.


    KMMZ - great story! (and I also fume at the racecar strollers AND the penny candy at the entrance of the mall!)

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from medfordcc. Show medfordcc's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    KMMZ - great story!  Poppy - thanks!  Our troubles continue, but some successes, too, and I'm trying to remind myself that it seems to be normal for the age.  I was also laughing because your DD's outfits remind me of my DD's... only that still happens when I pick the clothes!  :)  Mostly because I can't resist buying things with stripes so we have many mismatched stripes.  Interestingly, DD felt strongly about picking out her own clothes a month ago and now doesn't care at all.

    To the question about whether or not reading/writing affected the preschool admission, my recent preschool experience taught me that there are some with random lottery, some with first come first served, and some with a true admissions process based on the kid.  So it's hard to know without knowing how the school does things.  But if their letter said it was a lottery, hopefully they would be honest about that!

  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    jack, what does their child do?  No crayons?  

    I happened to teach myself to read off of Sesame Street between 2 and 3, but my mom being a kindergarten teacher was unhappy about it; she knew I'd be bored silly in kindergarten and I was and was a behavioral problem.  That is until she had a little chat with me about how it was very likely there were other smart kids in my class who knew things that I didn't know like little boys who worked with their dads in the garage who knew stuff about cars and such.  That shut me up, LOL.  

    Discretion is the better part of valor.
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATeam59. Show ATeam59's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    Reasoning and consequence seems to do the trick most of the time. I don't just make her do it, I tell her why I want her to do it and what might happen if she doesn't. 

    Who is John Galt?
    The truth is Out There.
    So long and thanks for all the fish!
    As you wish.

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ERPT. Show ERPT's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    Hi Ladies
    Reading your posts and pretty much agreeing on everything that has been said. I have a 3 and 4 year old boys that I feel like I'm constantly nagging at. UGH, its so frustrating! Sometimes I lose my temper and end up yelling/screaming and feel terrible after. Some days I think that my kids will grow up to hate me but I usually feel somewhat redeemed when they randomly give me a kiss or hug.

    For those of you having trouble getting your children dressed, I always found it much easier to dress my kids as soon as they get up in the morning. They seem to put up much less of a fight. I let them go potty, then get dressed. Good luckSmile

  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from amy-lynn. Show amy-lynn's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    Regarding preschoolers having no concept of being late - DD has a yoga class that it is a struggle to get her out the door on time for, and it wasn't until I stopped saying, "Do this now, or we'll be late" and started saying "do this now or we'll miss the hello song" that she started to get the concept of late. Class doesn't wait for her to get there, so if she takes forever getting dressed, or brushing teeth, or putting on shoes, or  all of the above, she misses the "Hello" song, and sometimes more. It has helped a bit, having a concrete example of what she will miss.

    But it is hard, and since she is 4.5, and I want her to be more independent, I am trying not to just dress her, but make her dress herself, which is painfully slow, and sometimes I just have to go ahead and dress her myself, because we have to be places on time, and I can't wait forever. It is also frustrating that no matter how long I give myself to get us ready (30 minutes, 45 minutes, an hour) DD always seems to stretch every task out to fill the available time, and I still find myself rushing around trying to get out the door. Not sure if the problem is hers or mine, but it drives me nuts! 

  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from CT-DC. Show CT-DC's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    Amylynn, that's the function of being 4 yrs old.  For real!  It MIGHT help if you make a short list (4 items, max) that has a word and a picture of each thing she needs to do in order.

    Go Potty (picture of toilet or her on toilet)

    Get dressed (picture of clothing)

    Eat Breakfast

    Brush teeth

    and then she can have a clipboard with a pen, and cross each thing off as she does it.  That keeps her on purpose (DD, check your list, what's next? is the way to coach her through it) and also keeps you out of the fights and constant discussion.  And, yes, if she's late then she loses out on the hello song, etc - those are natural consequences and much more effective than "you are getting a time out because we were late."

    And if she dawdles about getting ready for bed and she loves her book reading time, then it's "We can read 3 books if there is time.  finish up or we have time for only 2" and then DO IT.  And, yes, she'll try to get the 3rd book, but it's a learning experience.

    And just try to find the patience of Job until she's another year or two older! Smile

  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from amy-lynn. Show amy-lynn's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    CT-DC, My refrain for years has been "of course she (insert frustrating behavior), she's only 2 or 3 or 4" It does help keep it in perspective. But it doesn't always make me feel better when I am trying to get her out the door. I think it is somewhat compounded because we have a 3 month old, so before, I could devote all my time/energy to her, but now I am also trying to get the baby ready, so I can't hover in the same way. 

    I like the idea of the checklist. She is on the cusp of being able to read, and she loves to make "lists" of scribbles, or dictate a list to me. Not sure if it will speed her up, but it might help keep her from going completely off the rails. 

  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from CT-DC. Show CT-DC's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    right, it won't speed her up, but you can ask a simple "check your list for what's next!" vs. getting embroiled in a 10 minute conversation (ARGUMENT) about whether it's time to brush teeth or get dressed - ARGH!

    and hopefully she can stay more "on task" and won't go off the rails (or at least, not too much!)

    attach a pen to her little clipboard, make many copies of the list, and let her have ONE list at a time on her little 'big girl' clipboard.

    And sitting and staring at her (or glaring, LOL) will only make her dawdle more - it's a catch 22!

  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from amy-lynn. Show amy-lynn's posts

    Re: Non Compliance in Preschoolers

    The checklist might also help with one of her new time wasters - now she wants to wash her hands after brushing her teeth. Which in theory sounds fine, except she already washes her hands after going potty, so she now wants to do it twice, in the same bathroom visit! And surgeons have nothing on the thoroughness of a four year old washing her hands!