February TTC

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from luckinlife. Show luckinlife's posts

    Re: February TTC

     "But it most certainly is God's will if she cannot conceive and bear a child naturally."

    Yes, Alf, this is your belief.  Others may say, it is God's will that it may be more difficult for you to bear children but ultimately, he has blessed us with the opportunities to explore other ways.  It is contrary to the Catholic Church to pursue ART so that is clearly not the way a practicing Catholic would see it.  Again, I respect this completely.  As a matter of fact I was horrified when the President try to mandate that the Catholic Church needs to provide insurance coverage for contraception.  So, perhaps, that gives you some idea of how much I respect one's religious beliefs.  I actually have no problems on a Catholic's view of ART.  I would not choose to be a practicing Catholic for this reason but as I said clearly in my post I RESPECT that you have had so many problems with TTC and still adhere strongly to your beliefs.

    In no way was I trying to pursuade Chiclet to think like me.  As you mentioned I have no problems with regards to how any one decides to pursue or not pursue infertility.  But, I do think that we are extremely hard on ourselves when we cannot conceive and I was merely trying to show that to Chiclet.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from siena09. Show siena09's posts

    Re: February TTC

    ALF-obviously these are deeply personal decisions and I as a non-Catholic am not in a position to advise anyone on Catholic theology and how it relates to their personal decisions. However, I think a strength of these forums is that we can hear how people who are perhaps from significantly different backgrounds and beliefs think about these important issues. In most cases, it probably won't change anyone's mind, but that isn't really the point. I think it enriches my understanding of the world to read Chiclet's comments on the pope's statements on ART. I hope that this type of understanding ultimately makes me a better informed, more compassionate person. I hope that readers of this forum can take my comments in the spirit they were intended--not advice on what anyone should do as a Catholic, but rather as a window into another way of thinking about the question. It may be all wrong as a frame for Chiclet or anyone else who is grappling with the question, but I hope it brings something to the table as far as at least understanding the diversity of perspectives on this and how other people and belief systems relate to these questions.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: February TTC

    lil, talk to any priest and they will explain 'the will of God' to you.  It is not just 'my belief'.  It is central to Catholic doctrine that we accept God's will and not interfere w/ creation.  Those are the core essentials of Catholic stance on this.  I am not trying to persuade Chicklet one way or the other. It's up to HER what she decides to do.

    I'm sorry, but several  practicing Catholics have come out and said 'this conversation is insulting to me' and explained why. I have even stated that I don't think anyone is trying to be mean and insulting The easy and polite thing to do is to either change the subject or apologize and move on.  I'm sorry that Catholics are not in great favor in the press and that they have some soul crushing messages in the ART realm, but that is no excuse to keep coming back and picking on this one point.  I am sick and tired of defending myself on this issue, both here and at my doctor's office.  You don't need to like the message, nor do you need to adopt it.  But it is what it is. 

    I agree w/ you, lil, w/ the message you were trying to convey re being too hard on ourselves and thinking that we must have done something 'wrong' and yes, I caught that you gave me a compliment earlier.  But I completely disagree w/ your and others' take on the remainder of the points. How a non-Catholic thinks about or approaches this topic or the issue of ART is irrelevant b/c a non-Catholic does not have the same issues to consider that a Catholic does specifically b/c they do they have the same beliefs. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from cicirose. Show cicirose's posts

    Re: February TTC

    Chiclet - how long have you been TTC? I apologize because I have not closely followed this thread, but I thought this was relatively new for you. If so and you were previously having regular cycles, what makes you or the doctors think there is a problem based on one unusual cycle? I thought that stress directly affects your cycles and beginning TTC is in itself a stressful thing! I'm not trying to give an opinion either way on infertility treatment but personally it was not something I was interested in exploring despite my doctor's insistence that I would probably not be able to get pregnant on my own. Lo and behold somehow I got pregnant. I'm not saying to just relax and it will happen, but just that if you are on the fence about treatments, why not give it some time?

    Best of luck to you, Chiclet, and everyone else waiting for a BFP! I'm crossing my fingers for all of you!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from luckinlife. Show luckinlife's posts

    Re: February TTC

    Alf - I am sorry again if you misunderstood me.  I was not talking about the "will of God" being specific to the Catholic religion. Of course, I know what a priest would tell me about the will of God.   As I mentioned in my post no Catholic would or even should agree with my view (or others) of what the "will of God" may mean to them. You keep saying that I don't understand when I have said many times that a Catholic would not agree with my views with this respect. 

    Anyway, I would let this one go.  I in no way EVER meant to insult anyone and have no idea why you think you need to defend yourself when I have said several times I admire you position and have not been critical of it.

    "You don't need to like the message, nor do you need to adopt it.  But it is what it is. "  

    I actually said I have no problem with the message, would not adopt it personally and respect anyone who believes in it.  

    Not sure what else could be said to that.  I certainly don't think you need to defend yourself particularly with what I have said b/c I have nothing but respect for your position but sorry that you feel that you do.






     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: February TTC

    lil, my earlier comments were not addressed to you specifically.  There were several posts by various posters going back several pages on this thread which dealt w/ the issue and involved non-Catholics trying to give some measure of comfort to other posters regarding 'God's intent' for childless couples.  They were trying to be helpful, but their take on things would not offer any real assistance or comfort to a Catholic who had actually read and believed in the Church's stance on this. If you feel that I was singling you out for some reason, taht wasn't my intention; I responded to your post individually b/c you posted again directly to me.

    It's not something that people who are open to ART have to deal with. Whenever hte issue comes up, a Catholic has to defend his or her position on why they don't want to pursue certain treatments.  It gets very tiresome having to go to the drs office and having them suggest X treatment, and having to decline it, and then being expected to explain why b/c it's not 'unusual' or anything.  So it gets very old very fast. If you or anyone else who has used ART or any form of intervention had to explain every single time the issue came up why you elected to use ART and what you thought process was to reach that conclusion, then perhaps you'd understand.  So if I am a little touchy, that is why.  I'm sick to death of having to explain myself and to 'apologize' for not wanting to 'assist' doctors to 'help' me. They can't understand that I don't necessarily need 'helping' on this point.  I don't even get a RX for prenatal vitamins anymore, even though I can get them for free if I have an RX under my health plan, b/c if heh dr knows I'm actively TTC, I get the hard sell on various treatments. I changed doctors offices specifically to avoid this.  It's a refreshing change to have a new doctor who doesn't see me as 'broken' or having something needing fixing.   
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from luvRIboy. Show luvRIboy's posts

    Re: February TTC

    ALF, I'm so sorry to hear that you've had to defend your decisions to doctors over and over again.  Certainly not what you should have to do...and that's something I think I would bring to the doctor's attention, since there is a real lack of cultural sensitivity there.  I know there's a tendency of some doctors to want to "fix" and treat the problem not the patient, and it sounds like your experience is a definite example of this. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chiclet831. Show Chiclet831's posts

    Re: February TTC

    I've really enjoyed hearing other people's perspectives on this subject. I'm sorry the conversation has been heated at times. I feel like Catholics are constantly in a state of having to explain our faith. The majority of people who aren't Catholic either aren't familiar with why we do what we do or they've had a bad experience. When DH and I first started dating, his mother asked if I was a church-going-girl. When he told her I am Catholic, she actually said, "We can change that." I feel like no one would ever say that about another religion. (Well, you shouldn't say that anyway, but nevermind that.) I wasn't offended by anyone's statements but I can completely relate to what ALF is talking about. I'm appalled that anyone in the medical profession would push a treatment once they were told that it's malaligned to someone's beliefs.

    Cici, thanks for checking in. Because I was so late (day 59 today), I had an ultrasound where they found lots of follicles, but none interested in ovulating. Right now we're working on just getting me a period in the first place, but I'm going to end up with a whole fertility workup to figure out if I have PCOS or something else. I've just immediately started considering all possibilities, but nothing is set in stone. I'm not in a huge rush to get pregnant, but I'm kind of in a huge rush to figure out what's wrong with me.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from IPWBride. Show IPWBride's posts

    Re: February TTC

    LIL - if you are still reading... do you think I should even bother with the HSG on Monday?  I'm going to call the RE today and ask the same thing, so I'm not asking for your medical opinion.  Just asking as someone who went through getting bad numbers like mine.  I don't recall if you ever mentioned what yours were, just recall reading when you shared you did a bunch of IUI and IVFs only to be told DE was the best bet because of bad numbers.  I'm wondering about the HSG because it was pretty painful for me before, and heck... healthcare costs enough as is without me adding a potentially useless procedure.  I'm guessing the FSH = 21 and antral count = 5 is why we're not getting (and not going to get) PG on our own.  And Kar has a point, these may have been my numbers before so very likely I already got my "miracle" with DS.

    And not sure if RHM reads TTC... but I would love to hear how one thinks about DE after having children.  Unfortunately, I've got somewhat of a bad precedent in my family - an older uncle who married quite late was able to have one biological, and then adopted their second (from infant, they took her home two days after her birth).  But it was never a secret and she has always known.  But I hear some in my family joke how she is treated differently and isn't the star of the family, unlike their son.  Its horrible... beyond horrible and I can't let other people sway my decision... but I can't even fathom having a precious, wonderful little girl or boy ever wondering if they were second or not as loved as their older brother.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: February TTC

    IPW, I was thinking more along the lines of if your body overcame the odds once, why assume it can't do it again?  I'm thinking your numbers weren't all that great when you did conceive given how high they are now, and you didn't know the difference when you got pregnant.  Now that you know, it doesn't really change anything, right?  I'm definitely not saying to get your hopes all pie in the sky high, but I do think a little hope is in order given you got pregnant under less than ideal conditions before.

    ETA:  Of course, there is that (strong?) possibility that DS will be your only "miracle," but I don't want you to completely dismiss the idea that maybe not if he were conceived (unbeknown to you at the time) under less than ideal conditions.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from siena09. Show siena09's posts

    Re: February TTC

    In Response to Re: February TTC:
    [QUOTE] When he told her I am Catholic, she actually said, "We can change that." I feel like no one would ever say that about another religion.
    Posted by Chiclet831[/QUOTE]

    Chiclet--I'm sorry that you've had to deal with that intolerance.  I can assure you though that Catholics are not alone though in their experience.  My MIL refused to meet me or talk to me for the first 5 years that I was dating DH because I do not share his religious background.  We actually have a pretty good relationship now, all things considered, but it was a challenging start to say the least. There is plenty of intolerance to go around in this world, and I don't think any one group is the unique target.  In fact, in the case of my MIL, I think it was her own very real experience with intolerance and bias that in part led her to be extra wary of those who did not share her background.  There is some irony in that, I suppose. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chiclet831. Show Chiclet831's posts

    Re: February TTC

    Siena, I'm sorry your MIL was so close-minded with you. What a way to start your relationship... I'm glad you've been able to recover. My MIL badgered me for awhile about going to church with them. We did go for a bit but I not-so-secretly hate it. I think they were pretty disappointed that we had a Catholic wedding but suprisingly enough, no one caught on fire when they walked into the church.

    IPW - Do you preceive a difference between how your uncle treats his two children or is it something that the family has projected on them? If it is real, that's horrible but probably not something you'd deal with because you know better. You're right though, you can't let your family sway your opinion. If people are going to talk, they're going to talk anyway, whether you give them reason to or not.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SSBride09. Show SSBride09's posts

    Re: February TTC

    Siena, I completely agree with you. 

    I'm an aetheist and you wouldn't believe how intolerant people are with those who do not believe in any religion.  Attended Catholic schools for 12 years btw, but typically try not to weigh in to these types of discussions since any conversation regarding religion is touchy no matter what you say.  For example, Alf's comment that "it most certainly is God's will if she cannot conceive and bear a child naturally" can be offensive to someone who doesn't believe in God at all (Alf - no worries, I'm just trying to point out another view).

    Anyway... pulling out all the tools this week, OPKs and temping, and hoping for a lucky month.  Should be in the 2ww by this weekend which I'm not looking forward to.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedFishBlueFish. Show RedFishBlueFish's posts

    Re: February TTC

    I've had a lot of friends struggle with interfaith relationships, with some even strongly encouraged to convert to gain acceptance with their beloved's family. When kids come along, it's even more stressful than the marriage.

    IPW: As far as parents treating kids differently, that can happen whether they're biological full siblings or not. If that preference is true in your uncle's family, it's possible that he would have favored a boy more regardless. That doesn't make it right, but there's more than one way to look at it.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from luckinlife. Show luckinlife's posts

    Re: February TTC

    Wow IPW - that is really terrible about the adopted child.  I am sorry to hear about that.  My initial FSH was 12 I think and my antral count was 5-6.  So they really weren't sure that IVF was not going to work (of course, who ever is?).  I think it was me who brought up donor first b/c I think I just knew in my heart that it wasn't going to happen for me (my oldest sister adopted due to infertility).  I have also always taken the stance that I have no problems telling anyone in our family (I even will tell patients who are dealing with infertility so they know their options if they are interested).  However, we have a small family and clearly have not had to deal with any of the absolutely ignorant comments that I have heard elsewhere.  Sometimes, though, people do better with a little educating.  I strongly feel that there is no shame with donor so I have been open about it.

    That being said, I do think it is different when there is a full biological child.  I am going to message RHM and see if she wants to weight in. 

    I don't think your numbers necessarily mean that you couldn't get pregnant on your own again.  You have done it once and Kar is right, your numbers could have been similar.  An RE will be pessimistic because those tests are used to determine how you will respond to IVF treatment but not necessarily a naturally conceived child.

    I can't imagine why you would need another HSG.  I would beg them to accept the other but for insurance issues you may need to repeat.  If they are going straight to IVF, I am not sure why a repeat HSG is very important. I did not find it painful but I know it can be very uncomfortable for some.


    Alf - I would have switched doctors too.  I really don't understand on any level why a doctor would not respect your choices.  Unless I saw I patient who was truly ambivalent I would feel no need to push the issue. It probably comes from a desire to help but certainly is not respectful!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from stefani2. Show stefani2's posts

    Re: February TTC

    IPW - didn't the dr/re say that another HSG might undo some blockage that resurfaced?  even though your numbers are not ideal it could be that after an HSG you could get lucky again?  (didn't you get PG the first time right after an HSG?)  sorry for all of this - what a drag.

    i got a BFP this am.  i don't mean to be insensitive, but wow, do i have mixed emotions.  it's so different the second time around - instead of envisioning idyllic bliss w/ a newborn in my arms i envision... you know, reality (and possibly worse than standard "reality" since i recollect newborn-dom with twins???)  anyway - we'll see if it sticks, is healthy, and - let's hope it's ONE!  :)
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chiclet831. Show Chiclet831's posts

    Re: February TTC

    Stefani!!! Congratulations! This is the good news we've been waiting all year for!

    I hope this kicks of good things for the rest of us!!!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: February TTC

    Congrats and sticky thoughts, Stef!!!  I'm sure it's impossible to have the same "ignorance is bliss" feeling about it the second time, but on the flip side, you know what to expect and that's always a good thing, right?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: February TTC

    In Response to Re: February TTC:
    [QUOTE]Siena, I completely agree with you.  I'm an aetheist and you wouldn't believe how intolerant people are with those who do not believe in any religion.  Attended Catholic schools for 12 years btw, but typically try not to weigh in to these types of discussions since any conversation regarding religion is touchy no matter what you say.  For example, Alf's comment that "it most certainly is God's will if she cannot conceive and bear a child naturally" can be offensive to someone who doesn't believe in God at all (Alf - no worries, I'm just trying to point out another view). Anyway... pulling out all the tools this week, OPKs and temping, and hoping for a lucky month.  Should be in the 2ww by this weekend which I'm not looking forward to.
    Posted by SSBride09[/QUOTE]

    SS, I know you aren't. But I thought it was clear that I was specifically speaking in the context of Catholic doctrine and how Catholics are told to interpret this [whether they individually share that interpreation is another story].  I would never make a statement about any sort of situation applying Catholic doctrine if it wasn't in the discussion already, and in this instance it was the point of the discussion.  I thought it was clear that my statements only pertained to Catholic doctrine on that point.  If anyone didn't 'get' that, then my apologies. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from luckinlife. Show luckinlife's posts

    Re: February TTC

    Wow! Congratulations Stefani!  Good, sticky thoughts your way.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from luvRIboy. Show luvRIboy's posts

    Re: February TTC

    Sticky thoughts your way, Stefani!  When would that have you due?  Just about the same time as the twins b'day? 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from cicirose. Show cicirose's posts

    Re: February TTC

    Stefani - Congrats!!! Lots of sticky thoughts for you!

    Chiclet - A PCOS diagnosis is not an automatic infertility sentence. Just look at all those "I didn't know I was pregnant" stories - many of those women have PCOS. My sister (with 3 kids from going 3 times unprotected) and I were both diagnosed with PCOS too.  I think it often can be managed by diet and exercise and there are definitely other resources available if you are not comfortable proceeding with medical treatments. I'm not trying to sway you from not doing any testing or treatments, because obviously it's YOUR decision alone, but it sounds like you are reluctant and I just want to provide encouragement that it's not a hopeless situation!

    IPW - I'm sorry about your disappointing test results. I think it's so sad how your uncle treats his daughter, but that does not have to be you unless you choose to allow it or do the same. I'm sure whatever decision you make will work out perfectly for your family in the end.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from IPWBride. Show IPWBride's posts

    Re: February TTC

    Stefani... SO excited for you!!  And this was w/o clomid, correct?  Very, very sticky thoughts your way.  And yes... sticky ONE as I know you are really hoping for ONE. :-)

    And you are correct... the doctor said that in some cases, very few, but in some case of a c-section... scar tissue can either block or grow on/near tubes.  I'd be shocked if that were the case... but I'm thinking she'll want me to do it for that reason.  She says she is a data girl and likes lots of data before making any plan.  

    And good memory... DS was conceived 4 days after my first HSG :-)  

    As for my uncle... he's fairly insensative to both his kids actually.  But that's just him... not a very warm guy.  Their mom is very warm and wonderful to both.  So I forget who asked, maybe Redfish... but you are correct.  Its my family projecting those thoughts outward rather than commenting on actual behavior.  Although my family is infamous for talking about each other behind their backs.  Lovely folks, huh!  

    Oddly enough I was chatting with my colleague, who I've become very close with, and wouldn't you know, she is adopted!  She told me some really wonderful stories.  I don't think we could afford adoption actually, so that is probably not in our cards.  Not sure egg donation is much more affordable either. 

    Kar, I bet you are right.  I'll never know, but to be at a 21 (which I bet my 63 year old mother has a better number) means it was very unlikely I was at a 4 two years ago.  Not knowing anything about medicine, I can't imagine all my eggs just flew out of my body so quickly.   So who knows... maybe something amazing could happen.

    Thanks for responding LIL.  Your thoughts and history really help.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SSBride09. Show SSBride09's posts

    Re: February TTC

    Congratulations Stefani!  I feel like we've been waiting for some good news for somebody for a while now.  Hope its just the start of a new trend :)
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: February TTC

    IPW, I wouldn't have said, "flew out of your body," but yeah, definitely what I was getting at! :)  If you conceived right after your previous HSG, what is the real harm of doing it again?  The conditions might be exactly what your body needs to get pg.
     

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