February TTC

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from siena09. Show siena09's posts

    Re: February TTC

    In Response to Re: February TTC:
    Siena, based on my interpretation of the Pope's writings in 1987, the Church only supports conception through intercourse. So any of the things you mentioned that could fix a primary or secondary fertility problem would be okay as long as the couple could then go on to have sex and conceive.
    Posted by Chiclet831


    Thanks, Chiclet, for clarifying!  That's interesting to know, and I wasn't aware of where the Catholic Church generally drew the lines around fertility interventions. I hope that this teaching gives you some comfort as you pursue this workup, since there are likely many bridges to cross before you get to an IUI/IVF decision, and at that point you can take the time to think and discuss with whomever you need to find the right path for yourself.  Certainly technological progress has led to newly complicated grey areas.  For me, I don't see IUI/IVF that way, but issues surrogacy and donation do seem ethically complex, and I'm not sure what I personally would do if faced with those decisions.

    Re. the relatives: my hunch is that it was MIL who told these kids about the pg (not the parents of the kids).  A parent of the kid overheard the interrogation and was embarrassed and apologized, so it didn't seem worth more words at that point.  I doubt DH will want to keep our next pg from MIL for a few months, but I will definitely make an explicit request that the children aren't told next time (beyond the "please don't tell anyone yet" blanket request that we made last time).
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: February TTC

    In Response to Re: February TTC:
    In Response to Re: February TTC :  Chiclet, ALF is right about the Catholic teachings on the subject. However, like many other things, it's up to you and your DH to determine how you feel about it, within your personal faith and relationship with God, if that makes sense. Good luck.
    Posted by RedFishBlueFish

    That's what I was trying to say - whatever feels right within her personal faith and relationship with God is what's right for them.  That might not be what the Chuch says is right, and I think, fwiw, that's OK.  (And, I'm a woman whose faith in God is very important to me; I'm not saying, "Hey, whatever, man.")

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chiclet831. Show Chiclet831's posts

    Re: February TTC

    Siena, funny that you mention your MIL being the culprit. I've already put my foot down that DH's parents are not to be told until we're ready for the world to know. Because if there's two things my in-laws are awful at it's 1.) keeping a secret and 2.) respecting boundaries.

    I'm sure everyone will be more guarded with your news now. But the whole situation just s*cks.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from poppy609. Show poppy609's posts

    Re: February TTC

    Siena - I am so impressed with how you dealt with that situation.  I would have been so shocked I wouldn't have known what to say.  Those kids are lucky to have you as a role model!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhirledPeasPlease. Show WhirledPeasPlease's posts

    Re: February TTC

    IPW, sorry you got such cra.ppy news. I hope you can talk to your doctor to find out what your realistic options are. Why would they have a nurse who can't answer your questions give you news like that? That's so insensitive. 

    Chiclet, are you and your DH both Catholic? I grew up Catholic too (but I'm not religious). Maybe he could collect the SA after intercourse but pulling out before anything happens so you could collect it and not have to do anything you're uncomfortable with. Is your DH leaning more toward intervention like IVF and IUI than you are? 

    Those phrases on the shirts you saw are great. :)

    Siena, how awkward and uncomfortable. It sounds like you handled it really well, but ugh. 

    AFM, the obnoxious girl who answered the phone for the RE told me haughtly, "You, like, can't refer yourself," so I'm giving up a whole shift of work on Thursday to see my PCP for 20 seconds to ask her for a referral. Apparently this is Mass law? In NY if you needed to see a doctor, you'd call up that doctor and make an appointment. But they don't get lots of co-pays that way, so obviously this referral system makes more sense. (Can you tell I'm annoyed by this?) I'm really hoping my doctor doesn't say no. She's an older hippie (which is why I like her) so I don't think she will. I just want to get this whole thing off the ground.  
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from siena09. Show siena09's posts

    Re: February TTC

    In Response to Re: February TTC:
    Apparently this is Mass law? 
    Posted by WhirledPeasPlease


    I am almost certain that is not MA law; that receptionist is an idiot.  It may be the policy of your insurer, but it is not state law.  My HMO just did away with the requirement of a PCP referral for all in-network specialists this fall.  And I was previously on a MA insurance plan that allowed certain specialists to be seen without referral.  There is state law mandating coverage of fertility treatments, but I don't see anything about a referral requirement in that statute (which I just googled, because I was curious), nor can I imagine why the state would want to specify that.  I don't see why REs would be so different than other docs, so can't imagine that there is a separate law about them specifically requiring referral.

    Did you leave a message with your PCP about a new referral?  It is possible that she would be willing to provide it without you doing another visit.  Depends on your doctor, but I'd say it's definitely worth a try.  I would ask to leave a message with the receptionist explaining what happened and why you are frustrated, and asking the receptionist to pass this along to the PCP.  
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: February TTC

    Many insurers require that the referral come from your PCP.  She probably doesn't deal w/ insurance that allows you to call direct. Particulary if she answered the phone w/ 'you can't, like, call it in youself'.  Did she blow a bubble w/ her gum at the end?  Geez!  In many instances, I just call and leave a message for the dr that I needed a referral to X [this was not just for TTC issues] and he or she'd call it in, and then get a message back to me that I could call and make the appt w/ the specialist. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: February TTC

    I agree, definitely do not make an appointment for a referral even if you do need one.  They should do that by phone no matter what insurance company you have.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from luckinlife. Show luckinlife's posts

    Re: February TTC

    IPW - sorry to hear about your FSH and antral count!  How frustrating.  Of course, I am a huge donor advocate but I think it is a harder decision when you already have one child.  RHM may be able to shed some light here.

    Chiclet - I just can't get there in terms of maybe God didn't intend for me to have kids.  While I understand that the Catholic religion certainly does not favor ART I think taking the step to God's intention is somewhat self-punishing.  When you get strep throat is it God's intention for you to let nature take it's course and potentially get very sick from not taking antibiotics?   My sister has horrible rheumatoid arthritis - Is this God's intention and she should avoid medications that have essentially saved her mobility?    So, I bring this up because I see it as two different issues. I hope that makes sense. I am not trying to change your thoughts just shedding light in another way.

    My husband initially wanted us to raise our child in the Catholic Church.  However, since I already had been using birth control and had sex prior to marriage I felt like it wasn't the religious institution for me.  We belong to a non-denomination church who does not have a particular edict with regard to ART.

    I really feel like with regards to ART there are a lot of people who have strong opinions about whether or not it is right but there are very few, like Alf, who actually have struggled themselves and still hold these opinions.  I admire that stance because I feel like for the most part it is very easy to be against ART when you have a family already.

    Rambling and I hope this was coherent.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: February TTC

    lil, that's exactly what I meant with the Scientology analogy.  If it's God's will we just sit and accept we "aren't meant to have kids," why isn't it God's will we just sit back and die of cancer instead of getting chemo?  It doesn't make sense to me...with all due respect to the Catholic Church and my DH who doesn't believe in getting help with getting pregnant, either, because of his religion.  It very well might mean we don't have kids whereas we might have...who knows, and I don't hold it against him, and I knew how he felt about it before we got married.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: February TTC

    This is not directed at anyone in particular. 

    It is perfectly fine if you do not agree w/ Catholic doctrine.  If you consider yourself a Catholic and don't want to adhere to Catholic teachings on a particular point, that is your business.  I eat meat during Lent and have received communion w/o going to confession first, and participated in other activities that are not endorsed by the Catholic Church, so it's not like I am the poster child for Catholicism. 

    However, much of what is being posted is incredibly insulting to me as a Catholic, particularly since if you've never read up on the reasons why the Church has this stance on fertility treatments and ART, you have absolutlely no idea what you are talking about. It is nothing remotely like Scientology.  It is not just a medical treatment.  The Church's stance on this is very well thought out and, if you actually read up on it, is logical and completely in line w/ other Catholic doctrine. Again, I'm not saying that all Catholics must share this mindset, or that it is right for everyone.  But if you are not Catholic, or if you are but have never actually read up on this subject and just think you know why the Church has the stance, making negative comments about it is just completely out of line.  

    There are many ways to become a parent. You need not bear a child to be a parent.  The Church is not denying you the ability to be a parent by its stance. I guess my point is, please think and actually do some reasearch before you make negative comments on this subject.   
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: February TTC

    If I offended anyone, I'm really sorry, and I'm glad to know your thoughts on the subject, ALF.  It doesn't make any sense to me, and I guess it never will, but I do respect other people's beliefs; I hope that's apparent even if my opinions are way off re Catholic beliefs on this subject.  I've learned what I know over the last 4 years since meeting DH, certainly not a huge amount.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedFishBlueFish. Show RedFishBlueFish's posts

    Re: February TTC

    You offended me a little bit, Kargiver. It seemed like your answer was "well, your religion is doing it wrong anyway" with a highly judgmental undertone and that's not very helpful.

    ETA: I don't think that was your intention, but even the best of intentions don't always turn out the way we think they will.

    ETA(2): What bothered me the most was the "theological fact" part. It's only a fact within a given theology. Catholicism and Protestantism are two different theologies; therefore, it is not a theological fact to a Catholic. The idea of sitting a Catholic down with a Bible to explain just how very wrong and/or misguided those beliefs are is offensive to Catholics. If you truly do respect others' beliefs, please consider that the next time you dismiss a faith's core beliefs as "made up." How do you feel about people saying the Bible is just made up? Probably not very pleased, yet you say the same about another's faith without thinking it could cause offense.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: February TTC

    I'm really sorry...crying, actually.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: February TTC

    Kar, please don't feel bad.  I realize that most people don't mean to be insulting when they say these things, which was why I posted the way I did. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedFishBlueFish. Show RedFishBlueFish's posts

    Re: February TTC

    Please don't be that upset. It's a highly personal topic and it's difficult not to have very personal reactions. At least for me, the last few weeks have been exceptionally touchy with the Church. I may be taking it more personally than I would otherwise because of that timing.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chiclet831. Show Chiclet831's posts

    Re: February TTC

    I didn't mean to offend anyone by my comment that having kids might not be in God's plan for me. I in no way meant that fertility issues are God's way of telling couples that they shouldn't be parents. I meant for me personally, where I had regular cycles this whole time and then the month we start *really* trying, my reproductive system shuts down. It's messed with my head and I can't help questioning if that is a message. But that is certainly not to say that is the case with everyone. I know it's pretty dangerous (useless?) to try to figure out God's plan but it is something that I've been struggling with.

    DH is Protestant and isn't bothered by this at all. His point is that there's no way God can not support a Christian couple having a baby that they are going to raise to know God. That makes sense to me logically, but to ALF's point, there's a whole overarching Catholic teaching on how babies are made to think about. I also think that Catholic teaching is really broad for a reason and an individual has to apply it to their situation to know what's right for them. 

    DH just wants a child, he doesn't care how we have it. He's open to adoption, but the more I research it, the more it terrifies me. Hopefully this is a lot of worry for nothing, but I want to be prepared for all the decisions we might face.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: February TTC

    Chicket, if it helps at all, I didn't find anything you said remotely insulting.  It's perfectly normal and natural to question these things.  I was taking an issue w/ people who making analogies to different treatments for arthritis, prenatal care, cancer, etc. They are not the same thing as certain fertility treatments. Not even remotely.  Anyone is free to believe and think what htey want but before they castigate Catholic teaching on this topic, they should read up on it. It is surprisingly simple, logical and hard to argue w/ philosophically once you weed through it all.  But it is also incredibly difficult to come to terms w/. It's something every individual and couple needs to asess on their own.  No decision is necessarily 'right'; it just needs to be right for them. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: February TTC

    Thanks for understanding, ladies.  I don't have a lot of time right now, but wanted you to know I got your kind comments that I probably don't even deserve but appreciate very much.  And, guess what, I wiped my tears right after having cut raw onions and not having washed my hands...

    Later, friends, gotta run for now.

    ~kar
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fuzzymiss9. Show Fuzzymiss9's posts

    Re: February TTC

    To change the subject slightly...2WW for me begins again..fingers and toes crossed
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from luvRIboy. Show luvRIboy's posts

    Re: February TTC

    Fingers crossed for you Fuzzy!

    As for the other debate going on, I think it's fair to say that just about everything regarding TTC is a really personal decision, that you and your partner have to make, weighing the pros and cons, using your own values, morals and guidelines and knowing that in the end, it is YOUR family and YOUR decision.  Like so many other decisions we make, others may agree or disagree with it, but as long as you are at peace with it, that's all that should matter. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from poppy609. Show poppy609's posts

    Re: February TTC

    IPW - I somehow missed your post.  I'm sorry for the news you received and hope you get different information when you talk further with your doctor...
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from MissWolff. Show MissWolff's posts

    Re: February TTC

    Excellent summary RI.

    Fuzzy- Keep yourself busy and GL this time around! :)
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from luckinlife. Show luckinlife's posts

    Re: February TTC

    No Alf - you completely misread my post.  What I was saying is that I understand that the Catholic church does not believe in ART and I understand the reasoning completely - certainly has to do with when life begins and conception.   I never meant to equate fertility treatment with treatment of arthritis in the Church's view.  I was talking with regards to the God's will part of it.

    Chiclet - I absolutely am not offended.   I just don't want you to be hard on yourself in this process!  It is easy to feel like something is wrong with you when your body does not cooperate!

    I was trying to separate the two out - i.e. the Catholic Church's views on ART which I respect completely versus someone feeling that it is God's will that they will not have children - which, of course, I still respect but I think they are two different issues.

    I am not sure if you understand what I mean.  I think that many people who go through TTC completely punish themselves by feeling that for some reason they were not chosen to be parents. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: February TTC

    God's will and God's punishment are 2 different things. I agree w/ you, lil, in that chicklet should not feel that she is being punished by God if she can't naturally conceive and bear a child and that she is needlessly beating herself up on this point. But it most certainly is God's will if she cannot conceive and bear a child naturally.  This is why it's not a good idea to try to offer platutides regarding someone's faith.  {I hope otherwise but} Chicklet may very well not be able to bear and carry a child - how she comes to terms w/ that or whatever steps she takes to avoid that result are something that she needs to explore and decide for herself. So, I don't believe I misunderstood you. There is a big difference between feeling that you are being punished by God and accepting that God has a plan for you, one segment of which is one that you don't want to accept b/c of your personal wants. How you choose to address that dilemma is completely up to you, and between you and God alone.

    ETA; btw, there is no 'right' answer to the dlilemma of being Catholic and being told you won't conceive or bear a child w/o medical intervention. I personally don't care one way or the other what people ultimaltely decide. My own neices were born via donor eggs.  I don't think of them or their parents any differently.  I don't care what people do. But if you are going to opine on Catholic faith and how it translates in the TTC realm, you should do some reading up first -at least based on what I've read here so far.  I know that everyone is trying to be helpful and is well intentioned, but sometimes there are issues that you can't really offer assistance on, particualry in this kind of forum, and you need to go and speak w/ a priest, some other advisor or do some theological or philosphical research of your own and come to your own decision.
     
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