March 2011

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from lemonmelon. Show lemonmelon's posts

    Re: March 2011

    In Response to Re: March 2011:
    [QUOTE]So, is it possible to say that newborns available for adoption are not exactly unwanted and in need of a good home, but rather there are so many people wanting to adopt them, that the birth parents have more control over who they allow to adopt their child and can also seek reimbursement for the cost the incurred to have the child? Which is why the agencies are in existence and also why it costs so much more? In Response to Re: March 2011 :
    Posted by beniceboston[/QUOTE]

    I don't really know about newborns. I would give people the benefit of the doubt and think that birth parents want the child to have the best possible chance in life, so they seek out high-quality agencies who carefully screen parents and place the child with high-income couples who can give them every advantage, and that's why the adoption of a healthy infant costs so much. But I only know one person who adopted and one couple who is going through the process of adopting. The person I know who adopted went through a private agency and adopted a 2-year-old from Romania. It wasn't cheap. There are lots of rules and paperwork in overseas adoption, so in addition to the fees (and bribes) you have to pay, you also need legal representation through every step. The US adoption process is also very complicated, particularly because rules vary from state to state. But there has been a lot of effort made over the past 10 years to streamline the process, including the launch of http://www.adoptuskids.org/, which is a kind of petfinder for kids. My friends don't have a racial preference and aren't interested in adopting a baby -- they want an older child and don't mind if the kid has health or emotional problems -- so their options are greater and their costs are lower.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: March 2011

    I think the cost is high in the US b/c you are paying the birth mother's medical costs - either she doesn't have insurance, or there are co-pays that you are picking up.

    Sorry, but to say, well kids cost a lot in the end, so who cares what you are outlaying at the beginning is silly. Yes, they are expensive, so you might want to save that extra $50k you are spending up front so that you can afford the child care expenses, the car seat and other gear, and the cost of education later on down the road.

    I think people consider many many factors whether they have a child the old fashioned way, undergo fertility, or proceed by way of adoption.  Not considering cost for any of these methods is short sighted. Yes, children are wonderful, but sometimes it simply is too expensive to consider certain avenues.  The fact that people don't want to sell themselves down the river to bring home a child does not mean they are any less gung ho to be parents than someone who is willing to pay any amount.  I'm getting a real sense from this converation that unless you jump through every hoop imaginable and/or cash out your 401k the implication is that you must 'not really want' a kid.  That's very disturbing. There are many reasons involved and no one should make snap judgments regarding what those reasons are.

    I think my BIL/SIL are crazy for spending so much money to have kids. They probably think we are crazy for not spending that money to have kids.  Neither party is right. It's what's right for them. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from beniceboston. Show beniceboston's posts

    Re: March 2011

    Oh, I definitely don't think the birth parents are trying to make a buck, but from what I've heard it seems like that is part of the deal sometimes. My SIL and BIL adopted both of their children, and I think airfare etc is also included in the cost, they flew the mother of their first child here to MA so she could give birth at a local hospital.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from stefani2. Show stefani2's posts

    Re: March 2011

    fyi: not all companies in MA cover infertility.  mine didn't.  not so relevant, but wanted to note it!

    and, IMHO, it's no one's place to say anyone is insane for spending whatever they want and can for a wedding/car/anything else.  so much judgment on these boards ESPECIALLY regarding $.  it really bugs me!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: March 2011

    Yeah, ALF said that according to her life view, she thinks they are crazy, but she also said, "neither party is right, it's what's right for them." acknowledging that not everyone has to share her life view to be right.  We all have our opinions, and to say that ours is no more right than anyone else's is the opposite of judgmental.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: March 2011

    I can make whatever comments I like regarding my nutty [for many reasons] BIL/SIL. I do think they are crazy for spending what I consider to be large amounts of money on treatments that did not have a guaranteed outcome. They got lucky.  Had they not gotten lucky, they would have had an enormous credit card debt and nothing to  show for it.  I don't play the lottery for the same reason that I would never go this route [out of pocket expenses to get pg-never mind my philosophic/religous objection to it for myself].  Personally, if I were in their shoes and willing to spend the money, I would have gone the adoption route b/c the result is a little more guaranteed.

    It's a message board. If you don't like what is posted, move on. I will continue to exercise my First Amendment rights to say what I like. And to exercise my rights as an inlaw to make comments about my ILs where I can vent my spleen and not overset the applecart in my own house by making a comment to DH about his brother.   All I said to DH when he broached the subject was 'it's great it worked out for your brother.  We are not going that route'. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from lemonmelon. Show lemonmelon's posts

    Re: March 2011

    I actually think that one was directed toward me. And rightly so. But I stand by my statement.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from lemonmelon. Show lemonmelon's posts

    Re: March 2011

    In Response to Re: March 2011:
    [QUOTE]Oh, I definitely don't think the birth parents are trying to make a buck, but from what I've heard it seems like that is part of the deal sometimes. My SIL and BIL adopted both of their children, and I think airfare etc is also included in the cost, they flew the mother of their first child here to MA so she could give birth at a local hospital.
    Posted by beniceboston[/QUOTE]

    I think you can also agree to compensate for lost wages, pay for food, etc. I know it works that way for surrogates, anyway.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Lostgrouse. Show Lostgrouse's posts

    Re: March 2011

    In Response to Re: March 2011:
    [QUOTE]I actually think that one was directed toward me. And rightly so. But I stand by my statement.
    Posted by lemonmelon[/QUOTE]


    Cue Rocky music...
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from lemonmelon. Show lemonmelon's posts

    Re: March 2011

    In Response to Re: March 2011:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: March 2011 : Cue Rocky music...
    Posted by Lostgrouse[/QUOTE]
    I REGRET NOTHING
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: March 2011

    STELLAAAAAAAAA!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from JMD62. Show JMD62's posts

    Re: March 2011

    I’ve been a reader of this discussion board for awhile now, but haven’t posted before.  I want to address some misconceptions about adoption that are cropping up in this thread.  I am an adoptive mom and, while every adoption experience is different, I might be able to clarify a few things. There are three common paths to adopting a child, which I’ll describe in broad strokes (there are variations).  International adoptions are generally completed with the assistance of an adoption agency.  Typically, children who are adopted internationally are at least 9 months old, depending on the country and what age child the adoptive family is open to adopting.  It is possible to adopt domestically either through the state (foster care) or through an adoption agency (or sometimes working just with a lawyer).  Children available for adoption through the state are typically older.  There are no fees to adopt a child through the state.  Children who are adopted domestically with the assistance of an agency are often newborns.  Unlike adoptions completed through the state, in these cases the birthparents are relinquishing their parental rights voluntarily and they choose what family to place their child with.  My partner and I adopted a newborn, domestically, working with an adoption agency. 

    Costs associated with completing a domestic adoption through an agency vary, but typically include:

    -- Having a home study completed by a licensed social worker

    -- Fees to the adoption agency to do things like:     -- work with you to determine what type of adoption is right for you and what type of child you could be good parents to (e.g., are you capable of meeting the needs of a child of a different race? what about a child with health issues? do you want contact with the birthparents?)     -- provide support to birthparents (e.g., counseling to make sure that they are making the right choice for themselves and the child)    -- and please note that many, maybe even most, adoption agencies are non-profits.

    -- Fees to a lawyer to prepare the paperwork required to terminate the parental rights of birthparents and to prepare documents required for the adoptive parents to complete the adoption.  The lawyer will also represent the adoptive parents in court.

    -- Having post-placement reports completed by a licensed social worker-- Miscellaneous other expenses, including travel and lodging (even for domestic adoptions, if the child is born in another state)-- Sometimes, but I’d bet not often, adoptive parents contribute to the medical expenses or living expenses of the birthmother.-- As I said, I didn’t adopt internationally – but that would involve additional sorts of expenses, such as the agency hiring someone to translate documents from/into a foreign language, coordinating with the State Dept., plus many things I’m sure I can’t even anticipate. -- The adoption tax credit, mentioned earlier, is an excellent way to help offset the costs associated with adoption. 
    Many people were involved in bringing my daughter to me – social workers, adoption agency staff, a lawyer – and I paid for their services.  I did not buy my child.
     And I did not choose adoption in order to rescue a child.  Like biological mothers, I just really wanted to be a parent and adoption was the best way for me to do that.  I’ve had people tell me how lucky my daughter is that I adopted her.  No, I am unbelievably lucky to have her in my life and grateful to have the opportunity to be a mom.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Lostgrouse. Show Lostgrouse's posts

    Re: March 2011

    Like!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: March 2011

    I'm glad you had a great experience.  I still cannot stomach any costs associated w/ adoption beyond general agency fees; to me it IS funding the purchase of another human being.  I firmly believe this and find it abhorrant.  We will have to agree to disagree on this. There is no reason for the costs of adoption to be as high as they are.  I have looked into it [not extensively b/c DH is opposed to it] and the costs are outrageously high, IMO. If we were to adopt, it would only be a newborn, so even using your experience, the costs are higher.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomarra. Show tomarra's posts

    Re: March 2011

    Thanks JMD that was very insightful and welcome to the boards!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from lemonmelon. Show lemonmelon's posts

    Re: March 2011

    Thanks, JMD! Great post!

    Alf, let it go.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from am1028. Show am1028's posts

    Re: March 2011

    Yes, Thank you JMD for that really insightful post.

    And I agree with lemon, ALF, please just let it go.  Perhaps technically, semantically, if you adopted or paid for fertility treatments, you bought your child, but that's kind of a ridiculous way of looking at it. You aren't paying to OWN the child, you are paying for all the services it takes to make sure that the situation the child is getting into is the best one for him or her.  My sister is adopted and I take some serious offense at someone saying she was purchased like a slave or something.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Lostgrouse. Show Lostgrouse's posts

    Re: March 2011

    Boy am I glad that my like didn't appear under ALF's post!  


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: March 2011

    Whatever.  I have my opinions and I'm entitled to them.  You really don't want to hear my opinions on fertility treatments, which is why I don't share them on this forum.

    Lostgrouse, even if your post had appeared under mine, I'm sure people would have figured out that you would never be 'liking' one of my posts. 

    Perhaps you all missed my earlier post about my best friend and her sister being adopted.  I think the cost of adoption today is out of control.  There are legitimate fees, but when you get in the tens of thousands of dollars range, it really is hard to justify as legitimate expense, at least to me.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from kiwigal. Show kiwigal's posts

    Re: March 2011

    I am totally confused. Just last week, on page 4 of this thread. This was ALF's response to Kar's question of why adoption fees are so high:

    Kar, I have no idea re specifics b/c I haven't looked into it in depth, but I am guessing that the reason each adoption is so expensive is b/c of the legal fees involved in a properly processed adoption.  If you figure the monetary split is 60/20/20 for legal fees/agency fees/state fees [just guessing, but this feels right] then $30-50k would be the general average.  Adoption attorneys are specialized and are going to cost a few hundred per hour no matter what state you are in. 

    So, the costs seemed reasonable when it was to cover an attorney's time and effort. But now that it has been explained that the fees cover the work of others to look after the interests of the parties involved, it's suddenly "abhorrent" and likened to human trafficking. Whoa. That's a leap, it seems.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Lostgrouse. Show Lostgrouse's posts

    Re: March 2011

    I like this post ALF!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Lostgrouse. Show Lostgrouse's posts

    Re: March 2011

    ALF, the only reason why you're getting backlash here is not because of your opinions as you are entitled to your own opinions.  It's just the fact that JMD came here to address some misconceptions and then your comment "I firmly believe this and find it abhorrant." seems like a slap in the face to those who have chosen to adopt.  Now maybe you were referring to the costs of adoption being abhorrant, and not the act of adoption, but your post is not clear on that front and therefore you are getting "dislikes".   
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: March 2011

    In Response to Re: March 2011:
    [QUOTE]I am totally confused. Just last week, on page 4 of this thread. This was ALF's response to Kar's question of why adoption fees are so high: Kar, I have no idea re specifics b/c I haven't looked into it in depth, but I am guessing that the reason each adoption is so expensive is b/c of the legal fees involved in a properly processed adoption.  If you figure the monetary split is 60/20/20 for legal fees/agency fees/state fees [just guessing, but this feels right] then $30-50k would be the general average.  Adoption attorneys are specialized and are going to cost a few hundred per hour no matter what state you are in.  So, the costs seemed reasonable when it was to cover an attorney's time and effort. But now that it has been explained that the fees cover the work of others to look after the interests of the parties involved, it's suddenly "abhorrent" and likened to human trafficking. Whoa. That's a leap, it seems.
    Posted by kiwigal[/QUOTE]

    I said on more than one occasion that I have looked into it, but not in depth b/c DH isn't interested in adopting. I looked at it a state other than MA.  The fees were high and related to legal fees. I get that legal fees are high for most people [being a lawyer I have first hand knowledge of this- I don't think the fees are high from a legal work standpoint b/c of the time involved, but I disagree w/ the need for the legal fees to even exist in the first place. One shoud not have to jump through as many legal hoops as they are currently in place to adopt.  It should be easier to terminate parental rights than it is.  But I digress].

    If you want, I will be happy to post what states I looked at and particular agencies, provided I can find the stuff. We moved about a year and a half ago. I do most things the 'old fashioned way' and do paper copies. I'm not even sure I  saved this stuff b/c DH isn't interested in adopting. 

    If you want, I can also expand on why I find human trafficking abhorrent, and explain it's reference to fertility treatment and adoption.  That may have to wait a bit b/c I could go on for quite a while. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from am1028. Show am1028's posts

    Re: March 2011

    I'm betting that a big reason that the cost of adopting is so much higher today than it was in the good ole days is because the legal fees are so much higher now than they were then.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: March 2011

    how on earth could anyone think that my posts meant that I find adoption abhorrent?  All of my posts have clearly referred to the costs of adoption.

     

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