Bergeron for #4

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bandgbleeder. Show bandgbleeder's posts

    Re: Bergeron for #4

    If Fowler goes at number four, his cap hit with bonuses and stuff will still be over 2million, and close to three. Nope, not trading Bergeron for that. Krejci maybe, but not Bergeron or Savard.

    In Response to Bergeron for #4:
    It's been written that Florida is in need of a Center. Assuming that Fowler is still left at #3, would you trade Bergeron for the pick? Here are the Pros and Cons of the deal as I see them. Pros: - You're trading one year of Bergeron (he's a UFA after this year) for 3-7 years of Fowler. - Puck moving defensemen are hard to come by. - You dump bergeron's cap hit (~$4.5 million), probably giving you about $3 million extra to play with this year. Cons: - Bergeron is an excellent two-way center. - You lose his leadership. - Fowler is unproven. For the record I would make the trade, although it would be tough. I'd compare it to the trade that sent Richard Seymour away for the Patriots, which I was also in favor of, although grudingly: it's sending away a great player and teammate, but it's a good thing for the team long-term.
    Posted by legolaspinkerton

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from bandgbleeder. Show bandgbleeder's posts

    Re: Bergeron for #4

    Also:
    Bergeron is larger, hits more, hits better, hasn't said how much better he likes playing with guys from one side of the pond or the other, and takes s*** from no one.

    That said, I like Krejci a lot and would be sad to see him go, I'd be furious to see Bergeron go unless he publicly demanded a trade.

    In Response to Re: Bergeron for #4:
    Bergy had 52 points in 73 games while Krejci had 52 points in 79 games. In the play-offs, Krejci got his 8th point on the play he was injured on, Bergy had 9 points at that time. Bergy had a revolving door on his wing opposite Recci. For their careers, Bergy is averaging .74 points to Krejci's .68. Bergy is better defensively, better at face-offs and scores more, and only about ten months older. As for their first seasons, Bergy was barely 18 when he had 39 points to lead the league in rookie scoring and come in second in ROY award. Krejci was on the I95 shuttle his first two years in the pro's. But his first full NHL season was his third pro season and he scored 73 points, which Bergy also did his second year as a pro. As for the Claude comment, it happened around dec or jan, before the Olympics. Don't remember the actual date, but it did happen. his work ethic was questioned his first two years here, that's why he was on the I95 shuttle. So since Bergy out produces him, out works him, is a more complete player, I'd rather see Krejci go before Bergy, everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. And as for the +/-, Neely never led the league either, I'd still take him.
    Posted by emjd

     
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    Re: Bergeron for #4


    we have to remember that Dale Tallon is now the general manager in Florida, and he came from building a Chicago team through drafting stars like Kane and Toews, so i agree that Florida doesnt trade that pick at all, if anything i can see them either taking Fowler or trading down to get a Center

    Columbus is a better fit because they could be only 1 player away from making the playoffs, they had a very bad yr after making the playoffs in 2009....and they desperately need someone to play with Nash
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from captainbergeron. Show captainbergeron's posts

    Re: Bergeron for #4

       Another thing to consider over the past 3 seasons we had  major injuries to at least one of our top three centers. Our offense dipped during each of those time periods as our fourth line center was pushed into a role he wasn't intended to play. I wouldn't mind having Seguin or Bergeron on the wing and still be availabe as extra depth at center in case of another injury.
       If I had my way I'd draft Seguin and put him on a line with Bergeron at center and Recchi on the the left wing. These are the two guys I want Seguin to learn from.
     
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    Re: Bergeron for #4

    I'd trade Savard (if even possible) before I'd trade Bergeron.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from scooter244. Show scooter244's posts

    Re: Bergeron for #4

    Before camp opened the B's made a decision of Krejci over Kessel.   Couldn't pay them both.  I agree with that decision.  No way we trade Krejci.  No way we trade Bergeron.  Best player on the team night in and night out.  That leaves Savard.  And even though I just bought a Savard jersey, I think he is the odd man out.  But, not until next year or the trade deadline at least.  We need to see more of Seguin's game before that move is made.    
     
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    Re: Bergeron for #4

    In Response to Re: Bergeron for #4:
       Another thing to consider over the past 3 seasons we had  major injuries to at least one of our top three centers. Our offense dipped during each of those time periods as our fourth line center was pushed into a role he wasn't intended to play. I wouldn't mind having Seguin or Bergeron on the wing and still be availabe as extra depth at center in case of another injury.    If I had my way I'd draft Seguin and put him on a line with Bergeron at center and Recchi on the the left wing. These are the two guys I want Seguin to learn from.
    Posted by captainbergeron

     
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    Re: Bergeron for #4

    I completely agree with you on this. Seguin on the wing along with Recchi centered by Bergy I think would be Ideal. talk about learning from the masters, i believe this would help his development for more than playing with anyone else on the team. Seguin would see first hand what it means to be a Bruin.
    I am glad the fans are not in control of this team, although some are insightful others are just crazed.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: Bergeron for #4

    In Response to Re: Bergeron for #4:
    In Response to Re: Bergeron for #4 : I think he is, but the trade partner has to have the need for his services.  Bergeron is greatly undervalued here because he's not Stamkos and he's not St. Louis.  He's also not Mike Green and he's also not JS Giguere. His play, and what he bring to the ice, is very general.  It might not show up on the score sheet every night, but that doesn't make him less valuable.  He's not going to lead your team in goals, but that's not why you have him.  He's not going to lead your team in assists, but that's not why you have him.  He's not going to play defense or goaltender either, but that's not why you have him. If not mired on third line duty, he could score 30.  If he had a better set of wingers around him, her could get credit for 50 assists.  Meanwhile, he'll just continue to do well offensively, do well defensively, shut down the other club's top guy, crush it in the faceoff circle, man the PP point, excel on the PK, play hard every shift, throw his body around, and lead by example. And those are only the things we can see.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    I absolutely agree with all of these points.  However, none of them is enough reason to ignore Bergeron's cap hit.  Being a useful, versatile, effective 2-way leader is not worth what he costs.  If you HAVE to move someone, it HAS to be Bergeron.

    However, the team with the second to last offense in the NHL is talking about trading Bergeron for a #3 pick that projects as a defenseman?  Uh, no.

    The B's have no business moving Bergeron, Krecji or Savard.  Take Seguin #2, move him to wing and life goes on.  The team would be far better served if they could move any of the awful contracts of Thomas, Ryder, Wideman or Ference.
     
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    Re: Bergeron for #4

    In Response to Re: Bergeron for #4:
    Before camp opened the B's made a decision of Krejci over Kessel.   Couldn't pay them both.  I agree with that decision.  No way we trade Krejci.  No way we trade Bergeron.  Best player on the team night in and night out.  That leaves Savard.  And even though I just bought a Savard jersey, I think he is the odd man out.  But, not until next year or the trade deadline at least.  We need to see more of Seguin's game before that move is made.    
    Posted by scooter244


       I agree if a center is going to be moved it won't be until next trade deadline or at the end of the season when Bergeron's contract is up. There is no need to make a move before then. It's not that critical to move Bergeron's $5 million salary now.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Bergeron for #4

    In Response to Re: Bergeron for #4:
    In Response to Bergeron for #4 : If Florida is in such bad shape at center that they are willing to trade the #4 pick, wouldn't they want a guy who is going to put up more points? Patrice Bergeron is a fantastic player who makes a team complete.  He can play every forward position and mans the point on the PP.  He fills in all of the gaps any club might have (see:  Team Canada), but isn't the superstud that takes a team from the doledrums to the spotlight by himself.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    Which is it?  Bergy is too valuable to trade for the #4 pick?  Or Bergy does not score enough to justify the #4 pick?  Based on your most recent comment, it likes like you finally came around to my point-of-view.  Let me know if you need any more recommendations.

    In Response to Re: Blake Wheeler, 15 and 32 for the 4th overall pick?:
    Seguin is not a good center?  How many good centers do you need?  We have no finishers. Our best finishers are Sturm (potentially out-for-the-season) and Ryder (awful).   Make the case that we should move Bergy to Wing, but please don't tell me that we cannot trade Bergy for a pick because he won a gold medal with Team Canada.  I know this upsets people but Bergy had 52 points last year and is not worth $5M.  I would be fine moving him in a deal that lands the #4 pick to select either Fowler or Gudbranson.
    Posted by Crowls2424



    I'm not saying that he can't be traded for a pick because he won a gold medal.  I'm saying that if you're good enough to make Team Canada for the Olympics, you are worth a heck of a lot more than a #4 draft pick.

    You don't trade a world class player (talk about his point production all you want, Team Canada players are world class) for the #4 pick in any draft.

    Maybe, in a hype year like this, you trade someone like him for the #1 or #2, but that's an isolated example.
    Just give me what I want and no one gets hurt.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BruinsFanInPenTerritory. Show BruinsFanInPenTerritory's posts

    Re: Bergeron for #4

    For those of you who are thinking Savard should go, he has a full NTC for 2010-2011, a partial for the next two and no NTC afterward. According to capgeek, his cap his is $4 million annually, which isn't that bad when you think about it.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from JYaso. Show JYaso's posts

    Re: Bergeron for #4

    However, none of them is enough reason to ignore Bergeron's cap hit.  Being a useful, versatile, effective 2-way leader is not worth what he costs.  If you HAVE to move someone, it HAS to be Bergeron.

    NO---- NO ----- NOOOOOOO!

    Why is it that we have all these "capologists".  Bergeron gives this team value for what he is paid--- period.  He shows up to play every night on both sides of the ice.  His value in killing penalties, winning faceoffs, grinding on every shift for puck control etc... is his greatest asset to the "team" game that is key to the success of this team.  Surround him with better wingers that can actually put the puck in the net and he will give you more offensively then on past stat sheets.  Trading him for a draft pick that might never materialize into anything is just stupid.

    Again, all the capologists here's an idea--- trade Thomas (5 mill) and Ryder (4 mill) to free up space.  For those of you who will say, they can't be traded because of their contracts--think again.  Thomas is by far a commodity and there will be teams (San Jose, St. Louis, Tampa Bay) that would love to have him.  Ryder will be tougher to move, but if you include  a draft pick with some value it may be worth freeing up cap space that way.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Bergeron for #4

    In Response to Re: Bergeron for #4:
    In Response to Re: Bergeron for #4 : Which is it?  Bergy is too valuable to trade for the #4 pick?  Or Bergy does not score enough to justify the #4 pick? 
    Posted by Crowls2424


    The trade isn't a good fit for either side. 

    If Vancouver was holding the #4 pick, I'm sure they would trade for Kiprusoff.  Kiprusoff is worth more than a #4 pick, but he's not a good fit with Luongo in Vancouver already.

    Keep trying to discredit me.  Keep failing.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Bergeron for #4

    In Response to Re: Bergeron for #4:
    In Response to Re: Bergeron for #4 : The trade isn't a good fit for either side.  If Vancouver was holding the #4 pick, I'm sure they would trade for Kiprusoff.  Kiprusoff is worth more than a #4 pick, but he's not a good fit with Luongo in Vancouver already. Keep trying to discredit me.  Keep failing.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    Nice try.  In one thread, you rip me for suggesting that Bergy could be traded for a draft pick.  I another thread, you are saying that Bergy is not valuable enough to acquire a high draft pick.
     
    You discredit yourself with your inconsistent positions and comments.  I am happy to see that you finally see things my way though, I was hoping you might come around, grasshopper.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Bergeron for #4

    In Response to Re: Bergeron for #4:
    In Response to Re: Bergeron for #4 : Nice try.  In one thread, you rip me for suggesting that Bergy could be traded for a draft pick.  I another thread, you are saying that Bergy is not valuable enough to acquire a high draft pick.   You discredit yourself with your inconsistent positions and comments.  I am happy to see that you finally see things my way though, I was hoping you might come around, grasshopper.
    Posted by Crowls2424


    Misquote me all day.  Doesn't bug me at all.

    Enjoy!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Bergeron for #4

    In Response to Re: Bergeron for #4:
    In Response to Re: Bergeron for #4 : Nice try.  In one thread, you rip me for suggesting that Bergy could be traded for a draft pick.  I another thread, you are saying that Bergy is not valuable enough to acquire a high draft pick.   You discredit yourself with your inconsistent positions and comments.  I am happy to see that you finally see things my way though, I was hoping you might come around, grasshopper.
    Posted by Crowls2424


    I see where the confusion.might be.  In my example using Kiprusoff, it was supposed to say that Vancouver "wouldn't" trade for Kiprusoff, even thought Kiprusoff is clearly worth the #4 pick.  My mistake!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Bergeron for #4

    In Response to Re: Bergeron for #4:
    In Response to Re: Bergeron for #4 : Which is it?  Bergy is too valuable to trade for the #4 pick?  Or Bergy does not score enough to justify the #4 pick?  Based on your most recent comment, it likes like you finally came around to my point-of-view.  Let me know if you need any more recommendations. In Response to Re: Blake Wheeler, 15 and 32 for the 4th overall pick? : Seguin is not a good center?  How many good centers do you need?  We have no finishers. Our best finishers are Sturm (potentially out-for-the-season) and Ryder (awful).   Make the case that we should move Bergy to Wing, but please don't tell me that we cannot trade Bergy for a pick because he won a gold medal with Team Canada.  I know this upsets people but Bergy had 52 points last year and is not worth $5M.  I would be fine moving him in a deal that lands the #4 pick to select either Fowler or Gudbranson. Posted by Crowls2424 I'm not saying that he can't be traded for a pick because he won a gold medal.  I'm saying that if you're good enough to make Team Canada for the Olympics, you are worth a heck of a lot more than a #4 draft pick. You don't trade a world class player (talk about his point production all you want, Team Canada players are world class) for the #4 pick in any draft. Maybe, in a hype year like this, you trade someone like him for the #1 or #2, but that's an isolated example. Just give me what I want and no one gets hurt.
    Posted by Crowls2424

    Clear thinking Crowls2424,  Bergeron is up for a contract in a year.  Time to find out what his worth is going into the draft and UFA season.  Same goes for Chara.  Now, are the Bs a better team with those two? Ahhhh Yes!  A trade for a winger will cost a top line player though, no doubt.  Everyone has their favorites, mine is Bergeron.  But, if the team is better with a winger after selecting Seguin for instance, then Bergeron is the player to trade.  I think Krejci is as a better offensive player with heart I might add, but he too is very injury prone.  This is the second year I have heard that Krejci was hurt so the Bruins did not move on beyond the second round.  I hold on to the belief these two are young and their fortunes are better than not.  Yet, the fact remains the Bs have too many centers. Too many centers that are hurt often as well.   


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Bergeron for #4

    Thank you for the feedback islamorada, and great perspective on the injury problems for the top three centers on this team as well.  

     
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from xenimus. Show xenimus's posts

    Re: Bergeron for #4

    In Response to Re: Bergeron for #4:
    Bergy had 52 points in 73 games while Krejci had 52 points in 79 games. In the play-offs, Krejci got his 8th point on the play he was injured on, Bergy had 9 points at that time. Bergy had a revolving door on his wing opposite Recci. For their careers, Bergy is averaging .74 points to Krejci's .68. Bergy is better defensively, better at face-offs and scores more, and only about ten months older. As for their first seasons, Bergy was barely 18 when he had 39 points to lead the league in rookie scoring and come in second in ROY award. Krejci was on the I95 shuttle his first two years in the pro's. But his first full NHL season was his third pro season and he scored 73 points, which Bergy also did his second year as a pro. As for the Claude comment, it happened around dec or jan, before the Olympics. Don't remember the actual date, but it did happen. his work ethic was questioned his first two years here, that's why he was on the I95 shuttle. So since Bergy out produces him, out works him, is a more complete player, I'd rather see Krejci go before Bergy, everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. And as for the +/-, Neely never led the league either, I'd still take him.
    Posted by emjd



    AMEN! People just fall in love with Krejci's fancy stick work. Very good player but not as good as Bergeron. By the way Bergeron scored 31 goals when they called up Boyes mid-way through the season. Give the guy some players and you will see a new phenom rise to the top. There's no question in my mind that Bergeron can be the leading point scorer on this team, he's too talented.

    Also, he was playing 9lbs below his normal weight all season (186lbs), original weight (195lbs). Claude even stated that Bergeron is still not as strong as before and expects him to be much better next season. He will be able to have a full summer without "RESTRICTIONS" on rigorous training, unlike last off-season.

    Seriously, before his concussion people were saying that he was a franchise player for years to come. The kid had an un-fortunate injury and all of a sudden he's just nothing but an over-achieving 3rd-liner?... You fans are whacked!
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from felixwas. Show felixwas's posts

    Re: Bergeron for #4

    Blasphemy!

    And I agree with you.


    In Response to Re: Bergeron for #4:
    I'd trade Savard (if even possible) before I'd trade Bergeron.
    Posted by everyname


     
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    Re: Bergeron for #4

    Don't cloud the issue with facts. After all, if we can talk about trading Timmy, we can talk about trading Savvy.

    In Response to Re: Bergeron for #4:
    For those of you who are thinking Savard should go, he has a full NTC for 2010-2011, a partial for the next two and no NTC afterward. According to capgeek, his cap his is $4 million annually, which isn't that bad when you think about it.
    Posted by BruinsFanInPenTerritory


     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Bergeron for #4

    In Response to Re: Bergeron for #4:
    In Response to Re: Bergeron for #4 : AMEN! People just fall in love with Krejci's fancy stick work. Very good player but not as good as Bergeron. By the way Bergeron scored 31 goals when they called up Boyes mid-way through the season. Give the guy some players and you will see a new phenom rise to the top. There's no question in my mind that Bergeron can be the leading point scorer on this team, he's too talented. Also, he was playing 9lbs below his normal weight all season (186lbs), original weight (195lbs). Claude even stated that Bergeron is still not as strong as before and expects him to be much better next season. He will be able to have a full summer without "RESTRICTIONS" on rigorous training, unlike last off-season. Seriously, before his concussion people were saying that he was a franchise player for years to come. The kid had an un-fortunate injury and all of a sudden he's just nothing but an over-achieving 3rd-liner?... You fans are whacked!
    Posted by xenimus


    First off, Bergy has sustained two significant concussions.  Not his fault, but his career trajectory has been severely influenced by these events.

    I have not read one post suggesting that Bergy is an over-achieving 3rd-liner.  Look at the subject of this thread....Bergeron for #4.  The subject alone suggests that Bergy is a high-value player.  Notice that is doesn't say Daniel Paille or Brad Marchand for the #4?  Seems to me like most believe Bergy is a huge asset to the team, but is entering the final year of his contract.  The team needs help on the wing, with a logjam of centers.  It is natural to discuss options, I support moving him to acquire help in other places.  Seems to me that line of thinking is a far cry from "whacked" as you suggest.  
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Bergeron for #4

    In Response to Re: Bergeron for #4:
    In Response to Re: Bergeron for #4 : First off, Bergy has sustained two significant concussions.  Not his fault, but his career trajectory has been severely influenced by these events. I have not read one post suggesting that Bergy is an over-achieving 3rd-liner.  Look at the subject of this thread....Bergeron for #4.  The subject alone suggests that Bergy is a high-value player.  Notice that is doesn't say Daniel Paille or Brad Marchand for the #4?  Seems to me like most believe Bergy is a huge asset to the team, but is entering the final year of his contract.  The team needs help on the wing, with a logjam of centers.  It is natural to discuss options, I support moving him to acquire help in other places.  Seems to me that line of thinking is a far cry from "whacked" as you suggest.  
    Posted by Crowls2424


    What if Bergeron signs for less than $5M and moves to the wing position?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Bergeron for #4

    In Response to Re: Bergeron for #4:
    In Response to Re: Bergeron for #4 : What if Bergeron signs for less than $5M and moves to the wing position?
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    Seems like a reasonable solution.  Maybe skate him on RW with Savvy?  I am concerned about the cap-impact and a little concerned about a guy that has sustained major concussions playing the wall. 

    He is talented enough to do it, no doubt.  I would expect him to be better than either Sturm or Ryder, but with the concussions? A 3-4 year extension worth $3.5-$4M would seem reasonable.  I would bite on that.
     
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