It is painfully obvious that the B's need to clear room, and I don't think trading Savvy is the answer. They will still need at least $4million off the books (by my guesstimate) to resign Wheeler, and then to sign Campbell and Seguin. Not to mention that they will need to leave a little room for potential midseason trades...
PC has already said he will not be buying anyone out, and I have a hard time believing that management and ownership would be willing to bury Ryder and providence, even if he is making a large salary.
What are the chances that the B's waive Thomas? I know he is still a good goalie, that there are some concerns about Rask's sophomore season, and that a Thomas/Rask tandem would be arguably the best in the NHL, but the B's desperately need to clear space, and I can't see any team giving up an asset for a goalie of Thomas' age making his money.
For the record, I am a big Thomas fan, and have been for some time, and while it would be sad to see him depart in such a manner, the Bruin's really need cap space if they are going to put together a run for the Cup.
Short of sending Ryder to Providence or releasing Thomas, are there any other ways the B's can clear cap space without doing irreparable damage to their offence (ie by trading Savvy)?
If so, please let me know, because I am drawing a blank.
Cap Space
-
Cap Space
posted at 7/14/2010 12:29 AM EDT
- Blackmale
- Posts: 41
- First: 7/14/2010
- Last: 11/3/2010
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Re: Cap Space
posted at 7/14/2010 1:16 AM EDT
- Not-A-Shot
- Posts: 14245
- First: 12/30/2009
- Last: 5/24/2013
Ryder will get sent to Providence before Thomas, thereby creating the $4M in cap space you've requested.
Thomas is not getting waived. -
Re: Cap Space
posted at 7/14/2010 2:36 AM EDT
- SanDogBrewin
- Posts: 14554
- First: 4/18/2009
- Last: 5/24/2013
http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nhl/news/story?id=5366352"But for now, it appears Chiarelli will wait until Wheeler and Campbell receive their arbitration awards, which could come down between July 20 and Aug. 4."
"Right now we're standing pat," he said. "You look out here, there might be a few guys that are going to challenge [for a spot on the B's roster]. I like our prospect depth. Right now I'm standing pat. That may change, but right now I'm standing pat."
If the awards do push the Bruins over the cap, Chiarelli is prepared to do what he has to do to remedy the situation.
"Well then I'll have to make a move," he bluntly said when asked about such a scenario.
Chiarelli said he will re-sign McQuaid, a restricted free agent, most likely to a two-way contract. (Does not have to pass through waivers with a two-way)"He's earned a shot, so we have to get him signed also," Chiarelli said.
I expect moves during pre-season camp Hunwick traded, Ryder traded or just sent to Providence. -
Re: Cap Space
posted at 7/14/2010 2:49 AM EDT
- RMiller87
- Posts: 1749
- First: 5/3/2010
- Last: 4/5/2011
Good to hear that McQuaid will be resigned next season...Sounds like Chiarelli has also learned an important lesson from the Ference resigning...The Bruins don't need to make any future moves until they are forced to... -
Re: Cap Space
posted at 7/14/2010 3:41 AM EDT
- lordy4
- Posts: 298
- First: 11/19/2005
- Last: 5/9/2013
Trading Savard may be the only answer. Thomas isn't going anywhere. His contract won't allow it. Ryder could be demoted to Providence, but he may not be. He is one of Julien's boys. What happens if Ryder lights it up in the preseason? Not saying he will, but if he does, how do you justify sending him down when the team needs offense?
Unlike some others, I don't think trading Savard is a horrible idea. First off, he lost a lot of respect by not owning up to his mistake in game 7 against the Flyers on the too-many-men-on-the-ice penalty. He waved Sobotka on to the ice but then stayed on. Instead of taking responsibility like a leader does, he blamed Sobotka. That's not a move a leader or good teammate makes. I've read in several places that this angered Neely. That could be a problem for Savard. The Bruins are deep at center and Seguin will be a stud center within a year or two. A year ago at this time, I would have been furios at the thought of trading Savard. Right now, I'm not. He didn't do much of anything for the team last year. I know he was injured, but he wasn't always effective when he was playing. I feel that the Bruins have enough depth to compensate for losing Savard.
Keeping Savard this year wouldn't be a bad thing, but in the long run, I think it is better if he gets traded. -
Re: Cap Space
posted at 7/14/2010 8:19 AM EDT
- bandgbleeder
- Posts: 1209
- First: 9/23/2008
- Last: 2/17/2013
I know Hunwick looked mediocre to bad a lot of last year, but trading him doesn't make sense.
1) PC, CJ or CN said they thought he turned a corner late in the season.
2) He's cheap.
3) He's got the most accurate shot of any of the defense.
4) He's the best skater of any of the defence.
As we saw against Carolina two years ago if your defense is slow you go, period.
If any defenseman gets traded its Ference. They had inquires about him last year. He'd actually be good for a couple teams, and he'd free up twice the cap space of Hunwick.
In Response to Re: Cap Space:http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nhl/news/story?id=5366352 "But for now, it appears Chiarelli will wait until Wheeler and Campbell receive their arbitration awards, which could come down between July 20 and Aug. 4." "Right now we're standing pat," he said. "You look out here, there might be a few guys that are going to challenge [for a spot on the B's roster]. I like our prospect depth. Right now I'm standing pat. That may change, but right now I'm standing pat." If the awards do push the Bruins over the cap, Chiarelli is prepared to do what he has to do to remedy the situation. "Well then I'll have to make a move," he bluntly said when asked about such a scenario. Chiarelli said he will re-sign McQuaid, a restricted free agent, most likely to a two-way contract. (Does not have to pass through waivers with a two-way) "He's earned a shot, so we have to get him signed also," Chiarelli said.I expect moves during pre-season camp Hunwick traded, Ryder traded or just sent to Providence.
Posted by SanDogBrewin -
Re: Cap Space
posted at 7/14/2010 8:24 AM EDT
- BadHabitude
- Posts: 9622
- First: 7/2/2008
- Last: 5/24/2013
In Response to Re: Cap Space:Ryder will get sent to Providence before Thomas, thereby creating the $4M in cap space you've requested. Thomas is not getting waived.
Posted by Not-A-Shot
This is the theory that I find most plausible based on what they've said publicly. -
Re: Cap Space
posted at 7/14/2010 8:49 AM EDT
- Clyde-Fitch
- Posts: 34
- First: 2/23/2010
- Last: 5/18/2013
This Salary Cap Panic doesn't make any sense to me.
Correct me if I'm wrong
I know the Bruins are tight against the Cap ($1.76Mil left)
They have to sign about $4.5Mil
Wheeler ($2M)
Campbell($1M)
Seguin($.9Mil with Deferred Bonus)
#7Depth D-Man ($.6M)
The Bruins will also have 3.5 Mil Cap relief while Sturm is out (Nov?)
This would give the Bruins $5.25 to sign these players.
Anything can happen between now and November. Why should the bruins Rush to dump Savard, Thomas, or Ryder?
If the Bruins find themselves healthy in November facing a CAP Crunch and are unable to unload a bad contract (i.e. Ryder, Thomas) they could demote Ryder as a last resort.
The worst case situation would be that Ryder was playing really well when/if Sturm get back and you would have to find someone else to dump (Ference?)
I would take this over trading Savard. -
Re: Cap Space
posted at 7/14/2010 8:51 AM EDT
- DrCC
- Posts: 2661
- First: 10/21/2008
- Last: 5/23/2013
Even without a No Movement Clause, nothing short of a trade (or maybe death?) could remove Thomas' cap hit. It's a 35+ contract. -
Re: Cap Space
posted at 7/14/2010 8:57 AM EDT
- rolerhoky19
- Posts: 2833
- First: 8/19/2009
- Last: 9/22/2011
In Response to Re: Cap Space:This Salary Cap Panic doesn't make any sense to me. Correct me if I'm wrong I know the Bruins are tight against the Cap ($1.76Mil left) They have to sign about $4.5Mil Wheeler ($2M) Campbell($1M) Seguin($.9Mil with Deferred Bonus) #7Depth D-Man ($.6M) The Bruins will also have 3.5 Mil Cap relief while Sturm is out (Nov?) This would give the Bruins $5.25 to sign these players. Anything can happen between now and November. Why should the bruins Rush to dump Savard, Thomas, or Ryder? If the Bruins find themselves healthy in November facing a CAP Crunch and are unable to unload a bad contract (i.e. Ryder, Thomas) they could demote Ryder as a last resort. The worst case situation would be that Ryder was playing really well when/if Sturm get back and you would have to find someone else to dump (Ference?) I would take this over trading Savard.
Posted by Clyde-Fitch
I don't think I have seen this explored yet, but when sturm comes back the bruins would have the opportunity to send down all guys on 2 way deals while they activate sturm. They can do this on an off day, at that point sturm can be activated and sent to providence for conditioning, while these guys are called back up.
If sturm can return to form, then you make a move to bring him up, and if not you let him rehab the rest of the year in providence. If ryder is having a good season, and sturm isnt able to be the player he was 2-3 years ago, Ryder is probably a better option for the bruins at this stage. -
Re: Cap Space
posted at 7/14/2010 9:14 AM EDT
- Raskman
- Posts: 0
- First: 8/19/2009
- Last: 9/22/2011
pbergeron37 is correct, Thomas CANNOT be waived. He has a No Movement Clause and waiving him could cause him to move. Basically the clause keeps us from trading, waiving, or demoting him. The fact he has a 35+ contract means that if he retires or leaves and plays elsewhere we still have the cap hit of $5M for the life of the contract. Basically TT has to be traded or injured for a long period of time (Zhamnov-like) to get any type of cap relief.
Demoting Ryder is the easiest move to get us some cap space and next would be moving Savard. Hell if you can find a way to move TT, Ryder, and Savard we could get in on the Kovalchuk sweepstakes...just kidding. -
Re: Cap Space
posted at 7/14/2010 9:19 AM EDT
- BadHabitude
- Posts: 9622
- First: 7/2/2008
- Last: 5/24/2013
In Response to Re: Cap Space:Even without a No Movement Clause, nothing short of a trade (or maybe death?) could remove Thomas' cap hit. It's a 35+ contract.
Posted by DrCC
No, that is one of the bizarre things about the cap. If a player dies, his salary still counts against the cap. -
Re: Cap Space
posted at 7/14/2010 9:29 AM EDT
- Raskman
- Posts: 0
- First: 7/2/2008
- Last: 5/24/2013
In Response to Re: Cap Space:In Response to Re: Cap Space : No, that is one of the bizarre things about the cap. If a player dies, his salary still counts against the cap.
Posted by BadHabitude
If he dies, wouldn't that count as an injury....
....LOL. -
Re: Cap Space
posted at 7/14/2010 9:29 AM EDT
- DrCC
- Posts: 2661
- First: 10/21/2008
- Last: 5/23/2013
In Response to Re: Cap Space:In Response to Re: Cap Space : No, that is one of the bizarre things about the cap. If a player dies, his salary still counts against the cap.
Posted by BadHabitude
When I go an look things up in the CBA, I always keep my eyes out for the implications of death, but I've never had any luck. I suppose this is to keep teams from taking out contracts on the lives of players they no longer want? -
Re: Cap Space
posted at 7/14/2010 9:47 AM EDT
- duinne
- Posts: 2738
- First: 9/3/2006
- Last: 1/27/2012
In Response to Re: Cap Space:Trading Savard may be the only answer. Thomas isn't going anywhere. His contract won't allow it. Ryder could be demoted to Providence, but he may not be. He is one of Julien's boys. What happens if Ryder lights it up in the preseason? Not saying he will, but if he does, how do you justify sending him down when the team needs offense? Unlike some others, I don't think trading Savard is a horrible idea. First off, he lost a lot of respect by not owning up to his mistake in game 7 against the Flyers on the too-many-men-on-the-ice penalty. He waved Sobotka on to the ice but then stayed on. Instead of taking responsibility like a leader does, he blamed Sobotka. That's not a move a leader or good teammate makes. I've read in several places that this angered Neely. That could be a problem for Savard. The Bruins are deep at center and Seguin will be a stud center within a year or two. A year ago at this time, I would have been furios at the thought of trading Savard. Right now, I'm not. He didn't do much of anything for the team last year. I know he was injured, but he wasn't always effective when he was playing. I feel that the Bruins have enough depth to compensate for losing Savard. Keeping Savard this year wouldn't be a bad thing, but in the long run, I think it is better if he gets traded.
Posted by lordy4
I know this is the Internet and rumors, half-truths and innuendo are practically required, but the baloney flying around about Marc Savard has reached ridiculous proportions. WHERE, exactly, did you "read in several places that this angered Neely"? Other than speculation on OTHER message boards?
You don't trade a player who has a stupendous body of work for one mistake, nor for heated words spoken out of frustration (if there WERE any heated words. None of us have access to that locker room, and none of us have any clue whatsoever as to what was or wasn't said. The only comments I saw published afterward were relatively mild. Savard didn't exactly fall on his sword, but neither did he point furiously accusatory fingers.)
Usually the Bruins try to ignore the crap that flies around, but Neely did actually address this specific rumor, saying "That's not why you trade players."
http://www.nesn.com/2010/06/cam-neely-downplays-any-disagreement-with-marc-savard.html
If every player who ever made a mistake on the ice, or expressed frustration, was traded, you wouldn't have a league. -
Re: Cap Space
posted at 7/14/2010 9:50 AM EDT
- islamorada
- Posts: 3780
- First: 1/13/2006
- Last: 5/24/2013
In Response to Re: Cap Space:This Salary Cap Panic doesn't make any sense to me. Correct me if I'm wrong I know the Bruins are tight against the Cap ($1.76Mil left) They have to sign about $4.5Mil Wheeler ($2M) Campbell($1M) Seguin($.9Mil with Deferred Bonus) #7Depth D-Man ($.6M) The Bruins will also have 3.5 Mil Cap relief while Sturm is out (Nov?) This would give the Bruins $5.25 to sign these players. Anything can happen between now and November. Why should the bruins Rush to dump Savard, Thomas, or Ryder? If the Bruins find themselves healthy in November facing a CAP Crunch and are unable to unload a bad contract (i.e. Ryder, Thomas) they could demote Ryder as a last resort. The worst case situation would be that Ryder was playing really well when/if Sturm get back and you would have to find someone else to dump (Ference?) I would take this over trading Savard.
Posted by Clyde-FitchTotally agree! Although I have read something similar before, this is the exact summary Chiarelli was thinking when he said "stand pat". Long term injuries have haunted this team the past few years as well. Wouldn't wish that on the Bs but it may be a variable in planning considering. -
Re: Cap Space
posted at 7/14/2010 9:57 AM EDT
- islamorada
- Posts: 3780
- First: 1/13/2006
- Last: 5/24/2013
In Response to Re: Cap Space:In Response to Re: Cap Space : I know this is the Internet and rumors, half-truths and innuendo are practically required, but the baloney flying around about Marc Savard has reached ridiculous proportions. WHERE, exactly, did you "read in several places that this angered Neely"? Other than speculation on OTHER message boards? You don't trade a player who has a stupendous body of work for one mistake, nor for heated words spoken out of frustration (if there WERE any heated words. None of us have access to that locker room, and none of us have any clue whatsoever as to what was or wasn't said. The only comments I saw published afterward were relatively mild. Savard didn't exactly fall on his sword, but neither did he point furiously accusatory fingers.) Usually the Bruins try to ignore the crap that flies around, but Neely did actually address this specific rumor, saying "That's not why you trade players." http://www.nesn.com/2010/06/cam-neely-downplays-any-disagreement-with-marc-savard.html If every player who ever made a mistake on the ice, or expressed frustration, was traded, you wouldn't have a league.
Posted by duinneIn a larger sense, the human population would be doomed. I will say Savard is a nuisance at times on the ice, so undoubtedly he would be in the locker room. If he has 70 assists during the next season then the annoying qualities will somehow vanish in the minds of all. -
Re: Cap Space
posted at 7/14/2010 10:27 AM EDT
- Bookboy007
- Posts: 6331
- First: 7/8/2009
- Last: 5/23/2013
In Response to Re: Cap Space:In Response to Re: Cap Space : When I go an look things up in the CBA, I always keep my eyes out for the implications of death, but I've never had any luck. I suppose this is to keep teams from taking out contracts on the lives of players they no longer want?
Posted by DrCC
I'm going to guess it's more to keep overzealous fans from taking out contracts on the lives of players they perceive as Cap anchors. Imagine if someone in Bruins management said "Basically, with Tim Thomas's contract on the books, we just can't find the room to sign Blake Wheeler. It's unfortunate, but if we can't find a way to get Tim off the books, we'll have to let Blake go." Stanley would attack Thomas like something out of Predators. Pop his head right off with his bare hands. -
Re: Cap Space
posted at 7/14/2010 10:33 AM EDT
- Bookboy007
- Posts: 6331
- First: 7/8/2009
- Last: 5/23/2013
Re: Sturm's cap hit - I don't think it works the way you're hoping, Clyde. Sturm's contract remains on the books for planning purposes even though he's on LTIR, but the Bruins are credited against his contract while he's out. So they can't start the season with an extra $3.5M. I'm not completely certain of the particulars on this, but I also think the amount you're credited is the amount insurance pays out on the player's salary. After deductible, and given that it's a percentage of the total salary, and I believe these policies also kick in after two weeks or so, the Bruins probably get 60% of the salary dollars Sturm would be paid during his injury credited. If he misses the whole season, then, it's probably about $2M - $2.5M. -
Re: Cap Space
posted at 7/14/2010 10:35 AM EDT
- Bostonfan4ever2010
- Posts: 0
- First: 7/8/2009
- Last: 5/23/2013
In Response to Re: Cap Space:In Response to Re: Cap Space : I'm going to guess it's more to keep overzealous fans from taking out contracts on the lives of players they perceive as Cap anchors. Imagine if someone in Bruins management said "Basically, with Tim Thomas's contract on the books, we just can't find the room to sign Blake Wheeler. It's unfortunate, but if we can't find a way to get Tim off the books, we'll have to let Blake go." Stanley would attack Thomas like something out of Predators . Pop his head right off with his bare hands.
Posted by Bookboy007
You may be right BB but unfortunately for Stanley his passionate attempt to save Wheeler would go sadly awry as a dead player is still counted against the cap.... -
Re: Cap Space
posted at 7/14/2010 10:39 AM EDT
- Bostonfan4ever2010
- Posts: 0
- First: 7/8/2009
- Last: 5/23/2013
In Response to Re: Cap Space:Re: Sturm's cap hit - I don't think it works the way you're hoping, Clyde. Sturm's contract remains on the books for planning purposes even though he's on LTIR, but the Bruins are credited against his contract while he's out. So they can't start the season with an extra $3.5M. I'm not completely certain of the particulars on this, but I also think the amount you're credited is the amount insurance pays out on the player's salary. After deductible, and given that it's a percentage of the total salary, and I believe these policies also kick in after two weeks or so, the Bruins probably get 60% of the salary dollars Sturm would be paid during his injury credited. If he misses the whole season, then, it's probably about $2M - $2.5M.
Posted by Bookboy007
Pretty sure it is dollar for dollar.
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=533088
for those who prefer to read rather than link: -
Re: Cap Space
posted at 7/14/2010 3:33 PM EDT
- Blackmale
- Posts: 41
- First: 7/14/2010
- Last: 11/3/2010
In Response to Re: Cap Space:Ryder will get sent to Providence before Thomas, thereby creating the $4M in cap space you've requested. Thomas is not getting waived.
Posted by Not-A-Shot
Thanks, man. I wasn't sure if it was an option they were considering (or if it was even possible). -
Re: Cap Space
posted at 7/14/2010 3:35 PM EDT
- rolerhoky19
- Posts: 2833
- First: 8/19/2009
- Last: 9/22/2011
I still don't understand why its ryder, and not sturm being sent to providence, ryder in the least will be healthy, if he bounces back from last year, I think you move sturm down.. I like the guy but him and ryder have similar production, I will take a chance on the guy who has been more productive in the past 2 seasons.. -
Re: Cap Space
posted at 7/14/2010 3:46 PM EDT
- Not-A-Shot
- Posts: 14245
- First: 12/30/2009
- Last: 5/24/2013
In Response to Re: Cap Space:I still don't understand why its ryder, and not sturm being sent to providence, ryder in the least will be healthy, if he bounces back from last year, I think you move sturm down.. I like the guy but him and ryder have similar production, I will take a chance on the guy who has been more productive in the past 2 seasons..
Posted by rolerhoky19
Marco can play on the PK. -
Re: Cap Space
posted at 7/14/2010 3:49 PM EDT
- bogie6
- Posts: 3066
- First: 11/23/2009
- Last: 5/24/2013
First and foremost, the Bruins are a business and a business does not pay out $4mil just to create cap space. Chiarelli is still stinging from the Lewis fiasco, both operationally and also fiancially, so forget Ryder to Providence. Ryder will play out the year in Boston unless he is traded. As far as Sturm's cap effect, I thought I read that the B's get relief for Sturm's $3.5 while he is on IR, but, must adjust if and when Sturm returns. Interesting rumor from not so accurate EK.