Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from RMiller87. Show RMiller87's posts

    Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.

    Unfortunately, there is this thing called objectivity that most of you, homers, don`t seem to be able to address...

    -Savard managed only 33 pts last season before a severe head injury.

    -The Bruins have no natural goal scoring wingers that are going to light it up in the manner that Kovalchuk did when Savard and he were linemates back in Atlanta.

    -Savard is clearly past his prime, and in his most recent stint (post-concussion) was managing 0.47 PPG.

    Savard will likely never top 70 points in a season for the remainder of his career -- Book it !

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.:
    In Response to Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization. : Sedin is a Hart trophy winner... He is only 29 years old and coming into his prime now... Savard is 33 years old and past his prime... The two players are in no way comparable...
    Posted by RMiller87

    Let me break this down into bite-sized sentences.
    Savard, at 29, had stats and progression similar to what Sedin has now.
    If Sedin has 4 very good point seasons in a row, when he is 33 he will have a slightly better career in terms of point production than Savard has had right now.  So how many points did Sedin score when he was 31?  Oh that's right - you can only speculate that he will continue to succeed.  It seems much more likely than not, but he has yet to put up four point-per-game seasons in a row to prove himself the way Savard did.
    The entire point of bringing up Sedin is to point out that Savard's career per-game point production is less meaningful than his per-game point production over the past 5 years.  Why?  Because some players - like Sedin - like Savard - have a bunch of earlier years where they were not very productive.

    Here, let me help you.  This is a summary of your argument:
    Savard is 33 which makes him a bit long-in-the-tooth.  His game is likely to decline.  You think it will be to the point that not only does he fail to live up to his post-lockout point-per-game production, but that he will drop all the way below 70 points.  That is speculation based on your own instincts and gut feeling.  That's fine that you feel that way.  You have not cited any stats that actually support it though - what you would need is (for instance) Savard or a Savard-like player being consistent for 3-4 years before an injury, then taking years to recover.  What you would need is a report that Savard is still hearing a bell.  Instead, what you have is belief.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Newfiebullet. Show Newfiebullet's posts

    Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.:
    What`s sad is that none of you can logically debate this. Your bringing up Yzerman, Sakic and Henrik Sedin only make me laugh more... Savard is definitely not in the class of any of those players... In fact, Savard has never won anything is his life... The fact of the matter is also that if PC hadn`t signed him prematurely as a UFA last season (like he also did with a oft injured Bruins`defensemen,) the Bruins wouldn`t be stuck with a 7 year, $28 Million dollae on an over the hill player that few other NHL GMs are interested in acquiring... 
    Posted by RMiller87


    You sir are correct. To even have Savard in the same sentence as those guys is ridiculous. Savard can't provide his own offence. How did he do last year? He couldn't play with Ryder, Wheeler, Satan or Lucic. That is not the sign of a great player.

    David Krejci made all of those guys look better then Marc Savard did. David Krejci & Patrice Bergeron are the Bruins best 2 forwards. I have a feeling Mr. Julien feels the same way.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.

    Oft injured means an athlete has years and years of injury plagued seasons which Savard does not have!
                                    gm
    2005-2006  Thrashers  82   
    2006-2007  Bruins       82   
    2007-2008  Bruins       74   
    2008-2009  Bruins       82   
    2009-2010  Bruins       41 

    You obviously don't understand what "oft injured" means!

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from RMiller87. Show RMiller87's posts

    Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.

    No, oft injured means that Savard missed 41 games last season secondary to two separate injuries (a MCL tear and a concussion.)

    Is he going to get healthier the further away that he gets from his prime years which are the years 25-29 (late bloomers up till 31 years) for NHL forwards ?

    No one in their right mind would likely argue that a 33 year old is still in their prime years nor would anyone in their right mind compare Savard to Yzerman or Sakic.

    Do you think that if PC had waited until after the season was over to resign guys like Ference and Savard as UFAs (like most intelligent GMs do) that Savard would be signing a 7 year, $28 Million contract with the Bruins today ?

    Because I certainly don't.

    Now, who will be made to pay for Chiarelli's continual mishandling of the salary cap ?

    Because someone will have to pay.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.

    Great white buffalo

    Great white buffalo

    Great white buffalo

    Great white buffalo...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from RMiller87. Show RMiller87's posts

    Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.

    Bookboy007 :

    As opposed to the Newfie Bullet's intelligent input on this thread, it is quite apparent that you have nothing intelligent to add to this conversation...

    So, you just seem to keep repeating the same nonsense over and over.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.:
    Bookboy007 : As opposed to the Newfie Bullet's intelligent input on this thread, it is quite apparent that you have nothing intelligent to add to this conversation... So, you just seem to keep repeating the same nonsense over and over.
    Posted by RMiller87


    Frustrating, isn't it?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from RMiller87. Show RMiller87's posts

    Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.

    No, it doesn't bother me that much, it just makes you look a bit dumb.

    Of course, selecting the image of a muppet holding a Heineken bottle suggests that as well.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.:
    No, oft injured means that Savard missed 41 games last season secondary to two separate injuries (a MCL tear and a concussion.) Posted by RMiller87


    No wrong that is not what oft injured means you're wrong!

    Oft injured means an athlete has years and years of injury plagued seasons which Savard does not have!
                                    gm
    2005-2006  Thrashers  82   
    2006-2007  Bruins       82   
    2007-2008  Bruins       74   
    2008-2009  Bruins       82   
    2009-2010  Bruins       41 

    You obviously don't understand what "oft injured" means!

    Fail RMiller Fai!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.:
    No, it doesn't bother me that much, it just makes you look a bit dumb. Of course, selecting the image of a muppet holding a Heineken bottle suggests that as well.
    Posted by RMiller87


    Well, you must be immune to irony.  No surprise there.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from huscroft28. Show huscroft28's posts

    Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.

    Is it known that Savard had an MCL tear ?  I have a torn ACL which requires surgery - did Savard have surgery?  Am I forgetting or missing something?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.

    Savard did not require surgery for the MCL tear, just time off.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.:
    Is it known that Savard had an MCL tear ?  I have a torn ACL which requires surgery - did Savard have surgery?  Am I forgetting or missing something? Posted by huscroft28


    Savard had a partial tear which did not require surgery. Which proves another point a player like Savard can't be selfish if he hurried back from a knee injury or a head injury in the same season.

    Thanks for bringing that up which also proves Marc is not oft injured nor selfish. Savard overcame both in one season.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from huscroft28. Show huscroft28's posts

    Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.:
    In Response to Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization. : Savard had a partial tear which did not require surgery. Which proves another point a player like Savard can't be selfish if he hurried back from a knee injury or a head injury in the same season. Thanks for bringing that up which also proves Marc is not oft injured nor selfish. Savard overcame both in one season.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin


    Partial tear is what I thought.  I also thought that Savard was pretty game coming back so quickly from the Cooke hit - and he was clearly not himself during the Philly series.  With Horton and Lucic or Wheeler, I'm looking for big things this year from #91.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.:
    No, oft injured means that Savard missed 41 games last season secondary to two separate injuries (a MCL tear and a concussion.) Is he going to get healthier the further away that he gets from his prime years which are the years 25-29 (late bloomers up till 31 years) for NHL forwards ? No one in their right mind would likely argue that a 33 year old is still in their prime years nor would anyone in their right mind compare Savard to Yzerman or Sakic. Do you think that if PC had waited until after the season was over to resign guys like Ference and Savard as UFAs (like most intelligent GMs do) that Savard would be signing a 7 year, $28 Million contract with the Bruins today ? Because I certainly don't. Now, who will be made to pay for Chiarelli's continual mishandling of the salary cap ? Because someone will have to pay.
    Posted by RMiller87



    Been reading this thread with quite a few chuckles.  Pretty polarized subject, but that polarity seems to be more about the logic of the debate, as opposed to the spirit.
    I don't think most people, or the team brass expect significant improvement from Savard moving forward.  It's not illogical however, to suggest, he may well be a 70something point producer for the next 3 years, maybe even as much as 4.  Time will tell, and everyones entitled to an opinion.  Up to this point, whether Savard is injury prone....is not an opinion.  It's just false.  If he misses 30 games for each of the next 3 seasons....different story, but it's illogical to label him injury prone at this time.
    Unfortunately, most people use statistics in whichever way supports their opinion.  You, and your opponents, both seem to be digging pretty deep in this area.
    Reading between the lines, it appears your biggest issue is Savards long term contract at 4 mil per, even though your statistical arguments don't suggest that.
    If that's correct, I share your concern, but I also understand why PC did what he did.
    Ideally, a team wants a players salary to be in the neighborhood of what the rest of the league would consider a bargain....which equates to endless options for the team.  Reality doesn't work that way though.  Things just change way too quick, so teams and players work the system as best they can.
    Looking back, sure PC could have probably made a better deal, post July 1, than he did, but only because of what transpired "after" Savard was signed.  That fact really, really, needs to be understood.  One has to ask, would any other GM have given Savard that contract....at the time it was signed?
    My opinion is that there would have been upwards of a dozen GM's waving a cheque in front of Savard's agent.
    There's also the issue of giving up valuable assets(via trade), or merely upgrading a team via free agency(if the cap fits).  What a player is worth as a free agent, is a totally different scenario, than what he's worth in a trade.  2 different dynamics altogether.
    Obviously the NHL thought it was a pretty good deal, otherwise, there'd have been no talk whatsoever about it circumventing the spirit of what the league was attempting to enforce fiscally.  
    I find it difficult to blame PC for this signing, as I do Lucic's.  At the time they were proactive and reasonable.(IMO Savard's more than Lucic's).  Right now, they maybe don't look so good, and that's the tight rope GM's walk daily.  They could appear brilliant in December.
    Although never one of my favorites, skewering the B's for extending Savard, is the equivalent of lambasting their forsight in drafting Normand Levielle.
    As long as Savard plays here, I hope he does well. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from RMiller87. Show RMiller87's posts

    Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.:
    In Response to Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization. : You sir are correct. To even have Savard in the same sentence as those guys is ridiculous. Savard can't provide his own offence. How did he do last year? He couldn't play with Ryder, Wheeler, Satan or Lucic. That is not the sign of a great player. David Krejci made all of those guys look better then Marc Savard did. David Krejci & Patrice Bergeron are the Bruins best 2 forwards. I have a feeling Mr. Julien feels the same way.
    Posted by Newfiebullet


    Great players also aren't given away by the Rangers and Flames.
     
    Does Savard make those around him better players or does he require scoring wingers around him (ie. Kovalchuk) to look better himself ?

    I say it's the latter.

    If the former, I sure haven't seen any evidence of that yet.

    It only gets worse as he gets further from his prime years.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from RMiller87. Show RMiller87's posts

    Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.:
    In Response to Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization. : Savard had a partial tear which did not require surgery. Which proves another point a player like Savard can't be selfish if he hurried back from a knee injury or a head injury in the same season. Thanks for bringing that up which also proves Marc is not oft injured nor selfish. Savard overcame both in one season.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin


    Yeah !

    He came back early from the knee injury to get the head injury.

    He came back early from the head injury to cost the Bruins with the too many men on the ice penaty in the Flyers series.

    How unselfish !

    Perhaps, you should sign him for ten years at $40 Million, Chiarelli !

    Mooooooooorrrrrrrroooooonnnnn !
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.

    It is a shame Chiarelli failed to consult some entrails before offering that contract.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from RMiller87. Show RMiller87's posts

    Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.

    So far, no one has answered the question...

    If Chiarelli didn't prematurely sign his UFAs like Svard and Ference instead of waiting until the season was over (like the intelligent NHL GMs do), would the Bruins be offering Savard a 7 year, $28 Million contract TODAY ?

    I say that there's no way that Savard gets that contract today.

    Best be sure that someone's paying the pied piper for Chiarelli's inept cap management again.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from RMiller87. Show RMiller87's posts

    Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.:
    It is a shame Chiarelli failed to consult some entrails before offering that contract.
    Posted by DrCC


    Yes, it was a shame.

    Resigning Savard for more years will likely be the smartest decision since the USA re-elected Bush for four more years.

    The fun part will be revisiting these threads for the next 7 years to remind you, folks, how dumb this decision was.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.:
    In Response to Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization. : Great players also aren't given away by the Rangers and Flames.   Does Savard make those around him better players or does he require scoring wingers around him (ie. Kovalchuk) to look better himself ? I say it's the latter. If the former, I sure haven't seen any evidence of that yet. It only gets worse as he gets further from his prime years.
    Posted by RMiller87


    Someone take away his shovel!

    Calgary:
    Brett Hull
    Doug Gilmour
    Joe Mullen
    Gary Roberts
    Mike Vernon
    Al MacInnis

    NYR:
    Doug Weight
    Marek Zidlicky
    Alexei Kovalev
    Sergei Zubov
    Tony Amonte
    Dave Gagner

    That's just the short list.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.:
    So far, no one has answered the question... If Chiarelli didn't prematurely sign his UFAs like Svard and Ference instead of waiting until the season was over (like the intelligent NHL GMs do), would the Bruins be offering Savard a 7 year, $28 Million contract TODAY ? I say that there's no way that Savard gets that contract today. Best be sure that someone's paying the pied piper for Chiarelli's inept cap management again.
    Posted by RMiller87


    If you read my post above, you'll see I attempted to do that.  You'll also see that your above question is almost impossible to answer logically.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.:
    So far, no one has answered the question... If Chiarelli didn't prematurely sign his UFAs like Svard and Ference instead of waiting until the season was over (like the intelligent NHL GMs do), would the Bruins be offering Savard a 7 year, $28 Million contract TODAY ? I say that there's no way that Savard gets that contract today. Best be sure that someone's paying the pied piper for Chiarelli's inept cap management again.
    Posted by RMiller87

    Probably not.  But you are trying to argue that the decision was wrong at the time based on information that didn't exist then.  What would have happened if Savard and Toews never collided, Savard clicked with Sturm, and he finished the season with 80 points?  He would have wanted a better contract right?  But that's how these things go - you have to make decisions based on the information available, not what random things may or may not happen in the future.
    You do know time flows linearly, right?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Chiarelli tells Savard hes not trading him and hes part of this organization.

    Would someone sign Savard for $4M/yr over 7 today?  Yeah, probably.

    The Devils signed Jason Arnott for $4.5M - sure, for one year, but still.  He's not going to be in their top five scorers.

    The Loaves signed Armstrong for $3M. He's never topped 40 points.

    Matt Lombardi got 3 years at $3.5 from Nashville - Topped out at 53 points last year.

    Matt Cullen got the same deal as Lombardi.

    Clearly $4M cap hit doesn't buy you even an injured first line centre even in a depressed market.  Now look at the available FAs and tell me who the brilliant GMs are who let their guys go to market - their top line guys, not their moveable parts.  There's nobody still out there with anything like Savard's numbers, and the only guy signed on July 1 by his own team was Marty St. Louis.  Everyone else either walked or was signed before becoming UFA.  Even if you want to argue that really the point is to wait until after the very last game - that's a dangerous game.  You get a guy close enough to seeing what his market value is and you've shown no inclination to sign him, chances are he becomes more expensive, not less, even if you can keep him.  So - who are the brilliant GMs who aren't being proactive with signings?

    Oh, wait, sorry.  I forgot....

    Great white buffalo

    Great white buffalo

    Great white buffalo

     
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