Chiarelli's best move as GM

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BruinsFanInPenTerritory. Show BruinsFanInPenTerritory's posts

    Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM

    Someone explained the Kessel deal to me before and it made sense then. As I understand it, Chiarelli could have dealt Phildo's rights to another team for a package of players and picks (Nashville was rumored to have an interest). I think Chiarelli did the best he could given the awkward circumstances, though I agree that Toronto's tank job was one of the best things that have occurred under Chiarelli's watch.

    TheRat does have a good point about getting these kids onto the roster. Hey, maybe Hammil does work out and he too can be moved to wing.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from derrickmorin. Show derrickmorin's posts

    Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM

    I thought the Kessel trade was great right from the start.  Whether those first rounders ended up being in the 8-14 range, higher, or lower, didn't matter to me.  How often do two 1st rounders (and a 2nd) get traded for any player? Let alone a player who has no desire to stay with his current team and has only played 3 NHL seasons.  To look at it closer, Toronto could have had Kessel and 25th overall, for Kaberle and 7th overall.  Even before the season started I thought the deal PC got in the end was better.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM:
    I thought the Kessel trade was great right from the start.  Whether those first rounders ended up being in the 8-14 range, higher, or lower, didn't matter to me.  How often do two 1st rounders (and a 2nd) get traded for any player? Let alone a player who has no desire to stay with his current team and has only played 3 NHL seasons.  To look at it closer, Toronto could have had Kessel and 25th overall, for Kaberle and 7th overall.  Even before the season started I thought the deal PC got in the end was better.
    Posted by derrickmorin


    The B's got three first round picks for...wait for it...wait for it...Glen Wesley!

    Stupid Hartford.  No wonder they left town.

    Wait a second.  Glen Wesley won the Cup with that franchise.  The three first round picks (McLaren, Aitken, Samsonov) did not. Neither did the B's.

    Guess I shouldn't be laughing too hard.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from derrickmorin. Show derrickmorin's posts

    Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM:
    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM : The B's got three first round picks for...wait for it...wait for it...Glen Wesley! Stupid Hartford.  No wonder they left town. Wait a second.  Glen Wesley won the Cup with that franchise.  The three first round picks (McLaren, Aitken, Samsonov) did not. Neither did the B's. Guess I shouldn't be laughing too hard.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    I didn't realize Glen Wesley was a centerpiece to that Cup win? I suppose they did win the cup very shortly after making that move...it only took 10 years.  Did they win the cup because of that move? Did Boston not win the cup because of that move? Did one of those picks win the Calder trophy? I'd say that move worked out just fine for the B's. 

    Also, was that a trade? Or an offer sheet? I can't remember.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM:
    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM : I didn't realize Glen Wesley was a centerpiece to that Cup win? I suppose they did win the cup very shortly after making that move...it only took 10 years.  Did they win the cup because of that move? Did Boston not win the cup because of that move? Did one of those picks win the Calder trophy? I'd say that move worked out just fine for the B's.  Also, was that a trade? Or an offer sheet? I can't remember.
    Posted by derrickmorin


    I believe every move a team makes has a direct effect on the future of the team.  The ultimate goal is to win the Cup.  I believe the deal's effect doesn't come to an end until the last remaining piece of that deal is removed.

    In that theory, making that trade for Wesley certainly did help them win the Cup.  It's not over for Boston yet, however.  In fact, the Pederson to Vancouver trade still has it's effects on the current team with Wideman and Lucic still on the roster.  If the team wins the Cup with Wideman or Lucic (or whomever they might get due to trade), I will say it was successful.

    How is this for a different way of thinking:  The Richard Brodeur to LA trade was a bust because Bourque and all of the pieces acquired for Bourque failed to win a Cup.


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM:
    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM : I didn't realize Glen Wesley was a centerpiece to that Cup win? I suppose they did win the cup very shortly after making that move...it only took 10 years.  Did they win the cup because of that move? Did Boston not win the cup because of that move? Did one of those picks win the Calder trophy? I'd say that move worked out just fine for the B's.  Also, was that a trade? Or an offer sheet? I can't remember.
    Posted by derrickmorin


    He was traded. 

    Who cares about the Calder Trophy?  Raycroft won it also. 

    I have no idea why the B's haven't won the Cup.

    Was Wesley instrumental in Carolina winning the Cup?  Yes, he certainly was.  He was paired with Ward as their top PK unit and pulled 3/4 duty during even strength.

    Jesus, did I hit a nerve?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM

    Derrick I think the nerve was hit when you mentioned Brian Burke getting taken by PC with the Kessel deal. Have seen this rant before about one's idol BB getting fleeced. He's very sensitive to this topic. Wait till he uses the word 'unknown' on what the B's got back in value.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from derrickmorin. Show derrickmorin's posts

    Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM:
    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM : He was traded.  Who cares about the Calder Trophy?  Raycroft won it also.  I have no idea why the B's haven't won the Cup. Was Wesley instrumental in Carolina winning the Cup?  Yes, he certainly was.  He was paired with Ward as their top PK unit and pulled 3/4 duty during even strength. Jesus, did I hit a nerve?
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    I wouldn't say you hit a nerve, but you are really annoying me by bringing up things from 15-20 years ago rather than looking at recent history (post lock out) as relevant comparables in terms of team building and trades.

    It's finally clear to me that the reason we haven't won the cup is because we're missing that elusive Veteran #4 Dman everyone strives to find.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from saultont. Show saultont's posts

    Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM

    I feel getting Seidenburg signed after all the negative criticism of Morris vs Seidenburg talk and the fact he was becoming an UFA was a bonifide move on Chiarellis part...now if he can get Boychuck and Stuart on board that will be quite a feat....but the crown jewel will prove to be the draft picks for Kessel...call it luck or good management its going to be reality!!! A grand slam with Burke pitching the ball...and Chiarelli swinging the bat!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM:
    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM : I wouldn't say you hit a nerve, but you are really annoying me by bringing up things from 15-20 years ago rather than looking at recent history (post lock out) as relevant comparables in terms of team building and trades. It's finally clear to me that the reason we haven't won the cup is because we're missing that elusive Veteran #4 Dman everyone strives to find.
    Posted by derrickmorin


    I don't think five years is nearly long enough in the NHL to make any sort of determination with any certainty.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from derrickmorin. Show derrickmorin's posts

    Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM:
    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM : I don't think five years is nearly long enough in the NHL to make any sort of determination with any certainty.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    Why? You would think to look at a signing or a trade or a draft pick for that matter and try to decide whether it's a good move or not is to look at the trends of contract length, dollars, cap considerations, etc. to make a determination. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM:
    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM : The B's got three first round picks for...wait for it...wait for it...Glen Wesley! Stupid Hartford.  No wonder they left town. Wait a second.  Glen Wesley won the Cup with that franchise.  The three first round picks (McLaren, Aitken, Samsonov) did not. Neither did the B's. Guess I shouldn't be laughing too hard.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot

    Ha ha ha... yes Glen Wesley was part of the Cam Neely trade so even though no cup well we still have Lucic to serve as the lasting memory.  My Chiarelli best move was to dump Dave Lewis, ahhh oh damn who hired him?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM:
    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM : Ha ha ha... yes Glen Wesley was part of the Cam Neely trade so even though no cup well we still have Lucic to serve as the lasting memory.  My Chiarelli best move was to dump Dave Lewis, ahhh oh damn who hired him?
    Posted by islamorada


    Wideman is from the Neely deal also.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM:
    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM : Wideman is from the Neely deal also.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    Wait... what's the provenance of Wideman?
    Back to Boyes, who was Maple Leafs property and then Sharks came to Boston for ...  ???  How do we get to Neely?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM:
    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM : Wait... what's the provenance of Wideman? Back to Boyes, who was Maple Leafs property and then Sharks came to Boston for ...  ???  How do we get to Neely?
    Posted by BadHabitude


    B's got Boyes for Jillson, whom they got in the McLaren trade, who was the first of the three picks from Hartford, which they got for Wesley, who was the pick that came over with Neely.

    About 25 years later, Wideman and Lucic are what's left of poor ol' Barry Pederson.

    Pretty amazing.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from derrickmorin. Show derrickmorin's posts

    Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM

    NAS you never responded to my post. Does that mean you agree? I guess so.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM:
    NAS you never responded to my post. Does that mean you agree? I guess so.
    Posted by derrickmorin


    I didn't even understand what you were talking about, so instead of spending half the night going back and forth on it, I figured I'd just move on.

    However you choose to interpret that is entirely up to you.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from derrickmorin. Show derrickmorin's posts

    Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM:
    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM : I didn't even understand what you were talking about, so instead of spending half the night going back and forth on it, I figured I'd just move on. However you choose to interpret that is entirely up to you.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    Ok I'll dumb it down for you and then will also move on..a trade taking place in 2009 is much different than a similar trade taking place in 1994.  Using the Kessel trade and the Wesley trade. 

    Wesley for 3 - 1sts...Kessel for 2 -1sts, 2nd

    Draft picks, especially high ones, are much more important in today's NHL than the NHL several years ago because of the salary cap.  In order to be successful in the new NHL you need to have several entry level players on your roster.  The best way to do that is to have as many 1st and 2nd rounders as possible. 

    Make sense?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM

    Kobasew and Ference for Primeau and Brad Stuart wasn't to shabby. Not a world shaker but it sticks out to me for a couple of reasons because Stuart turned down a long term deal by Chiarelli and now Mark has basically signed 1 year deals for the last few years.

    Kobasew had 40 goals in 2 years. Ference oft injured but serviceable. So the Bs have Sturm, Ference and the Wild's 2011 2nd round pick (Kobasew trade) left from the MOC Thornton trade.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM:
    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM : Ok I'll dumb it down for you and then will also move on..a trade taking place in 2009 is much different than a similar trade taking place in 1994.  Using the Kessel trade and the Wesley trade.  Wesley for 3 - 1sts...Kessel for 2 -1sts, 2nd Draft picks, especially high ones, are much more important in today's NHL than the NHL several years ago because of the salary cap.  In order to be successful in the new NHL you need to have several entry level players on your roster.  The best way to do that is to have as many 1st and 2nd rounders as possible.  Make sense?
    Posted by derrickmorin


     I disagree.  Quality drafting is important regardless of the time frame.  To say that teams need several entry level players to be successful is untrue.  Quality drafting, proper cap management and good coaching makes a team successful.


     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from derrickmorin. Show derrickmorin's posts

    Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM:
    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM :  I disagree.  Quality drafting is important regardless of the time frame.  To say that teams need several entry level players to be successful is untrue.  Quality drafting, proper cap management and good coaching makes a team successful.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    Obviously quality drafting is important all the time yes, and it is definitely more important NOW to have those high picks than it was 15 years ago.  15 years ago if those draft picks are busts you can throw any amount of money at any player without having to worry about 'cap management' which you say (and I said in that very complicated post you couldn't understand) is very important for success. 

    The fact is the value of 1st and 2nd round picks is way higher than now then 6 or more years ago.  Your a stats man, look how many 1st rounders get moved nowadays compared to pre-lockout. 

    It's pretty obvious that 3-1sts in Wesley's day is much less value than 2-1sts and a 2nd today.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM

    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM:
    In Response to Re: Chiarelli's best move as GM : Obviously quality drafting is important all the time yes, and it is definitely more important NOW to have those high picks than it was 15 years ago.  15 years ago if those draft picks are busts you can throw any amount of money at any player without having to worry about 'cap management' which you say (and I said in that very complicated post you couldn't understand) is very important for success.  The fact is the value of 1st and 2nd round picks is way higher than now then 6 or more years ago.  Your a stats man, look how many 1st rounders get moved nowadays compared to pre-lockout.  It's pretty obvious that 3-1sts in Wesley's day is much less value than 2-1sts and a 2nd today.
    Posted by derrickmorin


    Very interesting approach.  I am so embarrassed that you have made me look so dumb.

    As I said earlier, there isn't enough data to support the claim.  Do keep in mind that money is money, no matter what the cap number is.




     

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