Gave up way too much

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Gave up way too much

    In Response to Re: Gave up way too much:
    In Response to Gave up way too much : Shouldn't we wait and see what HORTON  does as a BRUIN, and what else the gm has up his sleeve before saying that too much was given up?  Playing for florida could send any young player into a "funk".Posted by watchtower


    Pretty much says it all and this years #15 might end up like a #16 pick Colborne. The Bruins might not find out how well it went until both players make it to the show.


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from No4BobbyOrr-GOAT. Show No4BobbyOrr-GOAT's posts

    Re: Gave up way too much

    Even's up was enough.

    #15 didn't need to be played let alone the all important 3rd rounder for Campbell.

    Colin now owes PC for saving his son from the everglades.

    Horton will have over 350G when he is 35, with any luck he will turn it into a 500G career in Boston, bring it on.

    Shame to lose Wideman, he was exasperating, but he did log big mins and his contract was not that bad compared to some D in the league for top mins, good luck Dennis.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from titletownfan. Show titletownfan's posts

    Re: Gave up way too much

    People forget how much trouble we had scoring last year.  Horton is a step in the right direction, and I see him scoring 25-30 goals paired up with Savy or Krecji. The blue line was strong last year and Wideman would only be a 3rd pair d-man on our current roster.  3.9m is alot for a guy on the 3rd defensive line.  I'm more than happy to have Hunwick on that line or a affordable FA veteran.  As for the 15th pick, we have to give something to get something.  Tallon can't give him for nothing.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BruWingFan. Show BruWingFan's posts

    Re: Gave up way too much

    Agreed.

    Particularly when Campbell hasn't done anything of note in his career. Giving up #15 was a mistake. If we picked up Florida's second rounder in 2011 I would be a bit more accepting of the deal.

    Wideman, #15 in 2010, 3rd round pick in 2011 for Horton, Campbell and FLA 2nd round pick in 2011 would be a bit easier to swallow.

     
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jpBsSoxFan. Show jpBsSoxFan's posts

    Re: Gave up way too much

    Does anybody know Horton's contract statis?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BruWingFan. Show BruWingFan's posts

    Re: Gave up way too much

    4M cap hit for the next 3 seasons, he's a UFA in 2013-14.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from yaz16. Show yaz16's posts

    Re: Gave up way too much

    The 15th pick in this years draft could be a solid pick but it won't be a great pick unless you risked your soul and drafted one of the talented russians. We could draft say Austin Watson and hope he develops as good as blake wheeler which won't do much to help out team win

    Skinner, Etam and other talented guys will be well gone before we can get them

    And you don't have to reach to try to get a younger player who may explode  someday like brock nelson or kevin hayes who will be available when we pick 32nd

    The chance you take with Horton is alot better than hoping that the 15th picks become anything special in the league. We have a ton of young guys right now that need time to develop and pc wants to concentrate on them.

    32nd and 45th pick could nab us mid first round type talent
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from JWensink. Show JWensink's posts

    Re: Gave up way too much

    He had to include the pick... otherwise who in their right mind would want Dennis Wideman for 4 million per ???

    FACE FACTS WIDEMAN SUKZ
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BruWingFan. Show BruWingFan's posts

    Re: Gave up way too much

    Who knows? Maybe The B's take a chance on Kabanov if he's there at #32.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from StanleyCuptotheBRUINS. Show StanleyCuptotheBRUINS's posts

    Re: Gave up way too much

    Whinners are back ,,,what a bunch of idiots ,,if you would only hear the comments here in Montreal about this trade ,,all saying the Bruins imorved a lot with such a power forward ...now we have 2 ....next season will be a blast with Wheeler scoring 33 and Horton scoring 38 ......keep whinning Losers

    Meanwhile

    Stanley Cup to the BRUINS in 2011-2012-2013
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Vilho. Show Vilho's posts

    Re: Gave up way too much

    Personally it's all about managing assets.  You get player A, develop him and he has a great year.  At the peak of his value you lock him up.  Then, he has a bad year, at the valley of his value you package him in a trade with an important asset (a mid round 1st level pick in a deep draft) and trade him for a talented but underachieving player who has asked for a trade (that would say to me their value is DOWN, besides the fact since HIS 30 goal season he's dropped in consecutive years to 21 goals).  To me that's the wrong trade and a steal for Tallon (who seems to be pretty good at this dealing thing).  It's not a bad trade per se, but the timing of it makes it a bad trade.  Let's assume Horton rebounds and has a good year with his fresh start, you'd HAVE to assume Wideman does the same, then it all depends on who the Panthers take with the pick.  I know Tallon has a history of terrible drafting, so they're probably not going to get a good player.  Heaven knows when he was in Chicago he created a barren wasteland of prospects. 
    I suspect in the next couple years we'll be a little red faced over this trade, although I hope I'm wrong and Horton has some big years to make it all worthwhile.  Now I'm just holding my breath on the Thomas trade and hope he makes up for this one.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from chitownBruinfan. Show chitownBruinfan's posts

    Re: Gave up way too much

    add hall and horton for next year and get rid of wideman. sign boychuk and stuart and our D is set.

    the only way this deal could have been better is if we included ryder.

    to the guy that said tallon is terrible at drafting, look at the players he picked when he was GM of the hawks.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Orrthebest. Show Orrthebest's posts

    Re: Gave up way too much

    In Response to Re: Gave up way too much:
    add hall and horton for next year and get rid of wideman. sign boychuk and stuart and our D is set. the only way this deal could have been better is if we included ryder. to the guy that said tallon is terrible at drafting, look at the players he picked when he was GM of the hawks.
    Posted by chitownBruinfan


    If our D is set who is going to pass the puck to the forwards?  That group of D-men has well below average passing skills and we will see other teams keeping the puck in the B's defensive zone for very long periods.  There has to be a trade for a PMD or this team will not be improved at all.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Vilho. Show Vilho's posts

    Re: Gave up way too much

    Yeah I said Tallon is bad at drafting...I guess sarcasm is hard to pick up in text.

    On the bright side, I guess even if/when Tallon drafts a stud at 15 it doens't mean we would have.

    I do think that we should have added more to the package to include Florida's pick.  Hard not to notice Tallon's design.  He adds Wideman, will pick a great Dman with his own pick, probably draft either a decent forward or another good dman with our pick and voila, the makings of a future Chicagoan defense.  Not a bad way to start off your tenure.  Having a great goalie like Vokoun, add possibly 3 solid dmean to a not bad 3 they already have and go from there.
    Gotta respect franchises with a plan.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from IShawnPI. Show IShawnPI's posts

    Re: Gave up way too much

    In Response to Re: Gave up way too much:
    In Response to Re: Gave up way too much : If our D is set who is going to pass the puck to the forwards?  That group of D-men has well below average passing skills and we will see other teams keeping the puck in the B's defensive zone for very long periods.  There has to be a trade for a PMD or this team will not be improved at all.
    Posted by Orrthebest


    And Wideman NEVER made a bad pass or coughed up the puck in the defensive zone...LOL
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from biggskye. Show biggskye's posts

    Re: Gave up way too much

       I have to admit I have never seem Horton or Campbell play.
    I can only go by what I read and hear, and I have never heard anything positive about Horton.
    Strange thing is, the people at work were all saying that the bruins getting Campbell, was a steal.
    Most of them said they couldn't even remember if Horton had even played in the games they saw, but campbell was the best player on the ice.
    IMO, Chiarelli should have never traded #15. It was the only consolation of that Philly series. He should of given Tallon the choice of Toronto's 2nd pick, or Boston's #1 next year. If that wasn't good enough, then walk away.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from RMiller87. Show RMiller87's posts

    Re: Gave up way too much

    No one has ever said anything positive about Horton because he has been a much bigger bust throughout his career to date than Michael Ryder, and is just as much of a cap hit...

    Most fans commenting here don't seem to recognize that Tallon just picked Chiarelli's pocket again just like he did with the Versteeg trade...

    Too bad that #15 pick could have been used to manouvre for another future Black and Gold franchise type player...

    Well, it's gone now...

    Now, Florida have the #3 and #15 pick...

    Dale Tallon will do very well in the coming draft, I bet...
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from RMiller87. Show RMiller87's posts

    Re: Gave up way too much

    Tallon drafted Toews, Kane, Seabrook, Keith, etc. as GM of the Hawks, and it looks from the number of picks that he is acquiring for the Panthers that he plans to do for the Panthers what Chiarelli could have done for the Bruins...

    B-bye, Bruins #1 pick...

    Hello, potential bust of a rehabilitation project...

    Gotta respect franchises with a plan !
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TryToBearIt. Show TryToBearIt's posts

    Re: Gave up way too much

    Bruins needed winger who can score...agreed. Is Horton the guy? Too early to tell. Giving up Wideman for him is a fair trade. The #15 pick? That worried me--not b/c we'd be guaranteed a great player at #15 but b/c Tallon has proven he's adept at ID'ing talent in the draft & he might know something PC doesn't.

    Biggest issue here is that the Bruins WILL still need to acquire a fast-moving, puck-retrieving D man or they will be stuck in their own end A LOT next year, getting hammered by aggressive forechecking teams, and this is what contributed indirectly last year to their anemic offense. From a pure defensive standpoint they got away w/it b/c of Julien's OCD-like adherence to a system...which is fine...but even if they hadn't let Wideman go they would have needed to upgrade their D w/guys who can skate fast, move the puck w/good sharp passes, and start the outlet rush the other way.

    It's no coincidence that the Hawks won the Cup with exactly that kind of talent behind the blue line.

    So while I'm going to give PC a temporary "B" (no pun intended) for this trade--I'm OK w/giving a big winger w/the potential to be a 35-goal scorer and is only 25 a chance--he can't be done yet. The Bruins need desperately to work some more trades and get a D man who can spark some offense to replace Wideman, who, when not coughing up the puck, could actually do just that.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from taylorhall10. Show taylorhall10's posts

    Re: Gave up way too much

    I love how everyone thinks its a foregone conclusion that we will sign Boychuck and Stuart as a result of this trade.  Correct me if i'm wrong, but this trade did not improve our cap situation one bit.  I believe that for us to resign both Stuart and Boychuck, something will need to be done cap wise, whether it be trading TT (and not getting a similar cap hit in return, ie. a Simon Gagne type), or somehow shedding the Ryder cap hit. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jake1977. Show Jake1977's posts

    Re: Gave up way too much

    In Response to Re: Gave up way too much:
    Im sorry, but the people trashing this deal are nutz! This is HANDS DOWN a steal for the Bruins. We got WAY over value for Wideman, for the simple fact that there is a major shortage of puck moving defensemen on the market this year. And to those who say his issues are correctable, I just disagree totally. He does have a good skill set, but his hockey IQ is average at best. Combine that with his confidence issues and you have a player that will likely never be consistent.   As far as the pick, we dont need another 1st round draft pick that just sits in providence for the next 3-4 years only to come up and be a 13th forward.  Some of you guys need to understand while draft picks are important, acquiring talent in the market is equally and sometimes more important. We have plenty of draft picks over the next few years. Everyone knew our 15th overall was likely going for a player, this shouldnt be a surprise. We already have a solid group of prospects and a sick player coming through the draft this year. This is the type of move we needed to make, and my guess is there is one or two more coming within the next 48 hours.
    Posted by IShawnPI


    +10000.....great post
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Vilho. Show Vilho's posts

    Re: Gave up way too much

    In Response to Re: Gave up way too much:
    In Response to Re: Gave up way too much : +10000.....great post
    Posted by Jake1977


    Horton has gone from 30+ goals to mid twenties to 20 over the last 3 years.  His work ethic has been publicly questioned, and he's demanded a trade.  Not great signs of character and pretty much what I read about people around here complaining about every day.  I genuinely hope a change of scenery is what he needed.  Wideman also had a very bad year and confidence issues.  Didn't particularly have any character issues and found his game in the playoffs.  Would you have demanded a trade for him after he had 50 points 2 years ago?  Probably could have dealt him straight up for Horton then.  So no, this isn't a steal for Boston.  If Horton doesnt' turn it around, it's a big time steal for Florida.  Let's hope for the likely that it's a good trade for both, but I think for overall value, Florida wins this hands down.  For immediate need, maybe we win. 

    My only other gripe here is that saying the last thing we need is another prospect in our system is inexcusable.  You can say the player we would have gotten doesn't equal a rejuvenated Horton, but don't ever say we're better off throwing in picks to pick up salaried reclamation projects over cheap upcoming talent that intelligent people will be patient with and enjoy later in a cap game.  Remember that Ryder was a 30 goal scorer coming off a down year too.  Think about it.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Gave up way too much

    In Response to Re: Gave up way too much:
    Agreed. You don't ditch a 27 year old D Man who was your leading scorer in the playoffs who needs to simply adjust his outlet passes.  What a dumb trade. Wideman's mistakes are very fixable. So many players underachieved last year, not just him.  Problem is, gifted D men with great vision, good transition offense and PP ability are very hard to find. 2 years ago he had 50 points and was a +32. You know why? Because Lucic, Wheeler, Kreicji and Savard all had much better years than this past year. Wideman tried to do too much.   Offense from the point won't happen with Stuart, Boychuk, Hunwick or any other young D Man in the system.  Heck, Wideman is better than Chara on the PP. This Horton character better turn into Cam Neely overnight to justify this. I still can't believe there is not more of an outrage over #15 for Greg Campbell. That's one fo the worst deals in recent memory.
    Posted by russgriswold


    Russ...wideman s*cked...he could not skate backwards...he was slow as a turtle...he falls down more than a drunk on bourbon st...and he gives the puck away in the defensive end in critical situations and he did not hit or play physical...he was a liability and thank god the bruins finally realized his "mistakes" could be not fixed.. bruins will be 10x better off with boychuck, stuart...
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from cowboys9. Show cowboys9's posts

    Re: Gave up way too much

    In Response to Re: Gave up way too much:
    Bruins needed winger who can score...agreed. Is Horton the guy? Too early to tell. Giving up Wideman for him is a fair trade. The #15 pick? That worried me--not b/c we'd be guaranteed a great player at #15 but b/c Tallon has proven he's adept at ID'ing talent in the draft & he might know something PC doesn't. Biggest issue here is that the Bruins WILL still need to acquire a fast-moving, puck-retrieving D man or they will be stuck in their own end A LOT next year, getting hammered by aggressive forechecking teams, and this is what contributed indirectly last year to their anemic offense. From a pure defensive standpoint they got away w/it b/c of Julien's OCD-like adherence to a system...which is fine...but even if they hadn't let Wideman go they would have needed to upgrade their D w/guys who can skate fast, move the puck w/good sharp passes, and start the outlet rush the other way. It's no coincidence that the Hawks won the Cup with exactly that kind of talent behind the blue line. So while I'm going to give PC a temporary "B" (no pun intended) for this trade--I'm OK w/giving a big winger w/the potential to be a 35-goal scorer and is only 25 a chance--he can't be done yet. The Bruins need desperately to work some more trades and get a D man who can spark some offense to replace Wideman, who, when not coughing up the puck, could actually do just that.
    Posted by TryToBearIt


    Wideman for Horton straight up is not a fair deal..come on?  Wideman's play in his own end was a growing concern.. he never did establish himself as a premier  puck mover to generate offense from the back end, made many mental lapses, panicked with the puck in his own end? on the PP he was horrible and never seemed to hit the net...I got sick and tired of seeing his body being mashed into the boards by oncoming forwards because he was too slow.. I actually feared for his life.. He was starting to be a bit injury prone as well as a result, although I do give him credit for playing thru injuries..

    Your not getting Horton for just Wideman.. and this 15th pick , which all of a sudden is this valuable pick for some reason, I dont share that opinion.. I think you can get the same type of player at #32 this year which the Bruins have.. The Draft is that deep.. and Chiarelli did say a while ago that #15 might be in play.. I trust that PC and scouting staff know what they are doing and have weighed all the pro's and con's here ..  I think Tallon and most GMS get too much credit for the draft.... I think in the past few years any GM could have drafted in Chicago what Tallon did.. They were getting luxury picks every year?  How smart do you have to be to draft Towes and Kane with top picks ?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from RMiller87. Show RMiller87's posts

    Re: Gave up way too much

    Michael Ryder's 6 NHL seasons :

    470 Games - 144 Goals - 149 Assists - 293 points

    Nathan Horton's 6 NHL seasons :

    422 Games - 142 Goals - 153 Assists - 295 points

    Anyone think that PC can get a first round pick in exchange for Ryder ?
     
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